More control from Dad - hes good at this....

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p123

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More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« on: January 28, 2020, 07:13:11 AM »
Remember Dad likes to do this. He likes to gather his minions to pay homage to him. He thinks people should, basically, pay him respects etc.

He moaned for weeks that my wife didn't make a special effort to call him on his birthday. Shes never done this before but he was most put out. Same with xmas.
Think he knows hes upset her this year (many times!) and is trying to make sure she knows her place...

Its her birthday this weekend. Again hes come up with "well if I send her a card I hope shes going to call me to say thank you".

Turning it around and playing games again. Wife has no interested in speaking to him - I don't blame her either. BUT of course now hes going to say how ungrateful shes being.....

Honestly. he seems to have a rule book in his head. Everyone should treat me like this. This is him fighting back to assert control again....
I just wish he would leave it. Wife is never going to have a relationship with him but he wont accept it.

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lkdrymom

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Re: More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2020, 08:26:25 AM »
I didn't realize getting a birthday card required a formal thank you note.  Or maybe that is what she should do.  Send him a note card saying thanks for the birthday card. This way the card is acknowledged but she doesn't have to interact with him.

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Call Me Cordelia

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Re: More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2020, 08:59:04 AM »
A rule book that he revises at whim, and yet everyone should clearly know. As if his thoughts are your brain’s operating system, complete with automatic updates to comply with the latest version.  :roll:

A thank you for a card? Please. The grandiosity and entitlement here! If he makes a tiny effort he expects much much more of a “big effort” in return. The king has descended from his throne to spread his largesse. All hail.  :udaman:  Some people’s pwpd’s hoover with substantial amounts of money, mail every day, etc. I’m glad for your wife’s sake he’s so lazy and stingy, but oh my gosh. 

:spaceship:
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 09:01:28 AM by Call Me Cordelia »

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p123

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Re: More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2020, 10:08:39 AM »
I didn't realize getting a birthday card required a formal thank you note.  Or maybe that is what she should do.  Send him a note card saying thanks for the birthday card. This way the card is acknowledged but she doesn't have to interact with him.

Yes note is a good idea!

This idea hes got is crazy. When he came up with "she should phone me on my birthday" it was crazy. Shes never done before. And as I pointed out to him I never specifically call my MIL so whats the big deal about it all.

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p123

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Re: More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2020, 10:09:25 AM »
A rule book that he revises at whim, and yet everyone should clearly know. As if his thoughts are your brainís operating system, complete with automatic updates to comply with the latest version.  :roll:

A thank you for a card? Please. The grandiosity and entitlement here! If he makes a tiny effort he expects much much more of a ďbig effortĒ in return. The king has descended from his throne to spread his largesse. All hail.  :udaman:  Some peopleís pwpdís hoover with substantial amounts of money, mail every day, etc. Iím glad for your wifeís sake heís so lazy and stingy, but oh my gosh. 

:spaceship:

He might up it this time and put £10 in the card mind...... He knows this will have more effect....

Yes its what he decides. Hes noticed that my wife has no contact with him. Brothers wife is there all the time and he doesn't like it. Why doesn't she help me like the other one? He even says "I haven't seen her for ages" as if its her duty. To be honest, never going to happen with my wife.

As Eminem says "Won't even be at your funeral". Fully support my wife - its her choice and he has been awful to her over the years. You reap what you sow and all that.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 10:12:25 AM by p123 »

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appaloosa

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Re: More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2020, 12:26:49 PM »
If I were in your situation I'd say "Dad, she dislikes you and she's not going to be contacting you regardless of whether you send her a card, a million dollars or nothing. So give it up. Furthermore, if you start talking about it again, I'm walking out the door."

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p123

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Re: More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2020, 12:36:41 PM »
If I were in your situation I'd say "Dad, she dislikes you and she's not going to be contacting you regardless of whether you send her a card, a million dollars or nothing. So give it up. Furthermore, if you start talking about it again, I'm walking out the door."

Yes I've not made it quite so clear to be honest. I'd hoped there'd be no need.
Much as I'd like to point out to him the things he done of course.

He must know hes upset her to be honest. BUT knowing Dad he moves on and its all forgotten about and swept under the carpet. Its almost as if he blanks it from his mind and forgets it ever happened. Its weird. I suppose its like catching your spouse in bed with your best friend then next day they're happily sat there asking what you want to do for dinner. Thats Dad.

When it was his birthday he would not let it go - I had to tell him to drop it then. He then had the cheek to say "its ok,I know its not you're fault". Jeez I nearly exploded.

Its going to come to that. Trouble is I know he'll go into full scale "Oh now what have I done" (as if he has no idea what hes done) followed by "Oh I'm so sorry - I don't want to upset anyone". Then I'll get weeks of it doing my head in.

I remember last time when he pulled a stunt and dragged my wife into it. I had a right go at him and told him he was out of order. He apologised then and asked me to apologise to my wife (no personal phone call there then!). OF course, two weeks later hes back doing the same.

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_apparentlywicked

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Re: More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2020, 04:47:46 PM »
He knows she doesn't want anything to do with him so is using this to help him discard her in his head; 'she's rude so I don't need to think about her (or how I've treated her)'. Don't engage. Shrug your shoulders. 

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Andeza

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Re: More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2020, 05:10:48 PM »
Mhmm, and he also knows it's a sore point for you and you feel the need to constantly defend your wife by saying "she's busy with work," or whatnot. Once he's got you on the defensive, that's supply, my friend. Mom always did the same dang thing to me until I stopped playing the game. I stopped playing by pretty saying "oh well" to anything she didn't like.

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WomanInterrupted

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Re: More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2020, 05:48:40 PM »
The next time he brings up your wife in any capacity, I'd state only, "You're not her father.  She owes you nothing, so drop it."   :ninja:

Repeat as often as necessary - if you keep saying it, like a broken record, for *any* reason, including he sent your wife a tenner in her card and she hasn't called or  written a thank you note:  "You're not her father.  She owes you nothing, so drop it."

He says, "But it's rude and I sent her a tenner!" (or something along those lines).  :dramaqueen:

Repeat and either leave and or end the call.  Those are your only options, lest he spiral down the not wanting to upset anyone rabbit hole.  :stars:

You can do this - but it means you have to be very strict with somebody who has no concern about how they treat you or make you feel.  You can't let him call the shots - you're the one taking control and putting limits and boundaries on what you will and won't put up with.  8-)

 :hug:

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illogical

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Re: More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2020, 08:04:07 PM »
Hi p123,

I think you are correct in your assessment that your dad is trying to goad you into a showdown about your wife.

He's going to chip away at you about your wife until you explode (he hopes) and then he's got you in a very vulnerable, manipulative state.

There are two options here, but really there's only one.

Option No. 1--   You could offer no or little response (grey rock) the next time he brings up your wife.  Like when he says something passive-aggressive like "Well, if I send her a card I hope she's going to call and say 'Thank you'" you say "Hmm." and change the subject.

Even if you do grey rock him, though, it's just biding time, IMHO.  Yep, it's headed for a showdown.  He wants to force you into choosing him or your wife. 

Option No. 2-- Grey rock him until he insults your wife.  I think he will, eventually, if you ignore his passive-aggressive jabs by grey-rocking him.   When he does finally insult your wife, set him straight, but not in a hyper-emotional way.  Try to remain calm and say "I'm not going to listen to you insult my wife."  If he denies-- "What do you mean?  I didn't insult her."  You say "Yes you did, and I'm not listening to that."  Then leave.  Or hang up the phone if you are in a phone call. 

He's trying to drive a wedge between you and your wife.  He won't change.  I would be prepared to tell him, calmly, but in no uncertain terms, where you stand.  And when he turns into The Victim and says "What have I done?" (as if he doesn't know), I wouldn't take a nanosecond to explain it to him.  I would say "You know what you did.  And I'm leaving (or hang up)." 

The way to deal with this issue is to cut to the chase.  Don't let him continue to play cat and mouse with you on the subject of your wife.   Let him know where you stand and be firm about it.  Draw a boundary and don't be afraid to set consequences for that boundary.  I wish I had better news, p123, but you can do this!
"Applying logic to potentially illogical behaviour is to construct a house on shifting foundations.  The structure will inevitably collapse."

__Stewart Stafford

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doglady

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Re: More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2020, 11:50:22 PM »
Yes, your dad, the geriatric toddler, whose rules must be adhered to. Or else. Except of course they don’t have to be at all, p123, as you already well know.

I personally like Andeza’s suggestion of saying ‘oh well’ (along with a shrug) and then changing the subject and/or hanging up/leaving if he persists.

I can say from personal experience that using ‘oh well’ like it’s some sort of tic in response to my own elderly updM has often worked pretty well. For me anyway.  ;) She obviously hated it that I didn’t engage with her rubbish (or, in her parlance I was ‘selfish and didn’t care at all’). And I think this is what keeps on bothering you, p123. You keep stressing about what his next move is going to be and that he won’t he happy about it. But it’s always going to be the same old moves. He has a very limited playbook, honed over the decades. Why would he ever change? There’s absolutely no motivation for him to do so.

But I hope you can continue to change, p. I fervently hope that you can keep moving further along the path of giving way less of a fat rat’s about what his next move might be.

He sounds annoyingly persistent in the extreme (I’ve read many of your other posts) and very like my own updM, who could nag for Australia. And if I was your wife, based on all that you’ve said here about him, I wouldn’t go anywhere near him either. She is being very healthy in her behaviours, and your father doesn’t have to be happy about it. Don’t worry about managing his emotions. They’re his to wrangle. Although he doesn’t have to if you’re doing it for him.

The other thing he’s obviously trying to do is pit your wife against your SIL. Again, my own updM would also constantly do this. She would let me know how wonderful, caring, and helpful to their parents various friends’ and relatives’ golden children were, how much they did, blah blah blahdy blah.

Cue very deadpan reply from me along the lines of, ‘well, they truly are amazing offspring,’ followed by a rapid subject change. I usually then received the patented death stare, some faux-sad shoulder slumping for effect,  followed by some belated ‘punishment’ from updM (who also has the memory of an elephant...a very selective one though).

But what can they really do? Ground us? Cut off our allowances? It’s comical really, when you stop to think about it.

Keep going, p123. Keep fighting the good fight. You’ve nearly got this. You’re so close. I can feel it in my bones.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 12:40:25 AM by doglady »

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doglady

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Re: More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2020, 12:07:20 AM »
Also, I read this great sentence in a Dear Prudie advice column the other day. I believe it is very pertinent to your father (and my mother): 

‘The one advantage she has over you is that she is a deeply unreasonable person who is willing to expend a TON of energy trying to exhaust you into giving her what she wants.’

This quote was in answer to a particular woman whose share-house mate, as I recall, was driving her round the bend with random irrational trivialities. But it obviously applies equally to PD males, too - very obviously in your dad’s case, I’d say.  ;D It’s the hallmark of the nagger. They’re just willing to go that extra distance.  :stars:
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 12:42:41 AM by doglady »

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p123

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Re: More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2020, 09:04:17 AM »
The next time he brings up your wife in any capacity, I'd state only, "You're not her father.  She owes you nothing, so drop it."   :ninja:

Repeat as often as necessary - if you keep saying it, like a broken record, for *any* reason, including he sent your wife a tenner in her card and she hasn't called or  written a thank you note:  "You're not her father.  She owes you nothing, so drop it."

He says, "But it's rude and I sent her a tenner!" (or something along those lines).  :dramaqueen:

Repeat and either leave and or end the call.  Those are your only options, lest he spiral down the not wanting to upset anyone rabbit hole.  :stars:

You can do this - but it means you have to be very strict with somebody who has no concern about how they treat you or make you feel.  You can't let him call the shots - you're the one taking control and putting limits and boundaries on what you will and won't put up with.  8-)

 :hug:

ha ha pretty spot on how it happens with him!

Hes mentioned about 10 times in the last few weeks "I haven't seen your wife for over a year now". As if shes duty bound. Its going to be a long wait.

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p123

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Re: More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2020, 09:07:53 AM »
Hi p123,

I think you are correct in your assessment that your dad is trying to goad you into a showdown about your wife.

He's going to chip away at you about your wife until you explode (he hopes) and then he's got you in a very vulnerable, manipulative state.

There are two options here, but really there's only one.

Option No. 1--   You could offer no or little response (grey rock) the next time he brings up your wife.  Like when he says something passive-aggressive like "Well, if I send her a card I hope she's going to call and say 'Thank you'" you say "Hmm." and change the subject.

Even if you do grey rock him, though, it's just biding time, IMHO.  Yep, it's headed for a showdown.  He wants to force you into choosing him or your wife. 

Option No. 2-- Grey rock him until he insults your wife.  I think he will, eventually, if you ignore his passive-aggressive jabs by grey-rocking him.   When he does finally insult your wife, set him straight, but not in a hyper-emotional way.  Try to remain calm and say "I'm not going to listen to you insult my wife."  If he denies-- "What do you mean?  I didn't insult her."  You say "Yes you did, and I'm not listening to that."  Then leave.  Or hang up the phone if you are in a phone call. 

He's trying to drive a wedge between you and your wife.  He won't change.  I would be prepared to tell him, calmly, but in no uncertain terms, where you stand.  And when he turns into The Victim and says "What have I done?" (as if he doesn't know), I wouldn't take a nanosecond to explain it to him.  I would say "You know what you did.  And I'm leaving (or hang up)." 

The way to deal with this issue is to cut to the chase.  Don't let him continue to play cat and mouse with you on the subject of your wife.   Let him know where you stand and be firm about it.  Draw a boundary and don't be afraid to set consequences for that boundary.  I wish I had better news, p123, but you can do this!

To date I've been doing option 1. Ignoring him completely.

Then I think back and think hmm hes been VERY close to insulting her to be honest. Like you said, its not working at the moment, I can see him upping things.
His last comment "its ok I dont blame you" was a bit much. As if hes blaming her for something.

I can't believe he forgets how he treats people. He must know what hes done. Its almost as if hes bulletproof and everyone must forgive him.

To be fair to my wife, if her mother treated me like he does to her I'd have exploded long ago. Wife just ignores him. My MIL is midly annoying though but Dad is in a whole new league.

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nanotech

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Re: More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2020, 09:12:22 AM »
My dad is like this about cards. Heíll ask me if family have received them on the pretext of  being worried they got lost in the post.

I usually pass on a general thank you, but if he makes a fuss beyond that I tell him that my kids love getting cards from him, but also how busy my kids are.

 I donít JADE. Itís just a statement.

If your dad then says
 ď Busy doing what?Ē or 
ď I donít blame youĒ 
 then thatís rude. 
Heís crossed a boundary, and you can calmly tell him that, then politely say goodbye, you must go now because he was rude and crossed a boundary.
Itís  unacceptable for him to question you and yours or to even bring in the word, Ď blameí.
You and your wife are not separate planets, you are a team. i think heís using her to insult you. You are really the target.

Then ring off.
Give him a consequence of his rudeness.

Until you do that this behaviour will continue. We canít control them but we can change our responses to them.
They enjoy spitting nastiness on the other end of the phone.
Iíve stopped my dad doing this. It took about a year.
If he lapses or seems like heís going to lapse, I donít accept the phone call. I ring off, always politely. No phone slamming down, ever.
Phones slamming down used to be a favourite of my UNBPD mum. Then sheíd ring after two days as if nothing had happened. It became normalised!
Donít allow him to talk scathingly about your wife, and indirectly about you.
Heís so disrespectful to you wife and you when he says he doesnít believe you like that. Heís trying to get you to say to him that she doesnít like him. Donít allow him to force that out of you, but equally, donít listen to his criticism of her.

Iíve had quite a few birthdays spoilt by my UNPD parents. I used to get anxious as the date loomed!
Dad wanted me to spend my 60th birthday driving him through a busy city to and from a medical procedure he didnít need.

This is how he asked me,

 ď I know exactly where YOU are going to be on your 60th birthday! Driving me from my home to the hospital and staying with me to have my procedure, then driving me home and staying over the night WITH ME.Ē

Errrrrr nope.

They think any family birthday is an excuse for them to become the centre of attention once more.

On the last birthday I had before mum died, they talked me into going to see them on my own. ( 2 hour round trip) UNBPD at one point during the day, decided to attack my character, citing it as the reason why UNPD sister in law hadnít come that day.  I held it together until I got in the car to drive home .
I sobbed all the way home. At one point I nearly had to stop driving.
Mum did ring the next day, with Ďnot quite a sorry,í saying she knew sheíd upset me ď on my birthdayĒ.
I of course told her it was fine. The following birthday sheíd passed away. Thatís my last birthday memory of her.
Sorry, Iíve gone on a bit here did not mean to hijack your thread. Birthdays eh?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 09:19:03 AM by nanotech »

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nanotech

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Re: More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2020, 09:26:13 AM »
Remember Dad likes to do this. He likes to gather his minions to pay homage to him. He thinks people should, basically, pay him respects etc.

He moaned for weeks that my wife didn't make a special effort to call him on his birthday. Shes never done this before but he was most put out. Same with xmas.
Think he knows hes upset her this year (many times!) and is trying to make sure she knows her place...

Its her birthday this weekend. Again hes come up with "well if I send her a card I hope shes going to call me to say thank you".

Just look at how heís phrased it?
And the conditional nature of the question?
My answer would have been

ď Itís entirely up to you whether you send her a card. And if you do her reaction will be entirely up to her.Ē 

Donít allow this triangulation to continue.

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p123

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Re: More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2020, 01:24:29 PM »
My dad is like this about cards. Heíll ask me if family have received them on the pretext of  being worried they got lost in the post.

I usually pass on a general thank you, but if he makes a fuss beyond that I tell him that my kids love getting cards from him, but also how busy my kids are.

 I donít JADE. Itís just a statement.


I know I need to work on this myself - If I don;t visit he wants to know what I was doing. Really annoying.

He thinks he can ask any question and I've got to answer. There should be no secrets and he has to know everything.

I still remember his best ever when we told him wife was pregnant last time. (Bit of background - she was 40 at the time).

"What? You're both a bit old, kids cost money - so was it planned?"

Should have seen my wifes face!

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p123

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Re: More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2020, 01:28:23 PM »
Remember Dad likes to do this. He likes to gather his minions to pay homage to him. He thinks people should, basically, pay him respects etc.

He moaned for weeks that my wife didn't make a special effort to call him on his birthday. Shes never done this before but he was most put out. Same with xmas.
Think he knows hes upset her this year (many times!) and is trying to make sure she knows her place...

Its her birthday this weekend. Again hes come up with "well if I send her a card I hope shes going to call me to say thank you".

Just look at how heís phrased it?
And the conditional nature of the question?
My answer would have been

ď Itís entirely up to you whether you send her a card. And if you do her reaction will be entirely up to her.Ē 

Donít allow this triangulation to continue.

Hes got this massive chip on his shoulder that "hes old" and "you know what I'm like" which, he thinks, gives him carte blanche to do what he likes and say what he likes....

In the past, hes said some really awful things to my brother (who I now see deserves it so  I let him carry on now). I'd say "come on Dad, thats not on, you can't say that, its none of your business really".

His reply would always be "You know, if I've got something to say, I've got to say it".

I did tell him last time he did it to me that thinking like that just meant people would think of him and describe him with the word that starts with am A! And if he wanted to go around upsetting everyone with inappropriate comments he'd soon run out of people who want to bother with him (which has happened).

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Andeza

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Re: More control from Dad - hes good at this....
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2020, 02:36:36 PM »
"Yes dad, and if you say it, you know how I am, if I've got to leave, then I've got to leave."

You can do it, p123.  :thumbup: