What will come next?

[roughdiamonds1]

I posted some time ago about the fact that I was separating from my husband, mainly due to the stress of being the scapegoat within his toxic family unit and the abusive behaviour that I endured from my MIL and SIL for many years. I reached the end of my ability to cope, and forced his hand, and he couldn't choose the options that meant less contact with his family. But I guess, honestly, our separation is happening partly because I recognised the betrayal in my husband not standing up to his family property in all these past years. He chose to avoid the truth, which I only really learned very clearly in recent years, is the habit of a lifetime for him. I realised that our marriage was based on him avoiding all types of connection, and me desperately trying to create it/force it/earn it. I decided I needed more.

Fast forward 3-4 months, and the separation has well and truly happened and it's going pretty well so far.  We both received an instant amount of relief from having to deal with stressful situations and conversations about his family. We've also managed to stay really peaceful and still have regular family time between us and our two young children. That was my wish from the start, and although there have been many bumps in the road, we've managed to get over all of them and still have a friendship and peaceful co-parenting relationship intact.

But I am very aware that the period of the last 3-4 months has been very easy for us to just hide away and deal with things in our own time and way, because we were forced have separation from everyone else because of Covid. Now, the restrictions are easing for us, and people are finding out about our separation, including his family, which he took a very long time to share with them.

We have both been NC with my SIL for two years, and I have NC with my MIL. But my exH has regular contact with his mum, and works with his brother (married to toxic SIL), but hasn't had any social contact with him for years. I talked in my last post about how I was terrified of my exH being welcomed back into the fold as soon as I was out of the picture, and how I was worried they would try and come further between us and destroy any chance of a peaceful co-parenting relationship that we wanted to have. And it took my SIL and BIL one week after they heard the news to reach out to him and see if he and our kids wanted to meet up and hang out. One week! After years of refusing to respond to any attempts at peaceful communication we made... it just stings. I know it shouldn't, but it does. And the fact that my exH called me to see if he could take the kids to see them just triggered a tidal wave of feelings and emotions that I thought I had processed. My zen I worked so hard to find disappeared in an instant, and in came the fear, the anxiety and total panicked feelings that used to rule my life.

Luckily for me, and after my terrified and very upset reaction, my ex has agreed to not take the kids to see them while we are still finding our feet. I alerted him to the fact that the level of stress in our conversations just went back to how it used to be, and how well we had been doing without it, and without them. But, now that we are separated, I don't know how long I will be able to hold him off. What to do now??

Just for context, i have agreed to monthly supervised visits with MIL, but SIL is a completely different kettle of fish. I am genuinely afraid of what she is capable of.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hello,

After reading your post I have a few thoughts.

My general principle in life is that we don't make kids deal with PDs. Its not good for them. It sounds like your SIL is not a safe adult and kids need us to protect them from people who are not safe.

Sadly of course PDs will work hard to get access to anyone they can especially in a family and what you describe is that you need a strategy for keeping your kids safe from SIL.

Is that your main concern right now? From what you wrote I wasn't totally sure what you biggest worry is but it sounds like its SIL.

Sounds like SIL is anxious to have your NC boundary broken . Considering it didn't take long for her to ask to see the kids after you've been NC for 2 years. You went NC for good reason. I've been NC from many toxic people and when we go NC it is for good reason.


It sounds like there will be times where you and the ex won't agree but there are times you do agree on who the kids should see and how and when.

He seems open to understanding your concerns that is a really good sign. He probably enjoyed the peace.

From what you describe you are now in a phase where you removed yourself from the equation. It sounds like you and he are capable of peacefully co-parenting when his FOO can't interfere.

The pandemic provided a boundary for him. He now faces a new phase where he has to make the boundaries. SIL will push for what she wants. Doesn't sound like she understands the NC boundary at all.

It is possible that on some level your ex also feels protective of his children and is then overcome with fog when his toxic family members insist on contact.

You already know all that which is what led to the separation it sounds like.

My advice to you is to take some time with yourself to really decide what you can accept and what you cannot agree to regarding the children and his family. If no contact with the SIL- supervised or not- is the only thing that seems safe to you, listen to your gut and trust yourself and advocate for what you know is right and safe for your children.

It's very interesting to me that you and your ex had a period of peace after separating. He should consider how much healthier he is as a parent and role model to his children when he isn't embroiled in the drama with SIL.

If SIL is an NPD then all the experiences here suggest that she will enter her smear campaign part of her PD where she attacks and acts the victim.

In general, after encountering someone's boundary that they don't like, NPDs will shift into becoming the victim of a baddie (you), to see if they can enlist and FMs to do their dirty work.

They will have a narrative about what they want and how evil the other person is for not giving them what they want.

If your ex doesn't like to JADE, the smear campaign against you may not last as long because the length of the smear campaign depends on how much people in the family are willing to JADE.

If I were you i would prepare for a smear campaign by writing out to yourself what you know to be true about the SIL and her ways based on the past behaviours you've seen. The ways you stayed Out of the FOG in the past and the ways that your ex manages to stay Out of the FOG at times because it sounds like he is not 100% in the fog otherwise your peaceful co parenting would not have happened as of late.

Most of all I wish you good luck on this and hope you use this site and forum to get support for yourself as you deserve lots of support for what you are doing.

I was pretty direct here. I hope I didn't scare you. The smear campaign is a reality and it is better for you to prepare for it in case it comes next.

You are not a baddie and we are here to support you in your next steps in your life Out of the FOG!

Trees

[roughdiamonds1]

Thank you so much for your thoughts, Trees.

You've given some good suggestions - I think sitting down and writing down all that I know to be true is a good idea. A list of facts and things that have happened and something to look back at and ground me. I might not give it to my ex, but he has mentioned going to some counselling together to find our new boundaries with regards to his family (another good sign that he is not totally in the fog, because he resisted joint counselling all of these years prior), so maybe it's something I could use there.

To be honest, I swing from being more concerned about my MIL's influence, to my SIL and back to MIL. They both concern me in different ways, but my MIL so far has been fairly accepting of the No Contact boundary (she's asked several times, but my ex has protected me from it this time around), and she does usually seem to hold herself somewhat together in front of the children.

My ex seems aware of how disordered our SIL is, and says he wants nothing to do with her ever again, but seems to think he can be in a space with her and not have it bother him. It's his brother and all of their children he wants the relationship with. I don't see how that would possibly work. In this instance, I think he had a moment of feeling sorry for them and their children, and everyone involved in this almighty mess, and this is what happens with MIL too. He feels sorry for them and wants to forgive and forget.

But the truth is, I absolutely do not want my children to be in the same space as SIL without me there to supervise. And I don't want to be around her, so that's that. I don't even really want them to be around BIL because he is completely complicit to SIL. In truth, I also think I don't want my kids around the people who are at least partly to blame for our marriage failing, because it's still raw and it still hurts - for all of us, not least of all my children. But people are telling me that now that we are separated, I don't have the right to make those decisions any more, and he can choose to take them wherever he wants on his days, whether I like it or not. The law says the rights are with the child. Not the parent or family member, so it's my reasoning that I can argue the point that she's not a safe person to be around. But i guess I'm fearing how much say I actually have now we are separated without heading to a court. I really don't want to do that. I want to be able to handle it peacefully, but I'm not sure how far to push that conversation.

And as far as a smear campaign, you are right, it's been done before, and I have no doubt it will be done again. Her storyline always seems to be about their children and our children being together and me stopping that from happening. I have no desire to keep the children apart, it's just a sad by-product of all of the parents not being able to be in a room together. She has also accused me of all kinds of other awful things, all of which truly confounded me for months, before I learned what projection was. And suddenly it all made sense.

[Freebird228]

Dear Diamonds,

I'm sorry you and your ex split because of his family. My DH brought up the D word SO many times when we had a fall out with his NPD family. It put SO much strain and stress on our relationship that we kept going back to that option. It's sickening that in-laws can do that type of damage. That's one of the biggest reasons why I always refused to go there because I knew my DH would probably go back around his family and our children would be exposed to sooooooo much inappropriate behavior.

I would stand your ground. Being as peaceful as possible of course, but if you do not feel comfortable with your children being around his family, then I would hope he would continue to respect that. It is our job to protect our babies from these type of people. NPD like to prey on children so they can mold them and shape them into people like them.. Also, knowing how my in-laws are, I know they would talk badly about me in front of my children. And what child deserves that?? You'll be in my thoughts and prayers. Stay strong momma ❤️

[roughdiamonds1]

Thank you Freebird. Yes, it's crossed my mind many a time that I'm doing something that is best for me, but perhaps not best for my children. It's a hard thought to process. I know what my ILs have done in front of my children in the past, and the way they speak about people they don't like. So I'd have to rely on my ex to take appropriate action if they stepped out of line... and I guess that's what's at the heart of this too, is that I don't feel that I'm ready to trust him with that.