Helping kids manage expectations

[Stillirise]

Hello all. I'm new to this board, but assumed I'd make it here eventually.  I filed for divorce about 6 weeks ago. We are still trying to find our footing, but stbx uPDh finally moved out a couple weeks ago.  I've had a strong feeling from the beginning that kids and custody would be more of a bargaining chip for him, while the money is what he actually cares about. So far, that has played as expected. 

As a temporary custody arrangement when I filed, I asked for primary physical custody, with him getting EOW, and 1 day per week, holidays divided evenly, joint legal custody.  He hasn't pushed too hard against that yet.  It is still way more hands-on parenting time for him than he experienced during the marriage.

Right now, I am trying to remain somewhat flexible and understanding, as it is a very busy time at his work, and he is trying to establish his new household.  He moved to another property we have, an hour away from our family home, where the children and I are for now.  He did not have to move there, his choice.  For his weekly visit this week, we agreed for him to pick the kids up from my home after work, and take them to dinner, rather than shuttle them an hour each way.  He showed up over an later than the time he text DS.  Both children were ready and waiting early.  By the time stbx arrived, DS had finally asked me if he could go ahead and eat at home, and DD was almost asleep.

Stbx played the victim that he couldn't help that work went long, he doesn't like living so far away, etc... I expect this will be a very typical pattern. How to I help the children manage their expectations, while staying upbeat about their time with their dad?  Also, I realize firm boundaries regarding schedules now, is better than trying to establish them later. Any advice on how I reconcile that with trying to be flexible and understanding, especially at the beginning, when the whole family is trying to figure it all out?

I read this board often, and have already found much here quite helpful.  I'm sure you'll be hearing a lot more from me! Thanks in advance!

[Stillirise]

Wanted to clarify a typo...he showed up over an hour later than he said he would.

[pushit]

I'm sorry for your situation, but I think there are some things you can teach your kids here.

I don't think there is anything wrong with telling kids the truth.  "Dad and I agreed that he would pick you up at X:00" and leave it at that.  Keep everything positive.  "I'm sure he'll come", "He told me how much he wants to see you", things like that.  Don't say it in a negative way at all.  If he doesn't come, it's on him.  It's not wrong to let them see that, and it's not your fault he didn't show up.  If it doesn't happen, help the kids through the situation, "maybe tomorrow, I know Dad loves you so much".  My exPDw fails in so many ways with the kids, and I watch her trying to keep the act up but I know the veil will fall at some point.  However, I try to keep the love for their Mom active.

Kids are way smarter than we think.  I personally feel that having their feelings validated is better than having BS coming from two different directions.

[Stillirise]

This week, he didn't bother to show up at all. He called DS, on his scheduled weekday, but never mentioned visiting.  Our arrangement right now is he takes them EOW, and one day per week. I agreed to Thursday, so that on his weekends, they can go Thurs-Sun.  I guess a Thursday evening outing, dinner or whatever he wants to do, is just too much on the weeks they stay with me.  He chose to move 45 min away, but primary works in my city, with a flexible schedule.

I expect him to spring something on me for this weekend. Of course, I want them to go with him for Father's Day.  However, I won't be surprised if he tries to use his skipped weekday to try and leverage more of the weekend.  He will do it in front of the kids, or in a way that paints me as the bad guy. 

I know this is all old hat to the veterans of this board.  You all basically told me in your own posts, that this was coming.  It is just so hard to wrap my mind around how someone could be this way about their own children.

[Penny Lane]

One thing to keep in your back pocket if he tries to spring something on you in front of the kids: "Hm, send me an email and let me think it over."

Obviously that doesn't work if, say, he picks them up and asks them in front of you if they can stay longer that night. But it works in most situations.

If it's an "I need an immediate yes or no," maybe: "I'm not prepared for that request, so I don't think it'll work out this time. In the future, can you give me a little warning by sending me an email beforehand? Then we don't need to discuss it in front of the kids." Keep your boundaries but be productive.

Good luck, it's so frustrating to watch.

[Rose1]

Exbpdh did that all the time. I found consequences the only thing that moderated his behaviour and used it very sparingly.
His main reason (not stated to me but to others) was to make my life as difficult as possible so it wasn't just pressure of work (he didn't work).

I had some good advice. By the time my oldest was in mid teens I would get her to make arrangements. The reason was ex was telling the kids I prevented him from seeing them. The advice was to let the kids deal with scheduling a visit and making plans so when they fell apart they knew why.  It wasn't too easy but it definitely prevented the "you stopped us from having a relationship with dad" a few years later.

His position was it was my job to make sure he had a relationship with the kids. it was my position that everyone is responsible for their own relationships and be needed to work on his.

He rarely had the kids (because that would help me out). And he nearly always messed me around with time especially if I had an appointment. I had plan b for the rare occasions I had to leave the kids with someone. If he turned up late to drop the kids off I gave him some leeway and then wasn't home. It was then his problem to feed and take care of them until I'd finished whatever I was doing. If he was late picking up again i would leave and he would either have to wait or get the kids from wherever we were. He didn't like it and moderated his behaviour surprisingly quickly.

He wasn't working, living with his parents, heaps of free time. i was a single parent in a demanding job. So all his complaints fell in deaf ears.

Did it benefit the kids relationship with their father? Not at all. Was it my responsibility to shelter them from pd? I don't think that would have been helpful.

Kids are now in their 30s. NC for years with their father. His behaviour got worse and it was always about him. Never about the kids. He started to treat them the way he had treated me. He did not build a relationship. But I did and we have a good one. Ex still complains to everyone about how he's been wronged.

And because of my experience with this - try and make it others responsibility, practice constant parental alienation, treat them badly, not keep appointments I never told them how much their father loved them. the cognitive dissonance would have been huge and my credibility in question.
It's up to all of us to live our talk and let our actions prove our words.

[Poison Ivy]

Hero post from a hero member. Thank you, Rose1.

[Stillirise]

 

Thank you Rose1, PL, and pushit.
I definitely agree that he wants me to do the caretaking for his relationship with the children. He always has.  I have tried to be encouraging to the kids, "I'll miss you, but I'm sure you'll have a great time with dad." etc. However,  I have already tried to stop telling them what he thinks or plans, like "dad loves you," or "I'm sure he will call soon."  I do feel it should be his place to say and do those things.

He also bristles at anyone or anything that requires him adhere to a specific time or schedule, especially if I'm involved.  He has always considered his time more important than mine.  This is not new, and I expect this to continue.  I do like the idea of natural consequences of his behavior, regarding his schedule aversion. I'm sure I have enabled that particular behavior more than I even realized over the years.

As for letting the kids make plans with him, I will be all for that in a few years. Now they are 9 & 11, trying to figure all this out, and trying not to upset anyone.  stbx PDh on the other hand, often asks them about what they want to do, for attending family functions, etc. I know it puts them on the spot, and makes them feel like they have to pick a side sometimes. I asked him to please, for now, keep all of those logistical discussions between us.  That probably means he will escalate that behavior.

[Rose1]

Thank you. Hindsight is wonderful. My kids were 6 and 11 when ex walked out.  At first I had this idea the kids should spend time with their father. I wrote a lot of letters suggesting schedules etc.
In hindsight I think he thought I was trying to palm the kids off on him so I could go out and get entertained so he absolutely was not going to have the kids.

Then his life style got in the way. Honestly, oldest d said he treats us like a chick magnet. The only time he wants us around is when he's trying to impress someone.

She was right and quite astute.

A women's legal service advised me not to try and legally force him to spend time with the kids in some parenting time arrangement because I would have to stick with it too even if he was having an off day, drunk or whatever. That was really good advice.

So I made arrangements for after school car, vacation care, occasional work from home etc. This all took a long time. Youngest was in a special school for kids on the autism spectrum So I had fees as well.

Everything he could mess with he did at some point. Including her schooling.

He eventually dropped right out of the girls life after a nasty episode at which oldest went NC.

But really he was only interested in having them a few times a year and complaining to everyone as frequently as possible how I prevented him from having time with the kids.

From the benefit of hindsight, it wasn't easy but having an absent pd was absolutely the best thing that could have happened for the kids. It was bad enough with a week of orientation required after each visit. A pd parent in their lives messes kids up IMO.  They are still dealing with some of the issues caused by it and it was much less frequently than is generally the case.
Of course they also have the abandonment issues but being dumped on grandparents during the very few visits because he had something important to do didn't help either.

I put a lot of effort into making a family instead of trying to foster his relationship and it was the best thing I ever did.

He's still pd, still complaining and holding a grudge, but we don't see it. Only hear occasionally. What a difference to having it there every day.