New and need help

[sillydancer]

I am new here and I apologize I haven't posted to the welcome mat first.  I am not in a very good space right now and I could use some immediate help.
Not sure if I should post this here or in spouses, please move if appropriate.

My MIL has done a number of things to me/against me that I have brought up with my husband.  It causes quite a bit of strife, all of this has been going on since before we were married, more than 25 years.  For all of these years I have been told many different things in response to the hurtful things she has done - for example: you're too sensitive, you're a drama queen, she didn't mean it that way, you think you're better than my family, you look for things to get mad about, (behavior) was no big deal, why can't you just let it go, be the better person, you're imagining things, and on and on...

All of the invalidation over the years and the fights have really questioned my sanity.  I am so confident in what I believe, but then when we get in these arguments I am left confused and and start to question if what he counters with in these fights is true.   Somehow his mother's behavior becomes my fault, she did nothing wrong, or he has no recollection of me bringing up an issue previously when I know for a fact I have brought it up.  And also that I am the abnormal one and  I have ruined his relationship with his mother and the rest of his family because of all of this.

So, for now, I am looking for someone to tell me that these things are not normal behavior:
Attempted to violate my HIPAA rights, twice
She does not respect my rules regarding our children
She goes around trashing me to everyone
She likes to know our business and tells it to everyone the minute she knows

Those last 2 she does to pretty much everyone in the family, to be fair.  I could list other things but I feel I will get more depressed if I continue on.

I am so heartbroken over this.  I have tried for so many years to get my husband to see this.  It is like talking to a brick wall.  I have never felt safe, and have been told I am the cause of all his problems and I am a horrible wife.  Am I?   I don't understand how he cannot see how much she has hurt me over the years.  Yet on the very rare occasion when I have stood up for myself to her, she literally cried to my husband about it at his work and he called me immediately and was angry with me that I made her cry.  Where is the anger that she has made me cry time and again?  I feel so alone and I feel like I am the crazy one. 

I need to know I am not crazy.  Or please tell me I am, so I can get help.

[qcdlvl]

No, you don't sound crazy, and I'm sorry you've been going through this. Unfortunately I think your real problem is your husband, not your MIL - it sounds basically like she's the lead abuser and he's her co-abuser. When he married you, by doing so he was making a commitment to put you first, that you were his primary family now, and he has failed to live up to that.

[Adria]

Sillydancer,

No, you are not the one. No you are not crazy. She is triangulating you with her and your husband. 

I lived like this for many years until one time my MIL stayed at our house for a visit for three weeks. At the end of the long abusive visit, dh's light went on. He said, "Oh, my gosh! I now see what my mother has been doing all these years.  I have been siding with my mother and treating you like her as well."  I about fell over after 25 years of it.

You might find Jerry Wise videos on Family Systems interesting.  My dh watched them with me reluctantly, but now is hooked on this man's videos.  He has made great changes in our marriage from these situations. 

Your MIL knows how to work your dh against you and your marriage. It is a terrible and terrifying way to live.  Your dh probably doesn't know how to handle it without upsetting the family system, so blames you because it is easier that way. 

I have also printed some of the posts from the forum when I asked these kinds of questions, and asked my husband to read them, so he could see it from another perspective instead of from an upset wife.  That has helped as well.  Your MIL is making you feel trapped one way, and your husband feel trapped another way, so you can't find a way to be on the same page.  Your husband needs to side with his wife, and learn to put up boundaries with his mother while still being respectful and kind.  It can be done. It just takes practice and knowledge. 

[sillydancer]

Check out this video by Jerry Wise on Family Systems and emotional triangulation.  My dh watched it with me reluctantly, but now is hooked on this man's videos.  He has made great changes in our marriage from these situations. 

Your MIL knows how to work your dh against you and your marriage. It is a terrible and terrifying way to live.  Your dh probably doesn't know how to handle it without upsetting the family system, so blames you because it is easier that way. 

I have also printed some of the posts from the forum when I asked these kinds of questions, and asked my husband to read them, so he could see it from another perspective instead of from an upset wife.  That has helped as well.  Your MIL is making you feel trapped one way, and your husband feel trapped another way, so you can't find a way to be on the same page.  Your husband needs to side with his wife, and learn to put up boundaries with his mother while still being respectful and kind.  It can be done. It just takes practice and knowledge.

Thank you for suggesting the video, I will watch it myself.  But I am 99.9% sure DH will not watch nor will he look at others' responses.  If I present it to him he will say I am trying to change his mind or control him regarding his mother. 

I definitely think it's easier to blame me.  He has said in the past things along the lines of he can reason with me, and he can't with her.  The family can use guilt and shame if you don't fall in line with what they expect you to do.  I think he likes the path of least resistance and that is me.  And I am resisting hard, so you can imagine the resistance his mother would be putting up.

[Adria]

Sillydancer,

I just watched that video again.  Not the one I was thinking.  Check out his videos on family systems and enmeshment where parents and siblings are concerned.  Don't know which ones right off the top of my head, but they are good. 

I hope your dh comes around.  From the things he says, it sounds like he can see it, but doesn't know how to cope.  Maybe if he realizes it will smooth out his marriage, he will reconsider. Oooh. . .the MIL's!!!

[sillydancer]

No, you don't sound crazy, and I'm sorry you've been going through this. Unfortunately I think your real problem is your husband, not your MIL - it sounds basically like she's the lead abuser and he's her co-abuser. When he married you, by doing so he was making a commitment to put you first, that you were his primary family now, and he has failed to live up to that.

Thank you for the validation.  I never thought of the abuser/co-abuser aspect.  With the HIPAA violation attempts, I specifically asked him if he felt that she was right to do that.  I was dumbfounded when he defended her by saying that I had to have made it up and that also, if she DID do it, it was because she cares about me.  This woman has never cared about me, you can tell by her actions.  I didn't have any health issues, and why wouldn't she just ask me directly about my health instead of trying to pump my doctors for information about me?  To make matters worse, years before this happened, she worked at a hospital and looked in the medical records of another family member.  She got a slap on the wrist from the hospital for doing it.  DH to this day defends her actions for even that one.  It terrified me at the time because my medical records were at that institution as well, and while I didn't have anything of significance in my medical records back then, the fact that she could have looked at it and had knowledge of my personal business is very frightening to me.  Anything she found would have been quickly disseminated to all and sundry. 

The worst part of that whole thing was that her doctors were garbage, and I persuaded her to switch to two of mine because they were excellent doctors and I felt she would benefit from them.  And that was how I got paid back.

[sillydancer]

Thanks Adria.  I took a quick look at some of the titles and there are a bunch I feel may be able to help me grow personally.

[Pepin]

Your MIL knows how to work your dh against you and your marriage. It is a terrible and terrifying way to live.  Your dh probably doesn't know how to handle it without upsetting the family system, so blames you because it is easier that way. 

This.  My DH is in the same situation....doesn't want to upset that delicate family system that PDmil has carefully groomed him to uphold.  I have been with DH for 25 years and like you, I am disgusted with the situation.  If my DH could see the light, everything would change.  If I treated him the way he treats me with the relationship he has with his mother, would he think I am worth sticking around for?  I think my DH would bolt. 

Though lately I have come to some other realizations.  PDmil isn't the only PD.  DH's siblings are no picnic either, which explains why he doesn't have a nice relationship with them.  But, he would never admit that to me.  It would be embarrassing....though I find it strange since I have shared everything about my dysfunctional upbringing.  I've been NC with NF for 12 years and one of those reasons includes protecting DH.  I've been threatened with being removed from the Will....and I really don't care at this point.  DH on the other hand....would like to stay in his mother's Will since as executor, it means making sure he gets his fair share.     But, I don't think that the way DH has behaved toward me has been fair if that is his ultimate goal...and who knows, maybe he is just too embarrassed to admit this.  But considering that he has many times urged me to reconcile with NF for the sake of me inheriting raises a lot of questions about DH's motivations with regards to money.  For me, I have to be very careful.   

[sillydancer]

Pepin, you are so right.  If my DH admitted to even a quarter of the stuff I had issues with, our marriage would have been so much different.  But none of the issues were ever due to her behavior, just mine.   I told him many times, if you'd have ever thrown me a crumb, I probably wouldn't be reacting the way I do.  If he would have said something like, yeah my mother is dead wrong, she shouldn't have done XXX to you.  I'm sorry.  But I am too afraid of making her mad/upsetting the family/whatever to do anything about it.  I think that's really what gets me the most.  He IS afraid, and is using me as the reason instead. 

[Alexmom]

You are not crazy, and I am sorry you are dealing with this.   Having been down a similar path, I understand how unsupported you must feel in that your H is choosing to ignore, deny, or just go with the program so as to not upset Mommy Dearest, rather than take action to deal with his mom's bad behavior and protect you from it. 

Have you taken steps to minimize the time you spend with your MIL and her involvement in your life?     

[sillydancer]

Alexmom,

About 5 years ago, I put her on limited contact based upon something she did to me.  When she'd call I'd give her very little information.    3 years ago I basically went no contact except for if she came to visit or we were at the same family function.  I would be polite (say hello, ask if she needed a drink, etc)  but would not have a conversation with her.   When she calls, I do not pick up the phone and speak with her.   

I have asked my husband not to share details about me at all, or about my or our kids' personal or health information.  Honestly I don't want him talking about the kids at all because she uses information to hurt people and I want to protect my kids and myself from that.  He says she has every right to know everything about her grandchildren.  She tells family and friends about others' private parts, what medications they are on, things they've failed at, and anything else she finds talk-worthy.   That is not normal nor loving behavior, is it?  DH disagrees.

I thought limiting contact would really help but maybe I am not using it correctly.  The problems are still there, nothing's changed.  My husband doesn't see anything different and says he has to walk around on eggshells and I have destroyed his relationship with his family.   

[Maisey]

I thought limiting contact would really help but maybe I am not using it correctly.  The problems are still there, nothing's changed.  My husband doesn't see anything different and says he has to walk around on eggshells and I have destroyed his relationship with his family.

Probably not that you aren't using LC correctly, but that MIL is relentless.

Its your husband's responsibility to maintain his relationship with his family.  If  a good relationship hinges on his mother's ability to mistreat a person (you), then your husband is wandering around in EnablerLand.  Its a tough situation, as many on this forum can attest to.

I don't have any advise to help you get thru to your husband. In the end, I had to use the "E" word straight out, but I wish I had been successful by other avenues.

M

[roughdiamonds1]

He says she has every right to know everything about her grandchildren.  She tells family and friends about others' private parts, what medications they are on, things they've failed at, and anything else she finds talk-worthy.   That is not normal nor loving behavior, is it?  DH disagrees.

Hi sillydancer, I think this sounds a little on the side of obsessive behaviour from your MIL. That's stuff that she doesn't need to concern herself with. But the point is that if you're uncomfortable with it, and you've said you don't want it to happen any more, then your boundaries need to be respected by both your husband and your MIL. If they are repeatedly disrespecting your boundaries then of course you're going to feel stressed about it. You're not crazy. You just want healthy boundaries, and you're absolutely entitled to them.

Limited contact is most likely not working because your DH is not backing you up... it's one message from him and another from you. So it's important to try and get on the same page. How you do that is the tough part, because it sounds like you've already had lots of conversations and they don't go your way at all. Could you try some counselling?

In the meantime, please accept these comments as validation that you are not crazy, you are entitled to ask for things to be different that you don't like, and you absolutely deserve your boundaries to be respected, and you deserve to be backed up by your partner.

[treesgrowslowly]

You're not crazy. You're in a triangulated relationship. Its not actually healthy for any of the people involved, but you're the one who sees that. Probably because you will never be trauma bonded to her - and he is.

I am sorry you have spent so much time arguing with him about these things. It sounds like she is dependent on him for narc supply.

Going LC in your situation would create constant tension because you're trying to have boundaries that he doesn't support.

I am sorry to say this but blaming you for the tension is his choice. The tension isn't because you need boundaries, the tension is because she has a dependency on him. He's creating tension in your life and boundaries are part of the toolbox here on this website because they are healthy and necessary for life.

You're entitled to boundaries. How much time and attention you give someone is your right. Especially in a family. It is how we teach the next generation those skills that they will need for their life.

You are not crazy.

Trees

[bloomie]

Sillydancer - adding a warm welcome to you and support. You are in a very tough and discombobulating situation. Right now, just read and absorb the posts and information at the drop down menus above. Listen to podcasts and vids that can be found in our Other Media Resources Board here: https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?board=45.0

For me to really begin to recover myself I needed a therapist who was focused on me for the first time in my life... not my marriage - I needed help unpacking decades worth of invalidation and manipulations, and processing targeting toxic and malevolent behaviors toward me where I was mainly unsupported by my own DH who was deeply in the FOG. I also needed the support of a very few trusted friends, this support group and all of the tools and resources and conversations here, books, vids, and connecting in prayer with my higher power. A very good starting place is to read Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend.

We can get distance and go LC, but if there is still the threat of this dividing you and your DH and causing continued harm to your heart the internal boundaries and emotional distance is nearly impossible to gain. This is essentially an atmosphere of risk that you are constantly living in and that is incredibly stressful.

Keep reading. Keep coming back and sharing. Reaching out here is a very important first step in your healing journey! We get it. We understand. And we are here for you!

[sparrow2]

I'm sorry you're going through this. It sounds like gaslighting. You don't sound crazy. I think you'd benefit from a therapist so you have someone on your team.