Coronavirus guilt

[p123]

Thing is if they do tell over-70s to isolate surely it doesnt mean family can't go and see them?

Dad will freak if he thinks this is going to happen!

That's what kills me - I know that if I weren't NC, M would be insisting that I quit my job and live with her and run all her errands and tend to all her needs and do all her adulting for her, because these are such desperate times. But..... I live in a big city! I ride public transit daily - well, I did until stuff started shutting down and they told us all to work from home. I'm certain I've crossed paths with someone who's infected, or been coughed on, etc. But she'd think that I can magically avoid passing it to her, and if I did then it'd be because I didn't wash my hands well enough or something, therefore It's All My Fault and I am a Bad Daughter.

And yes, everything I've read suggests that we shouldn't visit our elderly relatives if we or they are social distancing, especially if we're out in public or in the work world. For their own safety.

I got a dose of reality the other day when Boyfriend was explaining to his (non-PD but problematic in MANY other ways) elderly dad why he thought it best to postpone the trip to see him, scheduled for this weekend. His dad didn't push back at all, said yeah, that makes sense, especially since stepmom has a lot of health issues, let's reschedule when it's convenient and this virus has died down. No waifing. No panic. No "but what about MEEEEEE?!?" I think his dad might even have asked how WE are? I about fell out of my seat, overhearing that.

Stasia - thats so familiar. Its all about MEEEEE!!!!!! What about ME? How can someone else need something its all about ME!!!!!

You might have read my threads about Dad doing this EVERY week. I work on call/standby so sometimes I get called middle of night. The one time I said "I've been up since 2am not visiting", I had "OH no Oh no, oh dear, oh dear, what am I going to do? Oh dear oh dear". Jeez its not the end of the world, Im just not visiting ONE day. There is no need for this.
One time I got called and but said yes I could come anyway and he was "Oh thank you God, thank you God". Way OTT and a bit scary and freaky....

[Mathilda]

Before I cancelled my plans, I got an email from uPDm telling me to be careful when I landed, as the situation was serious, and that I should avoid shaking hands etc..pretty much what you would expect a normal, caring mother to say.

My first reaction was guilt.    But after about 5 minutes of FOG, I realised that this is exactly how they always reel you back in. They are very good at intermittently showing a shred of empathy and humanity, and because we are normal empathic human beings, it keeps us hoping for more of that in the future.

I kept extensive notes of their behavior over the last few years we were in contact, so I re-read my notes to remind myself just how shitty their behavior was towards me.

And that got rid of the FOG completely.  My uPDm is an adult, and she can take care of herself.  I am much better off without having her in my life.

Yup, same here. My mother called me yesterday and SHE ASKED ME HOW I WAS 
But I know if I tell her how I am, she won't be interested. It's only grooming me back in so she can get my care and attention. Or she's hoping I will say things go bad, so she can feed of the drama. But it's not about me. It never was, it never will be.
Took me 50 years to learn that lesson, but thankfully I got it.

[moglow]

Hello, just wondering if anyone else is feeling more pressure to break NC with coronavirus on the horizon.
My uNPDm has underlying health issues and I think there is a strong chance she wouldnt survive it.
I'm not feeling any strong urge to break NC but it has been playing on my mind how would i feel if in a few weeks she's gone.
I suppose im feeling guilty that im not feeling compelled to reach out to her and my enF.
A realisation I guess that it is definitely broken forever if such a risk doesnt change the status quo.

Yes and no. There's some internal rumbling that I should do or feel something, but what - And why. She was real clear last time we talked, she's not interested in anything I have to say. And im really not interested in her limitless complaints and negativity. So we're at an impasse.

I'm kinda disappointed that I feel so little for her, after all those years of angst over her ever word and deed. I never thought I'd be this person. Like you I just don't feel compelled to go there, literally.

Please take care of yourself. 💙

[Jenny134]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and experiences. I haven't contacted them, but know as some of you point out that they will be expecting me to. And ill be smeared even further when I don't.
I did contact my uBPDsis and asked her to make sure they isolate as very high risk, plus I shared some other advice. She responded to say they're doing all that, they're not stupid. So again really glad I reached out. 
Thing is they are quite stupid in my experience. My enDad will get fed up of her after a few weeks and will go for a walk to buy a newspaper or something. 
Feeling really anxious now. Same response as always from sis, just horrible and angry, nothing ever changes and i never learn. But at least ive done something. If parents died and id said nothing, I would have found it difficult to live with.

[moglow]

If parents died and id said nothing, I would have found it difficult to live with.

Yep. So put down your sledgehammer or whatever you've been beating yourself with, and take a deep breath. You did what you felt you needed and were able to do. Some times that really is all we have.

:hugs:

[JustKat]

I'm posting as someone whose Nmother has already passed away. In her case it was cancer. I remained NC while she was dying and have NO regrets, knowing that she would have taken advantage of a "death bed" visit to stick it to me one more time.

The thing is, if you have aging PD parents, they WILL die at some point. That's an inevitability that we all have to deal with at some point. I think some may be feeling extra guilt because of the unexpected circumstances of a pandemic. If I could offer any advice it would be to ask yourself if a virus is really any different from cancer, diabetes, heart disease? Is there a reason to react differently to the current situation?

I may be coming across as heartless, but having gone through the death of a PD parent, I can honestly say the cause of death didn't add to any guilt I may have felt (or didn't feel).

I guess what I'm trying to say is if you're NC, and plan to make that permanent, be prepared for end-of-life issues no matter what. Every case is different and some people might feel better breaking NC at the end, but do be aware that these people do NOT change. I've been told my Nmother continued to badmouth me while drawing her final breaths. I'm glad I didn't go.

Everyone please take care during this difficult time. Hugs to you all...

[GettingOOTF]

Thank you JustKathy that was helpful.

I was thinking today that it's crazy I feel guilty for not reaching out when they haven't reached out to me either. This is a pattern in my FOO relationship. I would send gifts for holidays etc. and it never occurred to me to notice that they didn't do the same. We have been so conditioned to meet their needs at the expense of our own

[p123]

What he will do 123 is make sure only you can do what he needs doing. Only you can do xyz for him. In reality many people can but he wants you to do it.

If your dad didn't need any help would he worry that he won't see you at all, because he must recognise on some level that he doesn't actually have a relationship with you. I just remember how much dad fought against a care home. I wondered if he knew that if there was no need for us to do xyz for him that we might be more aware that there isn't a relationship at all there? 

We've had this thing with newspapers at the care home. He expects sib to take newspapers. He will not even begin to countenance having it delivered every day.  You know why. It's not like he wants to see sib and ask her about her life, (I told you before he has never shown any interest in his grandkids thankfully.) He just wants to make her feel awful by moaning about his life. He also wants the staff to see her visit. So transparent.

Yeh think you're spot on.....

Its as if hes "guarding" something that he doesnt want to lose sometimes. Funny you say about not having a relationship. We did though before he got so bad with this - thats the point. Its him thats screwed things up.

Sometimes I think he tricks me into doing stuff not because he wants but because he thinks I should do it or someone else will see. Its well weird. For instance, if I say I can't visit he'll ask why. If I then give him a valid reason then  he'll let it go completely. Almost sometimes as if hes justified to himself he can let me off the hook - kind of like "its ok hes got a good reason its not he can't be bothered",

Of course, hes been living on his own for nearly 30 years. Ive never failed to help him or sort something for him. I do find it really disrespectful that he keeps testing me like this.

[BettyGray]

Somehow I knew we would all share these feelings right now. And sure enough...

Interestingly, the thought didn’t even cross my mind until the last couple of days. Maybe it’s because my 2020 has been dreadful anyway. My beloved FIL is in late stage lung cancer. DH carted him to every test, every scan, every dr. appointment . Not knowing thoroughly the high  risk coming.

He spent 5 days in the hospital in January because he had chest pain and other issues. This is before we even knew about the lung cancer. Still, even after he left the hospital, DH (and his brother)  have spent their time taking care of him.

On February 17, we lost our beloved 18 year old cat to heart failure. We had one last week with her knowing it was almost time. And DH couldn’t be there for most of it. So I had to do a lot of grieving for her  on my own and he was heartbroken to miss time with the cat & not be with me.

In Feb. 18th, FIL got the cancer diagnosis. Unbelievably horrible week. At that point DH and I were honestly like - well, that third bad thing will drop any minute. Coronavirus... it seemed appropriate. Husband and father in all those medical facilities. As of the end of January only some of the hospital workers wore masks. This week, hospital let very few people in. Even the valets are wearing masks now.

I am not looking for sympathy. I have just been so consumed with grief for all of 2020. Just coping day to day- my FOO was the last thing on my mind until recently.

In a moment of weakness and fear, the thoughts started to cross my mind. I realized that fear makes us irrational and insecure. We should not make fear-based emotions control our decision making. If I didn’t feel bad or guilty for the last 5 years, why would the guilt hit me now? They could have gotten sick on any day of those last 5 years and I felt nothing knowing that to be true. Now should not be any different.

I do expect more Hoovers or contact attempts. The thing is - right now, my emotional energy is dedicated to my FOC. Our family crises have changed our focus and we have realized how much we need each other. I have been reminded of what good-enough, loving families do for each other- how things are supposed to be.

Even family friends have helped us form a support system through all of this.   I just wish my cat could have lived for 6 more months. She was a constant source of solace in hard times, which, over the last 18 years have been numerous. Her presence and love in the time of Coronavirus  is sorely missed. 

FIL isn’t improving much, despite radiation and immunotherapy. It is so sad to see him lose his spirit. And all of you caretakers know how hard it is living your lives simultaneously  pre-grieving and playing nurse. Exhausting - emotionally and physically.

I hope all of you are staying healthy and sane. Honestly, so many of us have been through so much tragedy and trauma - in a way, we may be better equipped and resilient enough to get through this period than others we know.

If anything, we should give our FOCs extra support. I am sure FOO will be fine. without me. 

[MarlenaEve]

I totally understand you.
I have been taken over by the corona v guilt and broke NC. I'm even considering going there to see my mother. I can't advise you anything except, do what feels good for you. Hope you stay safe.

[Sidney37]

Thank you for posting this.   I'm overwhelmed by guilt over this... like barely functional, PTSD raging, screaming at my quarantined family, severe depression, guilt.   I don't know what to do.  Please just let me vent.  I don't know where to turn. 

I'm fairly new to the NC.   EnD is teaching out to me in multiple unexpected ways since coronavirus hit.  I've ignored.

My PTSD is raging,  i feel like I'm on Titanic playing in the band that played as the ship went down.   I'm going through the motions waiting for the impending certain death from the virus but continuing to play my instrument (cook meals, plan for my summer garden, pay bills, and now learn how to homeschool kids with learning disabilities).  Add to it, I'm living in one of the hardest hit areas in the US.   We haven't left our house in weeks.   I'm getting weekly food deliveries, but our regular foods are often sold out and the virus has been diagnosed at the warehouse of our food delivery service.   I panic when someone pours too much milk or uses one too many disinfectant wipes.   I'm rationing food and cleaning products.  I'm wondering if  I should be disinfecting my mail, groceries and packages.   I'm leaving deliveries in my garage for days before touching them and my hands are bleeding from the washing,  How do you sanitize apples and oranges anyway?     All of this while stuck in the house with special needs kids, a husband with ADHD and a barking dog.

Now add to that the guilt.   How are my parents copping?  Are they properly sanitizing?   How are they getting food and prescriptions?  They don't have any relatives where they live.  Do they understand the seriousness of this?  They are in an area with very limited testing and few confirmed cases so they probably have a false sense of safety.   But if I call she will dump all of her stress on me when I can barely cope with my current level of PTSD.   This is just too much!

[BettyGray]

Sidney37,

My heart breaks for you in this situation. It is all so incredibly hard, especially those of us who suffer from PTSD, anxiety and depression.

It sounds like your brain is hijacking your patience, spirit, and body. May I ask if you are on any kind of medication for depression or anxiety? It has been a stabilizing force for many who suffer - and it sounds like it could be helpful for you right now.

PTSD rage is so scary. I felt like I could not control my emotions. They controlled me. PTSD is not something you can think your way out of. It has to include learning to recognize triggers in your body before they even hit your brain. A very tall order and near-impossible feat when you are suffering from seemingly spontaneous, horrifying triggers.

The other thing is an inability to rise above emotions into rationality, because that part of our brains is shut down when we are in fight or flight/survival mode. Which is basically where we all are right  now.

If you are able, in moments of relative mental stability, try focusing on monitoring how you are feeling. Write it all down, scientifically, if it helps. Notice when you feel your body and brain edging (or sprinting) toward anxiety, fear and paranoia. Right now, it is easy to go down that dark road. The uncertainty is absolutely brutal. Should I disinfect EVERYTHING? I start to think the same thing. I do a daily/twice daily wipe down of the things I touch the most. Even the mouthwash bottle.

As far as fruit goes, I have read that thicker skinned ones are probably best- bananas, oranges, pineapples. But research it if you want reassurance. Being informed is key. Fight fear with facts.

Taking care of yourself and your FOC is your top priority. All you have to do is get through each hour, each day. It is still the first couple of weeks of this - hopefully many will start to develop helpful routines and ways of coping.

As for NC and PD parents - amazingly, I have found they are terrible at dealing with crises. And often very unmoved or unchanged after the crises abate. They love a good crisis - the perfect way for them to play victim- so beware of that. Also remember- the guilt you feel is an engrained response, something our PDs drilled into us at a very early age. They are always looking for a scapegoat- which is usually the one who is easily manipulated by crushing guilt.

I think the best thing we can do right now is to acknowledge our fear as real, but to not let it take over our lives. It is very important to keep ourselves grounded in the moment, and not venture into the land of “what if’s?” That includes physically grounding things - cooking, gardening, excercise, writing, etc.

Oh - and stay off of your phone! I read the paper in the morning, check the headlines at the end of the day, and try to use most of my day for doing things in the real world.

And remember - your are not your abusive parents’ parent. Your kids need you first.

[Andeza]

I tried to reply earlier but my phone momentarily lost its mind. Need a new one I guess.

Liz has made a lot of good points. I personally have a tendency to freak out over health and medical stuff in a broad sense. This virus was on my radar from early January, but I've been fairly calm about it.

What I have done to cope is a bit odd, but it helped me so I'll share. Feel free to laugh, in fact I hope you do! 

I created what I fondly refer to as "the zombie land protocol. " Yes, I'm a bit of a goof. But while the name may be tongue-in-cheek the function is not. It is a list of steps to be followed if something really bad happens, like we get sick, or food is scarce, and the farther down the list goes, the worse the situation that it addresses becomes. Step one is just combating basic stuff like the flu, but it works up through natural disasters, apocalypse scenarios, etc.

Having a guideline to follow helps me relax. At the end of the day I can step back and say I've got the appropriate section covered, I've done all I can, we're good to go.

Maybe a less dramatic list than mine would help you reach that, I've done all I can and it's good enough, point. It's a wonderful place to be.

I hope you can find peace in this situation. It sucks, there is no doubt about it, but we can make it through! Sending you best wishes, prayers if you like them, good vibes if you don't. You can do this.

[JustKat]

They love a good crisis - the perfect way for them to play victim- so beware of that.

Yes! I'm seeing this now with my GC sister. She's all over Facebook making this pandemic about HER. First she was complaining that it ruined her birthday party, now she's claiming she was exposed and can't get tested. She's throwing a giant pity party, no concern about anyone else, just a lot of whining about ME ME ME. She's definitely enjoying the attention.

As for those coping with anxiety/PTSD symptoms, I feel for you. I'm also in that place of constant worry about wiping down surfaces, afraid to touch food, and so on.  My anxiety normally causes breathing difficulties and chest pains, which are now worse than they've ever been. I did have an appointment with my psych on Friday (my first ever teletherapy session) and she reassured me that what I'm feeling is normal. Everyone who has anxiety/PTSD will be having a much more difficult time right now.

I'm finding my anxiety gets better if I go out in the fresh air and garden a little, watch a good movie (nothing scary) or a good comedy show. Music can also be very healing. Taking short breaks from the stressful stuff really does help, even if all you do is put on a favorite song and dance for two minutes. When you feel that fear creeping in, get your head in a different place. It really does help.

[Sidney37]

Thanks Liz
I have tried every SSRI and SNRI over 15 years with worse and worse side effects,   They think i suffers from serotonin syndrome.  My old physician would prescribe Valium or klonopin for extreme situations, but my new one won't.   Frankly at this point I'm not even able to take care of my children without screaming at them, so I've been locked in my bedroom for since yesterday before I cause them PTSD.

[Tried2bZen]

I had an early onset of "Corona Virus guilt" a few weeks ago, but a few of my usual coping techniques have helped to step out of it. Not saying it will be the same for everyone on here, just sharing what has helped me: 

1) Who caused NC?

Not me. Years of abuse drove me to the point that I saw no other way out. Think the old "reap what you sow" and "everyone has to deal with their own karma of their past actions.

Has Corona changed the situation of who has caused this? No, it hasn't.

2) Reading Some of their old "Highlights"

I go through my notes of THEIR neglect:

- when I had back surgery - did they come visit? No, they said surgery was overreacting. When I had hip surgery, did they come visit? No, it was just a consequence of me overreacting to first the back surgery...

- did they come to my wedding? No, they didn't because the didn't like the date and location my wife and I had picked.

I could go on, but the point the group has been making: they were never really there for us. Not just that, but usually when we had pain or diseases, it was somehow always our fault (we were the hypochondriacs, needing therapy, etc. and were impacting their lives with our problems).

3) What are the odds that Corona will change them?

Obviously a rhetorical question, unless it would turn out that Coronavirus miraculously cures type two personality disorders  Will they come to the realization that, in light of a global tragedy, that their behavior was petty and vicious and that it is time to make amends, maybe even promise to you that from now on they will treat you with respect? At least for my parents, I can say that their answer will be a 100% "no".

Corona or not, what are the chances your parents have changed?

I do think that a lot of this guilt creeps in, based on our healthy thinking, but this "healthy thinking" is only on our side...

[Pepin]

Seems like many pwpds live to a ripe old age, come what may! 

  This has been my experience.  Seems that colds and other ailments just don't want to touch these people and they live long past the median age for their gender.  Corona Virus or not, still painting NC with NF.  He's already played the cancer and heart attack cards and obviously survived.  As for PDmil, she is glued to the TV and has everyone else do stuff for her so she is in no danger...*sigh*

I wanted to update on this.  PDmil has asked DH not to visit.     This is interesting and not on par with what others here have shared.  She is not asking DH to work through her TO DO list or anything else.  She doesn't want him to visit.  What does this mean?  I think it means she can take care of herself, for one.  I think it also means she understands what is going on and wouldn't risk her health for anything -- meaning she will be around longer.

[JustKat]

1) Who caused NC?

Not me. Years of abuse drove me to the point that I saw no other way out. Think the old "reap what you sow" and "everyone has to deal with their own karma of their past actions.

Has Corona changed the situation of who has caused this? No, it hasn't.

Thank you, Tried2bZen. Perfectly said. That's exactly how I see it.

[_apparentlywicked]

Just when you thought NC during the pandemic/lockdown was bad enough you now keep hearing about those poor elderly people in a care home in Spain abandoned in their beds, with many already dead. Just feels horrific knowing that and knowing they have probably heard about it but still not breaking NC.

The way I've been thinking about it is that I've fully recognised that my dad is not the same as me. He's like a cat in that I just can't talk to him. I can pet him, feed him etc but my cat will never be able or interested in listening to me. In the same way that my cat doesn't give a stiff who feeds him and isn't interested in why someone who used to feed him hasn't turned up so long as someone feeds him. Trying to communicate about his behaviour would be akin to the futility of talking to my cat about things I'd prefer him not to do. And that's what I keep coming back to. The whole futility and pointlessness of any contact. I've got nothing.

❤️❤️

[Sweetbriar]

Dear Sidney37,

I just want to send you some love from my little place in the world. I read your post and I see that I am not the only one suffering. I relate and from my spirit to yours I send you peace.

My instinct about everything right now is that this is when we really need to practice self-compassion. I find the serenity prayer helps. But also standing outside of ourselves and looking at ourselves, lovingly, and acknowledging how hard this is. This is unprecedented and it is scary. 

Things we can do with the nervous, frantic energy:

1. Try to stay away from the news.
2. Practise more self-care than ever - tea, deep breathing, conscious, constructive praying. Baths. Water is calming.
3. If you have a skill that you can use to help, try it. (My friend has a sewing machine and she is sewing masks.) For me, I have picked one neighbour that I care about and offer her help. But also, I find keeping hands busy, moves the nervous energy. (I have started playing guitar.) My friend knits.
4. Take these days second by second, minute by minute and tell yourself: This is really big, but I can handle it. I can handle this is my new mantra.
5. Check in with the little child inside of you and see how she is. Mother her like a good mother would have during difficult times.

I think we can all handle this. But I know we will have moments where it feels out of control. That is not great for PTSD. So our PTSD must become the place where we exercise the most mindful compassion.