What I say goes - according to Dad anyway

[p123]

Bit of a falling out with Dad on the phone last night. I've had enough of his overbearing "I think this so you must do it because I know best".

Holiday to Florida again. As I've said, its booked end August. If flights don't go, we're not allowed in to the USA, or whatever it gets cancelled I get a refund and its out of my hands. BUT I'm keen to go if we can.
Dad got really nasty on the phone last night telling me I'm stupid and irresponsible because Covid is "getting worse". Yeh see hes not even got that right!

He even tried "yes but if you go you'll make me worry and thats not fair for you to that!". Well unimpressed with that one. I'll control your life by pulling out the guilt trip card.
In the end, I told him to drop it. Its not his decision its mine and my wifes and I'm a grown adult and able to decide for ourselves and his nasty intervention is not needed.

Past experience shows me he won't drop it. He'll mention it every single time now "so has the airline cancelled?" "have you changed your mind?"

I dont think he realises thought that the guilt trip no longer works on me. I'm not changing my wife or expecting my family to do the same because "hes worried". Its just not on. I've told him many times he may need to speak to someone about how he excessively worries about things and hes never bothered. Its his problem not mine now.

Anyone else get this sort of thing? I just don't get why they think they "own" your life?

[lkdrymom]

What I found with my father is that if he wants his own way he seems to think he can BE THE PARENT and just raise his voice and I will comply.  He forgets that he NEEDS me, not the other way around.  I shut that down real quick.

For whatever reason your father doesn't want you away....he is jealous that you get to go, he is mad that you aren't there to serve him,  he is mad you are making decisions without his input.  Bu the forgets he really has no say in what you do. Loss of power over someone else is what really bothers him.

[nanotech]

My dad is the same. The reason is connected to their own feelings of discomfort, when it's something they wouldn't do.
They require you to be like an extra limb rather than a person in your own right.
He's acting like you want to go on a school trip and it's up to him whether you go!
( I could never go on any they were all too dangerous or too costly! ) .
It's such a shame when they can't be pleased for us or glad for us that we are living our lives fully.

[p123]

What I found with my father is that if he wants his own way he seems to think he can BE THE PARENT and just raise his voice and I will comply.  He forgets that he NEEDS me, not the other way around.  I shut that down real quick.

For whatever reason your father doesn't want you away....he is jealous that you get to go, he is mad that you aren't there to serve him,  he is mad you are making decisions without his input.  Bu the forgets he really has no say in what you do. Loss of power over someone else is what really bothers him.

You're not wrong there. Its all of these reasons and he sames to HATE that I wont do as he says. Jeez I'm 52 years old!

[p123]

My dad is the same. The reason is connected to their own feelings of discomfort, when it's something they wouldn't do.
They require you to be like an extra limb rather than a person in your own right.
He's acting like you want to go on a school trip and it's up to him whether you go!
( I could never go on any they were all too dangerous or too costly! ) .
It's such a shame when they can't be pleased for us or glad for us that we are living our lives fully.

Thing is Dads view on the world and life experiences are so narrow. Hes never been anywhere - always been too scared. I'm NOT being like him.

[nanotech]

My dad is the same. The reason is connected to their own feelings of discomfort, when it's something they wouldn't do.
They require you to be like an extra limb rather than a person in your own right.
He's acting like you want to go on a school trip and it's up to him whether you go!
( I could never go on any they were all too dangerous or too costly! ) .
It's such a shame when they can't be pleased for us or glad for us that we are living our lives fully.

Thing is Dads view on the world and life experiences are so narrow. Hes never been anywhere - always been too scared. I'm NOT being like him.

Yes they actually do expect you to give your  up your world for them.
Any part of your world that doesn't involve them, or doesn't reflect their choices, they view as a waste of time and energy!
It's the lack of empathy, I think.
Lots of people remain in the fog and they live all their lives under the shadow of the PD parents.

[11JB68]

Read Evans Controlling People.
They don't see is as real/separate people.

[Deb2]

Read Evans Controlling People.
They don't see is as real/separate people.

100% agree with this.  That book helped me soooo much.  I need to reread it! I am dealing with a uNPD BIL with early dementia.  Fortunately,  I don't have to be a caregiver.  My late husband said he believed his brother is a sociopath.  My BIL thinks everyone believes the way he does and needs to behave as he'd does.    During my husband's long illness, he tried to demand to be on charge of my DH's medical care. That was met with me hanging up on him and neither DH or I spoke to him for almost 3 months. He still tried to tell us what to do, but it was more subtle and we ignored him. We went VVVVLC.

Back to the above mentioned book. It really helped me to understand what was going on with an ex uPD friend.

[lkdrymom]

Another view is that if you make decisions that they would never do or go places they would never go, that to them says you are telling them they are wrong.  They don't understand the concept of 'having a different opinion'.  He probably spent his whole life around people who thought the way he did.  You like to travel and he won't travel farther than he can walk in an hour. My ex MIL was like that. Never left the 'neighborhood'.  Couldn't understand why when we got married it was in my home town.  FYI only 40 miles away.  You got married at the local church and bought/rented a place within blocks of your parents.  Your entire life was spent in a small little bubble. He cannot understand your desire to go to the USA.  Because he would never do that.  And by wanting to go you are saying there is something wrong with his ideas.

When we did buy a house about  20 minutes from my MIL...all her kids were shocked she actually came to visit at our house as it was 'so far away'.  It was unheard of for her to travel that far.

[nanotech]

Another view is that if you make decisions that they would never do or go places they would never go, that to them says you are telling them they are wrong.  They don't understand the concept of 'having a different opinion'.  He probably spent his whole life around people who thought the way he did.  You like to travel and he won't travel farther than he can walk in an hour. My ex MIL was like that. Never left the 'neighborhood'.  Couldn't understand why when we got married it was in my home town.  FYI only 40 miles away.  You got married at the local church and bought/rented a place within blocks of your parents.  Your entire life was spent in a small little bubble. He cannot understand your desire to go to the USA.  Because he would never do that.  And by wanting to go you are saying there is something wrong with his ideas.

When we did buy a house about  20 minutes from my MIL...all her kids were shocked she actually came to visit at our house as it was 'so far away'.  It was unheard of for her to travel that far.

[p123]

Another view is that if you make decisions that they would never do or go places they would never go, that to them says you are telling them they are wrong.  They don't understand the concept of 'having a different opinion'.  He probably spent his whole life around people who thought the way he did.  You like to travel and he won't travel farther than he can walk in an hour. My ex MIL was like that. Never left the 'neighborhood'.  Couldn't understand why when we got married it was in my home town.  FYI only 40 miles away.  You got married at the local church and bought/rented a place within blocks of your parents.  Your entire life was spent in a small little bubble. He cannot understand your desire to go to the USA.  Because he would never do that.  And by wanting to go you are saying there is something wrong with his ideas.

When we did buy a house about  20 minutes from my MIL...all her kids were shocked she actually came to visit at our house as it was 'so far away'.  It was unheard of for her to travel that far.

Yes I think thats it. He disagrees with EVERYTHING I do though. Job, holidays, kids etc etc.

My brother is the golden child. Everything he does is right. Works in a proper manual job, lives in hometown, blah blah blah.

[p123]

He came out with a classic last night on the phone.

"So are you stll going to Florida?"
"Dad I told you I dont know yet"

"Well, if you do go I'll be worried sick, and I don't know what will happen to me".

I was SOOOOOO annoyed. Put the phone down on him and said we'd speak in a few days. How dare he try to guilt trip and threaten me to do what he wants....
Im banging the keys furiously here just thinking about it.

I don't think hes realised I'm past all that. I will get on that plane regardless of how badly it affects him. I know he has anxiety issues, I've offered to help many times, but he refuses to believe such things are real.
I would rather have no contact that have him try to ruin my life like this.

[PeanutButter]

Good job 123! You are standing up for yourself and your foc! You should be proud.

You deserve to live your life how you want it.

But its not just that. You are responsible, successful, reasonable, and thoughtful. None of that seems to be recognised. Instead it seems he wants to pretend only he has the great capability to know what you should or shouldnt do what is safe for you and what is not.

And when that didnt work? Well what do you know? No big surprise its actually 'all about him' and 'how can you do this to him?"

I would be angry too. Thats normal. Thats understandable.

Hang in there.

[p123]

Good job 123! You are standing up for yourself and your foc! You should be proud.

You deserve to live your life how you want it.

But its not just that. You are responsible, successful, reasonable, and thoughtful. None of that seems to be recognised. Instead it seems he wants to pretend only he has the great capability to know what you should or shouldnt do what is safe for you and what is not.

And when that didnt work? Well what do you know? No big surprise its actually 'all about him' and 'how can you do this to him?"

I would be angry too. Thats normal. Thats understandable.

Hang in there.

Still SO annoyed at him......

To be honest, its made me MORE resolved now. Whereas before I might have considered him a little, with this behaviour hes now blown it all apart. He can do what he wants now. I make my decisions and he gets zero consideration from now on - thats it.

[Deb2]

"  I don't know what will happen to me". 

It's all about him! But you knew that.  How selfish.

[illogical]

Hi p123,

I think you are seeing that your dad is totally focused on himself and not on you.  This is classic, textbook NPD behavior.

I cannot count the times I helped my NM as an adult, before I knew she was a N and after I knew she was a N, and, still, I wanted her approval and wanted her to acknowledge me as a person, an individual.  This was not going to happen.  She was not capable of it.  Like a horse with blinders on, she saw only her needs, not mine, not anyone else's.

So I think maybe you are seeing the selfishness, the self-absorption of your dad here.  He's not capable of seeing that you or yours count or matter.  He's only focused on himself.  Look at how he reacted to your telling him you were going to Florida-- he said he would be worried sick, implying he would be worried about YOU, but really, he was worried you would not be around to tend to him.  So typical N.

I think your anger is healthy.  I think it's telling you you need to focus on yourself.  Your father will not change-- as you have determined-- he will always be focused on himself and his needs.  You will always be on the back burner, an afterthought, with little to no consideration or acknowledgement of what you have done to help him.  Think about that-- when has he been grateful for what you have done?  When has he acknowledged your sacrifices to help him?

Hang in there.  You are experiencing an awakening.  You are beginning to see that you have to tread very carefully here, or he will suck the very life out of you.  Take care!

[lkdrymom]

I think all elderly are hyper focused on themselves and their needs.  To the point where it seems like they don't care about anyone or anything else (which may or may  not be true).  If you were supposed to do something for them and for some reason couldn't (sick, car broke down) they wouldn't just find someone else to help them...they would expect you to find someone to help them.

Next time he asks about going Florida say you plan on it if you can. When he whines about 'what is he going to do?"  ask him what your trip has to do with him? Remind him he got along fine during  the Covid 19 and he will survive two weeks without you again.  Really it is time to get mad at him.  When he says he doesn't want to ask your brother because he works SO HARD....ask him if he thinks you don't!  He is the way he is because others are too polite to put him in his place.  I had a grandmother like this. Everyone was afraid to make her mad so they appeased all the time which in turn created and entitled monster.  I was young and didn't know any better. If she offended me I got mad.  I found that she didn't try and pull nearly as much crap on me as she did others.  I was the only one to realize she didn't have any power over me.  I remember my grandmother yelling at my father when he was 65 and he was cowering like a frightened child. Why? She had absolutely nothing to hold over him.  He was just trained to serve her from a very young child.

[p123]

I think all elderly are hyper focused on themselves and their needs.  To the point where it seems like they don't care about anyone or anything else (which may or may  not be true).  If you were supposed to do something for them and for some reason couldn't (sick, car broke down) they wouldn't just find someone else to help them...they would expect you to find someone to help them.

Next time he asks about going Florida say you plan on it if you can. When he whines about 'what is he going to do?"  ask him what your trip has to do with him? Remind him he got along fine during  the Covid 19 and he will survive two weeks without you again.  Really it is time to get mad at him.  When he says he doesn't want to ask your brother because he works SO HARD....ask him if he thinks you don't!  He is the way he is because others are too polite to put him in his place.  I had a grandmother like this. Everyone was afraid to make her mad so they appeased all the time which in turn created and entitled monster.  I was young and didn't know any better. If she offended me I got mad.  I found that she didn't try and pull nearly as much crap on me as she did others.  I was the only one to realize she didn't have any power over me.  I remember my grandmother yelling at my father when he was 65 and he was cowering like a frightened child. Why? She had absolutely nothing to hold over him.  He was just trained to serve her from a very young child.

Yep exactly..... Everyone else treats Dad with kid gloves. All the Flying monkeys circling the sky.
I'm deffo down as the "selfish one who only thinks of himself" now with the rest of the family. But do you know what I DON'TCARE.

They can think what they want. I've made my peace with myself. I know I've done my best.
If he drops dead in his chair, because hes called the ambulance 100 times and they refuse to come out - HIS FAULT.
If he falls down the stairs because hes too tight fisted to allow me to get the carpet fixed - HIS FAULT.
If he starves to death because he refuses to allow me to get food delivered to him - HIS FAULT.

[illogical]

Hi p123,

You might want to put your dad on an "information diet", as frequently advocated by myself, WI and others. 

So this means don't tell him your plans, don't inform him of your trip to Florida.  I know you have already done so, but maybe be very, very vague about the trip.  Tell him you don't know if it will be possible and change the subject.  The more your dad knows about your plans, the more he will likely try to disrupt them.

My NM was very jealous of me-- jealous of my youth, my job, my life in general.  My GC brother was perfect in her eyes, could do no wrong while I could do no right.

So I think your dad could be very jealous of your life-- your family, the fact you are married with wife and children that care about you  and a job you like.  He compares you to himself-- he is alone, is dependent on others, has pissed off many in his life. 

Your "indifference" is headed in the right direction.  It has been my experience that Ns really can't process that.  They want you to "care", i.e., give them attention.  They can't fathom that you wouldn't tend to their needs or not give a flip for their wants-- after all, they are the SUN, in which others in their life orbit around them and serve their needs.  Take care!

[Adrianna]

I totally agree. Give him as little information as possible about you and your plans. Literally do not tell him anything personal unless absolutely necessary. It's not worth the stress it will cause you.