Apologies

[11JB68]

Occasionally I have a moment of clarity where I make some connection as to how a certain type of interaction feels to me. Often I can't put it into words. Sometimes it seems very clear.
I know that many of you NEVER get an apology AT ALL.
This may be part of what keeps me here... The occasional apology.
But they feel... Empty somehow.
Tonight I think I realized why.
Uocpdh was cranky. Not unusual.
He acted like his usual bossy, demanding, disrespectful self towards me.
I opened a window. He wanted it closed. No discussion. No how can we both be comfortable. Just "the window needs to be closed. Understand?"
Later after I had medium chilled, which I think maybe he is realizing is me "checking out", he came and said he loves me and he's sorry he's grumpy, it's because of xyz.
So, what was missing? How about: I'm sorry, I should never speak to you with that tone. I shouldn't disrespect your needs in service to my own. I shouldn't be bossy and demanding towards you...
No, just excuses.

[notrightinthehead]

You said it:

This may be part of what keeps me here... The occasional apology.

if he was horrible all the time, it would be easier for you to leave. Keeping you confused, doubting your experience, and hopeful are some of the chains.

Btw - what would happen if you said - I understand you want the window closed, dear. I want it open. So it will stay open. Understand!

[11JB68]

NotRight -
That response from me, which would be OUT OF CHARACTER for me anyway, would result in raging/pouting/circular arguments/etc. It would be an all night fight.
In fact, even though I immediately acquiesced, got up and closed the window...it continued longer than it should have. BECAUSE - he then commented that he 'felt hot' (which was COVID-drama - he had been out to the car dealer on Sun and to the dr on Monday and is paranoid about COVID and so thought he might have a fever).... I commented "Probably because it's warm/stuffy/humid in here which is why I opened the window"...(STUPID comment on my part, I guess subconsciously perhaps I was looking to argue the point)-this ended up with ME having to 'take his temperature' (like he's a child) - which was 97.7!!
I do not have the energy any more to fight about things. An all night fight over a window is more than I can take right now.
I ended up getting a fan to put in the doorway to move some air into the room (which, he questioned "why do you need to do that?"....because I NEED fresh air...)
Believe me I overthink these scenarios - what would happen if I did x or said x etc.... What if I said 'fine, then I will go into the other room and read with the window open and you can stay in here and watch tv with the windows closed'....That would also result in rage/circular arguments and pouting.  As long as everything is done his way and to his liking 'all is right with the world'. No one else is allowed to have a preference really. This is a common theme.
Sorry - now I'm just venting. Not in a good place right now with any of this....
Thanks for listening.

[notrightinthehead]

I am sorry 11JB. Seems like you are in a no win situation. Sending you strength.

[11JB68]

Another thing like this tonight.
He got mad at me (for taking over him, or for getting annoyed that he was talking over me?). But he can't just get annoyed and move on it has to be a big discussion, he can't let it go. Even after I apologize he has to be dramatic/poor me/lecturing. Made me add this to my note to myself ("ask h first... Don't talk over h")....
At bedtime he sort of started to apologize, really making excuses, that he really didn't have a great day, didn't feel great etc.... I mc said and I'm sorry I was rude. But again he can't drop it there! His last words on the subject were basically "but there's a lot of stuff that makes me mad and you just have to not do those things". So I went to bed even more upset than I was earlier!

To top that off he then got frustrated with the TV, messed around with it and I think managed to shut off the timer. So now I'm wide awake at 2am trying to fall sleep on the couch instead of in my bed, since the TV is still on!

[SparkStillLit]

Pffft. Not even an aplology. Just more floods of nonsense. And fuel for you to go.
I don't get apologies. Not even these fake ones. Yeah. Good for YOU!! Get on with it!!!

[Wilderhearts]

In fact, even though I immediately acquiesced, got up and closed the window...it continued longer than it should have. BECAUSE - he then commented that he 'felt hot' (which was COVID-drama - he had been out to the car dealer on Sun and to the dr on Monday and is paranoid about COVID and so thought he might have a fever).... I commented "Probably because it's warm/stuffy/humid in here which is why I opened the window"...(STUPID comment on my part, I guess subconsciously perhaps I was looking to argue the point)-

I just burst out laughing so hard I snorted.  That was gold.  I know that saying anything that is easy for a pwPD to DARVO over is a "no no," but sometimes you also just need to exercise your freedom to speak honestly, and make it clear that someone is being ridiculous and intolerable, so cut the BS.

No, that is not a genuine apology.  Genuine apologies seek to recognize and repair harm, not just spare the harm-doer from the discomfort of a guilty conscience by ticking a box

The uOCPD woman I lived with quite literally shouted "IM SORRY" at me, after I put her feet to the fire and drilled into her about how unacceptable her behaviour was.  It was like something straight out of a cop show, when they've been grilling the guy and he shouts, without a shred of remorse, "I did it, ok?!?!?! I did it!!!" just because he can't take the heat anymore.

That's classic OCPD - everything has to be a huge discussion.

[losingmyself]

Open windows...
Apologies.........There are never ever any. I don't think I've heard even a fake one.
Ugh.. my life exactly.
I remember laying in bed one time, with the door and the window closed, and him having smoked like 3 cigarettes. I couldn't stand it. And he wouldn't let me open the window. I was so much in the fog, that I just stayed there, almost crying, miserable. He seemed to get some satisfaction out of it, and he still teases me about it.
Now I would leave the room. I feel sorry for that person I used to be, but also want to kick her in the butt!

[SparkStillLit]

There was an 11jb68 moment last night, I ABSOLUTELY thought of her, and while I was certainly annoyed, I also wanted to laugh. It wasn't a window, but the whole shenanigan was quite eerily similar. There was even covid drama and hot and HAVE to sleep with the door THUS when it's normally the other way and this and that. I guess it was pretty amusing if it weren't so damn annoying.

[11JB68]

More on this saga.
Just after my 2 am post, I shut off my phone and finally started to fall asleep on the couch. H came down then and insisted I return to bed! Ugh. I did, why? Too tired/middle of the night for an argument. Then he falls asleep while I have to start over.
That was Thursday night. Friday I got up at 5:30, went to work. I get a text from ds around 4:30, dad says we need more vodka.
I get home, h is drunk. So here's the weird thing, he is much nicer when drunk. And when I met him in college he drank quite a bit. It's sad to me to realize that the guy I thought I liked back then was the drunk one.
I didn't care that he was drinking really. He doesn't as a rule. But he was just so'nice' and"oh I love you, you're the best" etc. Then apologized that yes he messed with the TV and inadvertently turned off the timer the night before. Oh and didn't apologize though f for making me come back to bed, rather EXPLAINED why it was necessary. Basically he knew he had been a jerk, knew I was upset, somehow woke up to me not there and panicked, thought I was GONE. (But... But... Yet he knew the TV was on at 2 am.....???)
So once again it's about him and his needs. If he would truly acknowledge that he needs HELP, and would go and get help, then I might be more tolerant... But he won't.

[2_exhausted]

Hugs JB-

Reading your last post jarred my memory, ExNbf was a lot nicer when drunk or high...when I met him, he was using pot, a lot....and his job forbids it..he would be terminated...he was kinder when high..I cannot use due to my job...
Apologies? He DARVOd me constantly....reaped at me...my fault....cheated...my fault...he is severely disturbed. His new supply think s she hit the Mega Millions...

[Lauren17]

Explanations as apologies. I rarely really get them anymore, but when I did they went like this.
I'm sorry I called you stupid.
(Pauses)
You made me say that by acting like an idiot.
Ok. Not that blatant, but this was essentially the formula. I usually ended up apologizing to him!!
Now, at the pause, I jump right in with. "Thank you for apologizing" and change  the the subject thus preventing him from shifting the blame.

[tragedy or hope]

11jb68, and all,

Yeah, I am with all of you. If I get an apology, it is because I am being prepped for something else... wait for it. He will want me to fix his computer et al... it's all about getting something from me.

I am reading "Stop Walking on Egg Shells" and I am learning that they  mean to be as deceptive manipulative and unkind as they are. They don't care. It would take a great deal of work to even help them, and there is no guarantee.

I am realizing how evil this obstinate condition really is... they are like 2 year olds always wanting their way. If someone had given me the info I have now about 25 years ago... I would have continued to flee. Even if I did not divorce, I would be in a place by myself. When we are near them we are fodder for their ridiculous words and deeds. I am older now and have no desire to live poor. I am retired.

I too just go with the flow until I have had enough. I don't tell him what I am about to do because that will lead to "discussion." I do it then he comes to ask me what I am doing. I put it back on him as politely as possible. "Oh, you didn't want the window open... okay. I didn't want to make you feel cold so I just took care of myself."

On couch... "oh, I am just not comfortable... having a hard time sleeping, I will be there in a little while. thanks for coming to check on me. the key for me is he is always in the picture when I talk. As long as he feels he has been sufficiently acknowledged he's good for awhile. I make it as much about him as possible, for my own sanity.

Yes, it is changed behavior for me. Questions...."well, maybe I should do some things differently," whatever.  I make stuff up to avoid the chaos. In these relationships we are not victims. We are resistors. Victims are unable to do anything. we can resist the games and still find our space... I think.... ?!? I hope.
Thanks for helping all of us see more clearly. It really does help to hear your experiences.