Here we go again!

[Dodo]

Well we had another fight, I'm not so sure if it's a fight as just fighting words.  We both say things, my partner seems to be able to dish it out but can't take anything.  Right now he is so upset with me and thinks I'm awful and I always have to get my own way! he moved into the spare room and this has never happened before, we are both fed up but don't seem to know how to break up!   He thinks I have a personality disorder....funny because this is why I joined this site is because I was having such a hard time understanding and dealing with him and his emotions and now he is turning it around, (of course i have never told him I belong to this site). We alway seem to get along for about a month or so and then have a blow out again, I feel that in the long run this relationship will not work , (he is straight, attention seeking, demanding and won't budge, I'm more of a free spirit and adventurous or maybe not so adventurous but want to experience life still ,  he is so set in his ways but i'm having such a hard time dealing with it.  I wish I could be stronger but always cave.  I want a different life for myself, help!

[Tinkerbell12]

Dodo, I totally get you. I have just the same here.

- double standards. he hurts you with his words, says what he wants, but when you say something back, oh how dare you!

- a normal healthy difference in opinion = you have to have things your way or you are dominating him (in his head).

- you get pushed your buttons and upset = you have mental issues, disorder, anger problems, who could ever live with you!!

- for me it goes in a timescale circles too. If I try my best to agree with whatever he wants, all is good. Once I have my opinion not to his liking, oh dear. Grumpy face. Also, every month he finds something to critize me for, something new, something he observed. On and on it goes.

I don't know how to get out of this relationship either. It feels I want to prove and prove more I'm not as bad etc as he is telling me I am. It's some feeling of shame, weird guilt?

Good luck, set yourself free!!

[Mikeb44]

I can see how this feels like a trap. I experience it too.

None of the fights actually feel like fighting. They feel like words being thrown at me in the most hurtful way and then I just say what I need ot say and move on. It also happens in a cyclical timeline where after a blow up, its about a 2-3 week cycle where I know another one is coming and it could be anything. I also understand the need to get out. My PD and I have a child so II feel trapped for that reason. They make you feel as if you are too blame and in hearing that enough, you feel as if you might be to blame. Checking in here is the only thing that keeps me relatively grounded.

I would not suggest this to anyone but if you are willing to weather the fallout, I have started calling their bluffs. Like if my PD threatens divorce, I say go for it. If they threaten to kick me out, I say its my place too and  am not leaving. so on...

I am sure its not helping anything but with my PD the JADE isn't really working and Medium Chill just pisses them off more to release an anger that makes life tough to move forward in.

I hope you find that reason for why you need to be you and just follow it. Its the healthiest thing for you!

[Dodo]

So nice to have the support of people on the site, I totally need it.  It seems so hard to break up we done so many times but never follow through with it (and we have only been together 3 years 4 months) but lets just say its been rocky.  I know things will never change with him but as my sister in law said "you must have feelings for him". Yes I do because when its good its good but we are so incompatible but we have chemistry or something is going on.   He can be very sweet but when he's rotten he's rotten.  I keep thinking that in the long run it will not work but it is such a bad time right now to break up.  Tinkerbell said it is all  "double standards" all the way, he says "well when I'm like that why can't you just ignore me."  I can see when having a child will keep you in a bad relationship,  but both my partner and myself have grown up children.  I must say over time my feeling are becoming less and less and one day they may not be there anymore.

[ICantThinkOfAName]

"well when I'm like that why can't you just ignore me." 

That my friend is the biggest trap of all.  Mine used to say it to me until I said, "Well then how do I know if you are being nutty or being serious?  I assume you want me to take you seriously and not just decide to never take you serious?"

Because honestly mine is "like that" whether he is in a bad mood or has a legitimate complaint.  One thing I did hear recently is that it's not really the complaint that is the problem, it's the bad behavior used in bringing it up.  Like the yelling or guilt tripping.  Whether or not a relationship is viable has nothing to do with whether his complaint was actually a real one, but how they behave when they bring it up.   In a good relationship, hopefully one partner would bring up issues in a non angry, non judgmental and unhateful way.  The problem is not the issues... it's the behavior used to address the issues.  I think they are really good at pointing the finger, "well you didn't buy my hot sauce at the store so you don't love me!"  Many of us would react with defensiveness cause you don't want to be thought of as cold.  When in reality, the problem there is not the forgotten hot sauce, but the behavior that demands you give them love and guilts you for perceived lack of love.  And one step further to that... who wants love that has to be begged for.  Sorry for the side track.  This forum really helps me to think out loud.  I can't really talk about this with anyone else or bounce this off anyone else. 

[IDM-41692]

My wife has BPD and I have experienced similar things. One of the classics is she accuses me of what she does. It's a brilliant, albeit evil, arguing strategy. She's called me a borderline, called me a narcissist. She accuses me of turning things around on her when I'm turning them back to the truth. The thing that is so frustrating is when we fight we have very different views of reality. So when a disagreement comes up, we rarely get to the disagreement and it's mostly about debating the facts. It's very frustrating. And she's very crafty at avoiding a topic: changes the subject, won't answer questions, says she doesn't want to be with me anymore, tells me to lower my voice. She's gone to therapy and the intense episodes are very rare now which is good. But I'm not sure if she has truly made progress. She doesn't seem to show any consistent insight about herself. When things were more intense, she used to apologize. Now the episodes are milder, but when they end, it's never discussed and if I ask about it, she'll insist I'm to blame. It's a rough thing.

[Dodo]

 if I say anything derogatory I'm pushing his buttons but he goes on and on and I'm suppose to ignore it.  Funny really but it is honestly easier not to say anything and then when I'm silent he says I don't communicate!!!
"very different views of reality", this is how I feel a lot of the time.  When we did engage in arguments, they would go around in circles and end up back at the beginning, talk about a circular argument, wow we would be the poster couple for that.  I don't do that anymore, too exhausting! 

[heron]

The thing that is so frustrating is when we fight we have very different views of reality. So when a disagreement comes up, we rarely get to the disagreement and it's mostly about debating the facts. It's very frustrating.

I hear you (and OP) on this "different views of reality". With everyone else in my life, I can explore when this happens, we can put our heads together and see why we have such different views. With uBPD DW, the views are so different, and both of us get really mad when one person insists their's is the truth (yes, I do this sometimes, I have a lot more work on myself to do). The views can be really different sometimes, not just about what happened, but what it means, what's normal, what's effective.

Like not just what happened, but even how to open a can or how to stir hot chocolate, she will insist that my way is wrong and doesn't work right (?) even if I've done it my whole life with no problem! I think it really drives home the JADE lesson. People can't reason with each other when they don't share a view of reality.

[IDM-41692]

[/quote]

With everyone else in my life, I can explore when this happens, we can put our heads together and see why we have such different views. With uBPD DW, the views are so different, and both of us get really mad
[/quote]

I have a theory on the different views of reality. I believe it's a case of mutual gaslighting. When I look at my wife's face when we disagree, I can see she really believes it. So, from her point of view she feels like she's being gaslighted. She'll often say "I feel like I'm going crazy". I don't think she is doing it to mess with me, I think she really believes it.

[IDM-41692]

With uBPD DW, the views are so different, and both of us get really mad when one person insists their's is the truth (yes, I do this sometimes, I have a lot more work on myself to do). The views can be really different sometimes, not just about what happened, but what it means, what's normal, what's effective.

I'm not sure I figured out to insert a quote, so sorry if it's not right. I wanted to comment on something you said Dodo when talked about "when one person insists theirs is the truth (yes, I do this sometimes...)"

This is what is interesting about BPD. In general, I believe no one has a lock on reality and everyone is entitled to their own perception. I think that is a good rule to guide me. If you take to the extreme, anyone can say anything. When two people say things that are complete opposite, they can't both be true. I sometimes think this idea of allowing everyone their own perception gives the BPD license to say anything. While I do my best to say things like "I can't comment on that because we see reality so much different". But there are times when I say "This just isn't true". I sometimes think my wife needs to hear that. I know she's not a bully, but she uses bully tactics. I find that my sense of fairness and my effort to be consistent sometimes work against me. Instead making her want to be fair and consistent, she exploits it. When I admit I'm wrong, she treats like everything I've ever done is wrong and she's never done anything wrong.

Anyway, just one man's experience...