Using Coronavirus to hs own advantage

[_apparentlywicked]

Hope the op went well 123 and that your wife's recover is super speedy. I also hope your dad finally realises there are other people in the world with needs and wants just like his.😁

How are you managing the working from home. I'm having to learn Python so I can help with homework! 😳

[p123]

Hope the op went well 123 and that your wife's recover is super speedy. I also hope your dad finally realises there are other people in the world with needs and wants just like his.😁

How are you managing the working from home. I'm having to learn Python so I can help with homework! 😳

Yes Dad is going to do my head in I can see it. Even more. He does not give a monkeys. He tried to say "phone me every day" earlier. Not getting on that horse fella! I'll do it once then it'll be demanded.
Oh and he had to say it "Surprised she went through with it still. Well, well, well I don't know what shes thinking". Do you ever get a massive urge to just scream down the phone a long tirade of swear words? I do lol.

Yes shes out after the OP and it all went ok.

Not a fan of wfh. I've been REALLY busy......
I'm a self employed consultant rather than an employee so I'm wary of not skiving because of the money it costs them lol. BUT I'm grateful I can still WFH.

Not brill with kids at home though.

I don't know python (despite working in IT!) either. 30 years since I left college- COBOL then.

[nanotech]

I'm so glad your wife's had her op and it's gone well!  If it had been postponed, goodness knows when she would have had it done!
You're handling your dad fine. Feelings are feelings though and it's good that you acknowledge them. It's upsetting when the PDs display little empathy for our loved ones, and act annoyed when, heaven forbid, ours spouses/ children are ill and need extra tlc.

Wish I knew what to tell you.  I just ignore it these days. My dad is my dad and that's it. Not gonna change.

[_apparentlywicked]

Oh and he had to say it "Surprised she went through with it still. Well, well, well I don't know what shes thinking". Do you ever get a massive urge to just scream down the phone a long tirade of swear words? I do lol.

I have numerous examples of dad saying these sorts of faux knowing things as if he's the true expert on everything and you have to listen to it knowing he's actually almost the most stupid person I've ever known. I've seen where my dad's logic and reasoning leads so he can shove it.

How's the wife today?

❤️❤️

[p123]

thanks all shes fine. Visited last night. All going well.

Im just ignoring him. He says things that are so nuts, you can't take it seriously. Sometimes I just think "do you really think I'm ever going to say - you know what Dad you're right, thanks for the great advice?" Never in a million years....

Not ringing him today. Not starting it.

[Free2Bme]

p123,

This could be an awesome opportunity for you, providence, a chance to shift away from orbiting around your dad to orbiting around wife, and your own life.  Blame it on Covid, wifes surgery and care, "doing my part dad to keep from exposing you", "NO, I won't be able to ____",  and turn this thing around where you are not giving away all of your power and energy, instead are the one in the driver's seat in regards to how you spend your resources (time, energy, emotions, money, etc.)

We train people as to what to expect from us.  Just like any other bad habit, it can be broken and replaced with new, healthy habits. 

Hoping you and wife will be able to rest in coming days in peace.

[nanotech]

It's so difficult. As long as your dad has food and warmth then it's better for him that you don't visit. It makes no common sense that you should visit him.
Keep strong!
Ignore any jibes he throws at you.

[p123]

Phoned him today - its unbelievable....

He actually said "Its OK you don't have to come this weekend, I'll see you next weekend". Eh? Hang on now, even if it wasnt for the virus I told him theres no chance since wifes just of hospital, and its not clever for week after. That him - he normalises things and its the "hell or high water" again. (Covid isnt hell enough!)

His "need cash" excuse is gone. His meals on wheels are now billing people and refusing to take cash. No surprise there!

I explained Ive got kids - I am high risk, you do not want to get this. Brother has no kids and lives a mile away yet he wants me to drive 30 mins each way.

Best one "so brother is not coming in the house is he?" "No he puts the food/paper on the stair life and sends it up". So you want me to leave my wife who can't walk properly for 6-8 weeks, risk driving to you when I'm not supposed to, just so you can talk to me from the top of the stairs? I don't get it.

Pretty sure its a case of "prove you'll do it for me" rather than any sort of need for anything...

I guess theres a lot of people out there so upset they can only speak to elderly parents by phone and are glad to speak to them. I'm dreading speaking to Dad every 2-3 days because of all the stupid things he expects.

[WomanInterrupted]

If you don't want to talk to him every 2- 3 days, don't call.     

It really IS that simple - and *you are in control.*       

If you worry he's going to blow up your phone with fake emergencies - I got a letter from the bank about the terms changing; call me now, now, RIGHT NOW!!!!!        - block his number and call only when YOU want to, and hopefully at a time that's inconvenient to him, like Sunday evening, about 10 minutes before you know he's going to go to bed.   

Calling during can't-miss sporting events works well, too.  They'll do just about anything to get you off the phone.     

Explaining why you can't - JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain) ONLY gets blow-back, holes picked in your reasoning/logic, invalidation (I can't believe you or your wife did this, that, the other    ), guilt about not thinking of HIM (he's old, alone, can't walk, bad knees or the thing he can't can't register because he's existence is so one-note:  He's not the only one cooped up in the house.  We are ALL cooped up in the house!)        

He doesn't care about your explanations so don't explain - if he's going to twist everything you say to his advantage or thinks he's manipulating you to do what he wants, leave it at, "Dad, I'll see what I can do, but I can't promise anything."     

No matter what he says about making a big effort or  any other nonsense, do NOT shake from that line:   You'll see what you can do, but you can't promise anything.   

Often, you'll find what you can do is NOTHING but keep his phone on block until the next time you think you can stomach calling him in maybe a few weeks or so - after he's had a chance for your brother to do something, or find another dupe willing to take on his care and upkeep.

Your dad THINKS he is your responsibility but he's not and like any other waif, he's notoriously hard to shake, so you really do have to force the issue, put up boundaries, use Medium Chill, harden your heart, look to your own family and decide, "THIS is what I'm fighting for.  This right here.  It's not perfect and we're all a little too close for comfort right now, but I wouldn't have it any other way." 

If you told your father your wife, kids and cat fell off the face of the earth, the ONLY thing he'd have to say is, "Now you have more time for ME." 

If you told him you lost your job, he'd probably say, "How are you going to support me?  You can move in here, but I don't know what we're going to do about money." 

And yes - I KNOW! - he's like Ray in that he's got a nice tidy chunk 'o change that suddenly disappears when he's got to spend any of it - and I HAVE noticed your father is doing that more and more lately, which is another way to abuse you and keep you tied to him.

UnBPD  Didi and unNPD Ray each tried it with me and I wasn't having it. I'd see what I could do, but couldn't promise anything - and what I could do was promptly forget they asked me to buy things for them, knowing I'd either never be paid back or have to chase them down for the better part of a month, only to be paid back in part because the item I bought/service I procured was WRONG or not exactly what they wanted.     

Another thing that helped me was to STOP giving choices. 

I'm coming at 5.

I'm leaving at 6.

I'm ordering your groceries online.

If you refuse delivery, I'm not coming to shop for you.

I'm practicing social distance.

I can't help you.

We are ALL cooped up in the house, dad.  You're no different from anybody else.   

If you need anything, call Brother.

Dad - stop that.  It's not going to work.

Calling BS on their manipulation with such a simple line can work wonders - one of the effects it had on unBPD Didi was to shut her up (I could hear her trying not to gasp) and THEN slam the phone down - which was also manipulation, but Didi really never was all that bright. 

Didi was also *extremely* passive-aggressive and asking what I meant might actually give her an answer she couldn't accept, so slamming the phone down  and pretending it didn't happen, while ramping up her efforts  was her preferred mode of operation, which meant she was even MORE helpless, infirm, feeble and confused.

I'd offer a solution or two which would always be shot down  in a game of, "Yes, but..." - so I'd tell her, "I don't know what to tell you, but I'm sure you'll figure something out..." - and I'd hang up if she didn't slam the phone down on me, first.

Your dad may not be as P/A as Didi and might ask WHAT you mean by that?  Stop what?  Doing WHAT?  WHAT could you possibly mean?????   

Take a deep breath and say, "Goodbye dad.  I'll talk to you later."   

But I don't think that'll happen because it's TOO direct.  I think Suddenly!  He won't be able to hear you and the line will go dead - or he might fake a heart attack/stroke/fall/other health emergency he expects YOU to come fix for him - or a combination of both.   

If it's just the line "going dead" - hang up and call when YOU deem yourself good and ready (hopefully at least a few weeks).  If it's an "emergency" or "emergency" and the line is "going dead/he can't hear you" - call an ambulance and stay OUT of it.

ALL of it.   

But your dad will probably be like Didi and Ray and shock you with how shallow he really is in not caring who he puts at risk.  Coronavirus, shmaronavirus!  ME ME ME ME MEEEEEEE!   

But it's NOT all about him - and you hold the key to your own cell in your hands.     

     <---- I realize this is a social no-no, but we don't have an emoticon of two people wearing masks, patting each other on the back and saying, "Dobja, dobja!"     

[p123]

Thanks WI - spot on as usual.....

Can I employ you as my personal consultant lol?

I think the goddam detemination and unwillingness to stop is what gets to me most. He is like Dad Terminator. Will not stop EVER until he gets what he wants.

[Kiki81]

Keep it simple:

"(Wife's name) comes first. Whatever she needs comes first. Her health comes first. Before you."

[nanotech]

PDs can't empathise and if they haven't had that experience it's even worse. Your dad for whatever reason, hasn't had a lasting marriage.
To cope with that possible ' failure' in the eyes of others he has to devalue it as an institution, and invalidate women.
He walks round believing in that and it helps him. Your brother's lifestyle, though truly volatile and irresponsible, mirrors your dad's  past life more closely.
ERGO your dad's narc radar kicks in and he validates HIM  over you, because THAT'S what raises his own self -esteem.
The better YOU do in life, the more his self -worth shrinks- it's a PD thing.
It's dreadful.   
It's one of the saddest aspects of having a narcissistic parent.

When I passed my A levels, I was buzzing and I went to speak to dad about it, hoping for some approval. My dad was sitting down looking rather despondent, he didn't get up to greet or hug, Khadem to go to him,  and that surprised me . He looked at me unsmiling and said flatly,

'Well now you've  done better than me,'

What followed was me having to console my dad and listen about why he never got the chance to take them, and why that wasn't his fault!
I basically had to subsume my excitement and apologise for my success. I had the distinct feeling that I'd upset him more by achieving them than if I hadn't passed them.
He hadn't minded me passing my O levels as that was on  a par with his own level of study. They like you to do well, but not to outshine them as they see it.
So I'm thinking maybe there is your dad, safe in the feeling that marriage and women are bad ideas.......
then up you YOU pop with your happy and supportive marriage and your shared, responsible parenting , and he feels the teeth of a grinding conflict.
Just take what you want and leave the rest. I could be up narc creek without a  paddle for all I know . But you get the drift,,,😊

[p123]

PDs can't empathise and if they haven't had that experience it's even worse. Your dad for whatever reason, hasn't had a lasting marriage.
To cope with that possible ' failure' in the eyes of others he has to devalue it as an institution, and invalidate women.
He walks round believing in that and it helps him. Your brother's lifestyle, though truly volatile and irresponsible, mirrors your dad's  past life more closely.
ERGO your dad's narc radar kicks in and he validates HIM  over you, because THAT'S what raises his own self -esteem.
The better YOU do in life, the more his self -worth shrinks- it's a PD thing.
It's dreadful.   
It's one of the saddest aspects of having a narcissistic parent.

When I passed my A levels, I was buzzing and I went to speak to dad about it, hoping for some approval. My dad was sitting down looking rather despondent, he didn't get up to greet or hug, Khadem to go to him,  and that surprised me . He looked at me unsmiling and said flatly,

'Well now you've  done better than me,'

What followed was me having to console my dad and listen about why he never got the chance to take them, and why that wasn't his fault!
I basically had to subsume my excitement and apologise for my success. I had the distinct feeling that I'd upset him more by achieving them than if I hadn't passed them.
He hadn't minded me passing my O levels as that was on  a par with his own level of study. They like you to do well, but not to outshine them as they see it.
So I'm thinking maybe there is your dad, safe in the feeling that marriage and women are bad ideas.......
then up you YOU pop with your happy and supportive marriage and your shared, responsible parenting , and he feels the teeth of a grinding conflict.
Just take what you want and leave the rest. I could be up narc creek without a  paddle for all I know . But you get the drift,,,😊

Oh yes Dads attitude to women is well weird to say the least. In the past I've had "dont tell women anything they dont understand" and worryingly been told a few time "I need to sort my wife out and do whatever it takes to make her listen" Wow.....

Yeh childcare is his classic. Womans job end of.

[p123]

PDs can't empathise and if they haven't had that experience it's even worse. Your dad for whatever reason, hasn't had a lasting marriage.
To cope with that possible ' failure' in the eyes of others he has to devalue it as an institution, and invalidate women.
He walks round believing in that and it helps him. Your brother's lifestyle, though truly volatile and irresponsible, mirrors your dad's  past life more closely.
ERGO your dad's narc radar kicks in and he validates HIM  over you, because THAT'S what raises his own self -esteem.
The better YOU do in life, the more his self -worth shrinks- it's a PD thing.
It's dreadful.   
It's one of the saddest aspects of having a narcissistic parent.

When I passed my A levels, I was buzzing and I went to speak to dad about it, hoping for some approval. My dad was sitting down looking rather despondent, he didn't get up to greet or hug, Khadem to go to him,  and that surprised me . He looked at me unsmiling and said flatly,

'Well now you've  done better than me,'

What followed was me having to console my dad and listen about why he never got the chance to take them, and why that wasn't his fault!
I basically had to subsume my excitement and apologise for my success. I had the distinct feeling that I'd upset him more by achieving them than if I hadn't passed them.
He hadn't minded me passing my O levels as that was on  a par with his own level of study. They like you to do well, but not to outshine them as they see it.
So I'm thinking maybe there is your dad, safe in the feeling that marriage and women are bad ideas.......
then up you YOU pop with your happy and supportive marriage and your shared, responsible parenting , and he feels the teeth of a grinding conflict.
Just take what you want and leave the rest. I could be up narc creek without a  paddle for all I know . But you get the drift,,,😊

Another thing with Dad is my job,

He worked in a factory all his life. Brother does a manual type job.
I've got a college degree and work in IT in an office and do well. In his head I'm "one of them", a pencil pusher who does nothing whereas the workers in the factory do all the work.

Others in the past have commented that Dad often mentions how hard my brother works but doesnt mention me ever.

[M0009803]

I can't visit you. It's against the rules. I could be a carrier and not know it.  I'm staying away from all elderly people. It's for your own safety.

This it the gold right here.  Remind him that many people will be carriers and have mild symptoms.  The more often we go out, the more people we interact with, the more we spread this pandemic. 

I am sorry but not surprised about his reaction to your wife's upcoming knee surgery.  If anything, I would also use that as an extended excuse to get out of doing anything.  If it were me I'd say that she is going though with the surgery as planned and that you will be attending to her needs as long as it takes....and milk that for all that it is worth.

No I guess I'm not surprised. Last few years when I've gone on holiday hes said something like "Oh dear, oh dear what am I going to do?" then a day later he'll call me and say "Its OK I'll manage - you can go away". Eh? Cant remember asking your permission? Last year when I phoned him after 2 days away he even started one call "Now I don't want you to worry but I had to call the doctor out yesterday". It was SO obvious that he wanted to force home the point that he was so ill and I was going away and leaving him. I worried for less than the time it took to disconnect the call.

Its as if I'm not allowed to have a life, its all got to be done on his terms...

Well, wife will be on crutches for 8 weeks. Not sure how long not driving. Luckily its her left leg and we have an automatic (not all cars in the uk are automatic) so its better.
Of course, Dad wont give a monkeys - his attitude will be "serves her right if shes stuck in now, she knew p had me to look after".

I'll be honest, never have I seen someone who would be better off than Dad in a nursing home. He is basically just a big baby who wants attention all the time.

Given that your dad is in one of the "at risk" groups in the UK, I am not sure why you are even having this kind of talk with him.

You essentially have the perfect reason for not visiting him for at least 12 weeks here in the UK (possibly even longer).

The one thing you can do is document his behaviors as he twists himself into a pretzel trying to get his bottomless pit of needs met.

I think that after these few months of not interacting with him, and seeing his behaviors from a more detached distance, you'll be able to let go of him (and his antics) in the future.

[nanotech]

I can't visit you. It's against the rules. I could be a carrier and not know it.  I'm staying away from all elderly people. It's for your own safety.

This it the gold right here.  Remind him that many people will be carriers and have mild symptoms.  The more often we go out, the more people we interact with, the more we spread this pandemic. 

I am sorry but not surprised about his reaction to your wife's upcoming knee surgery.  If anything, I would also use that as an extended excuse to get out of doing anything.  If it were me I'd say that she is going though with the surgery as planned and that you will be attending to her needs as long as it takes....and milk that for all that it is worth.

No I guess I'm not surprised. Last few years when I've gone on holiday hes said something like "Oh dear, oh dear what am I going to do?" then a day later he'll call me and say "Its OK I'll manage - you can go away". Eh? Cant remember asking your permission? Last year when I phoned him after 2 days away he even started one call "Now I don't want you to worry but I had to call the doctor out yesterday". It was SO obvious that he wanted to force home the point that he was so ill and I was going away and leaving him. I worried for less than the time it took to disconnect the call.

Its as if I'm not allowed to have a life, its all got to be done on his terms...

Well, wife will be on crutches for 8 weeks. Not sure how long not driving. Luckily its her left leg and we have an automatic (not all cars in the uk are automatic) so its better.
Of course, Dad wont give a monkeys - his attitude will be "serves her right if shes stuck in now, she knew p had me to look after".

I'll be honest, never have I seen someone who would be better off than Dad in a nursing home. He is basically just a big baby who wants attention all the time.

Given that your dad is in one of the "at risk" groups in the UK, I am not sure why you are even having this kind of talk with him.

You essentially have the perfect reason for not visiting him for at least 12 weeks here in the UK (possibly even longer).

The one thing you can do is document his behaviors as he twists himself into a pretzel trying to get his bottomless pit of needs met.

I think that after these few months of not interacting with him, and seeing his behaviors from a more detached distance, you'll be able to let go of him (and his antics) in the future.

Yes it is the perfect excuse not to see him! And it's an act of love on your part not to see him, because it keeps him safer.

[p123]

I can't visit you. It's against the rules. I could be a carrier and not know it.  I'm staying away from all elderly people. It's for your own safety.

This it the gold right here.  Remind him that many people will be carriers and have mild symptoms.  The more often we go out, the more people we interact with, the more we spread this pandemic. 

I am sorry but not surprised about his reaction to your wife's upcoming knee surgery.  If anything, I would also use that as an extended excuse to get out of doing anything.  If it were me I'd say that she is going though with the surgery as planned and that you will be attending to her needs as long as it takes....and milk that for all that it is worth.

No I guess I'm not surprised. Last few years when I've gone on holiday hes said something like "Oh dear, oh dear what am I going to do?" then a day later he'll call me and say "Its OK I'll manage - you can go away". Eh? Cant remember asking your permission? Last year when I phoned him after 2 days away he even started one call "Now I don't want you to worry but I had to call the doctor out yesterday". It was SO obvious that he wanted to force home the point that he was so ill and I was going away and leaving him. I worried for less than the time it took to disconnect the call.

Its as if I'm not allowed to have a life, its all got to be done on his terms...

Well, wife will be on crutches for 8 weeks. Not sure how long not driving. Luckily its her left leg and we have an automatic (not all cars in the uk are automatic) so its better.
Of course, Dad wont give a monkeys - his attitude will be "serves her right if shes stuck in now, she knew p had me to look after".

I'll be honest, never have I seen someone who would be better off than Dad in a nursing home. He is basically just a big baby who wants attention all the time.

Given that your dad is in one of the "at risk" groups in the UK, I am not sure why you are even having this kind of talk with him.

You essentially have the perfect reason for not visiting him for at least 12 weeks here in the UK (possibly even longer).

The one thing you can do is document his behaviors as he twists himself into a pretzel trying to get his bottomless pit of needs met.

I think that after these few months of not interacting with him, and seeing his behaviors from a more detached distance, you'll be able to let go of him (and his antics) in the future.

Yes of course he is. But now hes decided he wants me to visit even if it means standing at the bottom the stairs to his flat. And putting the odd few items on the chairlift and sending them up.
Nothing he really needs from me that my brother can't do. Yeh he wants me to drive 30 mins each way anyway i.e. he wants BOTH of us to visit still.

Its definitely more of the "getting me to do it" thing rather than he needs anything to be honest...

[nanotech]

That's daft. Really daft. And it truly shows it's the supply he needs, not the foodstuffs!
Tbh my dad's not being like this and the phone calls are okay. I did put the work in a few years ago though in terms of not accepting certain behaviours. Since the whole  getting ill at the funeral thing he doesn't seem to try the waifing thing now. I had to refuse to drop everything and go there when he was flapping madly about his health. He said he was dangerously ill and he needed me. I knew he wasn't. It's not mentioned now, but he hasn't done it since.

[_apparentlywicked]

P123 I wouldn't take any stock in his opinions because they will all change all the time according to how he feels in that moment. He doesn't have a set of values like you do in your head such as 'honesty is valuable' or any manner of norms. He only has one, it's that he is super important and more important than anyone. That's where it ends and begins. He can't do anything else. If he thinks it will make him look good/you look bad to say xyz he will but will also say the opposite 5 minutes later to someone else.  It's an overused phrase but they really are quite full of s##t.

There is nothing to argue with. Your words mean nothing to him. You are wasting your energy. You can't reach the part of his brain that can learn. That's the truth.

How's the wife today?

❤️❤️

[p123]

Do you know what I don't think he does it deliberately more like he "needs" me to visit without a reason?

Spoke to him a few days ago and said "look im not coming for two weeks because I've been in a hospital and its high risk. Even then we'll have to see how things are, and then only in an emergency, and I'm not coming in".

Yesterday he said "so when you visit a week on sunday, I'll move the chair to the other side of the room so you can still visit" Eh?