Coronavirus guilt

[p123]

What he will do 123 is make sure only you can do what he needs doing. Only you can do xyz for him. In reality many people can but he wants you to do it.

If your dad didn't need any help would he worry that he won't see you at all, because he must recognise on some level that he doesn't actually have a relationship with you. I just remember how much dad fought against a care home. I wondered if he knew that if there was no need for us to do xyz for him that we might be more aware that there isn't a relationship at all there? 

We've had this thing with newspapers at the care home. He expects sib to take newspapers. He will not even begin to countenance having it delivered every day.  You know why. It's not like he wants to see sib and ask her about her life, (I told you before he has never shown any interest in his grandkids thankfully.) He just wants to make her feel awful by moaning about his life. He also wants the staff to see her visit. So transparent.

Yeh all about me doing it. He fights vehemently against home shopping delivery for that very reason. ITs his excuse to get me there.

[newlife33]

Zero guilt for me.

[_apparentlywicked]

There should be no guilt. I was thinking about this yesterday. It makes me so cross that we're forced into a situation where we feel bad for protecting ourselves. Whereas he's never even shown remorse for his behaviour. It really is upsidedowntown.

[p123]

Now wonder if I should tell him I can't go and see him for a month because I might infect him..... That would be fun...

[M0009803]

My uPDm and UPDNsis are currently inside one of the European hot zones. (FTR my mother is in good health but is now almost 76 so she is one of the higher risk groups)

I was supposed to fly down there for a meeting with my uPDm and my lawyer (regarding Part II of my late fathers will), but had to cancel because there are now thousands of local cases of Covid-19, and it would just be far too dangerous to fly in now.

Before I cancelled my plans, I got an email from uPDm telling me to be careful when I landed, as the situation was serious, and that I should avoid shaking hands etc..pretty much what you would expect a normal, caring mother to say.

My first reaction was guilt.    But after about 5 minutes of FOG, I realised that this is exactly how they always reel you back in. They are very good at intermittently showing a shred of empathy and humanity, and because we are normal empathic human beings, it keeps us hoping for more of that in the future.

I kept extensive notes of their behavior over the last few years we were in contact, so I re-read my notes to remind myself just how shitty their behavior was towards me.

And that got rid of the FOG completely.  My uPDm is an adult, and she can take care of herself.  I am much better off without having her in my life.

[stasia]

Yes, I am feeling extreme guilt and FOG. M is elderly and lives alone and has driven literally everyone away from her so she has no one to help her get groceries or whatever.

I feel guilty that I'm not calling her and reassuring her that I am alive. What kind of terrible daughter lets her mom sit there terrified that her kid is dead? (To be fair, I was expected to talk to her most days when we were in contact and if I didn't return a call she went right to "OMG dead in a ditch." Not that she actually cared about my well being. She cared about whether I was alive and well enough to help her and listen to her cry.)

I feel guilty that I'm not there taking care of her (she doesn't actually need care but she plays the waif card HARD). I feel guilty that I know she is absolutely terrified and panicking and I am not soothing her.

But, I also know that I cannot do any of those things and still stay sane and mentally healthy. I cannot manage my own coronavirus anxiety PLUS hers on top of that. So I'm not. It feels pretty terrible, though.

[stasia]

It's actually not in the best interest of the health waify pds to get it. The mandatory two week quarantine means no visitors, which in turn means no supply. I wouldn't be surprised if they fail to report infections and happily share it with their families.

Sharing is not caring in this case...

Snort, if my M got it she would expect me to move in with her, do everything for her, take care of her 8 million cats,  and breathe in all her germs, since I'm younger than her "and you can handle it." If I did catch it from her, it would be all my fault for not washing my hands well enough or whatever, she used to get SO PISSED at me as a kid when I got sick because I was a thumbsucker and nail biter and my hands were constantly in my mouth so I got sick a lot.

There would be absolutely no regard for my own safety. She simply does not care, it is all about her.

[gcj07a]

Thanks for this thread! I was just about to post about this. My unBPDm has an autoimmune disease as well as lots of respiratory issues. This would totally kill her if she got it. I waffle between "good riddance" and "I am an awful son for not being there for her as I am sure she is terrified." My F (whose divorce from M is imminent) is thanking his lucky stars that they aren't still together or he would be having to supply the waif. My siblings don't approve of my NC, but they are not pressuring me at all. So that's good. Anyhow, it does my heart good to see that I am not the only one dealing with this. Just another reason I love this community.

[Free2Bme]

PD thinking ......"Never let a good crisis go to waste!"

[lotusblume]

I have been off the forum for a few months as I've been taking a break, feeling zero guilt after confronting my sociopathic sibling and one of my parents...

Clarity and understanding has erased the FOG completely... Until now.

The coronavirus epidemic has affected my long sought out freedom from FOG.

Now I'm wondering... Am I a bad person for not reaching out during this time? Making sure everyone is okay?

I have thought about every individual FOO member and wonder about their health.

Then, my rational mind tells me, has anyone reached out to ask if you are okay? Do they even care? Or are they expecting you to come back and take care of them, as per the pattern? Quell their anxieties... Take care of their emotions... Be the voice of reason.

The fact that I am worried about their own fears almost more than dealing with my own real life fears and situation changing for me and my spouse... That says a lot about old patterns.

This is a pretty big eye opener that can show you what your role was in the FOO if you examine it.

I am sorry that you are dealing with those tough decisions and feelings during this time, but glad to know I'm not alone.

Stay safe everyone!

[blues_cruise]

I have been off the forum for a few months as I've been taking a break, feeling zero guilt after confronting my sociopathic sibling and one of my parents...

Clarity and understanding has erased the FOG completely... Until now.

The coronavirus epidemic has affected my long sought out freedom from FOG.

Now I'm wondering... Am I a bad person for not reaching out during this time? Making sure everyone is okay?

I have thought about every individual FOO member and wonder about their health.

Then, my rational mind tells me, has anyone reached out to ask if you are okay? Do they even care? Or are they expecting you to come back and take care of them, as per the pattern? Quell their anxieties... Take care of their emotions... Be the voice of reason.

The fact that I am worried about their own fears almost more than dealing with my own real life fears and situation changing for me and my spouse... That says a lot about old patterns.

This is a pretty big eye opener that can show you what your role was in the FOO if you examine it.

I am sorry that you are dealing with those tough decisions and feelings during this time, but glad to know I'm not alone.

Stay safe everyone!

I feel the same way and you're so right about this situation revealing what our familial role always was. I don't know if I feel guilt so much as pure anxiety at the very idea of being expected to get back in contact. Our relationship was only ever based on what I could do for him so the old tapes have started to play.

Saying that, I'm awake enough now that I know it isn't my responsibility to look after his every whim. It's just my outdated people pleasing coping mechanism which developed far too strongly growing up because I relied on it to survive in a very unhealthy home environment.  Both he and his wife have access to the internet so they can order their shopping and get what they need. Checking the supermarkets' websites they're all continuing to do home deliveries but are simply asking that they're made aware when customers are self-isolating so that their drivers can take the necessary precautions. I've checked their local pharmacy too and they offer prescription deliveries, so that's also not a problem. If anything really becomes an issue for them then his wife has family living an hour away who are more than capable of dealing with it. I have the misfortune of living closest to him but that doesn't mean that I should automatically be the go-to for favours and I'm certainly not breaking no contact just to make their lives easier. I've checked their local community page on Facebook too and kind people on there are offering help to anyone who needs it so again, they're really not helpless and uNF would only claim that he needs help from me because he loves the N supply and control it gives him.

In the UK apparently self-isolation for the over 70s could last up to 4 months. The media have started reporting on how important it is to check in with older family members during this time and I can see that it's going to turn into one massive guilt trip for people in our situation. My boundary to protect myself from this is to stop checking the news too often and to step back entirely from social media until everything starts to calm down.

What he will do 123 is make sure only you can do what he needs doing. Only you can do xyz for him. In reality many people can but he wants you to do it.

If your dad didn't need any help would he worry that he won't see you at all, because he must recognise on some level that he doesn't actually have a relationship with you. I just remember how much dad fought against a care home. I wondered if he knew that if there was no need for us to do xyz for him that we might be more aware that there isn't a relationship at all there? 

We've had this thing with newspapers at the care home. He expects sib to take newspapers. He will not even begin to countenance having it delivered every day.  You know why. It's not like he wants to see sib and ask her about her life, (I told you before he has never shown any interest in his grandkids thankfully.) He just wants to make her feel awful by moaning about his life. He also wants the staff to see her visit. So transparent.

Yeh all about me doing it. He fights vehemently against home shopping delivery for that very reason. ITs his excuse to get me there.

Exactly. Back when uNF had his heart attack he couldn't drive for a while and even though he was perfectly capable of doing an online shop I ended up spending half the day driving over to him and taking him and his wife to the supermarket. He just loved the attention and control. I drove his car for the first time and his horrible wife actually had the audacity to smirk at my parking once we got there, even though she can't even drive herself! Absolute ungrateful, nasty witch. 

[Brooke]

Got to admit surprised my Dad hasn't convinced himself he's got it. That'll be next....

Same!

Or maybe he has. Who knows? 

[Brooke]

I have thought about every individual FOO member and wonder about their health.

Then, my rational mind tells me, has anyone reached out to ask if you are okay? Do they even care? Or are they expecting you to come back and take care of them, as per the pattern? Quell their anxieties... Take care of their emotions... Be the voice of reason.

Thank you, I needed to hear this!

[p123]

Yeh Dad is deffo going to make this into a crisis that works to his benefit.....

Can't be long before hes convinced hes got it.

[p123]

Thing is if they do tell over-70s to isolate surely it doesnt mean family can't go and see them?

Dad will freak if he thinks this is going to happen!

[stasia]

Thing is if they do tell over-70s to isolate surely it doesnt mean family can't go and see them?

Dad will freak if he thinks this is going to happen!

That's what kills me - I know that if I weren't NC, M would be insisting that I quit my job and live with her and run all her errands and tend to all her needs and do all her adulting for her, because these are such desperate times. But..... I live in a big city! I ride public transit daily - well, I did until stuff started shutting down and they told us all to work from home. I'm certain I've crossed paths with someone who's infected, or been coughed on, etc. But she'd think that I can magically avoid passing it to her, and if I did then it'd be because I didn't wash my hands well enough or something, therefore It's All My Fault and I am a Bad Daughter.

And yes, everything I've read suggests that we shouldn't visit our elderly relatives if we or they are social distancing, especially if we're out in public or in the work world. For their own safety.

I got a dose of reality the other day when Boyfriend was explaining to his (non-PD but problematic in MANY other ways) elderly dad why he thought it best to postpone the trip to see him, scheduled for this weekend. His dad didn't push back at all, said yeah, that makes sense, especially since stepmom has a lot of health issues, let's reschedule when it's convenient and this virus has died down. No waifing. No panic. No "but what about MEEEEEE?!?" I think his dad might even have asked how WE are? I about fell out of my seat, overhearing that.

[Mathilda]

My dad listens to a lot of radio. I can imagine him listening to the issue unfolding and thinking 'she'll come round, she'll be wanting to visit me now, she'll forget about what I did'. What he won't be thinking is 'i've been so horrible to her, I should say sorry'. It's another example of how he abuses the empathy in us. Because he doesn't have it he has learnt that many many times people overlook treatment they shouldn't because they hate conflict.

Only I'm not going. There is nothing I want to say to him.

I live in Europe and my country is practically locked down since yesterday. I am NC with my parents for 1,5 year, they never really seemed to mind that much, although my dad showed up at my doorstep right after christmas and New Year with tears in his eyes because he felt they had done nothing wrong and he wanted to talk, which I refused because it would be pointless.

Nevertheless, the past few days I was thinking it would be a good idea to write them a note that if they need anything, i.e. groceries, they can make a list and drop it in my mailbox (we live in the same apartment building).

But before I could write my note, my mother was on my voicemail. I haven't spoken to her in 1,5 years. I called her back to check if everything was alright.
So I asked if she needed anything. She said "no, your father does the shopping". Well ok ...
I asked if they were ok, but she didn't answer the question and instead she wanted to know if I was ok.
So I said, yes I'm fine.
And then she said 'That's it?" I said "Yes, that's it"
And then she said "Well goodbye then" and hung up 

Guess she wanted me to say I wasn't ok, maybe feeling sick or even infected with corona or at least say I'm terrified.
She needs to feed of the drama.
We are all worried about corona and my company ordered me to work from home for the next few weeks, so I'm pretty busy and I don't need this s*#% of my parents.

[JustKat]

No guilt at all.

My NPDmother and enFather mistreated me my entire life. On top of the emotional abuse, they also denied me medical care when I needed it. When I was in high school I had chronic tonsilitis and would lay on the couch crying in pain, while they told me it was my "punishment" for kissing boys (something I wasn't even doing). On the day I finally ran away from home, the first thing I did was go to the ER for help. I was SO sick. My enFather is now 89 and I'm 60. I'm in the high-risk group and am choosing to do what he had over 50 years to do and didn't, take care of ME.

[JustKat]

How's this for an eye-opener about PD people.

My GC sister went NC with me when my mother was dying. She's turning 59 this week and is a cancer survivor, which makes her very high risk. I was concerned about her so I checked her Facebook page.

Well, she's whining and complaining all over Facebook that the Coronavirus is ruining her birthday. She was going to have a big party at Disneyland and now she can't and is demanding everyone send her virtual hugs and birthday wishes. No concern for her health or the health of her family. No concern for friends or offers to help her neighbors. Just like my Nmother before her, she's pissed off because a national emergency is getting all the attention. Stupid pandemic is ruining HER party.

[p123]

Thanks for this thread! I was just about to post about this. My unBPDm has an autoimmune disease as well as lots of respiratory issues. This would totally kill her if she got it. I waffle between "good riddance" and "I am an awful son for not being there for her as I am sure she is terrified." My F (whose divorce from M is imminent) is thanking his lucky stars that they aren't still together or he would be having to supply the waif. My siblings don't approve of my NC, but they are not pressuring me at all. So that's good. Anyhow, it does my heart good to see that I am not the only one dealing with this. Just another reason I love this community.

gc no problem. You're not the only one..... I used to get massive guilt attacks that I was the worse son in the world. Last few years his behaviour has got so damn selfish that I'm pretty much past that. I've had years of "crying wolf" from him, years and years and years.

To be honest, the more he does, and oh boy does it keep coming, the more ammunition it gives my brain to care even less. He still thinks he can lay on the guilt but it doesnt work any more. Over the years I've moved up to 99.99% certain that I've done what I can for him. Now if it doesnt work out for him then hes got himself to blame...