When self-advocacy causes anxiety

[biggerfish]

Since then, partly I've been anxious about whether I might indeed have a serious underlying condition and partly I've felt as though I'm overreacting by feeling anxious.  This morning, the thought popped into my head, "Hey, maybe it's okay and normal to be worried when a doctor says I might have a serious condition." But I still feel as though I don't "deserve" to worry. 

Poison Ivy, I hear ya. And part of the worry, at least for me, would be about my "performance" for the coming appointments, and how my anxiety will be perceived. You and I need to keep telling ourselves to stop judging ourselves. 
I hope it all turns out to be okay.

[biggerfish]

I don't avoid self-advocacy either.  But I feel kind of ashamed of engaging in it.  (I know, I shouldn't.  This is definitely a "Working on Us" topic for me!)

Yes! That's it! I feel shame.

I hate feelings. I am now actively chasing the shame away. It's easier now that I have the word for it.

[biggerfish]

I'm all in, like a mama bear.

LOL. I'm a mam bear too, Amadahy. We are reteaching ourselves right now in this thread that our needs are valuable and that we can advocate for ourselves

[biggerfish]

3 years ago, before I left my uPDex, I used to dissociate when I had to advocate for myself or my kids. My fear would overwhelm me but my request had to be done, so my feelings would shut off and I'd just rely on facts to get our needs met. Yes, it worked but there was a residual effect afterwards. I'd remain dissociated for the rest of the day (I didn't have any coping skills at the time) and could easily be overwhelmed, upset or stressed out by anything. I'd remain on edge for the rest of the day or longer. It was not a good way to live.

D.Dan, I think I might be doing this dissociating, but I don't really know what it is, and I think I might not be as self-aware of it as you are. Where can I learn more about this? My emotional recovery takes a few days, and I would love for it to take just an hour or two.

[biggerfish]

It's a combo of calming and distraction. I try to avoid getting to far into my head after these things because that's like that saying of "going down the rabbit hole" and once you start it's hard to stop.

And a little bit of chocolate too.

This advice might seem obvious to some, but not to me! The combo of distraction and calming makes so much sense now that you said it. And I am now actively avoiding the rabbit hole. Words help me so much. Oh and chocolate helps too. 

[biggerfish]

I'm really grateful for this topic and thread.

Sweetbriar, me too. I am so grateful to all of you who are so willing to share and help. This thread is keeping me on an even keel this week.

[biggerfish]

...though it earns me a lot of flack.

I too have to work on this. I like the idea of planned recovery (and chocolate to recover from dementors lol).

I got so much flack advocating for my kids that I became a hated figure in their school district and within the Board of Education. I did things that made the newspapers. So yeah, I like that word "flack."

And I agree that I like this idea of "planned recovery." We all keep learning, don't we.

[biggerfish]

I also envy people who breeze through things i loathe.  I do keep after it though. 

Spygirl, I like this reminder that just because it's easier for other people, doesn't mean we can't do it too. It takes diligence, as you said.

[biggerfish]

when speaking out against poor treatment

ingenting, you just put into words what I was advocating about. I felt that I (and a few other people) were being treated poorly. THANKS!

[D.Dan]

My kids are 8,10, and 13 and all 3 are on the autism spectrum. All 3 are unique in their abilities and needs so usually I have to advocate for 3 different things at the same time.

3 years ago, before I left my uPDex, I used to dissociate when I had to advocate for myself or my kids. My fear would overwhelm me but my request had to be done, so my feelings would shut off and I'd just rely on facts to get our needs met. Yes, it worked but there was a residual effect afterwards. I'd remain dissociated for the rest of the day (I didn't have any coping skills at the time) and could easily be overwhelmed, upset or stressed out by anything. I'd remain on edge for the rest of the day or longer. It was not a good way to live.

D.Dan, I think I might be doing this dissociating, but I don't really know what it is, and I think I might not be as self-aware of it as you are. Where can I learn more about this? My emotional recovery takes a few days, and I would love for it to take just an hour or two.

It was actually my counsellor that informed me I was dissociating. There are a lots of articles when you google them but I don't know which would help best.

As I understand it, Dissociation is a disconnection from yourself. (your body, mind, emotions, your reality) I disconnect from my emotions so I don't feel them in that moment. I remember everything that is occurring at that time, with a mild feeling that I'm watching it happen to someone else like it's really not my body, not really happening to me. (these are also symptoms of dissociation)

I used to think dissociation was not remembering things after the fact, like a disconnection from reality. I thought that it didn't apply to me because I could remember what I did long after the fact. But no, that's just one of many symptoms.

It's a combo of calming and distraction. I try to avoid getting to far into my head after these things because that's like that saying of "going down the rabbit hole" and once you start it's hard to stop.

And a little bit of chocolate too.

This advice might seem obvious to some, but not to me! The combo of distraction and calming makes so much sense now that you said it. And I am now actively avoiding the rabbit hole. Words help me so much. Oh and chocolate helps too. 

It wasn't obvious to me either. I'm mentally and emotionally tripping over coping skills that work for me.

What I really noticed, was that the tactics I used for my kids to help them stay calm or to deescalate from a high emotional state during difficult times also seemed to work for me, so I decided to start using them for myself too. 

[Seven]

It's often would cry when I self-advocate.  When I say often, I mean every time. I would never speak up much and when I did, I'd cry.  It wasn't like me to verbally defend myself or my thoughts, so when I did do it I felt guilty and cried.  I was also the type to just sit there and "take it" until I could finally take no more, and that would be the end.  Man, I really wonder what happened in my life to make me be that way.  Was it the "children should be seen and not heard" mantra that made me scared to voice my thoughts and opinions?  Or possibly something else.  Being the "baby" of the family, I felt I was never heard or had not experienced enough in life as my much older sibs to be able to hold any type of meaningful conversation.

Now,  not so much.  Now, I'm just the "boat rocker" when it comes to dealing with my uNPD mother. Rope has been dropped. They know why, but they don't think the punishment (VVVvLC)  fits the crime (too many to name).

[biggerfish]

Now,  not so much.  Now, I'm just the "boat rocker" when it comes to dealing with my uNPD mother. Rope has been dropped. They know why, but they don't think the punishment (VVVvLC)  fits the crime (too many to name).

Love this. Let me shout this from the rooftops: We can change! We just have to apply ourselves over and over until it turns into a new habit.

[Oscen]

Hi Biggerfish, I know what you mean; it's not just not being able to stand up for yourself, but when you do, not feeling good about it afterwards. I call it a "hangover" too.

I’ll share the resources that have helped me. Of course, make up your own mind whether  it applies to you or you want to try any of it.

The only resource that I found to specifically address this was Richard Grannon.
He talks about the importance of taking self-interested action (self-advocacy) in moving out of what he calls "toxic passivity", aka, people pleasing, codependence, fawn response, etc.

The idea is that people who aren't used to self-advocacy will go into an emotional flashback when they do stand up for themselves, because of the toxic conditioning from childhood - like what D.Dan said about dissociating.

Emotional flashbacks (EFs) are triggered by intense stress like interpersonal conflict, and create a trauma response. There are four main responses, called the “four Fs” - fight, flight, freeze and fawn.
Dissociation = freeze. You might find you’re also “fawning” - doing people-pleaser things, like apologising to avid conflict, etc.

While we’re in an EF, we’re in an altered emotional state. We’re not functioning at our best, and feel quite unhappy. We’re focused on survival, not living life to the full with emotional connection, etc. I know I have emotional flashbacks after conflict/standing up for myself, and it could very well explain the low feeling you have for several days.

It's worth looking at emotional flashbacks - have you read Pete Walker's "Complex PTSD - from Surviving to Thriving?” His website’s good, too, and free:
http://pete-walker.com/13StepsManageFlashbacks.htm

And there’s a great free course for stopping emotional flashbacks - Richard Grannon again:
https://spartanlifecoach.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/HOW-TO-STOP-AN-EMOTIONAL-FLASHBACK-2018-V4.pdf

The course is a hand mnemonic, about 1 minute long, repeated 5 times a day. It works in 2 ways:
1) because you are effectively saying affirmations, 5 times a day, which can reprogram your subconscious to support you more in life.
One of the affirmations is “I can say no with a smile” - imagine how you’d feel about standing up for yourself if that belief displaced any idea you might have that it is wrong to rock the boat.
2) because you are calling attention to your emotional state 5 times a day. This gradually builds awareness of when you are, and when you aren’t, in an emotional flashback, and then with awareness comes options for dealing with it.

I started doing it in October and saw results within the first week.
I’m still recovering and still doing the hand mnemonic, and I believe it is helping me a lot.
Last week someone cut in line at the supermarket and I stood up for myself without even thinking,  effortlessly, gracefully, and with no emotional fallout. This would have been impossible for me a year ago.

Hope this helps, all the best.