Question about affection feeling forced

[Dinah-sore]

Hi guys, I hope you are all well and healthy, and you have enough food and supplies. I have two questions, and I will make two posts.

The first question has to do with some emotional disregulation that I am feeling in regards to touch from my DH. I am upset with him still. Things have not gotten better or resolved, but he is just doing what he always does and waiting until I forget about it and act normal again. Except what I am noticing now, is that it feels like he is almost forcing me to get over it, by forcing himself on me with affection. (there is not a trigger warning, I don't mean sexually).

For example, if I am laying in bed next to my daughter watching TV, he will come in and lean over me, block the TV and stare at me. Then he may lay where he puts his weight on me or just stare at me. Last night he did this but then he would kiss me. I wasn't kissing him back and I was moving my head around trying to see the TV. I didn't want to hurt his feelings, but I don't feel comfortable with that behavior next to my 12 year old daughter who was right there. He wouldn't stop.

The thing that bothers me is that he could tell I wasn't into it. I didn't feel affection. He could tell that his affection wasn't making me feel loved. I think he might have even known that it made me uncomfortable, but he didn't stop. I do have a freeze response and it is hard for me to say no, and he knows this. But I have said no in the past, especially when the kids are around. and then he acts pouty or like I am ridiculous.

Another example, a few weeks ago I asked him if he could help me plug in an electrical cord into an outlet under a desk. I misspoke and said, "Can you go down?" But I was handing him the cord and he knew what I meant. He said, "Ooooh, I would love to." and acted all gross making sounds and all. I have teenagers, who were in the room. I hate it when he does that, especially now that my oldest would certainly know what he was referring too. And this was while we are going through our marriage troubles.

He won't be there for me emotionally, or help me with the kids and the problems they are having, but I feel like it is so intrusive and demanding and rude of him to force affection on me. Especially because I don't feel the AFFECTION behind it.

I mentioned that I don't like this behavior around the kids. I don't mind a big hug and a big peck, but he never gives me that. It is always a butt grab or a boob grab, or a perverted joke. But what also bothers me is if my kids see I am uncomfortable with the touch, and I put up with it without saying no. I don't want them to feel one day, how I feel right now. And think they can't say no.

And I can say no, but then he gets upset. I do sometimes say no, but I try to blame it on something else, like I have to get up to pee or do something.

This probably sounds horrible. There are probably so many women who want husbands to be more affectionate. And I feel like I am one of them. I want affection, but I feel like he is treating me like a sexual object, and not someone he loves with all his heart. And the dysregulated part of me thinks that it is not healthy for me to tune out and go along with it, even when my body doesn't want it. It makes me feel almost the same way I felt in other situations in the past with people who actually did assault me. And I dont' think people should feel that in a healthy marriage and just try to ignore it. I have actually been having a panic attack since last night, and I think this is why.

Also, I just want to mention that this is all in the context of some pretty serious conflicts and problems in our marriage. If we were doing well and happy, and we didn't have major problems, I would be blessed and feel loved (except not around the kids).

Do you have any thoughts, advice, or corrections for me?

[D.Dan]

Sounds like coercion.

My ex did a lot of this. The boob grab (by putting his hand unexpectedly down the front of my shirt), butt grab, pulling my shirt down to look at my breasts, shoving his hands up my shirt to try and undo my bra and boob grab from behind (again, unexpectedly and while I was busy with chores or diaper changes), shoving his hands down the back of my pants for a butt grab (a couple of times he did it in front of my uPDmom while saying he was checking my diaper! I was washing dishes!), and actually grabbing a breast while I was breastfeeding saying "mine!"

I felt like I was just raped after every single time because it was completely unwanted. But I thought it was my job to make sure he was sexually pleasured to keep him happy. I was naive. (My uPDex did in fact rape me but I didn't know it was rape until almost 5 years later, he did it while I was sleeping)

I've read and been told by others that this type behaviour is objectifying someone. It did seem like my ex was treating me like a favourite sex toy or blow up doll. Treating me like an object. This what it seems like your DH is doing to you.

I don't know if you're ready for this yet, but you could always call a DV hotline. The DV group I got help from knew a lot about coercion. And If your wondering why I mentioned this, it's because coercion is a form of abuse. It's forcing someone to do something they don't want to do. I'm sorry I don't have any other advice, I only know that I didn't realize how bad this behaviour was until I spoke to my counsellor, and CFS (CPS here), and the DV people, so I recommend reaching out to people that can help you.

I'm so sorry this happened. 

[tragedy or hope]

Dinah,
I get it. this happens to me when undph feels i am slipping away from his control. i find that a simple attentive moment or reply will get him away. i say something nice to kind of change the subject. remember their focus is themselves. the attention toward you is about them.

ie; thanks so much for ----- whatever you have to say, or think something up that is as genuine as possible. "oh, aren't you affectionate this evening." you may have to move away period. or something like, "oh, aren't you silly, no time for that now..." it takes practice.
i  get kissed when i am eating often. i have learned to push my plate away. i have no clue why he does this other than he can't stand i am giving my food attention.

I also say, "I need you to move, I am not comfortable." or "I have to go to the bathroom, excuse me." i try not to be too impatient, it is a small issue that can cause ww3 which i may not want to address right then.

with children we do have to make some sacrifices to spare them the weirdness. i have even said,"what are you doing? are you bored? I haven't done anything to get this kind of attention." with as little emotion as possible.

the biggest help to me is that i have learned it is about them not you. the need for feed is so great they must find it in someone and you my dear are the chosen victim. if you are staying in your relationship, beat him at his own game. your reactions, even veiled anger are what he is after. any reaction to him is better than none. the more emotional, the more feed he gets. try medium chill while you are being positive.

i use as few words as possible and try to be kind without selling my soul. their need is insatiable but mine backs away with little tidbits of praise. it sounds terrible but if you give them a little treat all about them, most of the time you can stave off some of the other weirdness.

when i find a positive to say when my undph is in that mode, a grin comes on his face and i know i will be in good shape for awhile.

sometimes i have gone out of the room from a different entryway when I see him coming and even walk faster when he is coming up on me until i am away. i also will say, look i have to do----- i don't have time right now. or please don't stop me in the middle of what i am doing, i don't do it to you, it is common courtesy. he get's pissy and weird, but i get my freedom and he gets over it.

my heart goes out to you. you can do this. you are no longer a victim if you are on this site, you are taking charge now. once i got here i realized the power i have to make my life better even if he does not change.

[Frankie14]

Sounds like coercion.


I've read and been told by others that this type behaviour is objectifying someone. It did seem like my ex was treating me like a favourite sex toy or blow up doll. Treating me like an object. This what it seems like your DH is doing to you.

This is about the same as what I have been dealing with; it took me a decade to see the 'marriage' for what it really was; H married me to have a house to live in, which was mine.  I was supposed to be his - house, ATM machine and sex doll...while he was OOC in every way, not working, sleeping, napping, laid off, drunk, gaining weight, the 'vows' were said as a lockdown for for me to have no voice of my own and provide for him and submit to him... he was to dominate and try to control me in every way; even down to where I went, badgering me where were you, as he came and went as a married bachelor.

Every No I said was met with a tantrum...so I would give in; which is coercive control..

Another example, a few weeks ago I asked him if he could help me plug in an electrical cord into an outlet under a desk. I misspoke and said, "Can you go down?" But I was handing him the cord and he knew what I meant. He said, "Ooooh, I would love to." and acted all gross making sounds and all. I have teenagers, who were in the room. I hate it when he does that, especially now that my oldest would certainly know what he was referring too. And this was while we are going through our marriage troubles.

I mentioned that I don't like this behavior around the kids. I don't mind a big hug and a big peck, but he never gives me that. It is always a butt grab or a boob grab, or a perverted joke. But what also bothers me is if my kids see I am uncomfortable with the touch, and I put up with it without saying no. I don't want them to feel one day, how I feel right now. And think they can't say no.

Also, I just want to mention that this is all in the context of some pretty serious conflicts and problems in our marriage. If we were doing well and happy, and we didn't have major problems, I would be blessed and feel loved (except not around the kids).

This probably sounds horrible. There are probably so many women who want husbands to be more affectionate.

I will start with the last quote...that's not affection...that's your H entitlement, man-handling you, coercive control (google it) is the staring, leaning on you, and my H has done all this and more DURING VERY VERY bad portions of the marriage...

When we shared a bed - he would grope me and try to have sex with the sleeping me, I would awaken to find him trying to have sex with me (NOT very often, but it happened SEVERAL x early in the marriage).  When I would say, hey I am asleep, or no or push him away, he would have a man'trum, saying "he was married now, and it was his right to have sex with HIS WIFE."  I remember thinking - this cannot be right, I married in my 30's, I knew better....I have not slept in a bed with him in almost 10 years due to this and his total disregard for my sleep, or having any privacy for myself in my own home.

My H is not a screaming angry PD, he is a moping, whining, self pitying PD, who has flashes of anger, my H has gone broke during the marriage due to chronic under or unemployment...leading to him moping "I'm a loser" and "you can't stand me" then trying to grope me if I walk by, grabbing boobs, grabbing butt...he's trying to make himself feel better by getting my attention by groping me which is not ALLOWED he is not ENTITLED TO TOUCH ME ESPECIALLY during times of extreme marital discord.

Because the gropes and grabs DO NOT STOP when I have asked to STOP - I now have to immediately upon my H entering my home, change into baggy sweat pants and a baggy fleece jacket.  If I wear ANYTHING tight or revealing in anyway, he will make lude comments even in front of my 13 and 9 year old boys..

I will backstory this with; my H embarked on TWO of my dealbreakers (to stay married) in the past 8 months, he DROVE children while drunk in July, and he raided our son's college fund in September - he raided it - because he is chronically underemployed...I solely pay for my home, and all contents, lawn, the boys extra circ activities.

We have not had sex in 8 months since those two DEALBREAKER incidents, I have NO interest in him and am NOT attracted to H in anyway, he is an alcoholic man child to me, not a real man.  He is constantly whining he 'needs support, understanding, money,' but never once supported me in ANY way since he moved in.

I have seen an attorney and may or may not file divorce, so to say we are not in a good place in the marriage is an understatement.

That the past 8 months - since the dealbreakers - he has kept up his lude innuendo, weekly badgering me for sex..is in an of itself bizarre...we are in no place for sex in this marriage - when I have discussed divorce and I saw an attorney but H does not let up.

3 weeks ago, I was handing H a water bottle for our 9 year old and he quickly grabbed my boob and I said ARE YOU CRAZY, what is WRONG WITH YOU...our son is right there, he said, I am just trying to 'get it on.'

2 weeks ago - our sons were at a birthday party when my H came home from work - he said where are the boys, I said at a birthday party and he said, "good, lets do it," I said do what, I was literally in the middle of MOPPING the floor...and he said DO IT, HAVE SEX, I AM PENT UP, I WANT TO DO IT, and I ripped him to shreds over the driving kids drunk and the college fund missing...

I had female surgery 8 weeks ago and 1 week after the surgery he said he was 'pent up' and 'wanted sex,' I said no, first of all, NO I DON'T WANT TO and 2nd of all I was told no sex, no tampons, for 6 weeks..so he started calling me names, like 'whatever you say roomie' and 'pal' and 'good night pal' see you tomorrow ROOMIE, in front of our kids...

A week ago - we were setting up a TV in our son's playroom - and he said "maybe we can do it this weekend" and raised his eye brows like he was in a porno flick; he says this literally as I was handing him a cord for the TV set up.  When I said no, he said, "so who are you outsourcing to?"  I said go to a hooker and walked away...


I am sorry this is happening to so many of us; but it makes me feel better I am not the only one...

I try to keep at least 4-5 feet away from H due to his groping or grabbing me, I know I cannot bend down even to get laundry or pick something up for my kids if he is near me, because he will grope me. 

I am sorry you are dealing with this, but no it is not affection and I don't believe this is normal behavior from a non PD husband.

Even tho I have told him I saw an attorney, even tho he knows he did the DEALBREAKERS, he still feels entitled to grope me, and harass me for sex...I don't even know what that behavior is called...

[intotheblack]

Interesting what you said about him getting in front of you when you are watching TV. My uNPD wife used to do this frequently and i never ever felt that it was a genuinely affectionate move - if anything it felt more like attention seeking behaviour OR a provocative attempt to irritate/annoy. Normal or at least genuine seeming affectionate moments were few and far between, yet if i was sitting doing something (ie work at home, watching TV) she would do that whole getting in your face/front of you thing as if she was being affectionate when it was clearly not what she was doing.

[Lauren17]

Dinah-sore, I'm so sorry that you are going through this. Everything you've described was my life for almost 20 years. The groping. The innuendo. Being chased through the house. Him initiating sex while I was sleeping. I still change clothes as quickly as possible with a ball of fear in my stomach while doing so. It's so hard to explain to others.
When I first started working and learned about work place sexual harassment I told him that's what he was doing to me. We were so young then and I was still deep in the FOG. He laughed and said it couldn't be. Because I was his wife. 
One day, uBPDh just stopped this behavior. He will say, in his sad/serious voice. "I used to be affectionate with you. I don't do that any more."  I don't know why. And I don't try to find out.
I only learned the term sexual coercion about a year ago. Please research that term. I've found good info on womenshealth.gov
D.Dan is right in recommending you contact a DV hotline. I know I should too, but haven't yet found the strength. Be kind to yourself.

[SeaBreeze]

I'm always sorry to hear others are dealing with this particular form of abuse. I've actually been told by uNPDh, as he's groping me while out for an evening walk in the neighborhood, or by the stove while I'm cooking with hot splattering grease, or I'm driving in heavy traffic, etc etc etc...that most women are happy their husband of whatever-plus years still finds them attractive. I guess he thinks he is speaking for all women...??

He also combined sleep deprivation with sexual coercion for YEARS until I finally declared separate bedrooms a year ago. There are still issues since he tries to coerce me outside of the bedroom (don't even get me started on our current COVID at-home situation which is now on week 2...) But at least I sleep better at night now.

I have worked very hard on boundaries outside of the bedroom, but that is one area where it just really falls on deaf ears and he will not compromise or stop. When he does respect them, he makes sure to throw in jabs like "Oh yeah, sorry, forgot I'm not supposed to show you affection". He cannot (or will not) differentiate between patting my shoulder versus my butt, or squeezing my hand versus my breast. Physical distance honestly has been the best boundary, but as I described above he often likes to "show affection" in situations where I cannot walk away from him. Snapping at him only starts an argument; freezing up like a statue seems to make no difference to him. Very thankful for my separate bedroom at least!

[losingmyself]

Yes! The groping at home is one thing, every single chance he gets. But the groping in public.... I have managed to reduce it a little, but still, boob grab when I'm walking through a door that he's holding, boob grab when we're standing in the street saying goodbye at lunchtime, grabbing and holding onto my butt through the grocery store. Ugh!
His comment when I say anything is "you're so embarrassed of me" also "You just don't want people to know we're together, you're looking for another guy"
Boy, if anyone has a way to stop this, I would love to hear it.
Funny thing is, he used to brag about how I'm a lady, and how nice that is.. sure, a lady wants to walk around the store with a hand on her ass...

[Fae Greenwood]

It's not affection. It's ownership. My uNPDh has played this game on and off for our entire marriage.

Once we stepped into a glass elevator one evening on the way to his work event and as soon as the doors closed he said that it would be great if I got to my knees and gave him a you-know-what. My immediate response was not-gonna-happen and why would you ask me to do that? He got mad and played the rejection card. I realized later that it wasn't about feeling close to me or loving me or delighting in intimacy with me, it was about everyone else being able to see his privilege. That I was in my 40's, obese, the mother of his children, and on the way to a work social event didn't matter. In his mind, he's the guy at the club with all the women all over him doing everything possible to please him. Over time I had to set oh-so-fun boundaries. No, I was not having sex in the tent while camping with our kids. No, I was not ruining dinner for our four kids to run upstairs for a quickie. No, I'm not having sex in the hot tub in full view of the neighbor's windows and yards. No, you cannot rub my chest in the church parking lot. No, you cannot put my hand on your crotch during church service (nope not kidding). I usually gave him a smile and said later as soon as we're private. Every time he responded that I'd rejected him sexually and I usually got the silent treatment followed by anger that I promised him later and didn't follow through with my "promise" so that was fun.

It's not love. It's about making you his boat. Years earlier, I had a light-bulb moment. We are driving on a crowded highway and he suddenly announced that he wanted to buy a boat. We don't fish or swim and we live fairly far from water. I asked him why he wanted a boat. He replied that he could tow it behind the car and everybody would look at him and say "look that guy has a boat." Then they'd drive past the house and see the boat parked there and say "look that guy has a boat." We wouldn't actually take the boat out anywhere, he just wanted people to see that he had a boat. It was about building a facade for strangers. "Hey, he's got money and time for a boat. I bet he can fish, and swim, and has lots of friends that he does fun things with. He's an awesome guy. I wish I could be like him."

He's too cheap to actually buy expensive toys so that's good, but my god you should hear his comments while he's poring over the real estate section.

[Medowynd]

My exUDPD was in a wheelchair and would use it to corner me with his grabbing.  I actually jumped out a first floor window to avoid him.  This guy was such an egotist, that he thought grabbing his sisters' bums and bosoms was acceptable.  No matter how many times they brushed him off, he didn't stop.  I also developed a push away technique with my foot to his wheelchair to get him away from me.  Last I heard, he's 80 yrs old and still trying to grab at women.

[11JB68]

I've experienced some of this with my uocpdh also... I've started to comment here a few times and have stopped. Not going to give details right now as it seems too personal... But yes I've experienced this, and I think when it happens in marriage we're conditioned to think it's ok.  I think someone mentioned coercive control and yes I think that term fits perfectly