I poked the bear

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moglow

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I poked the bear
« on: February 02, 2020, 05:02:30 PM »
Several months back mommie dearest accused me of being the reason she doesn't have relationship with one of my siblings, that I somehow drove a wedge there. She was vicious about it and seemed to truly believe and enjoy her version of the story. She completely disregarded her own contempt for and neglect of that whole relationship, as if she could neatly lay it all at my feet.

My first (unfortunate) response was outright laughter at the ridiculousness of it all, and it didn't improve from there. I wasn't laughing at her but rather the very idea that I somehow created this chasm between them. As I pointed out to her that day, he's a deeply intelligent and strong willed individual on his own - he doesn't need and wouldn't welcome any interference from me.

The call ended with more attacks on *my* character and supposed motives, then her telling me where I could go and hanging up on me. I've not called her since. She's called a couple of times with perky chirpy airy fairy messages as if that ugliness never happened. I went along ... Until I find I can't.

All is not right with the world/her and it's not okay. I need her to explain and to clear the air. If she's not able to do that, I can't pretend any longer. It's eaten at me long enough. Lord knows she built that up in her mind a while before dumping it on me so ...

I have before me an ultimatum. I threw it out to her via text that I'd like to clear the air. If she can't or won't apologize for the things she said and the way she talked to me, my way forward is clear and she's well and truly on her own.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 05:24:41 PM by moglow »
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xredshoesx

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Re: I poked the bear
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2020, 06:10:11 PM »
this is HUGE girl!


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moglow

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Re: I poked the bear
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2020, 06:40:34 PM »
Huge to me/us but I'm afraid she may use this as another opportunity to put on a big mad and be a victim. I'm just not willing to swallow it any longer and pretend it's all okay.

Thing is, mother's much more likely to call or text during the work week when she knows I won't answer. Actually talking something out and laying it to rest is not her forte, but I have to try even if she'd rather play all put upon and mad. And then trot out the many and varied excuses why I'm wrong and she isnt responsible (yet again) for her own words.


And if the gods are kind, she'll do just that and go completely silent.
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moglow

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Re: I poked the bear
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2020, 09:22:16 PM »
She responded but -wait for it- she says I didn't seem to want to talk about it (after I asked specifically wth she was talking about??) AND says she's not going to dwell on something she can do nothing about. What. The actual. She can do nothing about the way she talks to me? She can do nothing about her baseless accusations and outright nastiness??

But the piece' de resistance? She wants me to come up there/her house after my brothers legal issues are resolved. Wth has one to do with the other?? I have no answer. These issues have been ongoing for some five years now and I'm not sure what any of it has to do with her. Guarandamntee he's not and won't be requesting her presence. But No, she needs to wait longer to talk to me ..

What dafuq ever, mommie dearest. You do you, I should have seen an excuse coming. Bet she's hoping I'll let it go. NOPE.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 09:35:45 PM by moglow »
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moglow

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Re: I poked the bear
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2020, 12:18:34 PM »
And so the texts begin ... She couldn't/wouldn't talk to me yesterday, but she's already texting vague snippets with lots of exclamation points. References to "the family problems" as if she had no responsibility there for the complete lack of respect and compassion she's shown for years. She sees it as her against the world I suppose, while I'm taking each relationship individually. They're not all one and the same for me - yes they're my brothers, but they're individuals first. She sees just extensions of herself, and apparently doesn't like what she sees. So *we're* supposed to change to suit her, I guess.

Sigh. It's sad, y'all. Another glimpse into her emptiness, fed by anger and martyrdom.
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Outsiderchild

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Re: I poked the bear
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2020, 12:16:29 AM »
Ugh.  Just what audience are these texts playing to?  They almost sound like some Facebook drama/manipulation that others are reading. 

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Re: I poked the bear
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2020, 08:56:38 AM »
Wowza and food for you for speaking up. It's not going to get anywhere I'm pretty certain. There's no switch to flip, no flash of light coming. No admitting anything. Just the usual PD playbook stuff, more of the same, over and over and over. I'm so sorry Mo and hope you can disconnect from the craziness.
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moglow

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Re: I poked the bear
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2020, 10:46:27 AM »
So basically, as I'm sure y'all knew and rightly predicted, her texts were for her to speak - not at all for me to respond. She makes the rules (wait to talk), breaks them by continuing herself, then gets all huffy when I dared respond.

She ended those volleys with asking why I don't drop it for now (um YOU continued so I thought you wanted to??), then noted that "this" is discouraging. Well no shit, Sherlock!! It's been real discouraging, for a real long time! I can't help but wonder what she possibly saw as ENcouraging here, at any point in time. That I want to talk to her at all and she thought she could gloss over it? Maybe she was casting about for someone to blame and I put it right back on her and her choices?


Maybe it's one small clue for her that all is not right with the world and I cant/won't ignore it. But I'm not supposed to stand up, ask questions, request answers. I'm supposed to comply and lay down like a good little doormat.
That tiny glimpse confirmed that she wants me to "visit" to talk around it. Play nice. Pretend all is well. I know she doesn't want to talk about anything, she's fine right where it is. Leave the past in the past and all that. Well yeah. Except she doesn't. The instant she gets some push-back, it'll all blow again.

It wasn't a good day. Predictable as the sun coming up in the morning, My stomach was wrecked all day, continued into the evening. Talked to my brother for a while and got it out, then I dove back into Harry Potter to escape my mind. Soon everything settled around and within me.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2020, 11:51:44 AM by moglow »
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Bloomie

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Re: I poked the bear
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2020, 12:11:58 PM »
Moglow - this....
Quote
I have before me an ultimatum. I threw it out to her via text that I'd like to clear the air. If she can't or won't apologize for the things she said and the way she talked to me, my way forward is clear and she's well and truly on her own.
:cheer:

False accusations made. Mo corrects and confronts the lies and falsehoods setting a firm line. Mother equivocates and kicks up dust to confuse and confound and frustrate.

Your mother seems like a person that needs a fight to get out of bed in the morning.

And your body keeps score and you suffer once again. What a painful exchange. I am so sorry you are dealing with this and really proud of you for drawing the line. That is huge!

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moglow

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Re: I poked the bear
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2020, 01:27:29 PM »
And she's texting again this morning ... Apparently I gave her a tongue lashing in my few texts yesterday. And she paid her debt to me a long time ago. Not sure what that debt may have been or that one was owed on either side, but duly noted.

But yes, I guess she starts her days with/looking for a fight, gets what she's looking for and then feels all justified in it. As a good friend just noted, maybe if this debt is paid I'm free to walk away.

« Last Edit: February 04, 2020, 02:13:06 PM by moglow »
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Deb2

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Re: I poked the bear
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2020, 05:35:54 PM »
Quote
   She ended those volleys with asking why I don't drop it for now (um YOU continued so I thought you wanted to??),

Gosh, it's she related to my probably N BIL? He starts stuff and then says "Just drop it now! " as if he didn't start it. :roll:

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moglow

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Re: I poked the bear
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2020, 06:00:41 PM »
*We* are supposed to drop it I suppose, while they continue on unhampered This goes back to her standard "children are to be seen and not heard," and you never "talk back" to mommie dearest. You're supposed to sit/stand there and take it for as long as it lasts and whatever form it takes. In silence. In my mind I hear "did you hear what I said??? Answer me when I'm talking to you!" Then yelling more when you dared say anything in response.

Double bind, damned if you do damned if you don't. Guess she's found her mad through my unwanted response.
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sandpiper

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Re: I poked the bear
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2020, 06:39:42 PM »
Gosh Mo, every time I think perhaps I should dive back into my FOO to try to mend some bridges, I come here and there's one of your posts somewhere at the top of the thread list.
It's like you're the tour guide up front of me in the track shouting 'Rock Fall! Rock Fall.'
I don't know what to say other than I'm sorry you're going through this and thank you for reminding me what happens when you venture back down the rabbit hole, trying to hold one of them accountable, and invariably they turn it around and spin it so it's all your fault.
It's exhausting and crazy-making and infuriating.
Whenever I encounter anyone who believes the spin promoted by my family and they want me to justify myself I just shake my head & say 'Oh no, you should believe all they say. It's all my fault and I am a terrible human being and they are all far better off without me poisoning their lives.'
And then I add another name to the list of Suckers, Flying Monkeys and Sycophants that I need to keep far from my inner circle of sanity and I exit the rabbit hole and leave them to it.
 :bighug:

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moglow

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Re: I poked the bear
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2020, 10:13:11 PM »
I made that very reference today, that I'm the one who dragged myself back down the rabbit hole. I did it. I brought up the unmentionable, the very thing that set her off the last time, only that time she blindsided me with it. I didn't understand then, understand even less now other than her insistence on always having a mad in reserve.

I would occasionally have appreciated some insight in how she goes from point A to B by way of XY or Z. But as we all well know, it's based on the whim if a moment, a shift of the air, lunar eclipse at midday or what have you. So nah. Her debt to me was paid long ago, remember.  :blink:
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moglow

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Re: I poked the bear
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2020, 01:04:35 AM »
Quote from: sandpiper
Gosh Mo, every time I think perhaps I should dive back into my FOO to try to mend some bridges, I come here and there's one of your posts somewhere at the top of the thread list.
It's like you're the tour guide up front of me in the track shouting 'Rock Fall! Rock Fall.'
I don't know what to say other than I'm sorry you're going through this and thank you for reminding me what happens when you venture back down the rabbit hole, trying to hold one of them accountable, and invariably they turn it around and spin it so it's all your fault.

You think maybe I'm that lesson we all need, that big ole flashing "Danger, Will Robinson!" meant to give someone pause before you leap? Perhaps. My mistake yet again was in not sticking with that gut punch "I'm done here" that was voiced by both me and mommie dearest when she lit into me last time. But she's not done, she's never done. She pulls back then plays nice like all is well, only it's not and we both know it.

For all that she flings in my face that I've shown her over and over how I feel about her (or not), it doesn't occur to her that works both ways OR that she gets mad whenever I point it out. The contempt in her words and tone, the many times she's sneered at me like I'm nothing - I have no doubt at times I've returned it without thinking. I honestly wonder if it's deliberate on her part, trying to goad me into returning fire so she can SEE??? And you dare accuse me of talking down to you!! What do you expect, treating your own mother that way?? You know, painting me as the bad guy so she can feel all justified.

But, I called it again. She tells me to wait until "things settle down" so we can talk, then starts texting and gets all offended when I respond. She burns down all possibility of trying to find any middle ground within a couple of days. Once again she's texting when she knows I'm at work and can't focus or talk to her at all. That's WHY I blocked her cell phone years ago, because it was so disruptive with her circular spiral bullshit. Who am I kidding? It's all a game to her, entertainment.

And I jumped down that rabbit hole, AGAIN  :disappear:

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athene1399

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Re: I poked the bear
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2020, 12:25:24 PM »
I am sorry over how she is acting, Moglow. Don't beat yourself up over wanting to try to make things better. How she is acting is certainly not your fault. You just wanted to see if she'd be willing to have a discussion so you could try to work out the problems in your relationship. IMO she is showing that she cant do that. How frustrating that she keeps saying "Let's wait until this settles down" then continues to blow up your phone.

There is nothing wrong with going down the rabbit hole to try to see if things will be better the next time around. I randomly test the waters with my parents to always find nothing has changed. I always have to recheck just in case. And I do it far less out in the open than you (like I share something about me to see how they react). You have a lot of courage even if you don't feel it. I've never had the courage to openly confront either of them. I think it's natural to crave a better relationship with our parents even if logically we know it's impractical. Coming to terms with "things will never change" is difficult IMO. It feels too final.

I hope your situation improves and she gives you a break from the texting tirade.

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moglow

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Re: I poked the bear
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2020, 03:11:52 PM »
Athene, honestly at this point I hope she just goes away and stays there. I know who she is as much as I'm able, and I don't like her. Were she not my mother, I'd have never kept her even on the distant periphery of my life. That's telling, isn't it? Mother sees me as a lesser extension of herself who is apparently only allowed mother's views and opinions, follows her lead and never dares speak up otherwise.

She's chosen to let it/this concern of mine go (for whatever period of time, again) so everyone must. Over and over and over again, now's not the time. It's the holidays, birthday, random anniversary of some event or death in the family, "situations" needing resolution first, etc. She goes on about "everything going on" but doesn't actually say what that is, just complains that I have no idea what she's dealing with. Plus her inevitably taking on stress and drama of something totally not hers at all, and her nerves are shot with the drama of it all.  :dramaqueen:


There's never going to be a perfect time, and she doesn't want to hear it anyway. Always an excuse and "just leave it in the past," as if it's not the self same as before, possibly a slightly different event but same result. Her response/lack of same has rolled it off into a lifetime of problems between us. She says/said in the past she wants a relationship with me, but why?? To what possible purpose?

Truth is, we don't and won't have a relationship to speak of. If either of us were remotely interested, we wouldn't be having this conversation about a good time to talk. We'd just talk, strive to do better, lay it down and continue on. Random peripheral bullshit wouldn't be flung in my face to cloud the issue. She wouldn't be picking up sticks to throw later when it's quiet and peaceful. Because there's somehow always one.more.thing that she's dredged from ancient history that I never heard about before ...
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 03:16:51 PM by moglow »
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sandpiper

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Re: I poked the bear
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2020, 06:53:25 PM »
I feel guilty sometimes because I don't have the courage to test the waters with my FOO.
When I started at these boards I felt like I'd been drained of the will to live because of the constant jabs. Most of it little things, but you bleed and you bruise and it erodes your spirit.
And I'd never know if they'd done something deliberately to hurt me or if it was just that I mattered so little to them that they didn't even realise they were hurting me. And there's that standard abuser response of 'You're being oversensitive.'
In my FOO there's the compounding problems of alcohol & substance abuse, so I could never nail it...is it the narcissism, the BPD, the alcohol, the illicit drugs, the over-the-counter-drugs, the prescription medications (at one point I'm sure that uBPDsis was taking stuff she'd made the doctors prescribe for her kids)...or is it just that they feel better if they can make me feel rotten - all of it was just like walking through a  field of landmines and quicksand and never knowing if something was going to suck you under and suffocate you or send you flying through the air bleeding and reeling from being hit by the explosive schrapnel.
And then there's the time you waste after each encounter, licking your wounds, doing triage, wondering WTH went wrong with your strategy and why your counsellor-endorsed psychological HAZMAT suit failed to protect you from the toxic air in that environment and how they managed to find new weapons to penetrate the armour that you don before you step back into the arena.
I just have this sense of futility, now. I still feel that longing - imagine if they did the work to get better. Imagine it. I did it, why can't they? Why is it so much easier for them to keep on with what they do, surely they can see that they're poisoning their own lives as well as mine?
It's just so damned frustrating, that they don't.
I remember when I started counselling, I had this goal of wanting to be find a way to have a relationship with my family. Therapy has led me so far away from that, because at some point I realised that this was an impossible dream and I had to set realistic goals, and the achievable goal was that I could do things differently in my own life, but I could never change my FOO. Breaking the cycle meant breaking away.
That hurts. Some days I'm OK with it, other days, no.
I can't imagine not wanting that, Mo.
I think it's very, very human. And as others have said - testing the waters isn't unreasonable, it isn't a wrong choice. It means that we are still flexible and open to change.
One of the things I beat myself up for is that I don't feel strong enough or resilient enough to test those waters. I admire those of you that do.
I've come to think that it's just human to hold out hope that one day, they'll change. Hope is the other side of the coin from despair.
Sometimes what gets to me is a sense of failure at my own inability to find a way to deal with them. In another sense it's just pure frustration that they won't step up and go to therapy and do the work that I started to do, thirty-five years ago. There's a sense for me now that I've travelled so far away from my FOO, trying to learn more positive ways to engage with the world, that FOO is now a foreign country. Even that feels like the wrong analogy, though, because I think for most people there's comfort in going home. For me, it's discomfort, and it's immediate.
I'm glad I did the work.
But I know that I'm a refugee from my own family, and it doesn't feel safe to go back.
You tried, Mo. You went back and the war is still going on inside your mother's head. You tried - it didn't work - and now you sit back and do the emotional triage.
It sucks.
I was really close to attempting contact with the worst abusers in my FOO, and then for some reason I came here and the first post I saw was yours.
Perhaps we get the moon cycles too and I'm right there behind you with that urge to try... :stars: Anyway this time around you were the canary down the coal mine, for me.
And I am grateful for the reminder.
I know that if I tried, I'd be reaching out to people who haven't done the work that everyone here has done. The way that people speak about things here, and process stuff and are kind while they are able to challenge us to seek new insights...that's become a new normal for me. It's something that I learned here and in T and I'm so grateful for that because I've been able to carry it with me into the real world and it's my tool kit, my sustenance, my first aid kit, you know?
Sometimes I need to remind myself of something I once said to a therapist, who was wanting me to test/break NC. And that was a very firm 'No' and what I said to her was 'I can't. They won't change and I don't like who I become in response to them.'
I think sometimes that is just the bottom line for me, with boundaries. I need to be with people who can bring out the best in me and who will accept and forgive and love me when I'm not at my best, when things are dragging me down.
FOO is just so hard.
I have a particularly challenging one who is creating a snarl of complications for me at the moment and the number of times I've had the uncharitable thought 'Piper, just breathe, things will be easier when he's dead.' The first time I thought that I felt terrible. The awful thing is that it's true. PDs are exhausting. People who aren't related to one just have no idea what we deal with and the weariness of spirit that comes from dealing with someone who sees everything through the distorting kaleidoscope lense of their own internal damage.
I'm rambling, and I'll stop.
Hugs, Mo. From one old soldier in the PD trenches to another.
I don't know what I'd do, some days, if I didn't have you guys at these boards.
I've built a pretty good life for myself but nobody gets it like you guys do.
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Honey_B

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Re: I poked the bear
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2020, 08:19:15 AM »
Your mother sounds a lot like mine  :doh:

My mother has this perception that "the world" owes her. She sees herself as this self-sacrificing martyr whom everyone is out to get. Even her own children. And for that reason, you cannot make any demands on her because she is such a poor victim who has always had to live up to everyone's demands.

This, of course, it projection at its finest. She is describing others as herself. She is the one making constant demands and victimizing her children.

What is so crazy is that any conflict is an energy boost for her. Whereas for me, it’s the opposite. That’s why it makes no sense to have a "talk" with her. She will escalate the conflict to a huge fight which will make me sad and angry whereas she will feel fantastic and energized afterwards.  She cannot learn, I will only make my own mental health worse if I try to talk reason with her. It’s the opposite of what almost every self-help book, psychologist or coach will tell you. This concept of "talking about things" does not exist.

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moglow

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Re: I poked the bear
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2020, 09:35:49 AM »
Quote from: sandpiper
...I was really close to attempting contact with the worst abusers in my FOO, and then for some reason I came here and the first post I saw was yours.
Perhaps we get the moon cycles too and I'm right there behind you with that urge to try...  :stars: Anyway this time around you were the canary down the coal mine, for me.
And I am grateful for the reminder.

Sandpaper, I'm glad you saw a canary when you needed  and that I was able to help! Oddly for me, other than initial day-of stomach circus, I've been all right. Okay I'm tired - REALLY tired - but that too makes sense. Adrenalin dump and all that. Not a fun time, but that too is a necessary evil. The recovery time is much needed and a continuing reminder of what it takes out if us when we jump off into yet another exercise in futility.

Quote
I know that if I tried, I'd be reaching out to people who haven't done the work that everyone here has done. The way that people speak about things here, and process stuff and are kind while they are able to challenge us to seek new insights...that's become a new normal for me. It's something that I learned here and in T and I'm so grateful for that because I've been able to carry it with me into the real world and it's my tool kit, my sustenance, my first aid kit, you know?

I'd not thought of that but you make a good point. I've come to learn and appreciate a different world that mother has no clue even exists. We may not always agree here and we have some tough conversations, but we have them - without shredding anyone. She literally refers to those conversations as "picking a fight." Valuable information there, isn't it? Anything that challenges her inner status quo is picking a fight??? Driving turmoil? No acknowledgement that people need to be told some things, that they can only guess (and usually guess wrong!) if nothing is actually said.

Incredibly sad world she's chosen isn't it - and don't mistake me, I know she *has* chosen it, time and time again. Knowingly, willingly and to all intents and purposes, happily. Feeling all justified in her anger is apparently her happy. She's welcome to it. Life really is too short and I don't want *this* to be my legacy as well.

But I'm thankful I was your canary again.  :cool2:
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 09:40:58 AM by moglow »
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