Would this be considered a diagnosis ?

[Free2Bme]

Moderators- not sure where to ask this question, feel free to re-lo.


Just wondering if what my T told me about xH qualifies as a diagnosis.  Prior and during divorce, H and I attended T with a veteran counselor.  This T has many credentials, 40 years experience, and wrote a book on NPD.  I continued T w/him during and post-divorce for a while.  This T never came right out and said "I'm formerly diagnosing your H with NPD", but indicated to me (in solo T) that he firmly believed H had this disorder.  He gave me a copy of his book and told me my H was a sadist and was demonstrating behavior that my H wanted to "destroy" me.  He encouraged me to hang tough through divorce/recovery and not go back to H. 

I know having a Dx doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, I know what I experienced (H meets 9/9 of criteria and is highly anti social) and I don't really need a formal Dx. 
Somewhere in my head I can still hear H telling me "it's all in your head Free2Bme!", "you are crazy, unstable, xyz", the gaslighting, DARVO, etc.
I haven't had a support system, and I guess I am still wanting validation for what I went through.

As I reread this, this feels yucky, like I want some sort of trophy.  Now, I'm questioning my own motives. 

[GettingOOTF]

Wanting a trophy is one way to read it but so is wanting and needing validation.  It’s completely understandable that you’d want a label for his behavior.

When my ex was diagnosed with BPD it was such a relief as we had a starting point and could make a plan to get him better. I was so naive and knew nothing about PDs. 

Is it a formal diagnosis? No. No one diagnose someone who isn’t a patient. But personally I think many people have enough experience of certain things to be able to recognize and identify them.

It’s not something you could legally use and I wouldn’t bring it up with him but I think, and again this is my personal view, that it’s information you can use to educate your decisions on how to interact with him and how you deal with what happened in the marriage.

Ultimately my exes diagnosis helped me leave as I saw how futile expecting any real changes was. It also helped absolve me somewhat of the guilt I felt leaving him.

For me I do better when I have explanations for things, it helps me see how I wasn’t to blame in the case of the abuse.  The diagnosis helped me move on.

[Jsinjin]

I have to be honest that  I don't know enough about the medical diagnosis of disorders.    The therapists and mental health doctors along the specialty world use the DSM-5 to make a diagnosis and the actual diagnosis means something when it is declared by a credentialed professional who has evaluated a patient according to the methods and determined that someone has a disorder or is on a "spectrum" for that disorder if applicable.   The diagnosis is important for future treatment and in some cases legal claims.   It's typically not possible to diagnose someone in absence of the actual formal interview or filling out the diagnosis surveys and having observations performed.   Imagine a future legal proceeding where a legal professional asks a mental health professional "did you formally evaluate Mr. X?"    If the answer is no then the formal diagnosis is probably not valid.   That's why it's easier for a doc to say "patient has a broken leg" and any other doctor come to the same diagnosis.   For a PD you have to do the actual interview and assessment to reach the conclusion even though it's obvious to a spouse that this person has a problem.   My psychiatrist and counselor independently concluded my spouse has a personality disorder and interestingly enough a separate counselor hired to help my daughter with depression and anxiety formally diagnosed my daughter with OCPD.  Given that the individual with the PD often sees them self in this group of people as not having a problem it is likely that many PD individuals go their while lives without formal diagnoses.   As a non PD spouse or significant other we can typically only receive consolation in the form of  places like Out of the FOG where others share similar experiences to help validate the behavior as being wrong and help structure support for our responses.

I would classify your therapists support, counseling, advice and observations as a diagnosis and recommendation for you and not as an actual diagnosis for your spouse.    I tend to refer to my spouse as uOCPDw which is undiagnosed OCPD wife.

At least here that translates to "yup, her behavior is not normal and probably not healthy for you" with nods from those who have been there.

So I'm nodding for you!!!

[Kat54]

I went through a similar experience with my Therapist. My ex and I started out together going at my urging. His behavior was abusive to me and our 2 kids, more emotional and verbal. I could never put into words what he was doing but I knew I needed some help and hopefully save our marriage. The therapist was a Phd Psychologist and many many years experience. 
She never formally diagnosed him but she encouraged me to leave him in so many ways and words. She wanted to see us separately until she felt it was a good time to see us together. When I was alone with her she told me he is an un diagnosed narcissist and he needed a lot of therapy. She gave me a great book to read on verbal abuse and Narcissism. The things going on in the marriage was a result of his crazy behavior and I was the victim of an abusive marriage. The only way to save anything was for him to step up and get therapy and acknowledge his role in the marriage. All of which he absolutely refused, said she was crazy and I got F'd up in the head from her. And all this was not his problem. 
It would of been better to have an official diagnosis but she was one smart therapist, she saw right through him. I don't have to get validated, its just good to be out. He's an uNPD.

[Free2Bme]

Thanks to all for the feedback...

The takeaway is although this T counseled H and I (and the kids), T's comments may not add up to a formal diagnosis.  (I am not even sure what that process involves) 

When I think of the collective responses I received from various T's over 25 years that H and I saw, I see common threads.  I will have to be satisfied with this and what I know to be true.  Sometimes I think I 'need' something to move forward (like a diagnosis), and really I don't.

I'm determined to overcome what has happened.  I don't want to lose anymore of my life, time, energy to PD nonsense-  life is too precious.