Dad, brother, and wills

[p123]

Some of you will know the hassles I have with my Dad. My brother too is the biggest FM in the world - and I've been NC with him for a few months now.
However, a few things he said before this got me thinking.....

Dad has money in savings. He also part-owns (its sort shared ownership thing with housing association - he owns 50% they own 50% and he pays rent on this) a flat/apartment. Hes probably got £40K in the bank and his share of the flat is probably around £80K.

Dad has always said his will is split 50/50. Dad is never one to take advice but I think hes put both of us down as executors also.

Something brother said before we went NC got me thinking. Hes not owned a house for years, got into financial trouble and has rented places fro years. He piped up one day "when Dad is gone I'm sorted I'll have this flat". He knows hes down for half only.

Thinking about the sums here. It would cost him £40K to buy my share, yet he'd only have £20K cash. He doesn't have any more and there is no way he'd get a mortgage.  I dunno, based on what hes done in the past, I could see him moving himself in as soon as Dad is gone and then saying "ah I'll pay you back the money I owe". Of course, I'd never get it off him. I can then see me being cast as the bad one if I moaned because I know he'd try to paint me as "the monyegrabber".

All feels a bit wrong when Dad is still with us - sort of like vultures. And OK I don't really want the money BUT I'd be really off if my brother forced the situation into having something hes not entitled to.

Ultimately, what could be done? Part of me is thinking - do nothing. If he wants to play that game then I'd just wipe my hands of it all.

In the UK, inheriting shared ownership property would depend on the contract.

Usually, upon death the local authority has the option to buy your deceased fathers share, thus his estate would get the money.  Your brother would not inherit the property under such a scheme, just the money.

Thanks, I did wonder how it works....

Trouble is this is the brother who threw piles of letters from HMRC in the bin until they turned up early one morning and served him with notice of court appearance. Thats his attitude "Its not fair, why should I have to do that (or pay that)?" I've seen it MANY times with him. Ex-partner upsets him "I'll show her I wont have the kids at all". Credit company chasing for late car payments "I'll show them I'll hide it at my friends house"

Can guarantee that if he decides he'd rather like to live in the flat then he will grab his stuff and move it in. If you can even then explain to him the concept of not actually being his and him maybe having to buy me out then his attitude will be "OK I'll pay him back" - of course with no intention to do so. Solicitors letters telling him he needs to vacate will be binned and thus would start the facebook campaign about how evil I was to get legal people "onto him".

As you can see, I know my brother very well... I am quite easily see this being Bailiffs etc dragging him out. He is ADAMANT that hes having the flat because he needs it. Crazy eh?

[M0009803]

Some of you will know the hassles I have with my Dad. My brother too is the biggest FM in the world - and I've been NC with him for a few months now.
However, a few things he said before this got me thinking.....

Dad has money in savings. He also part-owns (its sort shared ownership thing with housing association - he owns 50% they own 50% and he pays rent on this) a flat/apartment. Hes probably got £40K in the bank and his share of the flat is probably around £80K.

Dad has always said his will is split 50/50. Dad is never one to take advice but I think hes put both of us down as executors also.

Something brother said before we went NC got me thinking. Hes not owned a house for years, got into financial trouble and has rented places fro years. He piped up one day "when Dad is gone I'm sorted I'll have this flat". He knows hes down for half only.

Thinking about the sums here. It would cost him £40K to buy my share, yet he'd only have £20K cash. He doesn't have any more and there is no way he'd get a mortgage.  I dunno, based on what hes done in the past, I could see him moving himself in as soon as Dad is gone and then saying "ah I'll pay you back the money I owe". Of course, I'd never get it off him. I can then see me being cast as the bad one if I moaned because I know he'd try to paint me as "the monyegrabber".

All feels a bit wrong when Dad is still with us - sort of like vultures. And OK I don't really want the money BUT I'd be really off if my brother forced the situation into having something hes not entitled to.

Ultimately, what could be done? Part of me is thinking - do nothing. If he wants to play that game then I'd just wipe my hands of it all.

In the UK, inheriting shared ownership property would depend on the contract.

Usually, upon death the local authority has the option to buy your deceased fathers share, thus his estate would get the money.  Your brother would not inherit the property under such a scheme, just the money.

Thanks, I did wonder how it works....

Trouble is this is the brother who threw piles of letters from HMRC in the bin until they turned up early one morning and served him with notice of court appearance. Thats his attitude "Its not fair, why should I have to do that (or pay that)?" I've seen it MANY times with him. Ex-partner upsets him "I'll show her I wont have the kids at all". Credit company chasing for late car payments "I'll show them I'll hide it at my friends house"

Can guarantee that if he decides he'd rather like to live in the flat then he will grab his stuff and move it in. If you can even then explain to him the concept of not actually being his and him maybe having to buy me out then his attitude will be "OK I'll pay him back" - of course with no intention to do so. Solicitors letters telling him he needs to vacate will be binned and thus would start the facebook campaign about how evil I was to get legal people "onto him".

As you can see, I know my brother very well... I am quite easily see this being Bailiffs etc dragging him out. He is ADAMANT that hes having the flat because he needs it. Crazy eh?

It does seem to me that he is in for a rude awakening.

You don't really have to do anything in that situation, as its the local authority that will have him evicted (as they co-own the property and have rights over it)    In theory, he could apply for the same shared ownership scheme, but given his finances are so terrible, he is very unlikely to qualify.

All of this essentially points to you not really having to worry about anything.  Eventually, all your fathers assets will be liquidated, and you'll both get your share of that money What he does with his share is his business. If I were you, I'd move on after that as he doesn't sound all that healthy for you.

[p123]

Some of you will know the hassles I have with my Dad. My brother too is the biggest FM in the world - and I've been NC with him for a few months now.
However, a few things he said before this got me thinking.....

Dad has money in savings. He also part-owns (its sort shared ownership thing with housing association - he owns 50% they own 50% and he pays rent on this) a flat/apartment. Hes probably got £40K in the bank and his share of the flat is probably around £80K.

Dad has always said his will is split 50/50. Dad is never one to take advice but I think hes put both of us down as executors also.

Something brother said before we went NC got me thinking. Hes not owned a house for years, got into financial trouble and has rented places fro years. He piped up one day "when Dad is gone I'm sorted I'll have this flat". He knows hes down for half only.

Thinking about the sums here. It would cost him £40K to buy my share, yet he'd only have £20K cash. He doesn't have any more and there is no way he'd get a mortgage.  I dunno, based on what hes done in the past, I could see him moving himself in as soon as Dad is gone and then saying "ah I'll pay you back the money I owe". Of course, I'd never get it off him. I can then see me being cast as the bad one if I moaned because I know he'd try to paint me as "the monyegrabber".

All feels a bit wrong when Dad is still with us - sort of like vultures. And OK I don't really want the money BUT I'd be really off if my brother forced the situation into having something hes not entitled to.

Ultimately, what could be done? Part of me is thinking - do nothing. If he wants to play that game then I'd just wipe my hands of it all.

In the UK, inheriting shared ownership property would depend on the contract.

Usually, upon death the local authority has the option to buy your deceased fathers share, thus his estate would get the money.  Your brother would not inherit the property under such a scheme, just the money.

Thanks, I did wonder how it works....

Trouble is this is the brother who threw piles of letters from HMRC in the bin until they turned up early one morning and served him with notice of court appearance. Thats his attitude "Its not fair, why should I have to do that (or pay that)?" I've seen it MANY times with him. Ex-partner upsets him "I'll show her I wont have the kids at all". Credit company chasing for late car payments "I'll show them I'll hide it at my friends house"

Can guarantee that if he decides he'd rather like to live in the flat then he will grab his stuff and move it in. If you can even then explain to him the concept of not actually being his and him maybe having to buy me out then his attitude will be "OK I'll pay him back" - of course with no intention to do so. Solicitors letters telling him he needs to vacate will be binned and thus would start the facebook campaign about how evil I was to get legal people "onto him".

As you can see, I know my brother very well... I am quite easily see this being Bailiffs etc dragging him out. He is ADAMANT that hes having the flat because he needs it. Crazy eh?

It does seem to me that he is in for a rude awakening.

You don't really have to do anything in that situation, as its the local authority that will have him evicted (as they co-own the property and have rights over it)    In theory, he could apply for the same shared ownership scheme, but given his finances are so terrible, he is very unlikely to qualify.

All of this essentially points to you not really having to worry about anything.  Eventually, all your fathers assets will be liquidated, and you'll both get your share of that money What he does with his share is his business. If I were you, I'd move on after that as he doesn't sound all that healthy for you.

OK. Yes I know the flat is owned and managed by a Housing Association which I guess is the same thing.  Good news on this at least.

No plans to have any contact with brother when Dads gone.

[qcdlvl]

If you wind up co-owning your dad's place with your brother, you could probably (check your local laws) go to court to force a sale of the property, you and your B would get your respective shares of the sale, minus taxes and expenses. Since your B is  unreasonable this is probably a better option than trying to get him to buy your share or something. If this means he winds up evicted, that's his problem. If the place goes to the housing association, then your B squatting there is their problem.
You and your B being both executors sounds like a complete nightmare. I would avoid this at almost all costs - if and when the time comes, you could look into contesting this provision of the will, or other legal remedies (your F is unreasonable so I wouldn't even broach the topic). If it's not a lot of money (and it might not be when the time comes) I'd just walk away from it.

[p123]

If you wind up co-owning your dad's place with your brother, you could probably (check your local laws) go to court to force a sale of the property, you and your B would get your respective shares of the sale, minus taxes and expenses. Since your B is  unreasonable this is probably a better option than trying to get him to buy your share or something. If this means he winds up evicted, that's his problem. If the place goes to the housing association, then your B squatting there is their problem.
You and your B being both executors sounds like a complete nightmare. I would avoid this at almost all costs - if and when the time comes, you could look into contesting this provision of the will, or other legal remedies (your F is unreasonable so I wouldn't even broach the topic). If it's not a lot of money (and it might not be when the time comes) I'd just walk away from it.

Thanks. yes its going to be a mess I can see

[nanotech]

I've read up a little on will executors. I think if you want to, you can employ a solicitor to carry your duties as executor out for you.
I might have to do this as the other executor is my GC  UNPD brother!( Who currently has sole POA.)
Could be tricky! 
Yes, there's a fee for legal help, but it may  well be worth it!

Otherwise I'll just medium chill it 😉
The thing my brother finds frustrating these days, is that he can't seem to rile me any more. Nor do I ever get defensive with him.
It's the homework I've done on narcissism and the way I've changed my responses.

[p123]

I've read up a little on will executors. I think if you want to, you can employ a solicitor to carry your duties as executor out for you.
I might have to do this as the other executor is my GC  UNPD brother!( Who currently has sole POA.)
Could be tricky! 
Yes, there's a fee for legal help, but it may  well be worth it!

Otherwise I'll just medium chill it 😉
The thing my brother finds frustrating these days, is that he can't seem to rile me any more. Nor do I ever get defensive with him.
It's the homework I've done on narcissism and the way I've changed my responses.

OK. That sounds good. 99.9999% sure Dad would have made us co-executors (theres just me and my brother). Can guarantee he'd have gone to see the solicitor and said "OK just half each for everything".

[nanotech]

Do you know, when the time comes, I think your brother's  lack of stamina for paperwork may well go in your favour?
There's much time and energy involved.
A lot of the work is repetitive, and and executors have to apply themselves and cooperate very closely.
I can't see him wading through all those legal documents, sending letters out etc,just for the buzz of creating some conflict.
He may want just to see how much money there is, but after that I can see his involvement fading. Possibly.
After dad passes, if you are legally allowed to change the locks on the property, I would absolutely do that asap.
Because once he's in there,  he will employ non -action and avoidance for as long as he can.
I think that's his plan. He won't want the tricky paperwork, he has a key so he'll just park himself there, and then ignore you.,
He thinks you'll never evict him.
His primary strategy for conflict seems to operate from non- action, avoidance, that sort of thing.
He may even be tempted to sign off from the responsibility of executor and leave it up to you.
The latter is a good thing for you. Him occupying the property for any length of time- that's what you need to try to avoid.
Once in, he'll pull out all the stops to stay there.

[p123]

Do you know, when the time comes, I think your brother's  lack of stamina for paperwork may well go in your favour?
There's much time and energy involved.
A lot of the work is repetitive, and and executors have to apply themselves and cooperate very closely.
I can't see him wading through all those legal documents, sending letters out etc,just for the buzz of creating some conflict.
He may want just to see how much money there is, but after that I can see his involvement fading. Possibly.
After dad passes, if you are legally allowed to change the locks on the property, I would absolutely do that asap.
Because once he's in there,  he will employ non -action and avoidance for as long as he can.
I think that's his plan. He won't want the tricky paperwork, he has a key so he'll just park himself there, and then ignore you.,
He thinks you'll never evict him.
His primary strategy for conflict seems to operate from non- action, avoidance, that sort of thing.
He may even be tempted to sign off from the responsibility of executor and leave it up to you.
The latter is a good thing for you. Him occupying the property for any length of time- that's what you need to try to avoid.
Once in, he'll pull out all the stops to stay there.

Oh yes interest in doing anything will last 5 seconds....

Interest in getting into the flat will be within hours. Trouble is its special lock the housing association have put on there. Keyless entry etc. So I cant mess with it.

He will get there then ignore all letters etc. He wont care. Like I said he did it before with HMRC and then bleated it was so unfair...

[nanotech]

Hmm just wondering, won't he have to comply with the
Housing Association rules and regulations?

[p123]

Hmm just wondering, won't he have to comply with the
Housing Association rules and regulations?

I'll have to look into that. He owns 45% then pays rent for the other 55% to the housing association.

I agree its not as simple as someone else moving in of course. But what do the housing association do once brother is in there? On the plus side, they'd be keen to get him out maybe? Or would they just be happy to shift the lease over to brother so at least they get their rent? (Good luckt with that one he'll be skint every other month)

[nanotech]

I'm just off out but wanted to answer- I think there would be at least some financial scrutiny of your brother by the HA. It's worth looking into. Don't be put off by feelings of guilt as dad is still here! It's just planning for you and your family.

[p123]

I'm just off out but wanted to answer- I think there would be at least some financial scrutiny of your brother by the HA. It's worth looking into. Don't be put off by feelings of guilt as dad is still here! It's just planning for you and your family.

Yeh he'd be the "ideal" tenant NOT.

Even at almost 50, he still does not understand that things like loans, payments, rent etc is not something that you can say "I'm a bit skint this month I'll sort you next week". Hes tried this with car loans  -as if they care. Then you get on facebook how awful they are sending him nasty letters and to never get a car loan from xyz.

Mind you hes the same with his estranged kids. His idea is he;ll send them a few quid when hes flush. Other than that he doesnt bother. He was most put out (as was Dad who said she was a nasty b@tch for dong this). It was hilarious and I told my Dad "good for her all shes doing is getting what shes entitled to".

[qcdlvl]

I'll have to look into that. He owns 45% then pays rent for the other 55% to the housing association.

I agree its not as simple as someone else moving in of course. But what do the housing association do once brother is in there? On the plus side, they'd be keen to get him out maybe? Or would they just be happy to shift the lease over to brother so at least they get their rent? (Good luckt with that one he'll be skint every other month)

Again, not your problem. If they have to evict him, or he doesn't pay, it's no skin off your nose. If by some miracle they come to some arrangement and he honors his part, ditto. When the time comes, my advice is to view it as unemotionally as possible - what is to your advantage (forget about fairness or what your B deserves or doesn't deserve), and what you can realistically do. If it's to your advantage to force a sale, do it. If there are provisions for the housing association to buy your F's share from the estate, take the money. If it offers to sell its share, don't buy it. Don't co-own anything with your B because he'll just expect to live there rent-free while expecting you to pay all the taxes and maintenance. Much better to force a sale, even if you lose a big chunk of the place's nominal value. If anyone tries to make your B squatting there your problem, tell them he's legally an adult and you have no control over his actions, rinse and repeat, and that further bothering you about it will be construed as harrassment.
Again, my advice is that if when the time comes it's not a lot of money, just decline to be executor and let the chips fall where they may - if you end up getting nothing, view it as buying peace of mind. If it's a worthwhile sum, then my advice is to get a lawyer to handle it - your B can either decline to be executor, or deal with your lawyer.

[GettingOOTF]

It sounds like your brother really suffered growing up in a home with a PD parent. Many people who grow up like this are stunted and don't develop proper coping skills.

Both my siblings are similar to your brother. I have compassion for them. Something happened in my childhood that allowed me to become resilient, leave the family systems and become a more functioning adult. They did not have this. I suspect it's because I was the scapegoat so had to learn to do many more things for myself at a young age, where as they were handed a lot and that's how they live their lives. It's not their fault and it doesn't make me a better person than them. I'm grateful for the life I ended up with and all my success. I feel compassion and sadness for them.