Furniture...I know, a weird topic.

[35andnewlife]

Hey all,

Hope everyone is staying safe and sane during this time. 

Okay...I have a question about furniture. I have been NC since last summer with no intention of resuming contact. I have a lot of furniture in my house, some of it nice, that was gifted to me by my parents and grandparents. Stuff is a big deal to my parents, especially my dad...and as you all probably know, gifts aren't really gifts...so I feel like all of this furniture is on permanent loan, and not mine to do with as I please. But seeing it reminds me of what I have lost, the image of a normal family. I feel like my parents are in my head more because I get constant reminders of them from this stuff staring at me, especially being housebound due to the coronavirus.

I don't want to resume contact just to give them back the furniture. DH says its just stuff, sell it or donate it, and that its my choice, but I feel horribly guilty about the thought of even getting rid of it. But I know I need to. And Lord knows they don't need more stuff than they already have.

Any ideas on what to do? I want to do the right thing. Not the revengeful thing and not the cowardly thing either. But I know it needs to be gone.

Thanks all, everyone take care during this crazy time. 

[Sidney37]

It's not an unusual question at all.   I asked a similar one.   Most of the wood furniture, dishes, utensils, etc. in my house were either from my grandparent's or parent's house or a gift from one of them.  Not my style or choice.  It makes me so mad just to look at it. I have a large piece of furniture that was a wedding gift from my parents that I don't even like.  I see it every day.  It infuriates me to see it.

So I get it.   The furniture and other items that were gifts, I was in the process of donating and selling when the virus hit.   The stuff that belonged to my grandmother and great grandmother is going to storage while I think about what to do with it.  One piece I like.  I might keep it.

I also get how they are about "stuff".   My mom brought a bunch of kitchen stuff to me when I bought my house - candy dishes, butter dishes, scotch glasses, etc.   I didn't want them and wasn't going to use them.   She sent my dad hours in a truck to dump boxes of this stuff in my garage.   When she was here a few years later, she flipped when she saw a butter dish that she received as a wedding gift 40+ years ago in a box for donation.   She demanded that we keep all of the stuff.   One item is wooden, has peeling lead paint and is rotting.  I told her she could pack it into her car and take it home.  She refused.  She made my dad haul it all to my attic (which i don't really use).   It's still there and DH and I will have to clean it all out.

[Sidney37]

Oh and the stuff she flipped out about... she had never used it.   She doesn't drink, doesn't sit candy dishes out, never used the butter dish.   Some of the items were in their original boxes from 40+ years ago.   Still she demanded that I keep them.  We 've been VLC/NC for a year.   The stuff is not staying in my house.

[Boat Babe]

If you dont need the money, donate to a charity. That should assuage any guilt you might feel. Good luck.

[GettingOOTF]

A couple of years into my journey out of thick FOG I came to realize than when people, or even I said "it's the right thing to do" it was very rarely the right thing for me.

What do you feel most comfortable doing? That's the right thing. Getting rid of stuff is a process and a very emotional one.

Do you have somewhere you can store it so you don't have to see it in your space everyday? Not seeing it may help with the transition. If you can afford it you could also put it in storage for a bit.

I would also offer this - making your space more livable and more of a reflection of your life and desires is not in anyway vengeful.

[Morocha2015]

I completely understand what you're going through! My parents talked a lot about how important stuff is even though their house is trashed and they don't take care of anything. They love to unload their junk on me, even though twice I've begged them not to. There was a bedroom suite they forced upon me from my great grandmother. It's hideous and worthless, but my F talked about it so much I felt incredibly guilty getting rid of it even after going NC. The mirror on it broke in a move, and I thought about how furious he would be if he found out. Finally DH convinced me to haul it out to the curb for the trash. I put a free sign on it just in case someone wanted it, but of course no one did. It rained overnight and I was terrified thinking about what my F would think if he drove by and saw it. In the end it cost us more to have it hauled away than what it was worth.

A few months later I have no regrets. It's actually helped me realize they really aren't present in my life anymore. It's glorious.

[Andeza]

I'm going to suggest something that may sound odd. Hoarding by proxy.

We've heard of Munchausen's (factitious disorder) by proxy, but what about hoarding? Is it possible that pd parents are essentially using their children like a free storage unit to hoard their crap? They don't have to look at it, trip over it, don't have to feel guilty about not using it, and don't have to face the very real and impossible scenario of disposing of the junk. It just sits at someone else's house, collecting dust, and using up space. If we assume this is the case, then keeping this stuff means that we are enabling their hoarding behavior.

Regardless, I hope everyone here can eventually be free of any and all guilt about things. These things do not equal or replace the love and affection we should have been given all along. Instead, these things are used as simply a leash to keep us in line because of "all the things they've ever done/given us." As GettingOOTF said, getting rid of stuff can be an emotional process, and if it's what you really want, there's no reason to rush it unless you want to.

If you know you don't want stuff in your life because either the association with it is unbearable, or it's just not your style, donating it to a goodwill or similar is perfectly fine. You could attempt to sell the nicer pieces as well, then reinvest the money into what you actually want. All viable options, all perfectly reasonable. Not vengeful. It's not like you're chucking the piano out the window saying "Take that!" That would vengeful, and messy, and really really loud probably.

Take care of yourselves everyone!

[Call Me Cordelia]

I like what was said about hoarding by proxy. In my family my PD grandparents strongly identified their stuff as an extension of themselves, as well as their children. Rejecting their stuff was rejecting THEM.

This is copied from another thread if it sounds familiar to anyone. But I think it would be helpful to you newlife. At least I hope so! You are FAR from alone in having your mother's heirlooms becoming merely your baggage.

Story time! My NBIL made us this bizarre "toy box". It was such an awkward size. Tall enough that my very tall husband's feet wouldn't touch the floor when he sat on it. So a small child could never have reached to put toys in or out. The decorative pieces of wood in different stains were poorly joined so there was a possibility of getting splinters. The hinged lid wouldn't open more than a few inches because of this other wooden piece emblazoned with our family name. And the thing weighed about 200 lbs. What a thoughtful gift! 

Well we kept that monster for years. Mostly down in the basement of death. But hauled it up when the family was due for their tour of judgment, I mean annual visit. We even moved it long distance when we relocated. The crazy things we do from FOG. 

After we'd gone NC we naturally wanted it gone. There was no way we could donate this thing. Not fair to Goodwill, since no one on earth could use this. Couldn't even burn it there was so much shellac on it. (But not enough to get all the splinters. ) I thought about taking an axe to it in the style of the final scene of Office Space, but didn't want to freak out the neighbors. And I wasn't giving it the dignity of putting in that kind of effort.

In the end we dragged it to the curb on big stuff trash day. DH and I hid and giggled like children at the trash men swearing about the weight of it. They shoved it in the back of the truck. As it drove away, the compacter came down on top of it and splintered our family name, then the damn lid popped open. Like it should have in the first place. And then the whole thing was simply gone, smashed and out of sight. It was one of the more satisfying moments of my life. 

[35andnewlife]

I just want to thank everyone for your responses. I keep reading them over and over again.

I am so glad that I am not alone in this issue. I usually judge myself like come on newlife, it's just stuff!

My parents are hoarders no doubt, and my enF basically lives in a mausoleum of stuff from his parents. I think that is part of the reason he never seems to move on from abusive grandfather's death.

I really, really want to move out West and not bring any family stuff with me. I will keep reading your response to help with fighting the panic that I feel. I am almost 40 and I am still worried about getting into TROUBLE for getting rid of their stuff.

And I totally agree about the proxy idea, I think when they were unable to part with things, they just gave them to me as a way to avoid saying goodbye to stuff.

Thanks all. 

[GentleSoul]

I relate to the "hoarding by proxy".    I experienced similar.

What I did was donate to a charity that had meaning to me.

[Andeza]

I got thinking about this more last night as I was falling alseep and it hit me. This is just a continuation of pd parents inability to deal with their own emotions. We're used to seeing them foist off any and all unpleasant emotions upon us, their victims/children because they cannot process their own stuff. They want to unload all the negativity on someone else because it's the only way they know how to deal with it. Similarly, the furniture is attached to emotions that they have absolutely no capacity to handle. Therefore, they foist furniture and other stuff off onto others, complete with emotional baggage that means we don't really enjoy the "gift." Weaponization of "stuff" at its finest unfortunately.

[BeanerJane]

When my BPDm moved out of her house into her tiny apartment she couldn't bear to throw away anything.  Being the dutiful daughter I moved it all into a storage facility (at my own expense) and paid $125/month to store her precious antiques.  About a year later we moved into a house with a walk up third floor attic.  All that stuff in storage went into my attic, well - most of it.  There were a few things that had to be tossed to make it all fit.  The ancient vacuum cleaner for example.  Sometimes I could swear she had telepathy (or maybe she was stalking).  The week we threw that vacuum cleaner away she called asking me to bring it to her.  Her other vacuum had broken and she needed this one!  Rather than tell her the truth - I had to make room for the rest of her hoard in my home so I tossed an ancient hoover - I told her the dog chewed the hose and it was unusable right now. 

Years later when our relationship was in its final throes of dissolution she brought up that vacuum as an illustration of how I used and abused her.  Her gripe was that I had let the dog chew the hose and never even offered to replace it for her!!   

Recently I finally cleared the last of her crap out of my house.  Seeing those wing back chairs and dark wood tables drive off in the ReStore van was glorious.  Walking through my house and seeing my own things and wonderful empty space is so peaceful. 

[Sidney37]

 
Hoarding by proxy!  Yes!!!!    I hadn't even thought about this before now.  Thank you for helping me come to a revelation!  This makes so much sense to me!

My uPDm is not a hoarder at her OWN house.  Now that I think back, my grandmother and grandmother's sister lived in a large house that had been in the family for several generations with a huge basement, huge attic and a second floor that hadn't been used in 20+ years.  They lived there until just before I bought my own first house.  That's where all of the family hoarded stuff was kept -  out of sight.  All of the stuff had to be kept, so all of the hoarders in the family put boxes of their stuff at the family house.  You couldn't get rid of anything, you just kept it there.   My UPDm hoarded her stuff and my stuff there over the years, too.  She hoarded gifts she had received and never used, he old clothes and shoes, old furniture, etc.  She saved and hoarded my old clothes, dance dresses, school projects. every school notebook that I didn't manage to throw away without her knowing, art projects, dance shoes.  The other relatives hoarded newspaper articles, old clothes, baby clothes from generations back, old baby blankets with holes in them for generations, everyone's old high chairs, old broken furniture, kids toys, knick knacks, every postcard they ever received, dishes, silverware, broken tools, boxes of funeral signature books and funeral announcements.  The attic, basement and closets on the second floor were packed.  UPDM didn't need to hoard at our house.  She hoarded at the family house!  I had no idea until just now. 

So when they sold grandmother's house, all of the hoarded stuff went to a storage unit.  Another relative helped UPDm clean the hoarded house and he threw a bunch of it in the trash.  She was furious.  When I bought my house, what was left of the hoarded stuff was brough to me and a few things to another relative in a u-haul.  And now that I think about it, UPDm has always been furious that her brother and her cousin have a few things that belonged to their grandparents and other relatives.  UPDm thinks she should have gotten it all.  She was irate that they wouldn't take care of the hoarded heirlooms properly. 

Hoarding by proxy!!!  Who knew this was a thing?

[inHistime]

Andeza... the piano out the window LOL.
Call Me Cordelia...that Toy Box! Hilarious!     
This is definitely a subject I'm curious about. My Gma and M and B are for sure hoarders. My M says she 's been bringing home Gmas stuff "to sort it". OH BOY. My mil too, and definitely the gift is not really a gift. ILS were moving states brought a bunch of literally broken junk to us, asked money for it, she walked around my house and "took back" anything she had given previously she wanted. (most of which she got for free or yard sales) Also gave us "heirlooms" from Gpa. then said but don't thank him, he doesn't know. H was instantly sad, now no good memory, just STOLEN stuff. NC with Ils now, and I don't sweat it if I get rid of things from them now, but I used to. But I'm going to have to deal with a lot of issues with my M's hoard and the expectations to not throw it away.

[Morocha2015]

Your stories are cracking me up! One time my M brought me broken kitchen equipment, a bread maker from the 70s that hadn't been cleaned since it's last use (and I've never seen her make bread in my lifetime!), and a few jars of expired Alfredo sauce. What drives these people to throw out their trash into our homes? So disrespectful! But it makes a good story!

[Serendipity12]

No a weird topic at all - can totally identify. What helped me get rid of stuff without guilt was remembering that a gift is supposed to be just that - transferring all ownership to you. If you no longer want the items, then get rid. And if there is a nagging voice questioning this at the back of your mind ( as there was for me) then it wasn't a gift at all, it was a cluster b Trojan horse of a thing and you're better off without, if that is what makes you more comfortable!

[Liketheducks]

Hoarding by proxy 
I totally identify with that.   And, not just that but....if you have the furniture, your the more loved of the children.   Years ago, I got it ALL.  Now my brothers get it all.    Of course, I'm certain there are discussions amongst them about getting the stuff  back from me.   

There was also this grand drama on the care of the STUFF.    M gave me china and silver.   Didn't really "give" it, but brought it with her when she moved in with me and then left it when she left.   I fully expect someone to call about retrieving it eventually.  I don't care really.     This china and silver, she NEVER used.   It was too good to use.   We'd have Christmas dinner on paper plates instead.   I was frequently admonished that I had to wash it all by hand, line the sink with bath towels before dish soap and water to prevent chipping if I ever used it.
1.  There ARE chips, it's pretty but not perfect or necessarily as valuable as she claims.   2.  I believe that you should USE the good china and silver....enjoy it while you have it.   
I've been hoarding by proxy for years.   I think I'm gonna refinish some pieces, just because I can.   

[Fortuna]

More than hoarding by proxy, I think it is the fact they have no concept of anyone as separate entities, therefore whatever they 'give' you is still theirs since you are an extension of them. And conversely whatever you have is theirs for the same reason. My uNmom gave me flack for getting rid of a rocking chair she had given me. My littlest had put her foot through the seat and I wasn't skilled enough to fix it and didn't have the money to or inclination to do so. I asked if she wanted it back and she got an offended look on her face and then told me I should keep it for the sentimental value.  Offered it on Craigslist and have no regrets. On the flip side, when I was moving I invited her to take already opened food out of my kitchen, instead she took not only a good portion of the opened food but also half of the unopened food in the food pantry donation box (and yes I let her know it was for charity.) In their worldview the things aren't ours to do with as we please, they are always, as with everything else, theirs and only they have the right to do anything with it.

If you break NC to give it back, or ask about it, I don't see it ending well. They will try to guilt you into keeping it and try to work back into your life like before. if you know others from your family of origin that might truly want it you can see if they want it, but even that may get back to them. If the furniture doesn't 'spark joy' then seriously consider removing it from your home, or at least your sight. Good luck I know parting with the baggage they leave us, emotional or physical can be gut-wrenching.