How can he not see the truth in his own words?

[Pepin]

Lately DH has been an ear for one of his friends who is going through a difficult time with their mother.  The friend is the main caregiver just as DH is to PDmil. 

DH has been extremely vocal to me about what he has told his friend and also about what he tells me that he hasn't told his friend.  DH is worried that his friend might think that DH is being harsh but DH is actually being pragmatic....his friend usually replies with excuses as to why DH's advice won't work.

The information that I am getting from DH about his friend and the negative relationship he has with his mother triggers me to see the glaring parallels with DH and his own mother.  Often I want to stop DH in the middle of his rants about his friend and tell DH that he is behaving the same way about his own mother.  I am fighting against everything inside me to be quiet about this.

It seems that the biggest part of the conversations is about caretaking responsibilities.  Both DH and his friend feel that they have no one else to turn to but themselves when it comes to their mothers.  However, DH is quick to point out that his friend needs to hire someone or to move his friend's mother to an assisted living center.  The friend's mother wants NONE of this and has become more demanding during a major decline in health. 

The same thing is happening with DH and PDmil.  In reality, she should not be living at home as it is unsafe and she is alone - and her health is also declining.  She doesn't want to leave and she doesn't want help.  She wants DH to do it.  Of course DH complies...he complies and he tells his friend not to comply with his their own mother by being a caregiver.

I am worried that one of these days I am going to blow and tell DH to follow his own advice that he offers to his friend!  I just cannot take hearing these "problems" anymore.  When DH talks about his friend he gets so amped up and frustrated -- which is exactly how I feel on the inside about DH and his mother.

I have resigned myself to staying out of it because his mother is not my mother and therefore NOT my problem.  But this is so hard for our marriage....DH is like my other half and what he goes through, I go through, too.  I want to help him see the light but I know that technically I cannot do this.  But what I would like to do is to really have him sit and think about his words of advice that he offers his friend and see if he can understand that he is living the exact same situation. 

The reality is that both these "mothers" need caregivers other than their sons; that they spend their days watching TV and sleeping; they need help with MD visits and food shopping as they don't drive; these "mothers" need care that their sons just cannot give in addition to full time jobs and caring for themselves and their own families. 

How does one draw that line?  And when is enough, enough?   

[Phoenix Rising]

If it were me, I would just say what I was thinking in a non-abusive way because yes, if one holds it in for too long, they will blow up. I have been struggling where you are right now and it's so much easier to give advice when it is not your situation. In my situation with DH, I just told him and I was pleasantly surprised at how he actually admitted that he also felt the same way I was feeling with MIL conflict.

To answer your question... it sounds too simple but boundaries - having them and sticking to them is how one draws the line

[Leonor]

Yeah, it's  .

But what if you mentioned something in a wondering kind of way?

"Yes, that is a difficult situation. Why do you think your friend responds that way?"

"I hear your frustration. Sometimes it's hard to see what's really going on when you're in the middle of it though, huh?"

"Gee, honey, I can't help thinking that your friend's situation sounds familiar, doesn't it?"

Of course your dh will most likely respond with defensiveness or why he is different or his mom is not at all like his friend's mom! Or how *you* turn everything into a big deal about *his* mom when he's trying to tell you about his friend and you are not listening and don't get it blah blah blah.

But I think that maybe your dh is venting to you about his friend because he does sense the similarity and it may be safer for him to air his feelings about his mom indirectly -- I can't imagine it was ever safe for him to say anything critical about his mom and he may not know how to access, let alone process, those feelings now. The situation with his friend is triggering him and you are a safe person for him to express his feelings. Maybe by remaining open to that, he will take that small first step Out of the FOG.

[Pepin]

Yeah, it's  .

But what if you mentioned something in a wondering kind of way?

"Yes, that is a difficult situation. Why do you think your friend responds that way?"

"I hear your frustration. Sometimes it's hard to see what's really going on when you're in the middle of it though, huh?"

"Gee, honey, I can't help thinking that your friend's situation sounds familiar, doesn't it?"

Of course your dh will most likely respond with defensiveness or why he is different or his mom is not at all like his friend's mom! Or how *you* turn everything into a big deal about *his* mom when he's trying to tell you about his friend and you are not listening and don't get it blah blah blah.

But I think that maybe your dh is venting to you about his friend because he does sense the similarity and it may be safer for him to air his feelings about his mom indirectly -- I can't imagine it was ever safe for him to say anything critical about his mom and he may not know how to access, let alone process, those feelings now. The situation with his friend is triggering him and you are a safe person for him to express his feelings. Maybe by remaining open to that, he will take that small first step Out of the FOG.

Thank you, Leonor!  I agree with everything you said.  I just want to be able to say something that would give DH pause to really think about what is going on and how there are similarities.  Absolutely, I believe there is truth in that how DH is responding to his friend venting is exactly what DH wishes he himself could do!  For whatever reason, DH likely hasn't had a safe place to say anything about his mother....some small bits and pieces here and there, but he mostly follows it up with an excuse because he genuinely feels bad for her being the way that she is. 

I wish I had a better way to respond to him rather than just listening and acknowledging what he says.  Perhaps since I am NC with NF and have no sympathy for NF, DH is afraid to open up to me.  DH feels that my being NC is very black and white....what he doesn't understand is that it took a lot of gray to get to that decision, so therefore the final decision seems very one sided.  If it were me in DH's shoes, I would probably walk away like I did with NF....because I couldn't take the abuse anymore.  I guess DH is still in a position to keep getting abuse dished on his plate....just like his friend is with his  mom.  Not gonna hide this either but both are financially motivated....*sigh*  As for me, I'm written out of NF's will for sure....and some days this is a sad thing to think about.   

[Pepin]

If it were me, I would just say what I was thinking in a non-abusive way because yes, if one holds it in for too long, they will blow up. I have been struggling where you are right now and it's so much easier to give advice when it is not your situation. In my situation with DH, I just told him and I was pleasantly surprised at how he actually admitted that he also felt the same way I was feeling with MIL conflict.

To answer your question... it sounds too simple but boundaries - having them and sticking to them is how one draws the line

Yes....I want to give DH advice, too....but somehow it just seems like what I would say would hurt him to the core...obviously he has a hand in it by allowing himself to continue to be abused by PDMil....because he doesn't know how to speak up without recourse.  She's an old woman who has become terribly helpless at her own doing.  She literally has no one else....the other siblings really don't contribute anything nor are they motivated to.  One sibling thinks PDmil is lazy....the other has an extremely full plate with their family and health issues....the 3rd sibling is resentful but helps out because PDmil helped out when that siblings kids were young...and then there is DH.....whho seemingly has all the time in the world to wave his magic fairy wand and take care of everything else for PDmil because she is a widow and he is her favorite child and always has been.  He made the family look good...so he thinks he has to keep going with that thought.....seems a bit late for him to turn around and dispute everything....but he could do it with better boundaries.

[Phoenix Rising]

If it were me, I would just say what I was thinking in a non-abusive way because yes, if one holds it in for too long, they will blow up. I have been struggling where you are right now and it's so much easier to give advice when it is not your situation. In my situation with DH, I just told him and I was pleasantly surprised at how he actually admitted that he also felt the same way I was feeling with MIL conflict.

To answer your question... it sounds too simple but boundaries - having them and sticking to them is how one draws the line

Yes....I want to give DH advice, too....but somehow it just seems like what I would say would hurt him to the core...obviously he has a hand in it by allowing himself to continue to be abused by PDMil....because he doesn't know how to speak up without recourse.  She's an old woman who has become terribly helpless at her own doing.  She literally has no one else....the other siblings really don't contribute anything nor are they motivated to.  One sibling thinks PDmil is lazy....the other has an extremely full plate with their family and health issues....the 3rd sibling is resentful but helps out because PDmil helped out when that siblings kids were young...and then there is DH.....whho seemingly has all the time in the world to wave his magic fairy wand and take care of everything else for PDmil because she is a widow and he is her favorite child and always has been.  He made the family look good...so he thinks he has to keep going with that thought.....seems a bit late for him to turn around and dispute everything....but he could do it with better boundaries.

Can understand where you're coming from. It's not easy to have these type of discussions, especially knowing 100% how the other person will perceive it. Does DH ever express any frustration about doing everything for PDMIL? That could an opening to gently suggest boundaries?

[Pepin]

Can understand where you're coming from. It's not easy to have these type of discussions, especially knowing 100% how the other person will perceive it. Does DH ever express any frustration about doing everything for PDMIL? That could an opening to gently suggest boundaries?

Yes, he does.  But then he overrides himself and says that there is no one else to help PDmil except him.  Involving his siblings more or others would just create more chaos -- especially those that are not directly involved.  They tell DH: what if or have you tried this or what about this or that... -- and it makes DH even more frustrated because he has indeed pretty much thought of everything.  I do give him credit for all that he has done but I am still bummed that the burden has been placed on him. 

The other thing that I think would help is if we were able to have more open dialogue about PDmil....I feel like such a fraud for not being able to speak my mind about her.  Though, the times that I have spoken up, he has gotten defensive -- as if I was cornering him to choose or something.  My intention has always to help him look at things from a different angle to see if there is any wiggle room and to help lighten his load.  I generally operate with facts only...but he manages to always come up with something to excuse PDmil's behavior and to also excuse why he has to do what he has to do for her. 

IDK.....I feel like sometimes we are so close to revealing the truth to each other.  I just want him to tell me that he knows what he has been doing and that he is sorry....and I would like to say yes, I have been aware of this all along and I am sorry that I couldn't speak my feelings about it. 

On another note, the mom of DH's friend is being transferred to hospice...a huge weight is going to be lifted from this man's shoulders.  It's been a long time coming and I know it is going to be life changing for him.     This is good time for DH to take notes.