COVID-19 and the PD

[sevenyears]

I live in a central European country that is introducing drastic measures to combat COVID-19. Borders are closing, schools are closed, shops will be closed as of Monday and restaurants operating with limited hours. People are being told to stay at home, cancel family events and telework (unless in a critical industry).  It's only a matter of days before the country, or at least this city is under full quarantine. My fear is that a quarantine will be introduced while the children (DD8 and DS4) are with my uocpd xh, and that he will use that to keep the kids from me. He prevented me from spending time alone with the children for nine months when we were still living together.

They are registered with me for their primary residence, and with him for their secondary residence. There's not yet a formal custody agreement in place, so the 50/50 arrangement is purely an informal practice. 

On top of everything else to deal with: the fall out from years of conflict and manipulation, preparations at work and home for a lengthy home stay, and a financial black hole from legal fees, now I am worried about how long it is until he manages to keep the children from me.

If a quarantine is enacted while the children are with me, I would (very reluctantly) find a way to keep the informal parenting arrangement intact. Even if the children would be with him for part of the time, it would be harder for him to block transferring the kids to me, since there would already be one transfer from me to him. But, if it is the other way, and the kids are with him when/if a quarantine is put into place, he would be unlikely to transfer them to me.  Any ideas what I can do now to put something into place that would prevent this?

At least, he can't still claim I want to kidnap the children. If that was my intention, I would have left the country with them today while some borders and trans-Atlantic flights are still open. At least every cloud has a silver lining!

[looloo]

Maybe it will all come down to what your children's primary address is?  It's probably your address, not your ex's.  Their school probably has your address down on their records, not your ex's address.  So if there is a quarantine, they'll need to be at their official address at all times.  You might not be able to allow their father to take them even for a short while, as long as the quarantine is in place.  As long as they're with you right now, you have the upper hand I think.

[cant turn back]

Seven years, I've started having the same concerns.  My ExH and I are 50/50 with our DD16.  I'm worried that when she returns to his house on Monday (our usual exchange day) that it will parlay into her "needing" to remain there.  ExH has never met an epidemic/pandemic that he didn't deleve into..  bird flu?  H1N1?  Yup, I've been there-done that with him.  DD16 has indicated that yes, her dad is stockpiling things, buying masks, etc.  Anyway, I can already forsee how he is going to say that she should stay with him, or, he is going to manufacture some sniffles then say that they both need to remain quarantined together... that he is better prepared than me or his home is safer.  He's an alarmist.  Always has been.  His glass is perpetually half empty.  These troubled times play right into his doomsday tendencies. 
This probably falls into the category of let's not worry and just see what happens.  I wish it were that easy.  I'm a worrier.  Me ExH will take any opportunity to seize more time and influence with DD16.

[sevenyears]

Cant turn back, yes, you described my XH to a tee. My x does everything he can to grab more time (and claim that I'm the one doing it!), and influence the children. I'm worried about distressed children, being locked inside with a stressed parent that is prone to angry outbursts, and being held inside with him for a prolonged period. DS4 is seeking reassurances constantly. DD8 already had anger issues for which I am trying to get her therapy. Uocpd xh tried to block it, now the first consultation with the child psychologist which took months to get, will probably be postponed until after Easter.

Today, even more drastic measures were introduced, essentially forbidding people to leave their house unless absolutely necessary. The gov introduced nation-wide teleworking policies so that people can work from home wherever possible. Restaurants and small businesses are closed. You can only leave your house to work in a critical field (ie medical, grocery, banks, public utilities, etc). You can only go to the grocery store alone, people can't meet in groups larger than 5 people, and if you go for a walk (ie to take your dog out), you can go with people from your own household.

[pushit]

Funny you all mentioned this.  I had the exact same thought today.  In our area, the schools extended spring break by an additional week.  This year my exPDw has the kids over spring break and I am guessing she will use that as an excuse to keep them with her for two weeks instead of one.  Only time will tell, I'll find out when I text her to ask when she would like to meet for the exchange in a week.

The other part for us is how my exPDw always seems to invent maladies for D9.  Every few months D9 needs to have a special test done for some new concern that exPDw has.  I wouldn't be surprised to hear that she suspects D9 has COVID-19 and it's a new emergency, so we have to get her tested.  Thank goodness D9 is a very resilient and independent minded child, it never seems to phase her.  I've always wondered why the professionals don't question why exPDw doesn't seem as concerned about the other two kids.     It seems like another way to create drama and make exPDw look like the one that really know's what's happening and cares the most. 

But honestly, the timing for me couldn't be better.  I just bought a house and am currently living in a sea of boxes, just yesterday I found my coffee maker.  Yay for simple pleasures!!  If I have to spend a couple weeks quarantined without the kids this is about as ideal as it gets.

[Stepping lightly]

We have the same concerns here.  We only have the kids EOW right now, and if BM would refuse to allow them to come on DH's time, it would be a really long time between seeing the kids.  DSS did not seem to be doing well when we last saw him at an activity, so our concerns are escalated if he does not get a break from BM/BF for an extended period of time (he is the SG at her house and is just trying to survive).

[Latchkey]

Checking in on the members in this thread and in this forum dealing with this issue.

My DS8 is going back and forth between houses a few times a week. We are sheltering in place but it gives him a bit of change of scene for a bit. I love having more time with him and he's a trooper. Overall, it's ok for me to have him go over to his PD Dad's a bit and gives me a bit of a break from the remote work and impromptu home schooling and spring break extension.

[Associate of Daniel]

Knowing that my uNPD exH will go weird and horrible with the Covid situation, possibly worse than he does with holidays, weddings, birthdays etc., I agreed to his suggestion that ds13 stay with him and his uNPD wife for 2 weeks. 

He would have been with them for 4 of those days anyway.

I'm praying that he agrees to send him back to me for at least 2 weeks after that. And that there isn't a complete lockdown that stops that from happening.

I'm also praying this time of isolation for the 3 of them in their 2 bedroom flat, working from home, will show ds who his uNPD ad and uNPD smum are.

Hoping that he'll be desperate to come home here and have lots of (socially distanced) hugs.

AOD

[pushit]

We are doing pretty well here.  exPDw did not attempt to keep them an extra week, but to no surprise she claimed they all had COVID-19 and it came with a laundry list of all the things she had done to nurse them back to health.  It was amusing, she was happy to tell anyone who would listen what had happened. 

Of course, then my kids come to my house and I ask about their symptoms in casual conversation - one had diarrhea, another had a slight cough, the third didn't show much of anything.  So yeah, another extremely unclear diagnosis (laid out with certainty) from exPDw in order to make her look like a savior.  That was a short lived drama episode, so things could be much worse.

One other thing I noticed is when they are at exPDw's house there is a strict regimen of music and dance practice, along with extra school work.  And, this was during the week that was supposed to be spring break.  I don't get the logic of making them do online dance classes every single day when they normally go 1-2 times a week.  The kids show up to my house exhausted after every exchange, and it's not surprising.  So, in my house we keep up with activities and school work, but it's more of an attempt to replicate a normal week.  I also make sure to schedule down and fun time to release some energy, all in all they're doing really well right now.

Hope everyone is doing okay with this shutdown.  Right now I am so thankful I am out.  I can't imagine the hell it would be if I still lived with her, or was just starting the divorce right now.  My heart goes out to you all that are in the thick of things during this.

[Latchkey]

AOD this is such an extraordinary time. Hoping for the best in all this for you and DS as well.

pushit, I have been pondering the same. In my second marriage we would have been many kids and me with PD in lockdown together had this happened a few years ago. I can't imagine the stress. My DS8 gets the opposite of over activity and schoolwork with his PDDad and there is no activity just lots of TV and gaming. But there was not really any activity before all this happened. Next week our elearning starts but not very hopeful for my DS8 to be able to sit and complete a lot of assignments. We've been doing some stuff but mostly it's been freeform learning and lots of dog walking and too many screens.

[pushit]

Latchkey - We started eLearning today, and I found out that I'm a world class juggler!  Three kids (4,7,9) and one parent.  D9 did fine, knew how to login and complete assignments, just didn't want to do them.     D7 all of a sudden had to do everything online when she'd rarely done computer work before, and we had a struggle this morning with technology.  It was very trying for a few hours and then once I figured out all the logins and passwords for D7 it wasn't that bad.  Thankfully, S4 was running around in his underwear with a cape (blanket) and shouting at all of us.  Extremely helpful!   

For us, the class work is limited and not that hard.  We knocked out a few lessons, and now D7 knows how to login to her apps, so tomorrow should go better.  I wish you luck!

This is a trying time for all of us.  Serenity Now!!!   

[cant turn back]

Mine has been ok thus far.
After her week with her dad DD16 came to me with no drama, and on Monday, she went back to his house again, as expected.
I do have to say my week of quarantine with DD16 was wonderful.  We had fun binging tv shows (Tiger King! and we finished watching the latest Project Runway season). We cooked and baked.  We walked the dog, we painted terra cotta pots, hooked up my new Alexa and sang out loud together to Taylor Swift and Lady Gaga... among lots of other fun stuff.  It was like Christmas morning everyday, pajamas all day, nowhere to go, nothing to do.  It was a good week.
Then she left ... 
One thing that transpired while she was with me: One afternoon I asked her if she wanted to go with me to the Starbucks drive-through and just get a treat.  She looked at me weirdly and said "actually dad is at Starbucks right now in the drive-through waiting in line, and he's getting me a drink, and he's going to bring it to me."  I was kind of quiet, I didn't know how to respond.  But it really pissed me off, as we really don't go anywhere or do anything whatsoever outside of the house and this one tiny activity that I wanted to do, and it was being taken away by him, and his insecurities and selfishness. It was clear, via her behavior to me that she was trying to make it up to me by being extra attentive and sweet. It was awkward. That was on Friday. And then Sunday AND Monday he did it again. Bringing her these drinks. During my custodial time he's bringing her drinks to my house.  He has never done that before.  My ExH is not a coffee drinker. There was no doubt that he was going to Starbucks solely to get something for DD16.  Which really pisses me off even more, because it's not like he was at Starbucks for himself and just grabbing something for her. He was purposefully getting in his car going to Starbucks to get her something to bring to my house.   On the one hand it is just a nice gesture not a big deal. On the other hand it's like he's beyond desperate to remain relevant with her, totally insecure, inserting himself during my custodial time.  To her I'm sure it's just like "whatever dad if you want to bring me a Starbucks I'm all for it.  Just means I get Starbucks". But I can tell definitely by the way she acts when she's with me that she feels weird about it, like she has to make it up to me. Like she knows it's somehow wrong or weird.  I wish I could play it off a little more nonchalantly so she didn't feel like she needed to act that way. I guess my poker face is not strong enough.
If this happens again next week, and I find out he is at Starbucks to get her something to bring to my house, I'm going to put my own order in, as if: "if he's bringing you something maybe I could get an iced tea or a cake pop".. Then, make him struggle with how to respond to that because no way in hell does he want to bring me any food. However is he going to be the bad guy and tell her know that he's not going to do it, when he knows damn well he shouldn't be bringing her anything to eat at my house to begin with (but I recognize this is putting her in the middle of stupid drama, I'm sure she already recognizes that him doing this is not right...)...
This is completely absurd and ridiculous, or am I just being petty?

[sevenyears]

Everyone, thanks for your feedback. It sounds like, given the circumstances of social distancing with a PD in one's life, it's going as well as can be expected in most cases. AOD, I hope you get some time with your DS! In my case, a few things happened that made the situation bearable: first, when shelter in place was first enacted formally, children of separated parents were expected to stay with only one parent. I got PD XH to sign an agreement in mediation that he (we) would continue to transfer the children anyway. A couple of days after our agreement, the authorities anyway made an exception for children of divorced parents to shelter in both places, and, while we can only leave our houses for a limited number of reasons, the authorities never enacted a complete quarantine/lockdown. So, that took some of the pressure off.

We are now entering week 4 of shelter in place. While PD is still up to his games and gaslighting, he has been reasonably behaved. For my part, I LOVE spending all this extra time with my children. Yes, we are all running high with cabin fever, and related frustrations from being cooped up and all the uncertainties facing children. But, still, somehow, the time together is wonderful.

I do worry about my children each week with PD XH UOCPD. He does not handle stress well - it often morphs into anger. And, his world is probably feeling pretty out of control right now + the added stress of being with young children 24/7 for a week. His pressure valve was taking the kids outside for a few hours in the afternoon to play with the neighborhood kids while he socialized with their parents no longer exists in these circumstances.  The mediators pushed him hard during our last session on Friday, right after the kids transferred to him. One mediator kept pointing out his gaslighting of me; the other told him he is mentally ill. I just hope he doesn't take out his frustration/anger on the children. I'm worried, and at the same time I'm trying to be hopeful that he can keep his sh@t together while they are with him and not have a meltdown.

[Associate of Daniel]

My uNPD exH has a quadruple wammy happening.

1:  The usual term holidays. He always disregulates around holidays.

2:  Covid 19

3:  Working from home, cooped up in a 2 bedroom apartment with his uNPD wife and our teenage son.

4:  His Nanna just died.

Then add the wammy of his ex wife (me) doing the unforgivable thing of expecting to stick to the court orders.

It's as expected.  Out of 22 holiday nights he's expecting me go have ds13 for only 2.

Our government has always encouraged seperated parents to stick to their court orders/holiday care arrangements during the pandemic.

We've been self isolating and I'm well. There's no reason for ds to not spend his allocated time with me.

But the pds are encouraging him to stand up for what he "wants".  Ie:  to only be with them.

How do I explain to ds13 why he can't just live with whoever he "wants" to live?

I've said no to his father so now they've put it on ds. He texted me yesterday telling me that he WILL be returning to his uNPD dad on xday.  It was his uNPD dad's arrogance through and through. 

I don't know which is sadder.  Seeing his uNPD dad acting like a teenager, or seeing his uNPD dad encouraging him to act that way as though it's the adult, mature way of dealing with things.

I pick ds up tomorrow.   

His return date has not yet been agreed upon, despite uNPD exH and ds13 ordering me that  it will be xday.

What do I say to ds?

When will the blinkers come off his eyes and make him see the reality of his uNPD father and uNPD smum?

AOD

[sevenyears]

Oh AOD I'm so sorry that your Ex is manipulating your DS. I don't know what you can say to him. Maybe appeal to his sense of fairness? You know he loves both of you so he gets to spend time with both of you? How much you love him and want to hear about his life? New school? That he'll go back to his father refreshed after a change of scenery with you? You can/should remind your undp exh about the court orders. If your DS is like many teens though, a bit of rebellion is the best reason not to do something - in this case, spend time with you. So, enforcing court orders, even if it is your right, could make him resentful. I'm sure this is very difficult 

[Penny Lane]

Hi everyone,
I've been avoiding the internet for obvious reasons and it's good to be back and hear from you all in this thread.

Over here, BM is alternating between being fine/distracted by other stress, trying to lord it over DH that her job is essential ( he doesn't care?) and making choices that clearly don't follow the shelter in place rules. Like letting the kids go over to the neighbor's house, or running to the store to pick up clearly nonessential items.

DH and I are trying so so hard to do everything right for the sake of public health. And the truth is that doing everything right probably means that the kids stay at one house or the other. And they should stay at our house, where we're not interacting with people, as opposed to her house, where they're at risk of getting infected. But that's not going to happen, she will never agree to that (nor would DH agree to let them stay with her the whole time).

So, we're trying to make the best of it and enjoy the time with the kids, as frustrating as she is.

AOD, when BM tells the kids that they need to stay with her longer, we just tell them no. That's not how this works, the rules are that you come back at X time (or in your case go back at Y time). Your mom and I agreed to these rules and now we ALL have to follow them. It's not your choice here. The kids get made, but once they calm down I think they appreciate the structure. I hope your situation works out.

[Latchkey]

@can't turn back-- how is it going this week? I think if her Dad is disrupting your special time that creating a new thing or treat for her is better than getting your stress level up with this. I think it is disruptive but likely not worth raising it as an issue.

@sevenyears-- I am glad to hear the exchanges are going ok. I too worry about the stress with my PDex, some days he is dropping my DS off and he looks really haggard. I know at his house his kids, my son's half siblings, are not as easy going as DS8 and they are struggling. I also have no idea how my DS' step mom is doing. Before all this, she was locking herself in the bedroom already so likely my DS is not seeing much difference.

@AOD- good grief! Keep us posted. I don't know what to say, but enjoy thoroughly the time you are with your DS. In times of high stress it's usually best to really keep an eye on your DS and see how he is doing. My kids seem a lot less stressed than the adults I know. If you sense he is being coerced and he is under a lot of stress then I think raising an issue might be more warranted. I don't have answers. Just virtual hug. 

@Penny-  I am sorry about the neighbor visits and the non-essential trips and the ever present stress of not knowing what to expect. My kids are doing ok, kind of settled into a routine. I hope your kids as well. Though I will say the e-learning we have here is a lot to do/learn/manage on top of everything else.

[sevenyears]

oh goodness. I'm rereading this all again. Sorry, I must have been on a different planet last time!

Pushit - I'm glad your kids weren't seriously sick, sorry about the unnecessary drama, and glad that you are out too.
Cantturnback, I'm also sorry about the Starbucks. I understand how frustrating stuff like that is.

AOD - keep us posted. My fingers are crossed for you.

Penny - my uocpd xh is also letting the children play with neighbors. While they are playing outside, I doubt they are social distancing. The father of one child is an ambulance driver, and the father of another two works for the interior ministry in a critical position and takes the metro to work each day - an hour each way, Of course, rules apply to others, not him. If the tables were turned, he would be making such a stink. But, what really gets my blood boiling is that he refused to take our son to the doctor to be checked for chickenpox last Feb - because he didn't want to unnecessarily expose him to germs! 

[Penny Lane]

I meant to say this in my last post -
CTB this is the kind of thing that PDs are so good at. Reaaaaally walking that line of "it's definitely inappropriate, but you will look petty if you bring it up."

When this sort of thing comes up DH and I usually go around and around trying to think of the right way to respond. Often by then BM gives up because she's not getting the attention she wants from DH, or she gets bored of being nice to someone else. I love the idea of putting in your own order, whether or not you go through with it I got a good laugh imagining a PD's reaction!

Hope everyone had a good week and is able to have as relaxing of a weekend as possible, under the circumstances.

[Associate of Daniel]

I ended up having ds for 5 nights out of 9 (technically should have been 11).  4 nights to be made up over the next holidays.

We had a really lovely, relaxing time.   My beautiful boy.

AOD