Dealing with sibling- pd parents

[Orangeblossom77]

First of all I am unsure if my brother has a pd at all, probably not, think he may be a bit kind of codependent due to our pd parents (separated)

I'm struggling a bit with him as they are getting older. I have gone NC with our mum. Dad having medical dramas, is a hoarder, cut himself and ended up in hospital recently.

Dad rang me and I asked the hospital to arrange transport home for him and also do a social services assessment, although in the past he has not engaged with support,

Sibling is not happy, says he should have spoken to them as they would have assessed him at the time and not sent him home, now taking time off work to go round and 'help'...

however now they are going to arrange carers for dad and also doing a welfare check which i feel is a good thing..

but it doesn't seem good enough for my sibling, they think it would make him happy to visit etc

So I guess I am struggling with the expectations of my sibling..they seem to have got used to me being NC

Struggling with FOG basically since the incident...but then thinking to myself if I cut myself and was in hospital would I ring my daughter and worry her? Probably not...

I have tried to share my feeling with my sibling but no reply.

[nanotech]

What you've arranged for your dad is brilliant. You've done everything you could, and I think for your sibling to say otherwise, well that must be coming from a place of jealousy, rivalry, or something akin to those.
   
I've been there with this, trying to help my dad accept that mum needed professional end of life care. I had to endure criticism from siblings who felt I had no right in the matter, due to the current unpleasantness and scapegoating( me) at the time.
If I were you,  I wouldn't try to contact your sibling. Just be in touch with who you want to be in touch with.
You've made your dad safer than he was before, but please also keep yourself safe and the boundaries strong.
Siblings may have their own ' shoulds' and ' shouldn't s' but they don't apply to you.

No contact is your choice.

Their expectations are nothing to do with you. You run your own life and they don't get to tell you what to do.

The hospital probably would have just sent him home with no aftercare / assessments in place, if you hadn't asked them.

[Orangeblossom77]

Yes, thank you, that might have been the case. I think sibling felt we should rush in to 'rescue' instead..

another good thing is happening now as the social services place is sharing info with welfare so that should be helpful too
but when I mention that to sibling just get a 'no reply' or a comment that he 'might have to pay it back' (which isn't the case)


I agree with what you are saying and the rushing around 'rescuing' isn't going to help and may even make things worse...

but I guess to sibling it feels uncaring not to...and a challenge to them that I'm dealing with things differently.

I think if they refuse to engage with the support given by social services well, that is their choice and they are fortunate to have it-
especially considering how they turned it down previously.

It's my sibling's choice how they act and their expectations of me, etc about visiting, etc...I just need to let it go now and know I did a good thing, not an 'awful thing' as it seems to be perceived as...I think there seems to be fear around openly having people see dad's hoarding and needing to keep that secret as well, (as of I was 'telling on him") but it was becoming a health risk (he cut himself on hoarded material) - there was talk of him having his home taken away..

But it seems the social services and the housing place is being quite supportive of him / understanding. I often used to get blamed for things in the past so that pattern seems to be repeating. i have had enough of this 'covering up' / drama / rescuing though.

Going to try and let go now, and hope for no further 'episodes' - he gave me as 'next of kin' to the hospital so that was quite stressful with them contacting me etc. My sibling can take on that role in future if they wish

[nanotech]

Yes I think you are right. Yes it's the shining of a light on things that they often are reluctant about.
In my family's case they seemed to think that if mum stayed at home, she simply wouldn't die.
Ostrich - head in sand mentality.
And all the while the parent suffers.
I've had my issues with my mum, but when the views and reactions of those still enmeshed are limited by non-action, us aware ones are the voice of reason.

[Orangeblossom77]

Denial, it can be I think, sounds like that with your mum. Kind thoughts and thank you

[nanotech]

Awww thank you and hugs sent back to you.
There was a mountain of denial going on, and I was seen as a negative influence.
I was hurting too and didn't want mum to go into hospice care.  But that was where we were.
I hope everything turns out okay for you.xxxxxxx

[Orangeblossom77]

Thanks. You did good for your mum, I have done a bit of reading on end of life care and hospice can really help with the symptoms.
Otherwise she might have had more pain and distress. You did a kind thing, a brave thing, to speak up, as I did and it is hurtful to
get blamed for doing so.

[nanotech]

Thank you so much. Yes they were superb. They managed her symptoms within the first hour, and then she was comfortable.
The next morning she was sitting up and chatting.
They supported dad while guiding him toward some beginnings of acceptance. That was a tricky job, but they did it. They could see his denial and very gently, began to ease him away from it.
Dad's own health began to improve as the physical burden of care lessened.
All the time we were coming and going, spending our time with mum.
Thanks again for that validation.
Best wishes and again, well done.

[p123]

Orange - nah you did the right thing here......

As nano says family are a nightmare. They have one opinion and then criticise when things don't go as they plan.

I'm NC with my brother who wouldn't let up about arranging "rotas to help Dad" which I could not do due to family. Came to a head when he tried to say Dad didnt want "strangers" in the house providing care and that ME AND MY WIFE should do this with him on a rota basis. He then abused my wife (who hadn't been involved so far) on facebook telling her what a selfish b*tch she was. Nice.

Rule no 1. Whatever families say ignore and do what suits you.

[nanotech]

Omg yes. I've had the 'rota' thing shoved at me repeatedly. My brother does this when dad gets 'ill' or goes off on a (usually totally uncalled for) visit to the hospital.
I don't entertain it- though I used to say I would help when the time came.
I was in the fog.
Now I'm not going to.
I'll always make sure he's ok, that he has support, is warm, is fed, etc, but I'm not going to be the person who gives it all physically. 
Because it ain't enough for them. You have also to donate blood and tears and your soul. sinks into the quicksand of their hot little hands once more.

First, keep yourself safe. 

It's  not 'selfish' as my enabling sister replied, when, in a weak moment,  I told her I was sticking to the 51 per cent rule re dad.   Nice try sis, but no cigar.

They don't want strangers,  because basically,  the nursing/ caring staff didn't grow up in the family cult and they can't button push or abuse them or make them feel like they are worthless while caring for them!
So that's no fun then! 

No supply, equals no fun. 

Tough! 

[p123]

Omg yes. I've had the 'rota' thing shoved at me repeatedly. My brother does this when dad gets 'ill' or goes off on a (usually totally uncalled for) visit to the hospital.
I don't entertain it- though I used to say I would help when the time came.
I was in the fog.
Now I'm not going to.
I'll always make sure he's ok, that he has support, is warm, is fed, etc, but I'm not going to be the person who gives it all physically. 
Because it ain't enough for them. You have also to donate blood and tears and your soul. sinks into the quicksand of their hot little hands once more.

First, keep yourself safe. 

It's  not 'selfish' as my enabling sister replied, when, in a weak moment,  I told her I was sticking to the 51 per cent rule re dad.   Nice try sis, but no cigar.

They don't want strangers,  because basically,  the nursing/ caring staff didn't grow up in the family cult and they can't button push or abuse them or make them feel like they are worthless while caring for them!
So that's no fun then! 

No supply, equals no fun. 

Tough! 

Yeh the "rota" was last thing my brother and I discussed before I went NC with him. I said No and hes said my wife and were selfish - that was that!

You'll laugh at this. Rota was to go to Dads on a Saturday am, pick up his list of horses walk to the betting shop and put his bet on. He would do it one week then myself and MY WIFE could sort it out amongst ourselves to do our week. His wife visited Dad so mine could "do her part" as well.

I could not stop laughing. Too scared to tell my wife he said that-  it would be like putting a grenade in your toilet cistern, closing the door and walking away!
I said Nope can't do that. I wasnt going to cancel my daughters activities, drive 25 miles each way so he could bet on the horses!

He could have taken his scooter - it was literally 10 mins drive/walk. But he could never be bothered. I did the bet online for him once but he moaned he "didnt want to do it on the internet". Tough then.

Then I got told how selfish we both were!

Same with Dad. He doesn't want "strangers". Even if he allows that he wants them at the house at the time he wants. i.e. breakfast at 9am. He doesnt appreciate that this one person may have 4 or 5 people to visit and not everyone gets 9am.

[nanotech]

That's a ridiculous arrangement.
It's a clever way of hijacking your weekend.
There's a reason for weekends when you work all week. They involve doing FUN things with our non pd family and also taking time for ourselves.
Someone in our family - cousin by marriage- his UNPD dad lent him money for a car. Then he said he could pay it back by helping him with his hobby most Sundays. Long, long hours and long long drives involved. He had a young child and a lovely wife who got sad and lonely because she never saw him at weekends ( he had to work many Saturdays at his job as well )That couple are still together, but only because something happened which changed the financial control his dad had over him -and he stopped giving up his weekends to dad.

Hope you are OK Orangeblossom. It's really hard work sometimes, dealing with the PDs in our lives.
That word, 'selfish' gets bandied about a lot, by PDs and their flying monkeys.  It used to press my guilt buttons but it just doesn't any more. We ought not to respond to it, ever.
They use it like a Golden Ticket or a Get Out Of Jail Free card.
They think they can just play that card, and then we will feel terrible and rush to serve their every need.

[p123]

That's a ridiculous arrangement.
It's a clever way of hijacking your weekend.
There's a reason for weekends when you work all week. They involve doing FUN things with our non pd family and also taking time for ourselves.
Someone in our family - cousin by marriage- his UNPD dad lent him money for a car. Then he said he could pay it back by helping him with his hobby most Sundays. Long, long hours and long long drives involved. He had a young child and a lovely wife who got sad and lonely because she never saw him at weekends ( he had to work many Saturdays at his job as well )That couple are still together, but only because something happened which changed the financial control his dad had over him -and he stopped giving up his weekends to dad.

Hope you are OK Orangeblossom. It's really hard work sometimes, dealing with the PDs in our lives.
That word, 'selfish' gets bandied about a lot, by PDs and their flying monkeys.  It used to press my guilt buttons but it just doesn't any more. We ought not to respond to it, ever.
They use it like a Golden Ticket or a Get Out Of Jail Free card.
They think they can just play that card, and then we will feel terrible and rush to serve their every need.

Good for you nano. I was the same - I hated being called selfish. Now I dont care -they can all do one lol.

OMG - I can imagine how bad it would be to borrow money. Dad tries that now to rope me in.

Like a lot of people I work all week, wife works most of the week but works weekends sometimes (shes a District Nurse). So some weekends its just me taking our 6 year old, sometimes we do get weekends together BUT its always hectic. I'm sure Dad thinks I get up, sit there and watch TV all day Saturday and Sunday!

He always wants to know my timetable - know full well so he can see a chink he can latch onto for "the visit". Sundays my daughter does ice skating. 745am start (and its 30 mins drive). We get out of there by 11am ish. Of course Dad then think that sunday pm is then his time! Its another 30 mins drive to his, then 30 mins drive home. Sometimes he wants "go for a run in the car" - Jeez Ive been up since 630!

Of course, see my other thread . I dont miss these car rides since "pee gate".

[nanotech]

Awww P123  I love that you get up so early to take her ice skating! 
Think your dad may feel envious of that.   
I'm currently waiting to be called selfish for not attending the recent family birthday
( nightmare) meal with 4 UNNPD/ BPD family there. 
Due to my being ill ( I was) we couldn't take dad out on our own a few days later either.
This week we are mad busy with the grandkids ( half term).
I got a phone call today. He knew what was happening this week but he didn't ask about the grandkids- he wanted to talk about himself. He didn't even ask to speak to great granddaughter, who had just arrived, and whom I hadn't seen since Christmas. ( son  and her mum are split up, and she lives at the other end of the UK from us.
Luckily, things are convivial. My son sees her a lot, and brings her to see us as well in the holidays.
We used to go down to her area to see her, more when she was small and it was hard for her travel distances, but she's 9  now and for the last few years son goes and brings her up to us as then she gets to see her cousins and aunties and uncles too.
My dad never asks to see her. He doesn't invite us to his home when he knows we have her.  This is so typical of him.
He's sort of 'sans feelings' if you know what I mean.
I think my mum trained him into appearing caring. It must have been that, because there's an echo where his heart should be.
He'd be mortified if he read this, and he would deny it vehemently.
He can talk about love, but he can't show it. I've seen him show fondness for me now and again. I've seen a kind of fondness. That's as deep as it goes.  Plus he adored my mum. My mum and his relationship was  very close and very symbiotic. When mum died he was angry more than anything else.
Apologies,  I've gone on a bit here. I do hope I've not hijacked the thread.
Orangeblossom, please don't take account of the views of your siblings. They don't matter.
They really aren't logical or authentic.

[p123]

Awww P123  I love that you get up so early to take her ice skating! 
Think your dad may feel envious of that.   
I'm currently waiting to be called selfish for not attending the recent family birthday
( nightmare) meal with 4 UNNPD/ BPD family there. 
Due to my being ill ( I was) we couldn't take dad out on our own a few days later either.
This week we are mad busy with the grandkids ( half term).
I got a phone call today. He knew what was happening this week but he didn't ask about the grandkids- he wanted to talk about himself. He didn't even ask to speak to great granddaughter, who had just arrived, and whom I hadn't seen since Christmas. ( son  and her mum are split up, and she lives at the other end of the UK from us.
Luckily, things are convivial. My son sees her a lot, and brings her to see us as well in the holidays.
We used to go down to her area to see her, more when she was small and it was hard for her travel distances, but she's 9  now and for the last few years son goes and brings her up to us as then she gets to see her cousins and aunties and uncles too.
My dad never asks to see her. He doesn't invite us to his home when he knows we have her.  This is so typical of him.
He's sort of 'sans feelings' if you know what I mean.
I think my mum trained him into appearing caring. It must have been that, because there's an echo where his heart should be.
He'd be mortified if he read this, and he would deny it vehemently.
He can talk about love, but he can't show it. I've seen him show fondness for me now and again. I've seen a kind of fondness. That's as deep as it goes.  Plus he adored my mum. My mum and his relationship was  very close and very symbiotic. When mum died he was angry more than anything else.
Apologies,  I've gone on a bit here. I do hope I've not hijacked the thread.
Orangeblossom, please don't take account of the views of your siblings. They don't matter.
They really aren't logical or authentic.

Ha ha sometimes its 715am for a lesson. And we're 30 mins drive away! It is a killer but she loves it.
Wife is happy when shes working on sundays because she gets a lie in (although she does get up to get her ready to go) and leaves the house at 859am for 9am start!

Yep Dad hates it. I always get the impression its a case of "you can go out of your way for her but not me".

My Dads the same. Completely disinterested in his grandchildren. All he sees them as is a block of my time. Its so obvious. He is so self obsessed with what he needs its all about access to me and what he needs me to do for him.

I dont tell him I'm ill any more if I am. All it leads to is constant asking if I'm ok now. Not in caring way but more, its just so obvious, his only concern is whether I'm ok to visit him. He still going on about my bad back - which has been fine since before xmas. Its scared him to death that I might not be able to drive over to mollycoddle him.

It takes time though when family are telling you that you need to look after elderly parents. It took me years. It took a few major, obvious things to happen before it all fell into place and I finally saw and thought "hang on this is not right".

Now, I'm same as you, they can all get stuffed and do what they want...

[Orangeblossom77]

Oh no the rotas sound a nightmare 

Thankfully I moved over 700 miles away so can't be bossed into a 'rota' however had the same stuff about them not wanting the external help...

Another thing i am finding from siblings (and their wife) is a lot of chat about their feelings (the parents) saying things like 'they still love you' (in spite of NC) but nothing about my feelings...

They also sent me an article about NCin which the person regrets it and finds it hard, makes them worse etc (helpful)

Kind of co-dependant I guess. For example I mentioned my dad's hoarding behaviour is making me anxious...was met with 'and you never called him". Guilt inducing. And 'it might help make him happy to visit'

No, his hoarding is causing the problems and me calling him wouldn't have helped it. I guess it is all about getting you back in line.

I guess they copy / get stuff from the parents and can't cope when others deal with stuff differently. Kind thoughts to all of us dealing with it.

[p123]

Awww P123  I love that you get up so early to take her ice skating! 
Think your dad may feel envious of that.   
I'm currently waiting to be called selfish for not attending the recent family birthday
( nightmare) meal with 4 UNNPD/ BPD family there. 
Due to my being ill ( I was) we couldn't take dad out on our own a few days later either.
This week we are mad busy with the grandkids ( half term).
I got a phone call today. He knew what was happening this week but he didn't ask about the grandkids- he wanted to talk about himself. He didn't even ask to speak to great granddaughter, who had just arrived, and whom I hadn't seen since Christmas. ( son  and her mum are split up, and she lives at the other end of the UK from us.
Luckily, things are convivial. My son sees her a lot, and brings her to see us as well in the holidays.
We used to go down to her area to see her, more when she was small and it was hard for her travel distances, but she's 9  now and for the last few years son goes and brings her up to us as then she gets to see her cousins and aunties and uncles too.
My dad never asks to see her. He doesn't invite us to his home when he knows we have her.  This is so typical of him.
He's sort of 'sans feelings' if you know what I mean.
I think my mum trained him into appearing caring. It must have been that, because there's an echo where his heart should be.
He'd be mortified if he read this, and he would deny it vehemently.
He can talk about love, but he can't show it. I've seen him show fondness for me now and again. I've seen a kind of fondness. That's as deep as it goes.  Plus he adored my mum. My mum and his relationship was  very close and very symbiotic. When mum died he was angry more than anything else.
Apologies,  I've gone on a bit here. I do hope I've not hijacked the thread.
Orangeblossom, please don't take account of the views of your siblings. They don't matter.
They really aren't logical or authentic.

See my other post about Dad today trying to tell me to stop taking her because its too early in the morning! In other words, how dare you ever be too tired to put me first....
Unreal.

[p123]

Oh no the rotas sound a nightmare 

Thankfully I moved over 700 miles away so can't be bossed into a 'rota' however had the same stuff about them not wanting the external help...

Another thing i am finding from siblings (and their wife) is a lot of chat about their feelings (the parents) saying things like 'they still love you' (in spite of NC) but nothing about my feelings...

They also sent me an article about NCin which the person regrets it and finds it hard, makes them worse etc (helpful)

Kind of co-dependant I guess. For example I mentioned my dad's hoarding behaviour is making me anxious...was met with 'and you never called him". Guilt inducing. And 'it might help make him happy to visit'

No, his hoarding is causing the problems and me calling him wouldn't have helped it. I guess it is all about getting you back in line.

I guess they copy / get stuff from the parents and can't cope when others deal with stuff differently. Kind thoughts to all of us dealing with it.

700 miles - the ideal distance!

I often wonder whats the best "narc parent exclusion zone" distance. Of course, too close and they'll want you there every day. Medium far and they still want you to visit all the time, but its a PITA for you and they don't care (like me its 25 miles each way so each visit is like minimum 2 hours of my time). Further and I guess you'll end with major grief off them!

[Orangeblossom77]

Yes, the problem is further away they can want to come and actually stay with you which can be tricky. We have such a small place so have to say no to that also which doesn't go down well 

However yes is easier in terms of them just popping round or the like. It is still there in your head though. If you know what I mean. Mine live in a place with good social care which is annoying if they won't use it.