Introduction/child who lies about mom

Started by Flowerchild, June 07, 2020, 11:53:40 PM

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Flowerchild

Hi Everyone, I am Flowerchild and I am new to the forum.
I have an adult daughter, 22, who may have a PD. She started changing her personality right around puberty. It has been heart breaking because we use to be so close.
She has accused me of very serious things that are all lies. In fact, the things she says about me, are things I would never say or do, but are the very things she has done.
She has nearly destroyed my reputation in our church and community. She has compromised the safety of my other children by the nature of the slander and it has caused my youngest to have ptsd from fears of being taken away from me if anyone believes her sister.
We have sought counseling for my other kids and I.
My husband of 26 years (kids father) and I are separated. He is part of the problem.
I have tried to extend mercy and grace to my oldest. Friends think I have extended too much.
I am trying to discern going NC which my youngest daughter has suggested. This will be very difficult with social media and all.
She lives across the country and is getting married july. I am also discerning whether to tell her fiance and his family the truths of all we have dealt with in letter form, since they all believe she grew up with a severely abusive mother.  I don't know if we should even go to wedding.
My counselor years ago suggested having many friends and families that were always over our house write letters of character reference for me and to testify to what they saw in my daughter. I would send those too. I feel a sense of responsibility to tell them so they may be able to learn what truly ails my daughter...since she truly was not abused. If she has a PD they need to know. She needs to face it.
Do you all think its a PD or just pure evil causing her to do what she has done?
Anyone have similar experience?
Thanks.
FC








PeanutButter

A list of traits  is here https://outofthefog.website/traits

Welcome. Im sorry that your reputation is in ruins. That sounds like it brings you tremendous pain.

I do not label anyone as evil. Im not sure of what kind of criteria could even be used to label my fellow human evil.

Im sorry to hear your youngest D is exposed to adult matters and is therefore traumatised by worry she will be taken away from you.

This happened to my youngest Sis when ubpd/uspdM had little S by her side for everything. After several years of abuse I told ubpd/uspdM I would call authorities if  she didnt stop smacking me in the face, hitting me, calling me bad names, and yelling. My ubpd/uspdM yelled out that if I did that my little S would be taken away. S of course got hysterical at which point ubpd/uspdM flipped the blame for S's trauma onto me. "Look what you have done to your S. How can you do this to her? You are evil!" But I stood my ground. Even though I was 15 and my ubpd/uspdM was 45 I knew she was wrong.

Im so glad to hear that you and your other children are getting thearapy. That is so important.

IME I would not write letters or have others write letters attempting to influence you D's relationships. I imo would limit or no contact with this D. Let everyone heal. If your D has a PD it will not help her that you try to convince everyone in her life that she is a liar and you are innoccent of any kind of abuse.


If there is a hidden seed of evil inside of children adults planted it there -LundyBancroft  Self-awareness is the ability to take an honest look at your life without any attachment to it being right or wrong good or bad -DebbieFord The greatest of faults is to be conscious of none -Thomas Carlyle

Penny Lane

Hi FlowerChild and welcome!

Everyone on these boards has a hard time dealing with PDs. But I think dealing with a PD child is one of the hardest. There is a special kind of sadness. I'm sorry you are dealing with it. But, you're not alone! I hope you've had a chance to check out the parents discussion board, which is full of others who are in the same boat as you.

I would add a recommendation to look through the toolbox at the top of the page. It really is a toolbox, giving all of us an array of skills as we try to navigate the most difficult of relationships. They have helped me a lot, both in terms of deescalating tension and in terms of trying to not let a pwPD affect my emotional state. I think medium chill and grey rock could especially do wonders for you.

As for telling her fiance: I strongly recommend against that. He might need to know what she's like. But he doesn't need to learn it from you. And in fact he probably won't listen - this will probably play right into her narrative. Unfortunately, no amount of reference letters will prove her wrong, to him. I don't think this is your responsibility or even something you can do.

If you feel like you need to write a letter, write one and then burn it or have some sort of ceremony. Focus your energy on your other kids, on the positive people in your life. Work on setting boundaries and removing your attention from her antics. All of that will improve your life much more than continuing an emotional war that you cannot win.

I'm glad you found us, and I look forward to hearing more from you on these boards.

:hug:

Call Me Cordelia

Welcome. Your counselor years ago suggested getting a bunch of your friends and family to write letters to discredit your teenage (?) daughter? Wow. I strongly disagree with that course of action.

I've been the victim of a smear campaign, too, and it is indeed awful. It feels like the ultimate betrayal to be lied about by a close family member, my father in my case. That smear campaign involved me being threatened with accusations of abuse as well. How we handled it was to keep it all well away from our children's awareness, stay NC, document everything, and to only acknowledge what was being said, after months, by sending a cease and desist letter directly to the perpetrators, without even addressing the content of the smear campaign. The less said, the less can be used against you. The cease and desist was a warning shot that what they were doing was in fact illegal and there would be consequences if it kept up. Both of my parents were also harassing us, which has since stopped. I'm sure the smear campaign has not, however. But without access to us and especially not the children, they really can't do much. They're out of fuel. A good parent keeps untrustworthy people away from their children. As long as we have minor children, we will stay NC.

I agree that mounting a large-scale protest/retaliation will only make it worse for you and further alienate you from your daughter and her fiancé. I understand the desire to clear your name and set the record straight. However, as unfair as it might be, I've learned the best thing is to not fight fire with fire. If you stop responding to the drama and your daughter keeps fueling it anyway, healthy people will think there's something odd about that sooner or later.

One of the most helpful truths I've learned on this forum is, "What other people think of you is none of your business." I would add to that what other people think of your daughter is likewise none of your business. It's so hard to detach from this sort of thing, especially with people you love, and our pride is severely wounded. But I do really think it's the only way to have any sort of peace in circumstances you can't control. If you can act with calm and class, you just may attain it! I'm working on that still, but faking it til I make it.  :) And in the meantime things are much better for me and my family! Best wishes to you.

Flowerchild

Hi! I can't figure out how to respond to a reply!

PeanutButter

In the upper right corner of the box of each post is a Insert Quote to click on.
If there is a hidden seed of evil inside of children adults planted it there -LundyBancroft  Self-awareness is the ability to take an honest look at your life without any attachment to it being right or wrong good or bad -DebbieFord The greatest of faults is to be conscious of none -Thomas Carlyle

Flowerchild

Peanutbutter, thank you for your reply. 
Just to clarify, I never said anything to my youngest daughter about her possibly being taken away from me.
When the counselor recommended that I have letters of character reference written on my behalf, that was during an appointment when it was just she and I.  The types of things my oldest daughter was lying about were grave and my other kids were 10 and 13 at the time.  They could reason for themselves how serious things were with my oldest D's slander.

I am wondering why exposing the truth about her lies would not help her if she has a PD?
thank you,
FC


Flowerchild

Quote from: Call Me Cordelia on June 08, 2020, 10:08:03 AM
Welcome. Your counselor years ago suggested getting a bunch of your friends and family to write letters to discredit your teenage (?) daughter? Wow. I strongly disagree with that course of action.

I've been the victim of a smear campaign, too, and it is indeed awful. It feels like the ultimate betrayal to be lied about by a close family member, my father in my case. That smear campaign involved me being threatened with accusations of abuse as well. How we handled it was to keep it all well away from our children's awareness, stay NC, document everything, and to only acknowledge what was being said, after months, by sending a cease and desist letter directly to the perpetrators, without even addressing the content of the smear campaign. The less said, the less can be used against you. The cease and desist was a warning shot that what they were doing was in fact illegal and there would be consequences if it kept up. Both of my parents were also harassing us, which has since stopped. I'm sure the smear campaign has not, however. But without access to us and especially not the children, they really can't do much. They're out of fuel. A good parent keeps untrustworthy people away from their children. As long as we have minor children, we will stay NC.

I agree that mounting a large-scale protest/retaliation will only make it worse for you and further alienate you from your daughter and her fiancé. I understand the desire to clear your name and set the record straight. However, as unfair as it might be, I've learned the best thing is to not fight fire with fire. If you stop responding to the drama and your daughter keeps fueling it anyway, healthy people will think there's something odd about that sooner or later.

One of the most helpful truths I've learned on this forum is, "What other people think of you is none of your business." I would add to that what other people think of your daughter is likewise none of your business. It's so hard to detach from this sort of thing, especially with people you love, and our pride is severely wounded. But I do really think it's the only way to have any sort of peace in circumstances you can't control. If you can act with calm and class, you just may attain it! I'm working on that still, but faking it til I make it.  :) And in the meantime things are much better for me and my family! Best wishes to you.

Hi Call Me Cordelia,
I would have never involved my other children either.
The way that it all came into the light, however, was, my son and she were taking the same high school classes and he overheard her telling 5 of their classmates very serious lies about me.  He then ended up telling our church's youth pastor, then, the pastor met with me.
The reason the counselor recommended the letters of character reference for me, was in case my oldest D told someone who reported the very false claims.
Thank you,
FC

PeanutButter

Quote from: Flowerchild on June 15, 2020, 09:51:11 PM
Peanutbutter, thank you for your reply. 
Just to clarify, I never said anything to my youngest daughter about her possibly being taken away from me.
When the counselor recommended that I have letters of character reference written on my behalf, that was during an appointment when it was just she and I.  The types of things my oldest daughter was lying about were grave and my other kids were 10 and 13 at the time.  They could reason for themselves how serious things were with my oldest D's slander.

I am wondering why exposing the truth about her lies would not help her if she has a PD?
thank you,
FC
She is in therapy. IME that is so important to her recovery!

IME Personality disorders don't usually go to therapy of their own volition. So imo this is a very positive step. It may indicate she isn't as malignant as you believe her to be at all. Maybe she has had lingering effects of trauma that she can now work through to heal with this thearapist.

Everything I have ever read or heard says that confronting someone with a personality disorder with accusations that they have a personality disorder makes the situation worse.
If there is a hidden seed of evil inside of children adults planted it there -LundyBancroft  Self-awareness is the ability to take an honest look at your life without any attachment to it being right or wrong good or bad -DebbieFord The greatest of faults is to be conscious of none -Thomas Carlyle

PeanutButter

I found this website's articles very informative. It's relating to BPD but I think it's relevant to other cluster B disorders too.
   
https://www.borderlinepersonalitydisorder.org/family-connections/family-guidelines/ 
"Essentially, defensiveness suggests that you believe the other person's anger is unwarranted, a message that leads to greater rage."

"What that individual wants most is to be heard. Of course, listening without arguing means getting hurt because it is very painful to recognize that someone you love could feel so wronged by you. Sometimes the accusations hurt because they seem to be so frankly false and unfair. Other times, they may hurt because they contain some kernel of truth."

"Remember, even when it may feel difficult to acknowledge feelings that you believe have no basis in reality, it pays to reward such expression. It is good for people, especially individuals with BPD, to put their feelings into words, no matter how much those feelings are based on distortions. If people find the verbal expression of their feelings to be rewarding, they are less likely to act out on feelings in destructive ways".
If there is a hidden seed of evil inside of children adults planted it there -LundyBancroft  Self-awareness is the ability to take an honest look at your life without any attachment to it being right or wrong good or bad -DebbieFord The greatest of faults is to be conscious of none -Thomas Carlyle

PeanutButter

I thought some more about what you've shared so far.

I think I over looked that there are other reasons maybe to send the letters. It probably wont change anything for your DD. Although anything is possible. I wouldn't get my hopes up for that.

But, maybe you need to do it for your peace of mind. It might help by at least you can know that you did everything you knew to do before you went nc. It might bring a very small amount of clousure to this very sad chapter to say your truth to her and her family. This isn't my original ideas. Ive learned this from the No contact board threads here on the forum.

As others have said it might be best to focus on your needs, your health, and your happiness. If you did that then you could decide whether to do the letters based on if it would help you. Will it make you feel better?

I am aware of other parents in similar dynamics with adult children. The adult children claim that their childhoods were abusive. The parents have went public to tell their side, their truth, that they did not abuse their child.

Some have written books. Others create blogs. Still others made Utube videos. I've even seen Face Book pages of pictures, letters, and a written narrative by a parent explaining raising their child in a non abusive way.

So I wanted to share that with you. Obviously it is common to feel the need or desire strongly to tell your side; even publicly.

Also I have heard of many letters, emails, phone calls, texts and contact made for an adult child to tell thier parent that their experience growing up was abusive even though they dont expect it to change anything or to get an admission or an apology from the parent. 

On the no contact board there are threads where people ask "should I"  just like you did. The answers vary but it is often said that if you do, then do this for yourself not for the other person to try to change them.

You tell your story, speak your truth, and stand up for yourself to help, heal, or finalize things for yourself.

It is also shared by people who have done so that they are glad they did it. It didnt fix anything but it made them feel better for finally speaking up.

Good luck.
If there is a hidden seed of evil inside of children adults planted it there -LundyBancroft  Self-awareness is the ability to take an honest look at your life without any attachment to it being right or wrong good or bad -DebbieFord The greatest of faults is to be conscious of none -Thomas Carlyle