Someone please tell me i'm not imagining this ?

[Newbeginnings]

No, you are not imagining any of this at all!  I'm very new here, and have yet to post any of my journey.  But, so much of what you have stated has been lived out through my own Narc mother, her Narc mother (they had a relationship much like what you posted) my father was caught up in the middle of the madness.  I went on to marry (since have divorced) a Narc spouse.  The years you have already spent have been far too many!  I thought I could change things, as many have experienced- you can't.  I have a son, and while I wouldn't change any of that, I'm always sorry he didn't get the father he so deserves. Enjoy the rest of your wonderful life, and share your amazing self with people who deserve you!  Best to you!

[intotheblack]

No, you are not imagining any of this at all!  I'm very new here, and have yet to post any of my journey.  But, so much of what you have stated has been lived out through my own Narc mother, her Narc mother (they had a relationship much like what you posted) my father was caught up in the middle of the madness.  I went on to marry (since have divorced) a Narc spouse.  The years you have already spent have been far too many!  I thought I could change things, as many have experienced- you can't.  I have a son, and while I wouldn't change any of that, I'm always sorry he didn't get the father he so deserves. Enjoy the rest of your wonderful life, and share your amazing self with people who deserve you!  Best to you!

Thank you for this. It's good to hear someone has had a similar experience. Much as i (stupidly) miss the false/initial part of the relationship, i now look at it for what it is and realise that the whole mother/daughter dynamic and in general the distinct lack of boundaries that exist (and my wife not putting her marriage first) is in fact an impossible situation. Her mother will always make decisions for her and she will always submit fully. If (god forbid) i did have a child with her, the child would be in for a very rough ride. There is no other way of looking at it.

[intotheblack]

Thought i'd post a bit of an update on this as there have been a few developments:

My wife is still hiding in France. I went no contact as her behaviour was so odd and erratic that i felt every interaction was having quite a profound effect on me. No contact stuck for four weeks - i said nothing and there was nothing (call/text) from her. I started to think how stupid and abnormal the entire situation was - we had gone from a reasonable solid relationship to her suddenly disappearing without explanation to not talking/interacting. As i said in my previous posts i made numerous attempts to find a middle ground an reconcile, all of which were shut down. Since then, she has done and said absolutely nothing to suggest that she cares one bit about me, the relationship, or our marriage.

With this as the current state of affairs, and the four weeks of silence passing with me in limbo, i decided it would be wise to visit a family lawyer in order to get my head around the potential issues that may arrive if things headed towards divorce - the weirdness of the whole situation had been making me very uneasy and numerous people had suggested i should take advice on what could happen further down the line.

My lawyer was very good, but mentioned a number of things that had me quite concerned. She strongly suggested, under the circumstances, that i try to open some kind of dialogue with my wife (given there had been no face to face / sit down since things started in Dec) to see if there is any potential for reconciliation prior to looking at the legal options for registering a seperation date in order to protect myself from any potential trouble further down the line.

I took her advice and texted my wife asking if we could arrange a phone call. She actually replied and agreed to speak that day. When i called she was calm and generally quite warm. I did feel she was rambling a little about stuff that was nothing to do with anything, but put it down to nerves. I eventually brought up the subject in question - gently pointing out that it was a subject that needed discussed, and couldn't just be ignored. Things changed at this point. She immediately started lightly sobbing, stating that she 'needed to heal (??)' and 'couldn't give an answer' regarding reconciliation.  She then said she 'needed time' at which point i referred to the fact that she had been living at her parents for the past two months whilst i've been here at home trying to figure out what was going on. I said we should be talking things out, and this is where she said something that immediately put me on the back foot - bare in mind she left on Dec 12th last year and this was me talking to her on Feb 6th. She said 'well, i'll be home at some point in April so maybe we could talk then'. I couldn't believe it. She was basically suggesting that in her mind, it seems fine to suggest that i would wait around in limbo for 5 whole months just to talk to her.

So, she basically doesn't want to commit to trying to reconcile, but she expects me to wait around on her 'maybe' talking in a few months. My gut feeling was this was a glaring example of how little empathy she has, and how unable she is to love. The coldness is unreal - it is literally like i don't exist. I read an article on another website that stated that post-discard it almost feels like you are 'too worthless to properly break up with'.

I followed up with my lawyer and ask that she proceeds with a seperation agreement in order that i can protect my assets and anything that i gain from the date she left onwards. My lawyer again suggested i confirm the date we seperated and she would then approach my wife via e-mail to discuss the agreement and move forward from there. Again, i contacted my wife, and when i mentioned what i was doing, i got a very blunt 'i've told you i need time to heal, why can't you understand that ? I don't understand why you feel the need to rush ahead with this instead of waiting. I understand you are hurt, but you aren't the only one. I am hurting too and i am just trying to looking after myself'.

Again, she takes on the victim role. Again she deflects. Again doesn't see how ridiculous the situation is.

[ICantThinkOfAName]

Interesting update.  Sounds like for sure she has decided that you have to wait around for her.  The correct response from her should have been, "I'm sorry that my need to heal myself has come at the cost of our ability to work through issues and I completely understand if you need to move on."  She needs a backup plan and you are ruining her plan B.  Because you sure as heck aren't plan A.  Sorry that you have to be the one to pull the trigger but it'll be so much better not being in limbo.  But she effectively made the decision by her inaction.  Her behavior, her consequences.  I need to feed off some of your resolve and work on pulling the trigger myself. 

[PeanutButter]

Thought i'd post a bit of an update on this as there have been a few developments:

My wife is still hiding in France. I went no contact as her behaviour was so odd and erratic that i felt every interaction was having quite a profound effect on me. No contact stuck for four weeks - i said nothing and there was nothing (call/text) from her. I started to think how stupid and abnormal the entire situation was - we had gone from a reasonable solid relationship to her suddenly disappearing without explanation to not talking/interacting. As i said in my previous posts i made numerous attempts to find a middle ground an reconcile, all of which were shut down. Since then, she has done and said absolutely nothing to suggest that she cares one bit about me, the relationship, or our marriage.

With this as the current state of affairs, and the four weeks of silence passing with me in limbo, i decided it would be wise to visit a family lawyer in order to get my head around the potential issues that may arrive if things headed towards divorce - the weirdness of the whole situation had been making me very uneasy and numerous people had suggested i should take advice on what could happen further down the line.

My lawyer was very good, but mentioned a number of things that had me quite concerned. She strongly suggested, under the circumstances, that i try to open some kind of dialogue with my wife (given there had been no face to face / sit down since things started in Dec) to see if there is any potential for reconciliation prior to looking at the legal options for registering a seperation date in order to protect myself from any potential trouble further down the line.

I took her advice and texted my wife asking if we could arrange a phone call. She actually replied and agreed to speak that day. When i called she was calm and generally quite warm. I did feel she was rambling a little about stuff that was nothing to do with anything, but put it down to nerves. I eventually brought up the subject in question - gently pointing out that it was a subject that needed discussed, and couldn't just be ignored. Things changed at this point. She immediately started lightly sobbing, stating that she 'needed to heal (??)' and 'couldn't give an answer' regarding reconciliation.  She then said she 'needed time' at which point i referred to the fact that she had been living at her parents for the past two months whilst i've been here at home trying to figure out what was going on. I said we should be talking things out, and this is where she said something that immediately put me on the back foot - bare in mind she left on Dec 12th last year and this was me talking to her on Feb 6th. She said 'well, i'll be home at some point in April so maybe we could talk then'. I couldn't believe it. She was basically suggesting that in her mind, it seems fine to suggest that i would wait around in limbo for 5 whole months just to talk to her.

So, she basically doesn't want to commit to trying to reconcile, but she expects me to wait around on her 'maybe' talking in a few months. My gut feeling was this was a glaring example of how little empathy she has, and how unable she is to love. The coldness is unreal - it is literally like i don't exist. I read an article on another website that stated that post-discard it almost feels like you are 'too worthless to properly break up with'.

I followed up with my lawyer and ask that she proceeds with a seperation agreement in order that i can protect my assets and anything that i gain from the date she left onwards. My lawyer again suggested i confirm the date we seperated and she would then approach my wife via e-mail to discuss the agreement and move forward from there. Again, i contacted my wife, and when i mentioned what i was doing, i got a very blunt 'i've told you i need time to heal, why can't you understand that ? I don't understand why you feel the need to rush ahead with this instead of waiting. I understand you are hurt, but you aren't the only one. I am hurting too and i am just trying to looking after myself'.

Again, she takes on the victim role. Again she deflects. Again doesn't see how ridiculous the situation is.

In my mind, idk if its legal, but the last day she was at your shared home with you but then left is the date of seperation.
You will be waiting a long time if you wait for her to cooperate to do the seperation. And as coniving as she and her mother sound you do need to protect your assets imo.
Good luck! You deserve better than this!

[Rose1]

Can I strongly suggest you get another lawyer who understands she works for you and not marriage counselling? My gut feel is that she would not be up to an attempt by your mil and wife to go for you in a divorce. It's nice to be conciliatory but not a trait you need in a lawyer. You want someone who can look after your interests. She should be giving you legal advice and suggestions. Get another opinion

[NumbLotus]

I don't have divorce experience but I feel the same way. Your lawyer's advice just painted you into a corner. You need someone who understands what the deal is.

You've been abandoned and some vague mention that she'll return 5 months after she left, which she never told you until YOU tried to settle the issue, which may not even be true or may not come to pass, is not a "yes, we can work this out."

[intotheblack]

Can I strongly suggest you get another lawyer who understands she works for you and not marriage counselling? My gut feel is that she would not be up to an attempt by your mil and wife to go for you in a divorce. It's nice to be conciliatory but not a trait you need in a lawyer. You want someone who can look after your interests. She should be giving you legal advice and suggestions. Get another opinion

To be honest i thinks my lawyer is actually very good - i understand why you are saying what you are but the entire first hour of our meeting was incredibly detailed in terms of the legal protection aspect. She mentioned a lot of things i hadn't even thought of and went over the various different scenarios as to how they could play out. All the potential risks etc. She has now approached my wife directly via e-mail and i think what she wrote is straight to the point without being inflammatory, which i feel is important given how much her mother tends to feed off any drama that comes along. I do think i'm in for the long haul on this because as much as she clearly doesn't want to fix things i also think she wants to maintain control from a distance. Like they always say about PDs - they really do tend to keep people like library books....

[intotheblack]

Interesting update.  Sounds like for sure she has decided that you have to wait around for her.  The correct response from her should have been, "I'm sorry that my need to heal myself has come at the cost of our ability to work through issues and I completely understand if you need to move on."  She needs a backup plan and you are ruining her plan B.  Because you sure as heck aren't plan A.  Sorry that you have to be the one to pull the trigger but it'll be so much better not being in limbo.  But she effectively made the decision by her inaction.  Her behavior, her consequences.  I need to feed off some of your resolve and work on pulling the trigger myself.

Thanks for that. Yes i think the thing that has been really grinding me is that post-discard feeling of being worthless, or as someone else cleverly put it 'not even worth breaking up properly with'. The sense of being completely in limbo and having no control over the situation at all is exhausting. As much as it really saddens me that thing have come to this i do think taking some proactive action does put you back in a sense of control - my gut feeling is that she will string things out as long as possible knowing i miss her if left unchecked. The lawyer making contact at least brings some kind of focus to the fact that there is consequences to her actions, and that i'm not going to sit around like a lost puppy hoping thing turn around.

[Rose1]

Ok. That's good. Most of us make the big mistake of not being strategic which usually means we are left with big bills. For example wasting time on multiple sessions trying to come to agreement and we try not to upset the pd. Most pds do not have those concerns and are more interested in manipulation, pay back and winning. Ime anyway. My ex said he was going to make it as hard as possible for me. So that was his only motivation.

A lot of lawyers don't understand that. If yours does, then great.

[intotheblack]

So, there's been a bit of a bizarre update....

If you've been following things you will know that my lawyer sent out an initial e-mail to raise the prospect of the seperation agreement and suggest that my wife get appropriate legal representation.

My wife responded a week later, although i have to tell you that it was in fact clearly an e-mail written by her controlling/enmeshed mother (i can tell because of the choice of words, general phrasing, punctuation, spacing etc). The e-mail started with "i am rather confused regarding your e-mail". The source of the confusion ? Well, apparently we've been on an 'agreed' break to 'reflect upon a difficult time in our marriage'. This is the first i've heard of that. There was never any discussion or agreement made to suggest so. If anything there was nothing said, and no dialogue - i was entirely in the dark as to what has been going on.

I'm starting to think the underlying plan that she/her mother had/has was to a) disappear, b) cause as much hurt, concern, and confusion, then c) stonewall long enough in order to make me submit to whatever is required, d) return to the marriage wielding more power that she had previously. It is almost like they think they are teaching me a lesson of sorts.

I instructed my lawyer to push ahead for seperation, so i fully expect the wrath of her/her mother to come down on me. It is particularly interesting how much of a reaction you get when you do something that they just do not expect, like say 'no, i've had enough of this, i do not want to be involved with you any more' etc. Disappearing for 5 months without discussion isn't a lesson, it's just an unacceptable thing to do in a relationship on every level. I think it's true what has been said in various videos regarding PDs - they are not particularly smart at times.

[PeanutButter]

WOW so bizarre. It is maddening to me to think that it is her MOTHER not her replying to you. That is just wrong. Who does she think she is. And no wonder she is confused. She has no idea what went on because SHE WASNT THERE!
Good job on standing your ground and telling your lawyer to proceed. You are looking out for you now, You must protect yourself. I agree with you that the Mother may be a Predator.

[intotheblack]

So today, after 5 months of no communication or dialogue, i get a text message - "hi, i hope you and your folks are okay". A reference to the Coronavirus situation obviously but to me it's a clear hoover attempt.

She had work engagements taking her up to April, which have undoubtedly been cancelled. Looks like she's running low on supply....