Seeing how others are like it too

[p123]

Always wondered this - my Dad is defintely a narc hes been at it for years. I've often wondered if it clouds my thinking of others. Does it make us more susceptible to see what others are doing or does it make us look at others differently maybe unfairly?

An example - my Dad  is awful. Plays games, manipulates the situation all the time.

My MIL on the other hand in nice enough. The kids love her, wife is so easy going lets her do what she wants. I'd rather spend a day in her company than an hour with Dad to be honest.
BUT, I've noticed she can have her moments too especially recently.

Before lock down, she used to stay 2 nights a week. It started off as childcare but it became more of a thing for her as our daughter whos now 7 got older. She lived alone and enjoyed it. Like I said shes OK, can take over a bit get a bit much so 2 night was enough to be honest. Even my wife said this. After 2-3 days in the past, they start to argue - we often joke about the "2 day limit" with her mum.

She was stuck on her own for months in lockdown but we think its safe for her to come back. Wifes siblings as they do have hidden and left it to use. So my wife and I agreed to do the 2 night thing.
So wife says "if I get you on a wednesday and take you home friday"  - silence. Then "or I'll get you on a tuesday and take you home on a thur..." and she jumped in "yes friday". Got an extra day before we could say anything. Next day when wife spoke to her it was "oh if you need help maybe I'll come on a monday", then " or a sunday".

The 2 day offer shes trying to morph into 5-6 days per week. Wife has been good so far but doesnt see the problem.  Now I'm trying to help her out here but 5-6 days per week at our house doesnt give us much space!

Now am I reading too much into this? Is she really "trying it on here" and being mean to use or is this just a lonely old lady here?
Is it normal that an elderly relative can be like this? I think I might be clouded by assuming everyone thinks like Dad and is all out for themselves.

Thing is shes opposite of Dad in terms or our kids. He does not care about them. Our daighter loves nanna to bits and would love it if she were hear 5-6 days per week! BUT it just wouldnt work.

Should we just assume shes not a narc, let the extra day thing shes wangled slide for now but ensure we're on the watch for further things.....

[doglady]

If you and your wife think it's too much, then it's too much. It's not an unreasonable boundary to keep it to the two days a week. Your MIL slid in a sneaky one there - with her fluid timeframes of three, four, five, and up to six days!! Be careful that doesn't segue into, 'Well, I might as well move in since I'm here most of the time anyway.'
Good luck with sticking to your boundaries, p123. It'll be easier if you and your wife are both on the same page.

[PeanutButter]

IME maybe you are better at recognising boundary violating behaviors now.

So even if your mil isnt a narc too, she is using manipulating behaviors to get what she wants. Imo a 'non' would simply ask for what they want not try to trick someone.

Ime go with your gut. Dont second guess yourself much. Focus on the behaviors that are unacceptable.

Mil seems very selfish to not consider the impact a long visit will have on your life.

[p123]

I'm torn at the moment between trying to be a nice person and not letting her get away with it.

Undoubtedly, shes lonely, really struggled on her own. The kids love her to bits - of course, you don't let your 7 year old dictate but she cries when nanna goes home.
I am also mindful that I'm very cynical these days so maybe assume people are doing wrong when they're not.

The 3 to 4 day thing was a bit clever of here I'll be honest. No doubt. Would I be the same if I was in her position? Maybe.

My wife and I have had a long chat about it. Shes OK with the 3 nights I'd prefer just 2. BUT, she pointed out we did do 3 nights with her about 1/2 weeks anyway because of work etc. She also pointed out that come the school holidays (at the moment we get childcare at school for a few days because wife is a nurse), I'm working from home and I've got a 7 year old to look after when shes in work which is not ideal. We'd manage but I guess MIL can help here.

Also, shes promised it this 3 nights and thats it. NO WAY is she pushing it further because wife says that those 3 days are way enough. We'll see. To be honest, I've decided if MIL pushes it its going to cause relationship problems and I'm going to be calling MIL and being the bad one.

Its hard though. I think its made me realise how years of my Dad has made me so cynical. In the past year, I've thought the worse of someone (unrelated to this) and then its all cleared up and I've been wrong. I'm very wary of this.

[nanotech]

It's tricky really. I've got grandkids, so I do get it, I love the bones of them, but then again you need your family privacy - I've been there too. In my thirties Hubs and I  and three kids lived with my in -laws for a year when my youngest of three was a baby. (long story).

They were lovely, they are great parents non PD, and we had heaps of childcare whenever we wanted it, but still there was no privacy, and that was hard on me, and hard on our marriage too if I'm honest. We survived by moving out.
They were surprised we moved out- they didn't see the problem.


  MIL can help your wife and yourself, plus she sounds like she really needs time with you and her grandkids. Plus your kids will enjoy it too. So it's a balance between that.
If it were me I'd go for the two days.
Does she have any interests outside the family? If she normally has, it might be that she only needs to stay now, and after lockdown is ended she will be okay, and won't need to come as much?

[p123]

It's tricky really. I've got grandkids, so I do get it, I love the bones of them, but then again you need your family privacy - I've been there too. In my thirties Hubs and I  and three kids lived with my in -laws for a year when my youngest of three was a baby. (long story).

They were lovely, they are great parents non PD, and we had heaps of childcare whenever we wanted it, but still there was no privacy, and that was hard on me, and hard on our marriage too if I'm honest. We survived by moving out.
They were surprised we moved out- they didn't see the problem.


  MIL can help your wife and yourself, plus she sounds like she really needs time with you and her grandkids. Plus your kids will enjoy it too. So it's a balance between that.
If it were me I'd go for the two days.
Does she have any interests outside the family? If she normally has, it might be that she only needs to stay now, and after lockdown is ended she will be okay, and won't need to come as much?

Ha ha couldn't think of a worse nightmare than having an inlaw live permanently.

Its tough - to get it back to 2 days now would cause an argument. I prefer 2 too but wife prefers 3 it seems.

Wife has 3 siblings. They've been ok during lockdown but do tend to hide away and leave it all to my wife at times thinking "oh shes going there so shes ok". In reality if they took her the weekend she'd be less inclined to stay with us longer. But thats the way it is.

She used to get a bus into town on her own. Trouble is thats not going to be something shes happy doing for a good while unfortunately because of covid.  She also used to visit her son two evening a week (he lives 100 yards away). For some unfathomable reason, he seems happy that shes visiting us now, but hes yet to re-invite her to come around like she used to. I find this really hard to understand why hes being so mean to her. I know what his response will be "well she didnt ask if she could come around again". Crazy eh?

So she is really depressed at the moment, and we seem to be the only ones who are willing to try and help her out? Its so annoying that siblings are using the situation like this. It does mean we end up picking up the slack. Also, she annoys me because I think "hang on we're the ones who have invited you so we don't deserve these stunts you're pulling".

Hey ho families.

Some balance. I did go and see Dad today. What MIL does pails into comparison to what he pulls or tries to pull. He got to my to do his shopping (didnt like to ask brother all the time - jeez) then moaned because I bought too much and didnt want to spend that much in one go. (I did it  to stop the "I've got no food you'll have to visit". Spent 10 mins trying to tell me how dull I was still planning on my holidays to usa. 20 mins then, basically, completely disregarding everything I said, wanted me to take him out in the car (no) and then laid it on how he hadn't seen me and I could drive up in the week to see him now and every sunday.

Like I said, my MIL maybe did angle things her way and get 3 nights sorted but Dad is just so blatant that pretty much an entire hour is taken up with him trying it on.

Like I said, wife thinks 3 is ok, I'd prefer 2. I think wife might change her mind shortly lol. But for now, I'm a little stuck. So I've got to drop it really.
We'll see how it goes. It might be tough. Hopefully she will be on her best behaviour.

Of course, another disadvantage of covid. Im working from home. Normally when shes here im not home till 6pm, we have food then she goes to bed pretty much at 730 so I dont see a lot of her. Now OK I'm working in the day but lunchtime, and come 5pm shes here.

[p123]

It's tricky really. I've got grandkids, so I do get it, I love the bones of them, but then again you need your family privacy - I've been there too. In my thirties Hubs and I  and three kids lived with my in -laws for a year when my youngest of three was a baby. (long story).

They were lovely, they are great parents non PD, and we had heaps of childcare whenever we wanted it, but still there was no privacy, and that was hard on me, and hard on our marriage too if I'm honest. We survived by moving out.
They were surprised we moved out- they didn't see the problem.


  MIL can help your wife and yourself, plus she sounds like she really needs time with you and her grandkids. Plus your kids will enjoy it too. So it's a balance between that.
If it were me I'd go for the two days.
Does she have any interests outside the family? If she normally has, it might be that she only needs to stay now, and after lockdown is ended she will be okay, and won't need to come as much?

Meant to add I don't think she'd think shes done anything wrong either. Its always struck me that she thinks her being there is the best thing ever and everyone loves her being there. Well the kids do - my 7 year does not help lol!

In the past, wife has been forced into shopping days with her mother which she hates with a passion. She had a tendency to invite wife when it was her day off from work. Last thing wife wanted was to take her mother out. But her mother used to be convinced that she was doing her a  favour because otherwise she'd be stuck at home bored and that the two of them going shopping was the best thing she could ever want to do. (wifes favourite thing on day off is watching tv and sleeping NOT going out).

Part of the problem is my wife is SO easy going. She will agree to anything. Agree first think about it later. The number of times she's done something like this and said "oh I didnt think you'd mind yout get on ok with mum". Yes I do but shes still my MIL and whereas I really dont mind a few days with her I dont want to live with her. I've said in the past, and its true, I'd rather spend a day with MIL than an hour with my own Dad ... You know what I mean?

Wife is awful at putting her foot down with her mother. She had 2 nights in her head but when mother wangled it she said she panicked and didnt know what to say and didn't have the heart to say no afterwards. Especially when she realised how lonely her mum had been.

Wife is so nice but so infuriating.....

[Apparently-wicked]

Hi 123

God I know what you mean.  The of
gift of disordered parenting! The way I work is if I think someone is toying with me I imagine if I would be happy to knowingly try and toy with someone that way. Would you be happy to use this method on someone to get something you want but that you're aware they might not want you to have. That's the bottom line isn't it.

Because again it's a lack of empathy at play here. Your mil wants something and isn't concerned about creating guilt in your wife to get it.

If she is just lonely then there are 1000's of ways she can get her needs met that don't involve making people feel guilty or shamed. If she's creating a sense in your wife that your wife is the only person who can fill that need then that is manipulative.

It comes down to comparison with how you get your needs met.

X😷X