Planning activities

[Findingmyvoice]

I just wanted to share another lesson that I had to re-learn this week.
It's best if I just don't involve exBPDw in anything involving the kids.

I have been making a major effort lately with my communications to exBPDw in an effort to hopefully get her to respond / react in a kinder way and reduce her impact on the kids.
She often involves the kids and shows them our communications, telling them that I am raging at her or that I am angry at her.  I'm not.  My communications are not angry in any way, the kids know that and tell exBPDw that I'm not angry, but exBPDw still interprets it that way.
I have been super upbeat in my communications, Excessive punctuation and emojis everywhere, hoping that it will change the way that she interprets the communication and the way she responds.
I have also been giving her more information hoping to make her feel included.
I was having some success.

There was an event that my son had asked to attend, but the only time we could make it work was at the end of her parenting time.  I would have to pick 2 of our 3 kids up early.
One of my daughters stays with me and the other two visit mid-week.
I told exBPDw about the event (I should not have, I should have just said that I want to pick them up early) and asked if I could pick the kids up 2 hours early.
She didn't reply at all for 2 or 3 days then the day before the event my son asked if we were still planning on going.
ExBPDw then replied back saying that they had other plans so I could not pick them up early.
Then my son texted me and said that their mom was going to take them to the event.  Whatever, she wasn't being forthright, but as long as the kids get to go I'm fine with it.
So I replied positively to exBPDw and said that if she changed her mind that I could still pick them up.

Son texts me the next morning (day of the event) and said that sister is sick and doesn't want to go. He doesn't know what to do and is asking for my help.  Also told me that he doesn't want to go with his mom.  I read between the lines, I know that exBPDw is probably telling him that now he can't go.  He is only allowed to go if she takes him (he can't go with me) and she won't go unless sister goes too. I was correct.
I just told him that I could still pick him up if needed. ( I really can't do anything about sister being sick or exBPDw)
Later in the day he texts again and says that mom is being unreasonable so he just won't go.
In the meantime exBPDw is texting me telling me that he can go with me, but she wants a "makeup" visit because I am picking him up early.
She won't accept any of my suggestions for extending the next visit because then she would have to drive him to an activity. ( her opinion is that activities should be on my time and that they only count as my parenting time and not hers.)
I told my son that we would work something out.  He replies that exBPDw wants to trade time and that he was hoping it would not come to this.
He did agree to going to a makeup visit though.
So, I conceded and did what exBPDw wanted so that we could go to the event even though it kind of screws up our busy Saturday.

But the lesson for me is that even a simple request causes all sorts of drama for the kids at her house.
My daughter told me that she was sleeping and exBPDw came in to her room and woke her up, turned her lights on and was sobbing accusing her of lying to her mother.
My daughter had no idea what exBPDw was talking about or why she was being accused of lying.  She still doesn't know why, she just knows that it was something to do with this event.
Son was apparently in tears over this multiple times. I have seen my son cry once or maybe twice in the last two years, he has to be really pushed hard to break down and start crying.
Yet, I hear reports of him crying almost every visit at exBPDw's house.  And for some reason he still wants to go over there.  I feel like we have an emotionally safe home, my kids are not judged for being angry, upset or hurt.  As a result I put up with a lot of complaints, but it's worth it to keep my kids talking.
A simple request turned into hurt feelings, uncertainty for the kids, manipulation, blame, accusations.

Not to mention the name calling and vile comments I had to put with from exBPDw while I was trying to negotiate a swap.
She will always put her own needs above the kids, she won't do what is right for them unless it benefits her in some way.

[Penny Lane]

I found with H that he felt - and I felt - like he had to at least TRY all the stuff you said. Including his ex, giving her extra information, being aggressively nice and friendly. All kinds of strategies to improve the coparenting. I think we knew deep down that they wouldn't work. But having tried all them, now we really KNOW. We never have to wonder if he just jumped straight to being harsh and unfriendly for no reason.

Now, the rules are very strict. No trades. No asking her for swaps even.

H would've said: "FYI, DS has X activity at Y time." That's it. No request to take him. MAYBE (it sounds like your ex is much more willing to take you up on this than H's) "I can take him if you want, please let me know by X day otherwise I might make other plans." If DSS asked us if he was going to be able to go, we would've said "that's up to your mom." No matter how important the event, the back and forth is not worth everything you just described, especially not the abuse toward the kids.

Your kids are old enough I think they can decide whether or not to ask their mom to take them to a thing. Maybe you don't need to be involved at all. Maybe you tell your son "well that's on your mom's time so it's up to her. I'm happy to drive you if that's helpful. Let me know. If I don't hear from you I'll pick you up at the normal time."

I know you know all this. This incident is just a reminder. It's so frustrating to know that there's absolutely nothing you could do differently to make her not be awful toward the kids. And there's nothing you can do to ensure that the kids get to participate in the bare minimum of activities.

We're seeing something similar over hanging out with friends. DSS, a preteen, is increasingly wanting to spend all his free time with friends. At our house we mostly let him as long as we have enough family time too. We think this is good for his development. BM just doesn't let him go to anything - and I mean ANYTHING, I don't think he's been to a birthday party or had a playdate at her house in more than a year. It's sad but she has the right to make those decisions, I guess. The best thing we can do is not do things that cause MORE tension over it.

Sorry you're dealing with this. You're doing everything right and really bending over backwards to be the bigger person here.

[Findingmyvoice]

Thanks PL,
Originally after leaving, I had to set hard boundaries.
I thought that after a while I would be able to relax them and we could introduce a little bit of give and take.

I should have known better.  exBPDw has always been very transactional in relationships. There is no give and take.

I'm going to continue with the aggressively friendly communication for as long as I can, but just leave out the extra information.

Two weeks ago we had a stretch of very cold weather and exBPDw asked if she could drive the kids during my parenting time in the morning rather than them taking the bus.  I put up with a solid week of her messaging me 2 or 3 times a day with some sort of blame or accusation.  Just because I allowed her to drive the kids 5 minutes to school in the morning.
As always, as soon as she is involved there are problems.

I was talking with my parents on the weekend and we talked about how we feel sorry for exBPDw when we see her in social situations.  Everyone else socializes and acts normal, while she sits alone or walks away.  The kids ignore her at times, even though I encourage them to go talk to her.  She seems so excluded and alone, we can all empathize with how that feels.
As humans we want to include her, but we all know what happens when we do.
She continues to treat everyone around her poorly, so it's no wonder that she's in that position.
The really sad thing is that I don't think she even knows she is treating people badly.  There were many times when she was completely confused by how people reacted to her.  She had no idea that her actions were effecting her relationships with people.  In her mind it's everyone else's fault and she is the victim.

[athene1399]

As always, as soon as she is involved there are problems.

This often happened in our situation. Sometimes it was just BM would get SD anxious about something and point out all these problems that didn't exist. Then SO and I would try to work through the problems or reassure SD that they weren't really problems at all. It would be easier to leave out BM, but even though it would be easier, it felt wrong. That's why I like Penny's suggestion. You don't ask her to do anything. You just inform her of what is going on. She can choose to ask you for help or she doesn't. It does suck when things do not happen for the kids because of her, but you can only control so much. You can't make her work with you or compromise on anything.

I also agree with Penny on being strict on the trading of time. That too easily became a slippery slope for us. For us, when it came to our day to make up the extra time BM needed with SD for whatever, something came up where we never got our time back.

I'm sorry you went through this, but don't beat yourself up over it. I can't even count the number of second chances we gave BM. We never expected them to work out, but felt obligated to try to include her in stuff or give her the benefit of the doubt and later found out she was lying.

[Penny Lane]

Originally after leaving, I had to set hard boundaries.
I thought that after a while I would be able to relax them and we could introduce a little bit of give and take.

I hear you.

What is so frustrating to me is that in the several years I've known DH, his coparenting relationship has never gotten better because BM has never changed, not even a little. He has changed and learned better strategies for dealing with her. But the underlying relationship itself is just as bad as it was the day she moved out. She's been burned in court and she will temporarily get on the surface nicer, but she doesn't actually get more productive. He has tried loads of strategies to make things productive and basically none of them work.

It truly drives me crazy, all she would have to do would be to put the kids' needs first. Or even just like, make them a priority! And everything would be so much easier.

[athene1399]

SO and I always said that we wished BM would put the energy she uses to try to scam or screw him into compromise or changing her behavior. It never happens though. It gets frustrating to see them stuck in the same pattern of behavior. Especially when we put so much energy into phrasing ways to say "no" or "let's talk about this later" just so that she wouldn't blow up on us or cause issues with SD by blaming SO for something. it is what it is I guess.