Why do they seem to thrive while we survive?

[PearlBailey]

Hi all,

I'm about 6 years removed from divorcing my NPDexH. We were together for 17 years, married for about 8. We got together young - emotional abuse, gaslighting, and all the other trademark behaviors of NPD were rampant for our whole relationship. It escalated into physical abuse only once which is when I finally left for good.

Went through a difficult divorce with all that you'd expect from a NPD (smear campaign to friends and family, dragging feet on any legal actions, name calling and verbal abuse, continued attempts at manipulation, etc.). We had one leftover legal action I wrapped up about a year after the divorce was final (since he was never going to do it and I didn't want it hanging out there in the universe) and I've been no contact ever since.

He and all his family/friends are blocked on social media, etc. but I still get random bits and pieces of news about him through various sources. After the separation he went on to find a new partner quickly, had a couple of kids in quick succession, moved out of state, is still successful in his job, and from all outside appearances is completely unscathed.

Meanwhile, since the divorce I've struggled with health issues and multiple surgeries, no doubt exacerbated by the years of stress and C-PTSD caused by the abuse. I have re-married and have step-kids, but can not have biological children. My current husband has exes who are BPD and NPD, so at first there was a good deal of stress setting up proper boundaries. They still stir the pot from time to time which is to be expected.

I've been in therapy for quite some time, and while I have learned many coping mechanisms to deal with the damage that has been done - I still feel as if I will never completely recover. I have to work extremely hard to be aware of my body and my emotions at all times. I do enjoy the peace that comes with having found a healthy and supportive partner, good friends and family, involvement in hobbies, a stable job, and the other positive aspects of my life post-PD. But it all has come at a cost.

I still have times where I become sad and angry about the injustice of it all. That is seems 'karma' or whatever you want to call it never comes for the PD, but those in their wake are left to claw their way out of the pit the PD threw them in. I don't like to wallow in self-pity, and try to not spend time ruminating on these thoughts. But they do come, fairly regularly, and with a good deal of intensity.

Does anyone have any advice for how they deal with these emotions? Do you think my perception of the NPD being 'happy' or 'unscathed' is a fallacy, or have others seen the PD's in their life prosper time and time again? Does time ever truly heal these wounds, or is this feeling of injustice something we all end up having to accept as part of ourselves forever?

[Penny Lane]

I strongly relate to this because I tend to get focused on fairness and for all the damage PDs cause it seems incredibly unfair that they can keep bouncing back from their own bad behavior.

This is the #1 thing that helps me when I get into this headspace about my DH's uNPD ex: No matter how miserable she's making me, my husband or my stepkids - she is a thousand times more miserable. We have to live with her part of the time, but she has to live with herself all of the time.

I know it's not possible to really know this. Maybe she's happy all the time! But I truly don't think so. I really deep down believe that PD-related abusive behavior is not dissimilar from a toddler throwing a temper tantrum: an unhappy person expressing that in the only way they know how.

All that therapeutic work you've done? The goal was to make your life better. And it's worked! Your life is better without him in it.

His life, meanwhile, is not better. He might have more outward signs of success or even happiness than you. But that doesn't change his nature. He is doomed to repeat the same patterns forever UNLESS he does a ton of incredibly difficult and heartbreaking work on himself. Even doing that work would be so difficult that it would almost be like a punishment in and of itself (but would be similarly rewarding).

Plus, keep in mind that you're only seeing a very small part, just the bits and pieces. That's really not enough to know how someone else is doing, it's surface level stuff that seems good but doesn't truly say anything about a person's quality of life.

It sounds like (though maybe I'm projecting a bit based on my own situation) that the issues around having children are a large part of your frustration and sadness. Being a stepparent involves a lot of hard parenting work, often in ways that is not recognized. Meanwhile all around you, there are PDs who do get to be biological parents, who probably are doing a much worse job of it than you are or would be with your own biological children. It sucks! It's not fair! I don't have any words of advice but I will say I think you are justified in feeling angry.

I do think time will continue to lessen these feelings for you (and I hope for me). Maybe they'll never go away but their frequency and intensity will decrease. It might help if you can further cut off any sources of information about him, so you don't have to hear third or fourth-hand how great his life is (outwardly) going. It also might help to make a gratitude journal or otherwise think about the ways that you are lucky. Not because what happened isn't unfair - it is - but because refocusing your mind on the good stuff can create more positive pathways in your brain.

Like I said, I really relate to this. Hopefully time and working on ourselves will help this get better for both of us.

[Wilderhearts]

I have to agree with Penny on several accounts here:  pwPDs are the most miserable people you will ever know.  That's why they try to make everyone around them miserable - it's the only thing that makes sense to them.  My uNPDf used to sneer into my sister's face that she was "miserable" when he was in a rage.  It was projection, and blame shifting.  He made us miserable with his misery, not vice versa.

Another thing Penny touched on - pwNPD are masters of cultivating their image.  All their energy goes into propping up their false self, and destroying the people who challenge it or see through it.  My uNPDf had markers of success too - motor bikes and cars, big house, director at a university, loyal friends.  Yes, pwNPD are experts at getting ahead by behaving badly. But the truth is his reputation was destroyed when his colleague saw my mother at a battered women's service, and when he died, he died alone.  I was his GC, and one of my happiest realizations in recent years is that the anniversary of his death can pass without me even noticing. 

They have zero peace.  And the truth is that they don't know how to love, and will never even realize it, because they don't know what love is.  At best, they have an empty existence.  You, on the other hand, have hard-won peace.  And love, even when it's messy and complicated.

I have decades of anger that I repressed, before even learning how to feel angry, then to tolerate it, then to process it, then to express it.  It leaks out over little things all the time - and I have to let it.  For me, the only way is through.  Feelings don't go away when you deny them, they go away when you experience them.  Judging my feelings just puts me in a struggle to deny or accept them, when really what I need to be doing is "sitting" in them.  Sometimes I'll take a minute to sit and do nothing but feel and acknowledge my feelings, especially when angry.

I don't know if the sadness and anger will ever go away for me, either.  I don't think I can control that.  But if suffering is the avoidance of pain, and these feelings are painful, at least I can control my suffering by not avoiding my feelings. I can just feel "clean pain" instead, without the layers of suffering.  It's a work in progress.

[notrightinthehead]

I can relate to that. It is so unfair. My NPDh replaced me within three months and seems so happy and content now. I on the other hand went through two years of fury and grief. I feel absolutely nothing for him now and have blocked all channels of information, even though this meant giving up a lot of friendships.  Whenever I become aware that my mind wanders off  and thinks about him, I re-direct my thoughts to thinking about myself and why I did allow him to treat me so badly for so long. And how I would never do that again.

I agree with the others, the only way out of these feelings of anger, envy, despair is through. Not act on these feelings but allow them to be. Eventually they seem to fade.

[Hopeful Spine]

I'm another one who struggles with the unfairness of it all.  And I'm even totally living my best life right now! 

I've had many difficult years and I'm moving on.  But I've been clocking a SIL who hurt my husband and I greatly.  In the following years I was able to move forward with my life but the pain kept a hold on me.  I found myself countless times in a day wrapped up in rumination.  Meanwhile, she's leading a fancy religious retreat with social media friends singing her praises.  She's given birth to two more children and seems to revel in being a mother of her many children.  She was given grace by our "have to get along" family and when she's in town they fawn over her.  And her husband, who originally told us that she was "just going through a stage"  became incredibly devoted to her.

I remind myself that I don't know the whole story.  Either she was awful to us because she carries her own hurts.  Or she was awful to us (without apology) because she's - an awful person.  It's not my job to sort that out. 

It's been almost 5 years and the pain hasn't lessen automatically with the passing of time.  I'm now making dedicated steps to moving on.  When I catch myself revisiting the past I stop myself by actually speaking out loud, "Stop it!"  or "This is not your job, get back to your real work" or "It isn't fair, but it's over and you are lovely."  Anything I'd say to a friend who won't let something go.  Then I text something nice to my husband or a good friend and try to move on with my day.  It's helping me to give gratitude to those in my life who haven't made me feel like shit.

I have another SIL who get's under my skin.  She has an amazing life.  Beautiful, talented, smart, career savvy, wonderful healthy children, awesome house, the NICEST husband I've ever met, fun friends, great vacations.  ALL.  OF.  IT.  It's gold.  But I also know that she left a job because people didn't like her.  Her children are kind of a handful.  Money is tight.  She's got great fun friends but they are in a rotation.  Not all of them stick around even if they live forever on social media.  She's ripped my appearance enough times for me to guess that she's insecure about parts of her own body.  Most telling of all is that when her husband has a few drinks he reveals how very difficult she is.  How he sleeps on the couch most nights.  How he runs shit errands to get away.  But I still take her attitude towards me personally.  I remain hurt but this person and I often find myself feeling small and jealous around her.  It's not something I'm proud of.

I want to believe that I can be free of these negative thoughts and habits.  But I do believe that it will always be a struggle for me.  I care deeply for people and that is why I deeply feel those hurts and the humiliation of trusting the wrong people.  This pain is teaching me that I must be more careful of who I trust, invest in and love.  This is the sort of thing that most people learn in their family of origin.  I didn't and that makes my lesson harder and see more impossible. 

But I am finding myself growing in great directions lately.  Eventually I think that the excitement of the positives in my life will balance out those negatives.  You are working so hard and you have made positive changes so don't give up!!! 

[GettingOOTF]

This is something I battled with. My ex moved with someone before we were divorced, and while trying to get back with me.

He started doing all the things wirh her that I wanted and he never did. He was traveling, going out, had a stable job, a large new social circle and seemed to be living my dream life.

I was massively in debt, single and lonely, angry, in terrible physical shape and had no self esteem.

I spent years recovering from the debt etc and working in therapy on my various issues. I frequently raised the “unfairness” if it all with my therapist. She pointed out that I was actually better off even though it didn’t feel like it. That I was doing the work and that nothing had changed for him. He was still unhappy and frustrated. Well he looked anything but to me!

Now looking back I see how right she was. My life looks nothing like it did when I was with him. His is exactly the same. He still hasn’t found the success he wanted, he’s in terrible shape, now in debt, the trips seem to have stopped and I saw a photo of his GF. She looks awful. She looks exactly, and I mean EXACTLY like I did in the photos he used to take of me. She seemed a happy, successful, attractive women when they meet. As I was. Now she looks miserable and so beaten down. Her shoulders were hunched, she’d gained the weight Id lost and she wasn’t smiling.

They don’t change. How it looks to outsiders isn’t how it is.

And so what if my ex does turn into everything I wanted him to be. He was NEVER those things to me and he never would be. If he can be that for someone else then I wish them well. I doubt it though.

We all know what our exes were like behind closed doors. They haven’t changed. And those kids of his? Imagine what their lives are like. That could be you, stuck with him and now dealing with the hurt, confusion and anger of your kids.

It took me a long time to get over my anger and jealousy. I think those feelings are natural, but they do need to be worked through. I have had great success in many areas of my life since leaving my ex and committing to my self work but I haven’t had great success with lasting relationships or friends. I do think we can recover but I also feel our pasts will always be with us.

I think your ex is probably as happy and as unhappy with his new wife as he was with you. They don’t change. We however can and do.

[PearlBailey]

Thank you all for your kind words, and for sharing your experiences with me.

It makes me feel better that I'm not alone in my feelings. And I also needed the reminder that no matter how things look from the outside, what happens behind closed doors is only known to the people who reside there. I especially appreciated the comment that regardless of whether he is 100% changed with his new spouse, he never was and was never going to be a decent person in our relationship.

Focusing on the good things is a good strategy. I think the tendencies that pulled me into an abusive relationship in the first place (e.g. self-criticism, challenges with self-esteem, etc.) are just rearing their ugly head again. I want to be healthy, happy, and healed in a snap, and that's just not realistic. I need to learn to be more gentle with myself and try and get less frustrated when I'm not healing as fast as I'd like.

[GettingOOTF]

Another thing I just realized from this thread - he may seem to have a great relationship etc. from the outside but I know he's still harassing me, reaching out on various occasions, keeping up with that I do through others.

So he's clearly not happy. I also doubt his girlfriend knows any of this.

I wonder who he was reaching out to when he was with me. They don't change. It's all a charade.

[heron]

I really agree with what others on here are saying. I feel I have some mild PD characteristics, and there is a massive gap between my life as portrayed to strangers on social media vs my life as you would see it if you had a spy drone, and another between my life a spy drone would see and my inner experience. Both of the gaps are "much worse". I show the happy positive things to the world in social media and censor all the rest. To a lesser extent, I show more happy positive things to the world around me (in my words, expression, tones) compared to what I feel inside (I censor lots of negativity).

So, it's just really true that "they seem to have a good life from gossip / social media" absolutely does not mean "they are happy". For anyone, but especially for PWDs. Like others said, the pain of being them is way worse than the pain of having spent years being around them, hard though that is to imagine. So, keep on working on yourself to be happy, and know that somewhere far away this person is suffering. And it's not your problem anymore, yay!

[Hopeful Spine]

I show the happy positive things to the world in social media and censor all the rest. To a lesser extent, I show more happy positive things to the world around me (in my words, expression, tones) compared to what I feel inside (I censor lots of negativity).

I have to admit that I do this as well.  My therapist once presented the idea of authenticity, which is when your inside actions reflect your outside actions.  Which blew my mind because this was always a confusing gap in my life.  I behaved like a nice person but thought like a negative one.  Which can be widely conflicting, especially when you're being mistreated and life is in turmoil.

Which might be why some of us have these simmering feelings of resentment and anger even after these people are out of our lives.  We were not authentic when we allowed people to behave a certain way towards us.  I "turned the other cheek".   I held my tongue because I know that is what a polite person does.  The new me wouldn't allow that treatment but I can't get those moments back and stand up for myself which leaves me to stall in my thinking toward them.  I haven't "finished" with them. But when years have passed you can't revisit the situation without revealing (to those people) how truly damaged you are because of them.  Not wanting to appear pathetic holds me back.  Holding back in this area makes me feel small and weak.  Feeling weak makes me sad and angry. 

This isn't my thread but thank you for contributing today.  This give me some new material to think upon.

[Call Me Cordelia]

To a degree that gap is appropriate. There is a difference between what is private and what is public. The social media age is stressing that boundary. Such that everything is potentially public and it’s up to each of us to self-censor. But happy things are fine to talk about in society generally. Your fears, family problems, that stuff really is more private. You can talk about it with those close to you but wouldn’t bring it up at a high school reunion. If a new acquaintance asks, “How are you?” you don’t launch into the nitty gritty of your divorce, for example. That’s not being fake, that’s having a sense of propriety. Which is an old-fashioned word for boundaries, now that I think about it. So much social media “authenticity” is really a lack of boundaries. It is a fine line between posturing and propriety.

Regarding our exes, we simply have no business knowing their problems. Let alone hoping to find evidence of them to make ourselves feel better. Yikes. That said, I relate to wanting that validation with regard to people I have cut off. It just leads back down the spiral IME. Codependency is a hard hard lifelong habit to reprogram. Don’t be discouraged!

[GettingOOTF]

I don't post anything negative on social media. I also don't post personal things. So many post about the drama in their lives or the things that are going wrong. Most people only found out I was divorced as my ex started posting photos of him and his girlfriend.

It's not my job to make other people feel happy about their lives by posting the bad things about mine.

I know many people who have illnesses, went through a divorce, lost their jobs etc. and didn't post about it.

Most people thought I was happily married. You never know what it going on in someone's life. The majority of people don't post the bad things on Facebook.

One thing that had made me feel better in general is to stop comparing myself to others and making up stories about their lives based on what I see on social media.

[losingmyself]

For sure, my ex seemed to thrive after I left. He went to school and got a degree on some program for divorcees, so that was free. He also has been the "great Dad" that my kids loved so much, and I know he didn't spare any harsh feelings toward me when he spoke of me to them.
But, he's alone. He has friends, but no relationship.
I don't know. I struggled with the unfairness, also, but am just glad, I guess that my kids love their dad. He's not an ass to them.  He just doesn't have time for them much, but he throws money at them, so it's ok.
He also trashed my name as much as he could around town, there are people who still don't speak to me. But anyone who knows me didn't buy it, and saw it as the lies they were.
The thing I struggle with is that I'm still not happy. Still have even more issues than before.

[PeanutButter]

I still have times where I become sad and angry about the injustice of it all. That is seems 'karma' or whatever you want to call it never comes for the PD, but those in their wake are left to claw their way out of the pit the PD threw them in. I don't like to wallow in self-pity, and try to not spend time ruminating on these thoughts. But they do come, fairly regularly, and with a good deal of intensity.

Does anyone have any advice for how they deal with these emotions? Do you think my perception of the NPD being 'happy' or 'unscathed' is a fallacy, or have others seen the PD's in their life prosper time and time again? Does time ever truly heal these wounds, or is this feeling of injustice something we all end up having to accept as part of ourselves forever?

IME I had to deal with an unconscious belief I had that if a person hurt me they should be punished Not only that i felt a right as the hurt person to watch or view the punishment happen.
I do not believe that karma works like that though. That also does not line up with my morals and the person I want/strive to be.

So my advice on dealing with the emotions is to dig deeply to find the thoughts and even deeper to the beliefs that are underlying these emotions in you.

I do not think that pd prosper any more than nons. I have not seen any evidence of that myself.

I no longer feel an injustice was done to me. I recognise my choices that kept me stuck in relationships with abusers and my own responsibility in allowing myself to be treated reprehensibly.
I do not think this is something you have to accept as a permanent narrative in your life. It is no longer a part of my life.

IME self compassion also plays a big part in my recovery. I accept where I am at this present time. Whatever emotions I have I will NOT judge. They are normal and necessary.

[Poison Ivy]

Thank you for saying this, PeanutButter. "IME I had to deal with an unconscious belief I had that if a person hurt me they should be punished Not only that i felt a right as the hurt person to watch or view the punishment happen.
I do not believe that karma works like that though. That also does not line up with my morals and the person I want/strive to be."

I have a friend who expresses the conscious belief that her ex-husband should be punished and that she'd like to witness the punishment, but she hasn't reached the stage of understanding that karma doesn't work like that. I hope I can be more sympathetic to her knowing that she is not the only person to have such beliefs.

[PeanutButter]

I wonder how many of us have parents who we feel wanted/needed us to be unhappy or broken?

True happiness is not ever going to come from proof of our abusers are miserable or being 'punished'.

I have a "sadistic" inner critic that charades itself as a marriage counselor, a life coach, a lawyer, a cop, and a judge. It is none of these. It is a culmination of my parents' voices, cult teachings, and trauma in my upbringing.

Sadistic means: taking pleasure in the infliction of pain, punishment, or humiliation on others.

I will not follow my inner critic when I observe it telling me the reason i am blocked from being happy is because my abusers are doing well and they shouldnt be. If i need my abusers to be miserable I am not going to have true happiness even if they are. IMHE

[Hopeful Spine]

I wonder how many of us have parents who we feel wanted/needed us to be unhappy or broken?
---
I have a "sadistic" inner critic that charades itself as a marriage counselor, a life coach, a lawyer, a cop, and a judge. It is none of these. It is a culmination of my parents' voices, cult teachings, and trauma in my upbringing. 

OMG I'm loving this thread.  I have a mother, by all accounts a "good" mother.  She really did try.  She provided a clean home, plenty of food.  I was cared for.  Begrudgingly she would provide nice things like birthday cakes, a new dress for a school dance or maybe the unexpected ice cream cone run. 

But she would always seem happier where there was drama.  She'd pick and point out things such as, "you know your friend doesn't really want you around.  That's why she didn't invite you over tonight."  Or, "if only you were more popular.  You might have gotten to play in the game today."  Just small nibbles on my self worth that took big chunks out of my positive and hopeful inner voice.

Passive aggressive ways to put my down during my dating years led to a real confusion on who I should date.  All my relationship were confusing to be honest.  Peers, superiors, the kids I babysat for.  I was a very odd teenager who listened to everything her mother said and tried desperately to be "normal".

Even present day, when I'm living in a better head space.  I often have little events at my work.  Wine and cheese sort of things - nothing big, nothing fancy.  I don't LOVE doing this but it's good for business and I make the best of it.  I am completely fine running to the store the evening prior and picking up all the supplies I need.  It actually helps me to be less nervous about hosting.  She calls me up, days in advance to check to make sure I have everything and will try to steamroll my plans.  She'll express shock that I haven't even set up the chairs yet.  She'll try to "help" by offering to prepare food.  To "let me borrow" a nice tablecloth.  She calls to check in.  By the day of the event I'd be a mess.  I (used to) allow her to fuss and THEN - she'd tell everyone how much she HAS to help me.  How difficult these things are for me. 

I notice that when I have an issue with a person (like a difficult boss, my first MIL, more recently my SILs) my mother will innocently say, "So have you seen that person recently?"  Which is code for - "you can complain to me for as long as you want!"  I (used to) talk.  And mom would make it all seem worse.  I'd continue to think about it in the days following.  I'd feel as unworthy as I felt when I didn't get to plan in the game.  And I would hurt.  And I would try to figure out how to make the whole thing BETTER.  To redeem myself.  And THAT is a difficult road to walk.  You have to move on and make peace with yourself.  And NOT hurt yourself trying to solve something.  And NOT wish for hurt on anyone else.

[GettingOOTF]

Sadistic means: taking pleasure in the infliction of pain, punishment, or humiliation on others.


This exactly describes my father. He'd say something hurtful and then laugh if yuh got upset. If you ignored him he'd keep on at you. Any attention in my family was negative attention. My mother used to point out all the things about me that made me ugly and were reasons that "no man will ever want you".

I was thinking the other day about how there was zero physical affection growing up. I don't ever remember being hugged or touched in any affectionate manner.

I spent most of my life making myself small to avoid any attention as I learned early on that there was nothing to be gained by being noticed. I married an abusive man that honestly I never loved, but he asked me to marry him and I thought that this was my only chance at a family.

In my family the worst thing anyone can do is to succeed at something. It's seem as a major betrayal.

It's only now that I'm seeing that there was never anything wrong with me. It was the dysfunctional family system.

I have an awful inner critic. I saw something that said be careful about how you talk to your children and your words become their inner voice. This is certainly true in my case.

[Hopeful Spine]

I spent most of my life making myself small to avoid any attention as I learned early on that there was nothing to be gained by being noticed. I married an abusive man that honestly I never loved, but he asked me to marry him and I thought that this was my only chance at a family.

Same!  So glad I'm not alone.  I didn't marry an abusive person but as a beautiful and lovely 18 year old kid I got engaged to someone very inappropriate.  I literally thought that this was my only chance I'd get to be married.  I was disappointed that he was the one that chose me.  I literally didn't know that I could turn him down and find someone perfect.  I figured it out months before the date and broke it off.  Probably the strongest thing I've ever done.  I thought that I ruined my whole life (at age 18!).  I married the next guy who came along because he was super nice and my age.  A couple years in I started to be sad when friends were excited to be married.  I'd never felt that way.  A amicable divorce and then on to the next marriage where I suffered, rebuilt and finally thrived.  Still working on me.   

I get you girl!!  I understand and know how hard you had it!!

[SparkStillLit]

This thread is ahhhhhh-mazing. Thank you ALL.