Lockdown relaxation - anyone else dreading it?

[Happypants]

P123 - did he fall within the vulnerable category that allows him to get online shopping delivered?  I've just checked and sainsburys allow you to register on behalf of a vulnerable person to arrange online shopping.  Maybe other supermarkets do the same.  One less reason to manipulate you into visiting.

[p123]

Well they didn't change the 5 mile rule much. July 6th....

Personally I think its crazy. Shops are re-opening, professional footballers can travel 200 miles to play but we can't drive 5 miles.

They did leave a chink saying you could visit for "compasionate reasons". Dad will have seen that on the news.

[p123]

P123 - did he fall within the vulnerable category that allows him to get online shopping delivered?  I've just checked and sainsburys allow you to register on behalf of a vulnerable person to arrange online shopping.  Maybe other supermarkets do the same.  One less reason to manipulate you into visiting.

Well, I've been offering to sort home delivery shopping for years. He makes all sorts of excuses and it really annoys me.

He thinks if he hasn't got his "I've got no food in the house, you'll have to visit" card then I'll never visit. So he massively refuses to open pandoras box on that one. Hes not stupid. He likes to have things that he can toss into as bargaining chips to get his own way.

Really annoying he does this because its so obvious.

[qcdlvl]

@p123: You could go the "it's home delivery or nothing" route. You really could. You hold all the cards here. Sure, he could turn down a delivery - and then it's nothing. You could just hang up, with no warning, every time he starts to moan about wanting something delivered, or get up and leave. He has zero leverage, he's the one who wants stuff from you, not the other way around. He can have a tantrum, but you don't have to listen to it. What is he going to do, throw another tantrum?

[Pinkos]

Yes that's true Blueberry Pancakes. They cope far better than they would have us believe.
It's just like my dad's bed changing routine. Younger sis offered to do it right after mum died, and has sometimes dropped hints that I should share it. Well I never offered it, so no.    I'm 30 odd miles away and she's 2miles away.
I did wonder if she felt obligated to fill mum's  shoes because it was seen by dad as 'women's work'.
Well, lockdown has proved what I suspected all along, that he was capable of doing this chore himself. He's been fine with the whole thing for a good three months now.
I think younger sis is sorry she started it. Perhaps this is her chance to wriggle out of it, once lockdown is over? 
P123. Told you I was keeping my calls to dad to weekly? He clearly doesn't think it's often enough. 
When I ring, he's  taken to ignoring my calls, then not returning them. Then when I do get through, he immediately says he's busy, and  then puts the phone down for an age while he faffs about, or else insists on ringing me back later. I know he's making at least some of these excuses up, because the reason he gives me when he claims it's a bad time to ring, has sometimes changed to another reason by the end of the call( he forgets what he said in the first place!).
Every single time I say ' Hi dad', I get  'Ah um I was just about to....  it's a bad time. 😦 He doesn't even say ' Hi '. It's just straight into the complaint about my bad timing.  😞

Wow, this post is so validating! Because I had been wondering if I'm just imagining things. I broke NC recently with my dad right before the Covid stay at home orders. I was keeping calls to about every 3 weeks but sometimes I'd call every 2 weeks. If he called me weekly, I didn't answer cause I didn't want to be guilted into more contact than I was comfortable with. (Even though I regretted breaking NC, I thought I would try to see if a polite, superficial contact with no expectations would be possible.)

The last couple times he's been playing the same games as your dad. Pretending to be busy and getting off the phone quickly after superficial niceties and the last time he picked up and said he was out with friends, and I asked 'aren't you worried about the virus?' and he said 'he was on Zoom' and he was speaking in hushed tones. Then he said he would call me the next day and asked me what was a good time.  I just told him I'd call him back and said good bye.

Now he's never done this before, asked for a specific time. Also, why even pick up if you're on a Zoom call? Why not just call me back when you get off the call? And why do you have to call me the next day? Supposedly, you want more contact and you're miffed about every 2-3 weeks. The whole thing just seemed so orchestrated to make me feel some kind of way. Like he was too busy for me or I wasn't important enough. He's been covertly hostile with me since I broke NC. But this was the final straw and I was just so sick of all the mind games I had been free of for 5 years. So I haven't called him back since. I guess I had hoped that maybe the long period of NC would give him pause.

[p123]

Dunno if its me who now assumes everyone, like Dad is trying some sort of angle, got MIL problems now.

Our offer or her staying 2 nights a week  like she did before lock down has extended to 3. She cleverly managed to invite herself the extra day. Now shes pushing and pushing for more. Shes OK but 2 night per week before was ENOUGH. We have no plans to allow "catchup" due to her being stuck home in lockdown.

Arrghhh! Surely I can't have a narc father and a narc MIL lol/

[doglady]

“Arrghhh! Surely I can't have a narc father and a narc MIL lol/“

(Laughs bitterly....)
Oh, I assure you p123, you can most definitely have both!
In my case it’s a unpdM and an unpdMIL, the former more covert/martyrish and the latter much more overt and bullying. Both are married to enablers.

And, when you think about it, it’s hardly surprising if our parents and our in laws have similar personalities, after all we ourselves often tend to get together with partners who come from similar dynamics/value systems.

Maybe your father and your MIL should get together!!

[nanotech]

Yes that's true Blueberry Pancakes. They cope far better than they would have us believe.
It's just like my dad's bed changing routine. Younger sis offered to do it right after mum died, and has sometimes dropped hints that I should share it. Well I never offered it, so no.    I'm 30 odd miles away and she's 2miles away.
I did wonder if she felt obligated to fill mum's  shoes because it was seen by dad as 'women's work'.
Well, lockdown has proved what I suspected all along, that he was capable of doing this chore himself. He's been fine with the whole thing for a good three months now.
I think younger sis is sorry she started it. Perhaps this is her chance to wriggle out of it, once lockdown is over? 
P123. Told you I was keeping my calls to dad to weekly? He clearly doesn't think it's often enough. 
When I ring, he's  taken to ignoring my calls, then not returning them. Then when I do get through, he immediately says he's busy, and  then puts the phone down for an age while he faffs about, or else insists on ringing me back later. I know he's making at least some of these excuses up, because the reason he gives me when he claims it's a bad time to ring, has sometimes changed to another reason by the end of the call( he forgets what he said in the first place!).
Every single time I say ' Hi dad', I get  'Ah um I was just about to....  it's a bad time. 😦 He doesn't even say ' Hi '. It's just straight into the complaint about my bad timing.  😞

Wow, this post is so validating! Because I had been wondering if I'm just imagining things. I broke NC recently with my dad right before the Covid stay at home orders. I was keeping calls to about every 3 weeks but sometimes I'd call every 2 weeks. If he called me weekly, I didn't answer cause I didn't want to be guilted into more contact than I was comfortable with. (Even though I regretted breaking NC, I thought I would try to see if a polite, superficial contact with no expectations would be possible.)

The last couple times he's been playing the same games as your dad. Pretending to be busy and getting off the phone quickly after superficial niceties and the last time he picked up and said he was out with friends, and I asked 'aren't you worried about the virus?' and he said 'he was on Zoom' and he was speaking in hushed tones. Then he said he would call me the next day and asked me what was a good time.  I just told him I'd call him back and said good bye.

Now he's never done this before, asked for a specific time. Also, why even pick up if you're on a Zoom call? Why not just call me back when you get off the call? And why do you have to call me the next day? Supposedly, you want more contact and you're miffed about every 2-3 weeks. The whole thing just seemed so orchestrated to make me feel some kind of way. Like he was too busy for me or I wasn't important enough. He's been covertly hostile with me since I broke NC. But this was the final straw and I was just so sick of all the mind games I had been free of for 5 years. So I haven't called him back since. I guess I had hoped that maybe the long period of NC would give him pause.

Yes it's just like P123 puts it - an eternal chess game. With my dad, I've found too if I begin to call him less, then when I do call, he's more reasonable.
He still tries now and again to lure me back. But once you know, how can you unknow?  The cake is baked.
Sometimes he will ring and say he can't remember when he last spoke to me. If he does that I don't rise to it. He doesn't irritate my guilt buttons any more because I recognise it as abuse that simply has to be medium -chilled.
When he says something like that to me I take it on as a topic of interest ( hmm when did I call?) and detach my emotions , then I don't dwell. I never JADE. I particularly NEVER explain myself to my dad.
Yes I'd love a normal father-daughter relationship, but I've ceased gaslighting myself and others on that one, and now I'm all the healthier for it.
I'd love to call him every day just to check he hasn't had a fall etc. He's old and lives alone. If I called every day he'd become abusive within a very short time indeed. It's a VLC of his own making.

[p123]

"Arrghhh! Surely I can't have a narc father and a narc MIL lol/"

(Laughs bitterly....)
Oh, I assure you p123, you can most definitely have both!
In my case it's a unpdM and an unpdMIL, the former more covert/martyrish and the latter much more overt and bullying. Both are married to enablers.

And, when you think about it, it's hardly surprising if our parents and our in laws have similar personalities, after all we ourselves often tend to get together with partners who come from similar dynamics/value systems.

Maybe your father and your MIL should get together!!

Jeez imagine that.

I do keep threatening when she says she'll stay that she can share a bedroom with my dad then!

[p123]

A classic last night.....

Brother has been doing the shopping for months now. To be fair, he lives a mile away and legally we cant drive more than 5 miles still in wales. He also lost his job so had plenty of time. I just knew he resented it.
So I visit dad for the first time last weekend (there is some allowance now to visit an elderly relative who needs help), did his shopping etc.

So speak to Dad yesterday. Please can I visit sunday because brother is working all weekend and his wife is. Complete rubbish.

A "new" job appeared out of the blue for brother a week ago. I think its made up. His wife sits at home most days doing nothing occasionally she paints peoples houses. Suddenly, they're both working ALL weekend. Oh but is lucky because I'm OK to visit now so I can "do my turn". There is no way in a million years they are both working.

Seen this about 10 times before with brother - he hates it that he think I don't "do my turn". Can guarantee hes not working at all this weekend but is doing this to try and force me.

And Dad - "need groceries". I was there THREE days ago. You don't need anything.

I'm so annoyed. I have plans for sunday as it was, I've got the kids to look after. I just hate when they play these stupid games to try and force me to do what they want.
Its just crazy. Of course, Dad will deny all knowledge that this is a trick but I do wonder if he knows the score.

REALLY REALLY think I'm not going to go. If I give in its going to open the floodgates for even more tricks from them.

[nanotech]

A classic last night.....

Brother has been doing the shopping for months now. To be fair, he lives a mile away and legally we cant drive more than 5 miles still in wales. He also lost his job so had plenty of time. I just knew he resented it.
So I visit dad for the first time last weekend (there is some allowance now to visit an elderly relative who needs help), did his shopping etc.

So speak to Dad yesterday. Please can I visit sunday because brother is working all weekend and his wife is. Complete rubbish.

A "new" job appeared out of the blue for brother a week ago. I think its made up. His wife sits at home most days doing nothing occasionally she paints peoples houses. Suddenly, they're both working ALL weekend. Oh but is lucky because I'm OK to visit now so I can "do my turn". There is no way in a million years they are both working.

Seen this about 10 times before with brother - he hates it that he think I don't "do my turn". Can guarantee hes not working at all this weekend but is doing this to try and force me.

And Dad - "need groceries". I was there THREE days ago. You don't need anything.

I'm so annoyed. I have plans for sunday as it was, I've got the kids to look after. I just hate when they play these stupid games to try and force me to do what they want.
Its just crazy. Of course, Dad will deny all knowledge that this is a trick but I do wonder if he knows the score.

REALLY REALLY think I'm not going to go. If I give in its going to open the floodgates for even more tricks from them

P123, He can always have a grocery 🚚 delivery.You have plans.
Your dad doesn't need you to go. You don't want to go.
So there's no wanting, and definitely no needing.
So have a lovely Sunday, with your kids, as planned!

[PeanutButter]

A classic last night.....

Brother has been doing the shopping for months now. To be fair, he lives a mile away and legally we cant drive more than 5 miles still in wales. He also lost his job so had plenty of time. I just knew he resented it.
So I visit dad for the first time last weekend (there is some allowance now to visit an elderly relative who needs help), did his shopping etc.

So speak to Dad yesterday. Please can I visit sunday because brother is working all weekend and his wife is. Complete rubbish.

A "new" job appeared out of the blue for brother a week ago. I think its made up. His wife sits at home most days doing nothing occasionally she paints peoples houses. Suddenly, they're both working ALL weekend. Oh but is lucky because I'm OK to visit now so I can "do my turn". There is no way in a million years they are both working.

Seen this about 10 times before with brother - he hates it that he think I don't "do my turn". Can guarantee hes not working at all this weekend but is doing this to try and force me.

And Dad - "need groceries". I was there THREE days ago. You don't need anything.

I'm so annoyed. I have plans for sunday as it was, I've got the kids to look after. I just hate when they play these stupid games to try and force me to do what they want.
Its just crazy. Of course, Dad will deny all knowledge that this is a trick but I do wonder if he knows the score.

REALLY REALLY think I'm not going to go. If I give in its going to open the floodgates for even more tricks from them.

Is it possible brother doesn't care whether you go or not but he just isnt going to go?

It sounds like you dad is the one demanding you go.

Your brother saying no and making an excuse isnt necessarily about you. imo

YOU are actually the only person who can force you to do it.

  I understand that you wouldnt be pestered by dad to come if brother was "doing his part" so it seems like this is trouble caused by brother but imo its just more of the same from your dad.

Good luck!

[p123]

A classic last night.....

Brother has been doing the shopping for months now. To be fair, he lives a mile away and legally we cant drive more than 5 miles still in wales. He also lost his job so had plenty of time. I just knew he resented it.
So I visit dad for the first time last weekend (there is some allowance now to visit an elderly relative who needs help), did his shopping etc.

So speak to Dad yesterday. Please can I visit sunday because brother is working all weekend and his wife is. Complete rubbish.

A "new" job appeared out of the blue for brother a week ago. I think its made up. His wife sits at home most days doing nothing occasionally she paints peoples houses. Suddenly, they're both working ALL weekend. Oh but is lucky because I'm OK to visit now so I can "do my turn". There is no way in a million years they are both working.

Seen this about 10 times before with brother - he hates it that he think I don't "do my turn". Can guarantee hes not working at all this weekend but is doing this to try and force me.

And Dad - "need groceries". I was there THREE days ago. You don't need anything.

I'm so annoyed. I have plans for sunday as it was, I've got the kids to look after. I just hate when they play these stupid games to try and force me to do what they want.
Its just crazy. Of course, Dad will deny all knowledge that this is a trick but I do wonder if he knows the score.

REALLY REALLY think I'm not going to go. If I give in its going to open the floodgates for even more tricks from them

P123, He can always have a grocery 🚚 delivery.You have plans.
Your dad doesn't need you to go. You don't want to go.
So there's no wanting, and definitely no needing.
So have a lovely Sunday, with your kids, as planned!

Exactly - how can you need shopping after 3 days?

He WANTS me to go of course thats just an excuse...

[p123]

A classic last night.....

Brother has been doing the shopping for months now. To be fair, he lives a mile away and legally we cant drive more than 5 miles still in wales. He also lost his job so had plenty of time. I just knew he resented it.
So I visit dad for the first time last weekend (there is some allowance now to visit an elderly relative who needs help), did his shopping etc.

So speak to Dad yesterday. Please can I visit sunday because brother is working all weekend and his wife is. Complete rubbish.

A "new" job appeared out of the blue for brother a week ago. I think its made up. His wife sits at home most days doing nothing occasionally she paints peoples houses. Suddenly, they're both working ALL weekend. Oh but is lucky because I'm OK to visit now so I can "do my turn". There is no way in a million years they are both working.

Seen this about 10 times before with brother - he hates it that he think I don't "do my turn". Can guarantee hes not working at all this weekend but is doing this to try and force me.

And Dad - "need groceries". I was there THREE days ago. You don't need anything.

I'm so annoyed. I have plans for sunday as it was, I've got the kids to look after. I just hate when they play these stupid games to try and force me to do what they want.
Its just crazy. Of course, Dad will deny all knowledge that this is a trick but I do wonder if he knows the score.

REALLY REALLY think I'm not going to go. If I give in its going to open the floodgates for even more tricks from them.

Is it possible brother doesn't care whether you go or not but he just isnt going to go?

It sounds like you dad is the one demanding you go.

Your brother saying no and making an excuse isnt necessarily about you. imo

YOU are actually the only person who can force you to do it.

  I understand that you wouldnt be pestered by dad to come if brother was "doing his part" so it seems like this is trouble caused by brother but imo its just more of the same from your dad.

Good luck!

Well, I had doubts that brothers new job a few weeks ago is actually real. Its probably not to be honest. Hes done this sort of thing before.
Also, I know he has a massive chip on his shoulder that he "does it all" and I need to do more.

Its two-fold I think. He gets out of this weekend, but he also thinks it puts pressure on me to step up.

What Dad actually said was:-
"I need a really big favour from you. I saw your brother. He apologised he can't come the weekend because they're both working. He said I should ask you to come. Thing is I really need shopping and I told him I'm, sure you'll come".

Obvious or what? Guilt trip = massive.

Dad I'm not 100% sure. My brother can do no wrong so he won't think theres anything fishy here at all. Does he realise they are both trying to trick me? I'm beginning to think that Dad can see me fighting back and knows damn well what hes doing. The words "really big favour" annoy me - there is no need to lay it on like that.

I'm not going. I intend to go one night next week because IT SUITS ME BETTER.

[PeanutButter]

Well, I had doubts that brothers new job a few weeks ago is actually real. Its probably not to be honest. Hes done this sort of thing before.
Also, I know he has a massive chip on his shoulder that he "does it all" and I need to do more.
Its two-fold I think. He gets out of this weekend, but he also thinks it puts pressure on me to step up.
What Dad actually said was:-
"I need a really big favour from you. I saw your brother. He apologised he can't come the weekend because they're both working. He said I should ask you to come. Thing is I really need shopping and I told him I'm, sure you'll come".
Obvious or what? Guilt trip = massive.
Dad I'm not 100% sure. My brother can do no wrong so he won't think theres anything fishy here at all. Does he realise they are both trying to trick me? I'm beginning to think that Dad can see me fighting back and knows damn well what hes doing. The words "really big favour" annoy me - there is no need to lay it on like that.
I'm not going. I intend to go one night next week because IT SUITS ME BETTER.

I would defiantly agree that your gut (intuition) is telling the truth and your brother is fibbing.
You are recognising the guilt trips like a pro now.
Imo you are probably correct that your dad knows at the very least that brother is prone to fibbing but just won't admit it. A GC is a perfect clone of the pdF or pdM.
Im so glad you are not allowing them to manipulate you into this unplanned extra visit.
Good for you.

[p123]

Well, I had doubts that brothers new job a few weeks ago is actually real. Its probably not to be honest. Hes done this sort of thing before.
Also, I know he has a massive chip on his shoulder that he "does it all" and I need to do more.
Its two-fold I think. He gets out of this weekend, but he also thinks it puts pressure on me to step up.
What Dad actually said was:-
"I need a really big favour from you. I saw your brother. He apologised he can't come the weekend because they're both working. He said I should ask you to come. Thing is I really need shopping and I told him I'm, sure you'll come".
Obvious or what? Guilt trip = massive.
Dad I'm not 100% sure. My brother can do no wrong so he won't think theres anything fishy here at all. Does he realise they are both trying to trick me? I'm beginning to think that Dad can see me fighting back and knows damn well what hes doing. The words "really big favour" annoy me - there is no need to lay it on like that.
I'm not going. I intend to go one night next week because IT SUITS ME BETTER.

I would defiantly agree that your gut (intuition) is telling the truth and your brother is fibbing.
You are recognising the guilt trips like a pro now.
Imo you are probably correct that your dad knows at the very least that brother is prone to fibbing but just won't admit it. A GC is a perfect clone of the pdF or pdM.
Im so glad you are not allowing them to manipulate you into this unplanned extra visit.
Good for you.

Oh in the past I've pointed out blatant lies that my brother has told. Give him proof the lot. All he does is change the subject. He does not want to believe that son #2 is not perfect.

He plays dull with things like this too. As if he doesnt know whats going on. Theres more to it I know. He will try something via my brother then when it doesnt work hes like "oh thats ok it didnt matter" its just WAY TOO obvious sometimes.

The way this has worked out, how its been worded is all too well worked out.... Dad knows that, in the past, "oh do me a big favour" and "I've got no shopping" has worked.
He hasn;t helped himself with saying he needs shopping when I went last weekend and filled his freezer, fridge and cupboard up. Its just SOOOO obvious.

[p123]

Im going to phone him sunday am and say sorry got to work....

I know from previous experience hes gonna say something like "Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, what am I going to do?". He did this once when I'd been in work for like 24 hours and I thought at the time "oh thanks for that I feel great now". He still does it.  Its not the end of the world if I dont go.

Although you may have seen the thread once. I was working didnt know what time I'd get there but I did go. As the call ended I heard him say "oh thank you God, thank you hes coming". That was well freaky. It sort of made me wonder how obsessed he is that I should visit.

I mean surely a normal parent, in this sort of sitaution would say "oh thats ok I understand, no worries" even if they were a little disappointed.

[PeanutButter]

Im going to phone him sunday am and say sorry got to work....

I know from previous experience hes gonna say something like "Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, what am I going to do?". He did this once when I'd been in work for like 24 hours and I thought at the time "oh thanks for that I feel great now". He still does it.  Its not the end of the world if I dont go.

Although you may have seen the thread once. I was working didnt know what time I'd get there but I did go. As the call ended I heard him say "oh thank you God, thank you hes coming". That was well freaky. It sort of made me wonder how obsessed he is that I should visit.

I mean surely a normal parent, in this sort of sitaution would say "oh thats ok I understand, no worries" even if they were a little disappointed.

Yes i remember that one.
It is confusing/disturbing that he feels so soooooo strongly about needing you to come isnt it? Maybe he is getting worse with age?
Im glad you dont give up your plans.
Calling him at the last minute sounds like a good way to handle it

[PeanutButter]

Oh in the past I've pointed out blatant lies that my brother has told. Give him proof the lot. All he does is change the subject. He does not want to believe that son #2 is not perfect.

He plays dull with things like this too. As if he doesnt know whats going on. Theres more to it I know. He will try something via my brother then when it doesnt work hes like "oh thats ok it didnt matter" its just WAY TOO obvious sometimes.

The way this has worked out, how its been worded is all too well worked out.... Dad knows that, in the past, "oh do me a big favour" and "I've got no shopping" has worked.
He hasn;t helped himself with saying he needs shopping when I went last weekend and filled his freezer, fridge and cupboard up. Its just SOOOO obvious.

Yeh you would expect at least some curiosity. Like you saying "i seen brother out yesterday I guess he didnt go out of town after all" your dad should respond " oh? No kidding? Where did you see him at? I wonder why he isnt out of town?"  BUT instead he says "hum you must be seeing things" then changes the subject he knows something you dont in that scenario imo

If it was me I would rather someone just be straght up with me. I get very angry too when I feel like someone is trying to BS me. Just give it to me straight and Im more likely to cooperate.

[lkdrymom]

The thing is, when he changes the subject after you have caught an obvious lie...you can't let it drop.  We all have parents who think they can easily snow us.  And he will continue to do this until you make it so unpleasant for him. Next time he pulls this, don't let it slide.  He harps on you to visit...well you harp on him to admit your brother lied.