UcovertNPD wife txtd me, "I would like to start the first steps of separation" !

[zenagain]

Hey All,

Haven't been on here in maybe 2+ years.  In short, I was laid off from a job I had a few decades, which was a good thing because I could focus on my physical and mental health for many months with a therapist, exercise, built friendships outside the home, etc.  I also had just lost a parent prior and found out the remaining parent had memory issues during this time...so not having a job allowed me to focus on that too.  All good things and good timing. 

However, this was, in part also bad.  Bad because having that outlet to recover and get emotionally healthy while my ucovertNPDwife was at work allowed me to tolerate her emotional abuse better when she was home. I grew stronger, but also more tolerant - or better at employing the tools of the trade - and she got worse/escalated her narc behaviours in an effort to not lose ground with me as her supply.   

Currently, I have been back at a new job for a few months and the ucovertNPD dynamic is ramping up dramatically.   What is different is that, because I am employing tools - gray rock, 51% for me, focusing on my son's needs vs my ucoverNPD wife AND also able to recognize when I am being controlled and abused better and standing up for myself to her - everything escalates quickly, loudly, and narc wife is more outwardly volatile (verbally - but also slamming doors and screaming while running away in the house) in front of son (and dog - never knew how sensitive a creature they are ).

That is context/background : below is why I have come back here to my Out of the FOG friends.

UcovertNPD wife txt that she wanted to 'start separation' and also that SHE "wants to thrive in 2020.  I can't do that with you..."

Before you feel sad about this, know that this was a HOPE for me for the 7 or so years I have recognized that I was in a narc abusive relationship (married now 15+ years, 1 teen son).
I always felt that in order for me to divorce her, it had to be her idea - she had to feel in control of every detail and feel like she was 'winning' just to get the ball rolling.  Seemed like the path of least resistance and once the ball started rolling, we are beyond talking about trying to separate/divorce and actually doing it - if that makes sense??  If I brought it up - like anything from whats for dinner to what should we do for our son's education, she'd play the contrarian to my ideas just to control the topic - I think you guys all have experienced this - its exhausting and an elaborate game to navigate effectively.  If it was her idea, it seemed easier for some reason.

Okay - so, she laid out the rules in this txt - 'Start the first steps of separation...(hundred words later)... let me know the nights you want to come home late and I will do the others' - implying we get home when son and the other is in bed.   I simply responded with two days this week I chose  (If you know my prior posts, you;ll remember she has been known to txt 1000-2000 word txts containing over explanations of her actions and degrading comments about mine in rapid fire when feeling threatened,etc, so this was just the first and final sentence of a long txt).  I actually cheered to myself.

Day 2 - seems to be working.  She stayed away until 10:30pm the first night while my son and I had a great time.  I stayed away last night - went out with old friends - had a great time.  I honestly think she felt I would gravel and beg her to not do this and cave.   What she does not know is that I am happy about this!   I am thrilled actually - but I can't tell her that (because the narc will just try to destroy that).   

QUESTION:   
I anticipate some drama to ensue and destroy all of this - likely with her health or around my son - but - I need to stay strong and rational throughout this.
I anticipate some love bombing - she is already pulling out her best outfits and leaving the door open when she showers - but - I need to not be seduced (again) by this.
I anticipate I will try to be controlled over txt - she will make demands about the house or logistics around my son (just got one while writing this) - but - I need to tell her I have other plans or that I can't or that I will handle it a different way
I know that I will feel she is cheating on me, etc, to gain her supply elsewhere -but - i need to not let this annoy me - true or not, I need to not try to make sense of where she might be or with who she might be with, etc.
I also know I need to be tactful, very aware of my feelings, and ready at all times...

So, Anyone been here - having their narc spouse run the separation/divorce scenario when we all know that is the last thing they (may) want?   How far did you get?
Also wondering if perhaps she is discarding me because I am no longer putting up with her control tactics and she continues to tell me I am, 'uncaring, unsupported, and a horrible human/husband/parent' for me to react and I am just ignoring what she is yelling and doing other things she calls 'selfish'.  Maybe she is moving on?

Thoughts, my wise Out of the FOG friends, on either ?!?!
Tips??

[eyesopen]

My experience, with a uBPD spouse instead of an NPD, has not been good at all.  At the beginning of 2019, things started off similarly to your situation, she texted me that she wanted a divorce but later backtracked and agreed to a separation.  She moved into an apartment of her own and agreed to start marriage counseling with me to work on our relationship.  I wanted to stay together at the time, but like you, I was letting her lead the way thinking that was the best approach and she'd come around.  So far so good, so I thought.  But in hindsight, the counseling was just her throwing me a bone that I totally overvalued.

Counseling went as you might expect, all the sessions were her blaming me for all the problems in the marriage.  Whenever I attempted to bring up anything about her, she played the fragile waif that was only reacting to MY behavior and therefore not responsible for anything.  She love bombed me, committed to being with me, and we stopped counseling.

It came out later that she had been cheating on me prior to her move out and consistently through counseling.  There was even a counseling session where she was so upset at having a fallout with a best friend that she couldn't focus on our relationship during the session.  It was only later that I pieced together that her affair partner had dumped her, so she was too sad to talk about anything else.  We even talked about her "lost friendship" during our session instead of our marriage, with both me and the counselor giving her sympathy.  Sure, you'd think that infidelity would be the primary topic to discuss in marriage counseling, but she kept it secret and had both me and the counselor wrapped around her finger.

Several more times back and forth with her, more of her cheating, more love bombing, all lies all the time but I was a chump.  I believed all the positive things she'd say and overlook all the inconsiderate behavior and disrespect.

She had moved back in with me during a long-lasting love bomb, but the very next day after her apartment lease was over, she said she still wanted to continue her affairs and move out again.  She agreed that that means we ought to get divorced and she's expecting me to do all the paperwork.  And that's where I am now, she's packing up her stuff and sleeping in the guest room while I start to fill out divorce forms.  Now she's just a roommate that abused and discarded me and yet, she's acting nicely, giving me hugs, strutting around naked before and after showers, and totally nonchalant about the whole divorce thing.  I'm finally pulling my head out of the blender and taking charge of my own future... I'm done with her.

I guess the point of sharing my rambling story and my advice to you is this: you need to do what is best for yourself without being manipulated by her.  IME, the separation was an excuse to cheat without her feeling guilty about it, but that's not the way she presented it to me, so I had no idea I was being played until I later found myself calling the doctor for an STD test (twice now).  It's very tough at times because between all the terrible moments, she can be sweet.  She can say nice things.  She can be seductive (I'm a sucker for that one).  It's fine if you want to keep the peace by letting her lead the way, but if she decides not to follow through with the separation in the end, you need to know what you want and not fall into the trap of returning to her if you don't really want to.

[pushit]

I agree with everything eyesopen wrote, just wanted to add a little.

Letting her lead the way may bring you some peace for a little while during the process, but I suspect that will end whenever she realizes that you are happy to move forward with a divorce.  I suggest you make up your own mind and decide once and for all what you want, and no matter what she does do not waiver from that decision.

In my situation, I filed first.  I was completely mentally done with her, and was at the point of having to protect myself and the kids financially, mentally, and physically from her crazy behavior.  So, I had her served with papers on a Friday and moved out.  She retaliated by having me served with divorce papers a few days later.  We had one phone conversation the following week, she was being terribly manipulative so I ended the call and told her I would only communicate in writing from now on.  It's been almost a year and that's still how we communicate, and it's only about logistics regarding the kids.

Then she went on the attack and sent a fake restraining order to my family, accusing me of all kinds of stalking and abusive behavior.  I notified my lawyer and that went away fast.  Then she switched tactics and tried to get back together through multiple overtures from her lawyer to mine.  We politely responded each time that I just wanted to move forward with the divorce.  She was being "kind" at this time and when we went to mediation we settled everything in 5 hours.  Parenting Plan and Separation Agreement signed and done.  I think she did this so I would see how agreeable she is and want to get back together.  After the mediation and before the final signed decree from the judge, their side stalled any way they could.  Tried to change it to a separation instead of divorce, and wanted all language taken out of the agreements regarding "no chance of reconciliation".  We just kept responding that my only interest was a divorce, nothing else possible.  She finally signed the papers two months after the deadline and then the judge gave the final signed approval.  She was sweet to me and told me "I'm not giving up on this family" after it was final, that lasted a couple months.  Once it was clear I had zero intention of reconciling she discarded me and now treats me like dirt.  Frankly, I was happy when she went back to hating me, because it was creepy being around her when she was acting nice.  I knew all too well what lies underneath that facade.

So - The point of my long story is just be prepared for anything and everything.  Based on what you wrote, you are already educated on PD behavior so you know very well that PDs will surprise you any chance they get just to keep you on your toes.  Bottom line - Make YOUR decision and move forward with a clear conscience.

[GettingOOTF]

I think when someone expresses a desire to leave you should let them. A PD doesn't not preclude someone from being able to make decisions about their life.

I would recommend against any kind of limbo. My regret around my divorce is that I did not push it though fast enough. I didn't want to upset anything, so even though we were seperated I was still subjected to his moods, whims and abuse.

I always recommend speaking with a couple of attorneys that specialize in high conflict divorces. I wish I'd known to do this.

Take your wife at her word, respect her wishes and protect yourself.

[zenagain]

Gettingootf

I agree - definitely, if that is her wish, it is mine too.   I am not holding her back - only letting her come to terms with it as her story (and as a uPD that needs to tell her own story to maintain control in her mind).   So, yes, if she really wants to split - we are on the same page.

Good point about the limbo!  Been there for many years.  Thanks for the reminder!!!

I am already starting to get drama - her asking to meet to plan the weekend for the family (when she was the one that asked for space only a couple of days ago).  It seems like a play of push/pull and an attempt at control.   

Stay strong Zen!

I also wanted to thanks the other for their response and sharing - thanks - this helps me!!

I think when someone expresses a desire to leave you should let them. A PD doesn't not preclude someone from being able to make decisions about their life.

I would recommend against any kind of limbo. My regret around my divorce is that I did not push it though fast enough. I didn't want to upset anything, so even though we were seperated I was still subjected to his moods, whims and abuse.

I always recommend speaking with a couple of attorneys that specialize in high conflict divorces. I wish I'd known to do this.

Take your wife at her word, respect her wishes and protect yourself.

[BeautifulCrazy]

Sending you strength. You will need it.
But before the end of it all you and your son are going to be doing so well!!
There are great answers here. I think Pushit has said everything I would have. The only thing I would add is Grey Rock.
Grey Rock.
Grey Rock.
Grey Rock.
Grey rock is your best friend right now and for the forseeable future. Read up on it. Master it.... because you are so right, if she sees how happy you are, she will flip like your favorite spatula. (She will anyway when things don't bring you begging back.)
Keep us updated.

~BC

[zenagain]

As suspected, she is now backpedaling... I asked her for her choice of days of week this week and she admitted that 'this was not working for her', that she felt it was a 'way to reset...time apart to focus... build us back' (technically it was only 4 days) and I seemed to be instead done - uncaring - moving on.   She then went on and on (in a txt) about how I wronged her by doing me own thing this weekend and what I said that offended her, etc.

I would just move out - find an Airbnb - gather stuff to start the paperwork ... but I keep reading that this the worst thing to do with a high conflict divorce case in my future - that if I moved out,  I would appear as if I did not need/want the house I was in or my relationship with my son and I just abandoned them one day without any separation/divorce papers signed.   

Oh - she also told me in the same txt that she'd be gone tonight... push/pull/push...

[GettingOOTF]

Have you spoken with an attorney? There is a lot of misinformation out there. It's important to find out what the truth for your situation is. Meeting with an attorney doesn't mean you have to get a divorce.

For me the most important thing was taking an honest look at my life and asking myself if this was how I wanted to live the rest of my life. I don't have kids, but you do. Is this the life you want for them too? It may be that the answer is yes, but at some point we all need to take control and make actual choices about where we are, whether that's to stay or to leave.

If you leave her in charge of this it will never change. She really had nothing to gain from you leaving.

[zenagain]

Gettingootf,

Good points. 

1.   Is a mediator (with a law degree) the same thing - I assume they have to know the laws (Esquire) but might be a better path to take related to speed and $$$$$ than 2 lawyers?  Anyone have any experience with mediation and a narc SO?

2.  I have done this look at my life for about 5 years now and continue to come up with the same answer - this is not sustainable.  I feel I should be in a marriage where I grow vs get squashed down regarding my dreams, hopes an happiness.  My friends feel the same way.  Her family has told me as well in private it does not sound like a normal marriage.  My son is signalling that he knows his mum is not normal ...(he also loathes her coming home every day because she is equally oppressive with him as me)

3.  Yes - you're dead on here.  I need to drive the bus.  I often do not do that with her which may be relative to the emotional abuse I have endured.  (contrasting to things I have done in my life prior to her).  She doesn't want to lose her supply and has no real (current) avenue to replace it due to how much she works and how she even secluded herself from her own friendships recently. 

Thanks!

Have you spoken with an attorney? There is a lot of misinformation out there. It's important to find out what the truth for your situation is. Meeting with an attorney doesn't mean you have to get a divorce.

For me the most important thing was taking an honest look at my life and asking myself if this was how I wanted to live the rest of my life. I don't have kids, but you do. Is this the life you want for them too? It may be that the answer is yes, but at some point we all need to take control and make actual choices about where we are, whether that's to stay or to leave.

If you leave her in charge of this it will never change. She really had nothing to gain from you leaving.

[GettingOOTF]

I would go with the best attorney you can afford.  Some recommend taking out a loan or using credit cards. I don't know your situation or you so I'd never advise. I would caution you not to skimp as it will cost you in the long run. I speak from experience here.

I never used a meditator. There are plenty of posts here from people who did. Mediating with a PD seems to be exactly what you'd expect.

No one can make these decisions for you. You need to be ready to take action yourself.

I spent a lot of time thinking my situation was different and that things would change. They did, they got worse and my healing and recovery had to come from a deeper place than if I'd taken action earlier.

[zenagain]

Still in limbo... it is maddening.   We don't speak and only do things together for the DS.   I feel I have taking a step forward and won't take a step back, but I also am allowing this limbo to occur by not forcing a conversation or facing her head on.  I feel this will only trigger an argument and allow her to try to gain her control over me somehow.  It's like showing her my cards so that she can go off and figure out a plan of attack.   My son's birthday is this week/weekend, so I know her family will be by and he will want to do things, so I guess I am laying low a bit right now.

I feel my grey rock and ignoring her has continued to make strides, judging by her desperation at trying to gain back control over me with anything I say, but I also don't like to have to interact with her - even make small talk over something with DS - because I don't want it to feel like we are like we were.   Besides, even me saying anything makes her just blow up and try to make me feel bad (which I ignore as I know it is a tactic to engage me in a fight). 

-We continue to sleep on separate floors
-We continue to only interact in the evenings around my teen son - watch a show with him, sit at the table for dinner or breakfast on weekends, go out to dinner on a Friday with him - but the rest of the time we are in separate rooms on our phones or doing other things like strangers. 
-We continue to interact logistically during the week about dinner - she refused to continue with her idea of alternating nights anymore, because, "it is just not working for me (her)".   The thing here is, if I do say, I am not coming home until late, my son is left with no dinner or anyone around from 3pm - 6:30 or 7pm when she finally gets home from work!  That doesn't feel fair to him.

Anyway.... ugh...