Covid helplessness

[p123]

I guess I'm not the only one getting this.....

Dad seems to have lost the ability to listen to what is on the news, the ability to cook for himself, eat etc.
I get hes lonely, stuck in the house but a lot of people like this.

It was getting worse before the pandemic but this seems to have accelerated things. More and more his problems he seems to think are MY problems to sort out.
Like a lot of people I'd do what I can help my Dad but there are limits.

I can do nothing about this pandemic for now for instance. Hes decided he doesn't want "meals on wheels" delivered any more because "its expensive" and he'd rather I got him some stuff to go in the freezer that he can cook. Not a good time to be changing things Dad! Also, his freezer is full anyway. "Not got the energy to cook" - I CANNOT visit and risk you getting Covid. Also seems to be a bit of strange thing to say after the "meals on wheels" but there we go.

Over the years I've tried to help Dad, many times hes knocked me back. Hes got THOUSANDS of £s in savings but he does not want to spend money. I come up with idea to make his life easier - NOPE if it involves ANY spending of money..... I give up. Any suggestions?

Last few months I've been washing my hands of it all and leaving him to his own devices.... You can lead a horse to water and all that...

[Starboard Song]

I see two opportunities:

• Limit your engagement with him by both time (say, 20 minutes every other day, unless it is an emergency) and channels (say, telephone only).
• And we know you've been building up your strength to endure his questions and complaints with detached bemusement. That's the radical acceptance.

I don't think either of these are easy. But I am reminded of a parenting book I read long ago. This guy was talking to parents of toddler who misbehaved. He'd ask, why don't you expect them to behave? And they'd say "But we do." He disasgreed. No you don't. The parents were baffled. He pointed out: your toddler is 30 inches tall and weighs 28 pounds. They are getting their hands on cookies or toys they aren't supposed to touch. And you are freaking out and yelling and they keep doing it?!? Take control!!

That was this guy talking about toddlers. And I don't mean to say it is so easy. But I do encourage you to adopt and strictly enforce your policy for communicating with your dad. It needn't be hostile, for your part. Checking in for 20 minutes every couple days, or whatever, is plenty. Whatever you pick. And limited the channels is reasonable: some people are afflicted by someone like your dad on every social media platform, text, email, voicemail and everything else.

If you can limit your engagement, maybe then you can focus on the radical acceptance. He asks stupid questions? Fine. He requests the impossible? Say no. When you feel you have a personal space that is impregnable and fulfilling, this poor man's oddities won't be so stressful, maybe.

Good luck. While it is never required to do so, you are making progress.

[nanotech]

It seems as if this is an excuse in order to force you to visit. Food is a really emotive issue and in my experience (and also well documented) that it's often a powerful weapon of choice by PDs.
I think Starboards's advice is excellent.
I'm trying to do this with my own dad at present, to limit calls. The first few weeks were okay, but last week the mask really started slipping.
I've begun to hear the soundtrack to Jaws.
I can't listen any more, because of the extreme negativity and underlying threatening tone of his phonecalls.
We are having to deal with the pandemic too. You have your children off school. I would cut yourself a big break from your dad.
They are never happy. One Day dad complained that he didn't get a call off anyone ALL DAY.
The next day I rang him and he said it wasn't a good time to call. They are contrary whatever you say and do.

Even if you took him food, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be happy. It wouldn't be right, it wouldn't be tasty, the price would be too high or the contents too bland/ spicy/ lumpy/ runny/ and portions would be  too big/ small etc etc
Something and everything would be wrong with the food, the time you arrived wouldn't suit him, etc etc etc.
Every time we give in and comply to one request, it leads on to a string of other things they can find fault with and complain about. A narcissistic trait is to constantly shift the goalposts, so that we are still found wanting.

And anyway, you're not allowed to go at the moment. That may be why he's thinking of cancelling  his meals on wheels so that he could possibly come under the heading of  'elderly relative needing essentials.'  But then that would be down to your brother who lives nearer to him, to attend to,not you.


The best thing I ever did was to stop trying to please my dad. They just mess with your head. Remove your head from the game. Give him few opportunities to bend your ear on the phone.

[FromTheSwamp]

I think this is a situation calling for the broken record technique.
"Dad, you know I can't visit right now."
"Dad, it's up to you whether you cancel Meals on Wheels, but you know I can't visit right now."
"I understand that you're lonely, but you know I can't visit right now."
"I'm sorry to hear that, but you know I can't visit right now."

[WomanInterrupted]

Your dad seems to be upping his game,  to FORCE you into the level of contact *and service* he wants/expects.   

When that happens, you have to look at it not as stupid games, but as a WAR that you *must* win - this is  the war for who controls your life. 

Obviously, YOU want to have the ultimate say, but your dad is going to keep pulling out all the stops in trying to call ALL the shots, with the eventual goal of having you at his beck and call 24/7.

Once your dad starts forcing the issue  like he has, the ONLY option you have is to take a deep breath, put on your best titanium spine and say, "No." 

As Starboard says, don't expect your dad to change - or behave - or do anything other than continue to make everything all about himself to the point of cutting the nose off his face, just to make more work  for you!

You're not going to chase after him, like a toddler, trying to clean up his messes or make things right for him, which is REWARDING his bad behavior and only encourages him to keep acting like an inconsiderate jackass.

And as Nanotech said, your dad has probably wants to  cancel his Meals on Wheels to make your visits *essential* to his survival  - but your food (either the purchase of or cooking/prep) will *never* pass muster.

I think Nanotech and I went to the same dance:  too hot, too spicy, too bland, not like mom used to make, too greasy, too dry, too hot, too cold - always TOO something and never right.  Never, ever, EVER close to right - and if you manage to be close to right, he'll suddenly decide he doesn't like it or doesn't want it again.   

But he'll be more than ready to send you on yet another impossible epicurean quest if you let him.

I've been saying it right along and I'll say it again - you need to call LESS and let him live with the consequences of his  threats/actions by saying NO and standing your ground. 

If your dad tries to blow up  your phone, block him until YOU feel comfortable calling again - and if that's next week, next month, or never, so be it.

Example:  Your dad threatens to stop Meals on Wheels.

You:  "Well, dad, that's up to you, but you'll have to be the one to figure out how to do your shopping and make meals.  I can't do any of that."

Why?

"I just told you, I can't do any of that - I have to go.   I'll talk to you later."

If you have to be a broken record with your answers, as FromTheSwamp suggested, then that's what you DO - without  FOG - or anger.  You just keep repeating yourself until you can get him off the phone.

If he starts blowing up your phone, block him.  It's really the only recourse you have to get peace and quiet - which you deserve.

Your father WILL figure something out between now  and the time you decide to check in again.   If he calls your brother and your brother calls you to lay into you, hang up and block him - permanently.

If your brother shows up at yours, don't let him in - call the police instead and think about how ridiculous it is for him to drive that distance to yours, just to yell at you, instead of driving 1 mile to take care of your father!

What you REALLY have to let go is your father having all that money in the bank.

Yes - I know!  I KNOW!       It's frustrating as hell when you know he's sitting on a substantial chunk 'o change he'll never use and complains about everything being SO expensive, because he remembers The Good Old Days (the 1950's), when you could buy a new house in a nice suburb for $6,000.

Everything compares to that, so the prices now are highway robbery and *yet another excuse* why we should do things FOR them or pay for things FOR them.

It doesn't work like that - his money is there for his own care and comfort and if he doesn't want to spend it, you are NOT responsible to take up the slack.

It's extremely unlikely he'll sit over there, starving  - he'll probably call your brother and anybody else who is still on speaking terms with him - bonus points if he can  use them as a FMM, to give you a thick ear about neglecting your poor, old, sick, lonely faaaaaaather.   

Ignore them and block.  Remind yourself you aren't doing a thing wrong.  We're all in a pandemic, you're following the rules, you have your FOC to care for and who need you, and your father *does* have RESOURCES for the aged that he can utilize - he just doesn't WANT to, because he's behaving like a toddler having a massive wobbler.  He WANTS all your time and attention!

You'll never be able to explain it's impossible, unfair, and unreasonable - concentrate on looking after yourself and your FOC first and all his stuff can go back to his side of the table.

It has to because this is only the opening salvo - he's just going to keep getting worse -needier, clingier, more desperate, more "confused" and "stupid" about everyday things, and for emphasis, he may start calling about not being able to hold his #1s and #2s, or complaining about weird medical problems only you can help with because the hospital won't know what he's talking about.

The emphasis will always be the same:  YOU!  NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry to say but there's no way to break HIM of that habit - but  you CAN break YOU of it.

You are NOT required to set yourself on fire to keep others warm.

[p123]

I see two opportunities:

• Limit your engagement with him by both time (say, 20 minutes every other day, unless it is an emergency) and channels (say, telephone only).
• And we know you've been building up your strength to endure his questions and complaints with detached bemusement. That's the radical acceptance.

I don't think either of these are easy. But I am reminded of a parenting book I read long ago. This guy was talking to parents of toddler who misbehaved. He'd ask, why don't you expect them to behave? And they'd say "But we do." He disasgreed. No you don't. The parents were baffled. He pointed out: your toddler is 30 inches tall and weighs 28 pounds. They are getting their hands on cookies or toys they aren't supposed to touch. And you are freaking out and yelling and they keep doing it?!? Take control!!

That was this guy talking about toddlers. And I don't mean to say it is so easy. But I do encourage you to adopt and strictly enforce your policy for communicating with your dad. It needn't be hostile, for your part. Checking in for 20 minutes every couple days, or whatever, is plenty. Whatever you pick. And limited the channels is reasonable: some people are afflicted by someone like your dad on every social media platform, text, email, voicemail and everything else.

If you can limit your engagement, maybe then you can focus on the radical acceptance. He asks stupid questions? Fine. He requests the impossible? Say no. When you feel you have a personal space that is impregnable and fulfilling, this poor man's oddities won't be so stressful, maybe.

Good luck. While it is never required to do so, you are making progress.

Very good thoughts here... I guess its difficult to think of a grown adult as a toddler but his behaviour is exactly like that....

Yes, phone only with Dad. He rarely phones my mobile either (convinced it costs a fortune to ring "those things") and he does not do internet. I should be grateful.

[p123]

It seems as if this is an excuse in order to force you to visit. Food is a really emotive issue and in my experience (and also well documented) that it's often a powerful weapon of choice by PDs.
I think Starboards's advice is excellent.
I'm trying to do this with my own dad at present, to limit calls. The first few weeks were okay, but last week the mask really started slipping.
I've begun to hear the soundtrack to Jaws.
I can't listen any more, because of the extreme negativity and underlying threatening tone of his phonecalls.
We are having to deal with the pandemic too. You have your children off school. I would cut yourself a big break from your dad.
They are never happy. One Day dad complained that he didn't get a call off anyone ALL DAY.
The next day I rang him and he said it wasn't a good time to call. They are contrary whatever you say and do.

Even if you took him food, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be happy. It wouldn't be right, it wouldn't be tasty, the price would be too high or the contents too bland/ spicy/ lumpy/ runny/ and portions would be  too big/ small etc etc
Something and everything would be wrong with the food, the time you arrived wouldn't suit him, etc etc etc.
Every time we give in and comply to one request, it leads on to a string of other things they can find fault with and complain about. A narcissistic trait is to constantly shift the goalposts, so that we are still found wanting.

And anyway, you're not allowed to go at the moment. That may be why he's thinking of cancelling  his meals on wheels so that he could possibly come under the heading of  'elderly relative needing essentials.'  But then that would be down to your brother who lives nearer to him, to attend to,not you.


The best thing I ever did was to stop trying to please my dad. They just mess with your head. Remove your head from the game. Give him few opportunities to bend your ear on the phone.

Of course, thats his trump card - its like "how could a son leave his elderly Dad all alone with no food".

He manufactures the situation though. He hates having meals on wheels because it covers that base. He hates brother in down the road too. (Brother got made redundant too so isnt working, Im still working - I make sure I mention hes got plenty of time!)

I've offered to get food delivered. ASked him a few times - tell me when its running low. Can guarantee he'll wait until last minute so it wont be possible to order.

[p123]

You are NOT required to set yourself on fire to keep others warm.

Thanks WI - especially like that last bit....

Oh hes tried the lot last few weeks... It seems not even one thing is not there to be manipulated. I've tried not to call him too often because its not pleasant. He wants me to call every day. Umm no - I would if you were pleasant to talk to but otherwise its a no. So I called him Saturday - "make sure you call me tomorrow - sunday is a long day for me". Eh? Its the same length as all the other.... I called him last night. So hes said "call me friday". Nope I'll give him a call sunday maybe.

Hes now (I hope) given up trying to get me to visit - I had all sorts. In the end I said, No I am not allowed to drive across 3 counties to bring you food - when you have someone a mile down the road. I will get fined by the police. He actually expected me to "tell the police I needed to see you". Sure they've not heard that one last few weeks....
Thing is, even my brother is not going in the house. He doesn't need food, yet he wants me to risk a fine to get him MORE food to stand at the bottom of the stairs and not even be able to speak face to face. I don't understand it. There seems to be a definite element of "do it because I want to see you do it" here - thats dad all over.

Do you know what though? I must be one of the few people in the UK who don't want travel restrictions to be lifted! He'll be expecting a visit a day to make up for lost time....

Saying that, any of you in Florida? I'm hopeful for end of August for my holiday....

[lkdrymom]

My father is a pro at 'the helpless game'.  I learned that he loved to shoot down all my suggestions unless they involved ME doing something for him.  You have to learn to throw it back on them.  He'd want me to give him medical advise. I would tell him he needs to talk to his doctor.  I found that a very powerful sentence is "I don't know what to tell you".  They can't argue with it.   If he cancels Meals on Wheels (and normally that won't happen because it requires HIM to do something) and then says he is out of food respond "I don't know what to tell you...why would you cancel them without a back up plan" .  Sometimes you have to let people live the consequences of their actions.  A week of eating food that is not his favorite will not kill him.  And he might learn the meaning of cutting off his nose to spite his face.  It is a hard thing to do but you have to not run to the rescue when they make bad decisions.

[p123]

My father is a pro at 'the helpless game'.  I learned that he loved to shoot down all my suggestions unless they involved ME doing something for him.  You have to learn to throw it back on them.  He'd want me to give him medical advise. I would tell him he needs to talk to his doctor.  I found that a very powerful sentence is "I don't know what to tell you".  They can't argue with it.   If he cancels Meals on Wheels (and normally that won't happen because it requires HIM to do something) and then says he is out of food respond "I don't know what to tell you...why would you cancel them without a back up plan" .  Sometimes you have to let people live the consequences of their actions.  A week of eating food that is not his favorite will not kill him.  And he might learn the meaning of cutting off his nose to spite his face.  It is a hard thing to do but you have to not run to the rescue when they make bad decisions.

Yes does this all the time. You can present him 20 easier options and he'll want the one he wants.....
You argue then he'll back down - to fight another day I think.

Thing is he likes to be helpless and he likes the warm, fuzzy feeling of someone rescuing him. He will actually be proud to tell all his friends "my son drives 30 miles to deliver my food".
It annoys me massively because there is just no need.

Not sure if I mentioned on here. I order him tons of food just before lockdown. He went MAD - didnt want to spend that much, no need etc. Seems to have worked out well now doesn't it? He's still got frozen food there.......

[Starboard Song]

Yes does this all the time. You can present him 20 easier options and he'll want the one he wants.....
You argue then he'll back down - to fight another day I think.

will actually be proud to tell all his friends "my son drives 30 miles to deliver my food".
It annoys me massively because there is just no need.

I order him tons of food just before lockdown.

You are learning a lot about yourself through all this, and your willingness to continue to engage you father is admirable. But I really believe you need to promise to yourself to never again present 20 easier options, or to argue about them. You can offer the two options you find entirely acceptable and let him pick. If he complains, you can very sweetly let him know you aren't willing to argue, but are willing to help as described, and he should call you back later if he decides to take you up on either of your offers. You can also promise yourself never again to drive 30 miles to deliver food you could order, or to argue with him about that decision. Truly, it takes two to tango, and your father won't be worse off for not having you to argue with.

It's like those parents with the toddler: they had to decide to be parents and take appropriate control. This man only has the contact you allow, only gets of you what you decide to give, and only argues when you are available to participate. You can decide today -- and I know this can hurt and is not easy -- to never again listen to more than 30 seconds of condemnation, and to never again argue, and to never again provide services you don't think make sense.

Good luck. It would be ever so much better for him to be happier and healthier. It is sad that so much is beyond our control.

[lkdrymom]

My father is a pro at 'the helpless game'.  I learned that he loved to shoot down all my suggestions unless they involved ME doing something for him.  You have to learn to throw it back on them.  He'd want me to give him medical advise. I would tell him he needs to talk to his doctor.  I found that a very powerful sentence is "I don't know what to tell you".  They can't argue with it.   If he cancels Meals on Wheels (and normally that won't happen because it requires HIM to do something) and then says he is out of food respond "I don't know what to tell you...why would you cancel them without a back up plan" .  Sometimes you have to let people live the consequences of their actions.  A week of eating food that is not his favorite will not kill him.  And he might learn the meaning of cutting off his nose to spite his face.  It is a hard thing to do but you have to not run to the rescue when they make bad decisions.

Yes does this all the time. You can present him 20 easier options and he'll want the one he wants.....
You argue then he'll back down - to fight another day I think.

Thing is he likes to be helpless and he likes the warm, fuzzy feeling of someone rescuing him. He will actually be proud to tell all his friends "my son drives 30 miles to deliver my food".
It annoys me massively because there is just no need.

Not sure if I mentioned on here. I order him tons of food just before lockdown. He went MAD - didnt want to spend that much, no need etc. Seems to have worked out well now doesn't it? He's still got frozen food there.......

But by doing this you have given him no reason to get worked up. Quite frankly his life is boring.  One thing that brings him joy is to get all flustered about being without food.....because what cruel son will let him go hungry? And you ruined it all by providing him with enough food for a month. (What were you thinking???) Now what does he have to fuss about?!  Not only can he not go out to place a bet but he has no good reason to fuss to you about visiting.

I found with my grandmother it was all about bragging right....telling people how inconvenienced you made yourself on her behalf was something to be proud of.

[p123]

Yes does this all the time. You can present him 20 easier options and he'll want the one he wants.....
You argue then he'll back down - to fight another day I think.

will actually be proud to tell all his friends "my son drives 30 miles to deliver my food".
It annoys me massively because there is just no need.

I order him tons of food just before lockdown.

You are learning a lot about yourself through all this, and your willingness to continue to engage you father is admirable. But I really believe you need to promise to yourself to never again present 20 easier options, or to argue about them. You can offer the two options you find entirely acceptable and let him pick. If he complains, you can very sweetly let him know you aren't willing to argue, but are willing to help as described, and he should call you back later if he decides to take you up on either of your offers. You can also promise yourself never again to drive 30 miles to deliver food you could order, or to argue with him about that decision. Truly, it takes two to tango, and your father won't be worse off for not having you to argue with.

It's like those parents with the toddler: they had to decide to be parents and take appropriate control. This man only has the contact you allow, only gets of you what you decide to give, and only argues when you are available to participate. You can decide today -- and I know this can hurt and is not easy -- to never again listen to more than 30 seconds of condemnation, and to never again argue, and to never again provide services you don't think make sense.

Good luck. It would be ever so much better for him to be happier and healthier. It is sad that so much is beyond our control.

Yeh know what you mean....

Its almost sometimes as if he likes things a bit screwed up and difficult sometimes. I've offered to something in the past and hes said no and struggled. And I just think why?

Of course, his obsession with NOT SPENDING ANY MONEY does not help. If you said to him, you'll be uncomfortable for a month or spend £10 and be fine, he'd rather save the £10. A few years ago, when I couldnt collect him from hospital, he opted to wait 4 hours sat on a plastic chair for the FREE patient tranport to save £10 on a taxi. Made himself ill for days. I was paying the £10 anyway.

[p123]

My father is a pro at 'the helpless game'.  I learned that he loved to shoot down all my suggestions unless they involved ME doing something for him.  You have to learn to throw it back on them.  He'd want me to give him medical advise. I would tell him he needs to talk to his doctor.  I found that a very powerful sentence is "I don't know what to tell you".  They can't argue with it.   If he cancels Meals on Wheels (and normally that won't happen because it requires HIM to do something) and then says he is out of food respond "I don't know what to tell you...why would you cancel them without a back up plan" .  Sometimes you have to let people live the consequences of their actions.  A week of eating food that is not his favorite will not kill him.  And he might learn the meaning of cutting off his nose to spite his face.  It is a hard thing to do but you have to not run to the rescue when they make bad decisions.

Yes does this all the time. You can present him 20 easier options and he'll want the one he wants.....
You argue then he'll back down - to fight another day I think.

Thing is he likes to be helpless and he likes the warm, fuzzy feeling of someone rescuing him. He will actually be proud to tell all his friends "my son drives 30 miles to deliver my food".
It annoys me massively because there is just no need.

Not sure if I mentioned on here. I order him tons of food just before lockdown. He went MAD - didnt want to spend that much, no need etc. Seems to have worked out well now doesn't it? He's still got frozen food there.......

But by doing this you have given him no reason to get worked up. Quite frankly his life is boring.  One thing that brings him joy is to get all flustered about being without food.....because what cruel son will let him go hungry? And you ruined it all by providing him with enough food for a month. (What were you thinking???) Now what does he have to fuss about?!  Not only can he not go out to place a bet but he has no good reason to fuss to you about visiting.

I found with my grandmother it was all about bragging right....telling people how inconvenienced you made yourself on her behalf was something to be proud of.

Oh yes and its a stick to make me visit when it suits him. Which is why hes NEVER agree to food delivery - thats his big stick gone then....

He used to visit us xmas day - you could tell he HATED it. I'd tell him I'll take you home when you want. He stayed all day. I worked out that he only did this so he could boast to his friends how he went over our house on xmas day.

[Starboard Song]

Oh yes and its a stick to make me visit when it suits him. Which is why hes NEVER agree to food delivery

The wonderful thing is that he has no stick: he only tries desperately to manufacture them. He is homebound and can afford delivery service. He has a choice between having food sent by a delivery person or going hungry, and he can't even make you listen to his complaints.

[p123]

Oh yes and its a stick to make me visit when it suits him. Which is why hes NEVER agree to food delivery

The wonderful thing is that he has no stick: he only tries desperately to manufacture them. He is homebound and can afford delivery service. He has a choice between having food sent by a delivery person or going hungry, and he can't even make you listen to his complaints.

Of course, but hes got plenty of tricks up his sleeves and many years of experience....

I'm getting there but hes very good at it. And of course, for years, he had me doing what he wanted.

[PeanutButter]

I just want to add to the great advice you have recieved a couple of my thoughts.

The whole point of differentiation is that you no longer focus on the feelings and thoughts of others. You focus on you, your feelings and your thoughts. 

"Its almost sometimes as if he likes things a bit screwed up and difficult sometimes. I've offered to something in the past and hes said no and struggled. And I just think why"?
IMO maybe he does like things screwed up but thats his business. IME it would be better for both of you if you honored his right to make a choice even if his choice causes him to struggle. IME the 'why' shouldn't matter to you.
"Of course, his obsession with NOT SPENDING ANY MONEY does not help".
His obsession with money does not help in what way? Because its obviously working out just fine for him or he wouldnt do it
"If you said to him, you'll be uncomfortable for a month or spend £10 and be fine, he'd rather save the £10"
Thats his choice to save £10 but he will only be uncomfortable if you dont bail him out.

  A technique I learned is to think about how someone else might respond to your D's histrionics. So if you were not p123- D's Son and instead you are the neighbor who lives across the street from D what would be a normal response?
  If you used the technique for the phone convo
D:    "Ive cancled meals on wheels."
You: "Oh yeh? Id rather cook for myself too"   
D:    "Im too weak to cook for myself but meals on wheels is just too expensive!"
You: "oh I see yeh one of my buddies moved into an assisted living recently because he had the same problems."
D:    "WELL NO! YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BRING ME SOME GROCERIES AND COOK FOR ME!"
You:  "Hahahahahahah thats a good one you old goof! Hahahahahahah but seriously I can get you the phone number of that facility hes in if you need it let me know. Take care neighbor. Bye!
Do you see how it works?

[p123]

I just want to add to the great advice you have recieved a couple of my thoughts.

The whole point of differentiation is that you no longer focus on the feelings and thoughts of others. You focus on you, your feelings and your thoughts. 

"Its almost sometimes as if he likes things a bit screwed up and difficult sometimes. I've offered to something in the past and hes said no and struggled. And I just think why"?
IMO maybe he does like things screwed up but thats his business. IME it would be better for both of you if you honored his right to make a choice even if his choice causes him to struggle. IME the 'why' shouldn't matter to you.
"Of course, his obsession with NOT SPENDING ANY MONEY does not help".
His obsession with money does not help in what way? Because its obviously working out just fine for him or he wouldnt do it
"If you said to him, you'll be uncomfortable for a month or spend £10 and be fine, he'd rather save the £10"
Thats his choice to save £10 but he will only be uncomfortable if you dont bail him out.

  A technique I learned is to think about how someone else might respond to your D's histrionics. So if you were not p123- D's Son and instead you are the neighbor who lives across the street from D what would be a normal response?
  If you used the technique for the phone convo
D:    "Ive cancled meals on wheels."
You: "Oh yeh? Id rather cook for myself too"   
D:    "Im too weak to cook for myself but meals on wheels is just too expensive!"
You: "oh I see yeh one of my buddies moved into an assisted living recently because he had the same problems."
D:    "WELL NO! YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BRING ME SOME GROCERIES AND COOK FOR ME!"
You:  "Hahahahahahah thats a good one you old goof! Hahahahahahah but seriously I can get you the phone number of that facility hes in if you need it let me know. Take care neighbor. Bye!
Do you see how it works?

Yeh. Im getting better. All of these things I used to think "Oh no Dads really struggling. I wish he'd listen to sense...."

Now I'm beginning to think "Silly old fool. Stuff him if he wants to be like that". Now I focus more on the face that I've got put up with the moaning about things now working out but I'm getting better. I just think "whatever Dad I've offered to help and you declined to carry on".

Good one about the neighbour. A normal person would just think "Oh well not my problem carry on".

[blacksheep7]

Hi p123,

Sorry to hear that you're still dealing with a Difficult father.  I must say you had great advice here, only you can control the situation by the way you respond.  I'm sure you will master it completely with practice.   Guilt must not ruin your life. 

That being said, I wanted to talk about Florida to lighten the conversation as I had booked a vacation also for end of August.  I sadly cancelled it yesterday as I don't think that the situation of the pandemic will change enough to be on the safe side.  We are all on hold at the moment. 

I was looking forward to it as dh and I met there in Miami  in the 70's which was to place to go to. We were on the same flight, same city, for the vacation  I'm in Canada east side so it's straight down for us by car.  Last time we were there was in 2009 so long overdue.  I have been there at least five times and love it....so much to do and visit apart from the beautiful beaches.  My son has adopted the place for vacation (Disneyworld) for his dd which asks when is the next time they will be going every so often.  She has no notion of where it is and the cost of it...lol

We will probably be vacationing in our backyard like most.

Take care

[PeanutButter]

I just want to add to the great advice you have recieved a couple of my thoughts.

The whole point of differentiation is that you no longer focus on the feelings and thoughts of others. You focus on you, your feelings and your thoughts. 

"Its almost sometimes as if he likes things a bit screwed up and difficult sometimes. I've offered to something in the past and hes said no and struggled. And I just think why"?
IMO maybe he does like things screwed up but thats his business. IME it would be better for both of you if you honored his right to make a choice even if his choice causes him to struggle. IME the 'why' shouldn't matter to you.
"Of course, his obsession with NOT SPENDING ANY MONEY does not help".
His obsession with money does not help in what way? Because its obviously working out just fine for him or he wouldnt do it
"If you said to him, you'll be uncomfortable for a month or spend £10 and be fine, he'd rather save the £10"
Thats his choice to save £10 but he will only be uncomfortable if you dont bail him out.

  A technique I learned is to think about how someone else might respond to your D's histrionics. So if you were not p123- D's Son and instead you are the neighbor who lives across the street from D what would be a normal response?
  If you used the technique for the phone convo
D:    "Ive cancled meals on wheels."
You: "Oh yeh? Id rather cook for myself too"   
D:    "Im too weak to cook for myself but meals on wheels is just too expensive!"
You: "oh I see yeh one of my buddies moved into an assisted living recently because he had the same problems."
D:    "WELL NO! YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BRING ME SOME GROCERIES AND COOK FOR ME!"
You:  "Hahahahahahah thats a good one you old goof! Hahahahahahah but seriously I can get you the phone number of that facility hes in if you need it let me know. Take care neighbor. Bye!
Do you see how it works?

Yeh. Im getting better. All of these things I used to think "Oh no Dads really struggling. I wish he'd listen to sense...."

Now I'm beginning to think "Silly old fool. Stuff him if he wants to be like that". Now I focus more on the face that I've got put up with the moaning about things now working out but I'm getting better. I just think "whatever Dad I've offered to help and you declined to carry on".

Good one about the neighbour. A normal person would just think "Oh well not my problem carry on".

You are getting better!! Thats great!
You are being true to who you are as a person by offering the help that you 'want' to give. But you let go of the outcome if he declines.
When I heard the explanation of the 'what would the neigbor do?' I was like 'hey, thats right anyone else (not conditioned by years of verbal onslaught) would be like 'whatever floats your boat" It changed how I viewed my reactions to my pd.