Should I respond?

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freedom77

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Should I respond?
« on: July 01, 2020, 02:47:42 PM »
We're going into month 5 of NC with my BPD mother who is also a malignant narcissist.

She continues to be relentless, sending scores of daily emails and texts messages. And now YouTube videos she strongly believes I should watch or some she dedicates to my DD (who is still little).

DD and I are preparing to move cross country soon, something that I've been planning since last year.

I have not responded, not once to any of her often viscous, cruel messages, or the weird ones, or the love bombs. Not once.

This woman, and others, have done incredible damage to me and my life. My emotions, my deep feelings have vacillated between intense fiery rage, deep sadness, resentment and all out white hot hatred. DD isn't good with being honest with her feelings (thanks to too much time spent with grandma). She has anger, sadness, and also indifference of late.

Right now, I feel indifference too. This could be because we are both distracted by moving across the country and all the work that goes with that.

Mother's situation is not too great. She no longer has or ever will have my steady and reliable assistance. No more money, transportation, chauffeuring, phone calling, paper filling out, applications completed, mediation, argument settling between her and others namely her neighbors, on and on and on the list of chores can go...you get it.

She IS ON HER OWN. The biggest problem I see for her is that it won't be too long before she can no longer afford her rent on her own. The place she lives is notorious for yearly hikes. Heard tell they just raised it by $35/mo starting this month.

That's a big leap for her tight budget. She's on disability, and has been for 2 decades.

I've also heard she's also been bickering with her next door neighbor, who I strongly suspect is a PD as well. Bad combo.

So...for years, I have been encouraging her to go for public housing. I grew up in public housing, we never once, had a "normal" rental. It was section 8, or subsidized housing, or outright public housing projects. A number of years ago, mother experienced a sudden onset of grandiose belief that she's too good for public housing and demanded to either live with me, or have me be the rental subsidy.

 We've done both. Now we are doing neither. And never will again.

If she doesn't act soon, she risks being out on the streets by this time next year. Because if they do another $35+ hike next summer, she will no longer be able to afford living there.

In our area, the past 10+ years the poverty level and need for subsidized housing has soared. As a kid, we never had to wait long to land a place, but now....looking at a wait list, at least a year if you're lucky, sometimes two. The Section 8 program has been closed for years, they have too many clients, and too many more waiting.

I have no interest in sending mother silent gifts of money. She, and others she allowed, abused me my entire childhood, among other awful things she did to me as an adult, not to mention how I have slowly discovered thru my daughter's rare revelations, that mother was covertly abusing her too and trashing me to her behind my back. My suspicion of this is what led to the current NC status.

Speaking of being an adult, she needs to be one. She parentified me my whole childhood. Had me figuring out all the adult problems. I remember being 10 years old and calling the power company, negotiating not having our electricity shut off, and doing all the grocery shopping with lists I made, and just being held to adult expectations, and then ridicule when I didn't know what to do years before being the age of majority.

I feel like sending her a message, just a brief, cold to the point one. Something such as "Instead of spending your days sending me endless nasty messages, you should be channeling that energy into getting into a public housing apartment so you don't end up on the streets."

I already know this will only create a fire storm of more messages and accusations, but I think she needs to get it thru her head.

It's frustrating because almost a year ago, I drove her, against her will, to talk to a lady who put her on a wait list for a brand new public housing apartment for the aged and disabled. She pouted and acted up the whole time, and acted underwhelmed and uninterested while the lady tried to discuss her application (which I filled out) with her. I had to answer most of the questions while she stared moodily out the window, barely engaging.

This lady discovered a mistake. A wonderful, glorious mistake! Mother's application was not in its proper place in line on the wait list. It should have been closer up to the front of the file drawer. She did tell us that mother would need to stay in contact with her to assure her place in line wouldn't be lost.

That was almost a year ago.

Should I just not worry about it? Just not think about her anymore and what will happen to her housing wise? I really do hate her, and cannot stand the idea of having any further contact with her, but at the same time is this weird dulled sense of obligation still.




« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 02:52:56 PM by freedom77 »

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SunnyMeadow

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Re: Should I respond?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2020, 03:11:02 PM »
I understand your sense of obligation, it runs strong in me too. Your mother doesn't deserve your care or attention. You said you drove her against her will and she acted like a child when you were looking into better, cheaper housing for her. Too bad she wasn't interested then and really, she may not be interested now. She will figure things out, somehow they always do.

You've done what you felt was best to help her and she reacted poorly. I'd let it go and not bother starting up her fire storm of messages. I'd seriously think about fully blocking her from any further contact. You've got to have folders full of cruel and vicious messages. Please don't put yourself though the stress anymore. She isn't worth it.

I'm thrilled you're moving soon. I remember when you originally wrote about it and it seemed like it was taking so long. Make a clean break from her and that town.

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Amadahy

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Re: Should I respond?
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2020, 04:19:56 PM »
Rest easy, Freedom. You deserve it.  My Nmom was similar and when I (largely) bowed out, there were services to help her out.  I hope you can put your energy into planning your big move and put those deep-rooted feelings of obligation to rest. ❤️
Ring the bells that still can ring;
Forget your perfect offering.
There's a crack in everything ~~
That's how the Light gets in!

~~ Leonard Cohen

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blacksheep7

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Re: Should I respond?
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2020, 04:22:23 PM »
I second SunnyMeadow.

She will never change, you will only open the door for her if you answer only for her   get her foot in the door  and Bam, once she's in, too late.....she will start her song and dance again puttin you through misery.  Been there, done that.

She will certainly talk to other people and they will be able to give her advice, she'll have to go from there.

take care and continue to protect yourself from her ;)

I may be the black sheep of the family, but some of the white sheep are not as white as they try to appear.

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GettingOOTF

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Re: Should I respond?
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2020, 05:12:35 PM »
I would not reach out. She won’t take your advice and it will simply amp up the drama.

As you point out she is an adult. These are adult issues she needs to solve by herself.

You have come so so so far. Reaching out will start the cycle again. I know it’s tempting but in my experience walking away is the best option.

Use this time to focus on dd and your future in your new home.

You do not owe your mother anything.

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moglow

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Re: Should I respond?
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2020, 06:21:07 PM »
I don't like the way this comes across, but here goes - you've given and given, while being the recipient of continued abuse. Or alternately used, at her whim and to your detriment. It's not an easy decision to make or stick to but you really do have an obligation to and for yourself first.

Do you want her homeless/struggling? No. Are you responsible for her (or any other adult's) choices? Also no. You can only do what you can do, even knowing the limitations of her budget. Note that - HER budget. Not yours. You can't fix that for her, and throwing money into an ever growing pit only serves to undermine your own future if she's unwilling to entertain obvious possibilities.

We all have choices and have to make concessions we may not entirely care for. Ive done it, I'm sure you have, and it seems your mother refuses to entertain those possibilities. If she's on that wait list and her number comes up, it needs to be clear that's the choice she has based on her current situation. Not ideal, but it's an option. If she refuses she drops off that list ... And it's all on her. You can't fix that for her.

I'm suggesting for your own well being -IF you feel so compelled!- that you reiterate previous discussion on that subject so you can lay it down. And make it clear to her that it's *her* decision to make and you will be laying this issue down, no further discussion or involvement on your part. It's not something that will change just because she chooses to play ostrich. It's possible that option has passed and she knows it (mine would do that then "but what do I doooooo??" as if I have a magic wand). Good information to have in the big picture, but still not a whole heap you can do.

We're here with you. Never easy no matter where you are in it.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 06:38:34 PM by moglow »
“Nothing exposes our true self more than how we treat each other in the home.”  ~ Joseph B. Wirthlin

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WomanInterrupted

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Re: Should I respond?
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2020, 06:21:25 PM »
I agree - your mother doesn't deserve a response.   :ninja:

If you respond now, even just to gently hint she get off her butt and look for a new place to live, the ONLY thing she's going to learn is, "It takes THAT may attempts at contact, email, YouTube Videos  and other means to get Freedom to respond to me, so that's what I'll continue to do - carpet bomb her with contact!"   :aaauuugh:

You mean well, but what it really is is intermittent reinforcement, where your mom doesn't see your contact as helpful, but as a way to get her foot back in the door.   :spooked:

Your mom KNOWS she needs to look for a new place - she just doesn't want to.  She thinks everything will just magically sort itself, you'll come to your senses, rent a truck and move her into your master bedroom, where she can slowly drive you insane.     :thumbdown:

Once that's The Plan, it's nearly impossible to get them to shake it, as I found out with both unBPD Didi and unNPD Ray.  :roll:

She thought we'd put her in a hospital bed in our living room.  I went VLC instead.   :ninja:

He thougtht I'd be his live-in servant and  even screamed, "You're supposed to be taking care of me!"   :blink:

I went VVVVVVVVVLC instead because both presumptions were dead wrong, but I wasn't going to convince either of them.

If your mom thinks you're going to finance her old age and/or move her in - even if you move halfway around the world - nothing is going to disabuse her of that idea  except *silence.*  8-)

It probably won't change her mind, but it's awfully hard to expect money from somebody who won't reply, or a place to live from somebody who left no forwarding address and doesn't want to be found.

Your mother is a grown-ass adult.  If she can't afford to live where she's currently residing, it's up to HER to figure something out - not you.  You *are not responsible* for her situation - she is, and only she can fix it.

She may not like the options presented, but TOO BAD.  She's the one who lived her life and squandered her money - not you.

You owe her nothing - but you owe yourself and DD *everything.*  :)

 :hug:

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GettingOOTF

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Re: Should I respond?
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2020, 07:45:54 PM »
Hhaw recommended The Gift of Fear to me which I read. In it he says that if someone contacts you 60 times and you respond you teach them that 60 tries is the cost of getting a response from you.

Continuing to ignore may not get her to stop but responding 100% will ensure she continues.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 07:48:20 PM by GettingOOTF »

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freedom77

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Re: Should I respond?
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2020, 08:45:47 PM »
Thank you all for sharing your wisdom.

I agree with everyone.

I will not be breaking NC with her.

In my mind I know it will only fan the flames.

She certainly will not listen. She is not a dumb person. She knows she is on her last financial leg there.

I have myself and my DD to worry about and this huge transition we're about to make and all the stressors that will ring in.

No, despite how evil and havoc-wreaking she has and can continue to be...I do not want her homeless in the intense ungodly heat of our region, but she has, and always has had a little something called options. She might have to work for them to come to fruition, but they are there. And she knows it. It was just much, much easier to have me to dump it all on.

At some point, she will come around to the realization that she has to call that lady back and check in where her place in line is now. Or look for other options, which are slim around these parts. The rents are so high. Even a dump, a tiny tin can is financially out of her reach. The studio apartment I helped her get was a bit out of her range as well, but I was helping her out and she on her own just breaks even. They are not subsidized, but are considered senior apartments for those over 60, so they try to keep the rents lower. They keep raising the rent though like I mentioned, so this time next year will be the breaking point.

So as I see it she has another year to latch onto some public housing. She realizes it, I'm sure.

SunnyMeadow you are spot on...they always do figure things out. Always. I recently tried to check her online banking, to see if she had enough money in there, not because I was planning to give her any, just wanted to do a look-see, which I've done a couple times. And guess who is suddenly super computer savvy? She changed all her passwords! For years the waif in her left everything up to me to do, because she was so helpless, couldn't figure it out, doesn't understand "computer stuff"....the same person who tells me in AN EMAIL that she doesn't know how TO DO EMAILS.... :doh:

She managed to get her own cell phone too, when I turned off the one I was paying for. I wasn't about to pay for her to contact me, when I'm going no contact. Yep, she walked or found a ride a few blocks down, and got her own cell phone, and somehow pays for it as well. I know she does, because I tried hooking her up to Safelink, the low income cell phone service here in the States, but she didn't cooperate so lost out on that.

She is managing to get to appointments and get her Rxs, and groceries, and so on and so forth. She had me fooled in the fog for so long. I really didn't believe she was capable. She has all 4 BPD traits, waif, witch, queen, and hermit. But the waif and hermit had me convinced my role in life was keeping her afloat.





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overitall

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Re: Should I respond?
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2020, 12:19:05 AM »
Hi Freedom,

Everyone here has given you really good advice....it's tough to cut someone off, yet for those of us with a PD parent, it comes down to what is best for you and your DD.....I endured WAY too much abuse at the hands of my uBPDm...I found out later that she was also abusing my children in her best passive-aggressive manner....If I knew then, what I know now, I would have cut her off years earlier. 

The funny thing is, when you finally have had enough and are done, they figure it out...they realize you are done...I have been NC almost 10 years now, and when I very, very occasionally have to see my uBPDm, I just say "hi" and keep walking...I know I'm done, and she knows I'm done...When your mom realizes you are done, she most likely will find a substitute and work on them for her needs.

PD's are very manipulative and when they realize that you will no longer accommodate them, they WILL move on..she will find another victim to abuse.  Initially you will most likely feel guilt and some anxiety about her well-being...try to not react and allow those feelings to subside...I assure that you will be amazed at how capable she is after she realizes you won't be taking care of her.

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WomanInterrupted

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Re: Should I respond?
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2020, 02:02:03 AM »
Freedom, Waifs are *astonishingly* resourceful, when left to their own devices!  :roll:

All those things they tell you they "can't" do, like using a computer?  Insert the word, "won't."  It's just easier to have somebody do it FOR them so they can complain about that somebody doing it wrong, making a hash of it, causing problems, or not contributing enough to solve the problem, financially or otherwise.  :dramaqueen:

And Waifs will push and push and push until you say to yourself, "I don't believe you.  Your lips are moving, so you must be lying."   >:(

UnBPD Didi lived to the age of 78, yet could not use a phone book, drive, clean baby oil off the floor, clean her house, cook meals, hard boil an egg, go to the pharmacy, figure out how to do banking or use a computer and FORGET the idea of a cell phone.  :dramaqueen: :bawl:

Yet I'd seen her do all of those things and worse - the woman worked as a bank teller for over 30 years!  Not only could she do banking, but she could use a cell phone and a computer!    :roll:

She just didn't want to - she expected others to do all those menial things FOR her while she lounged in her kitchen chair, upon her dais of pillows, lamenting that NOBODY was cleaning her house or cooking her meals and SOMEBODY should be doing those things.  :dramaqueen:

I knew she meant me, but I'd suggest  Merry Maids or Meals on Wheels, and she'd huff that she didn't want to BOTHER them.  But expecting me to take time out my life to do this stuff only to receive constant criticism, complaints and insults isn't bothering me, right, because I'm an extension of her or something?  :???:

I'd just tell her I didn't know what to tell her then, and she'd slam the phone down in my ear.  It ended that way every time.  I don't know if she figured out I wasn't that damn dense, but she never got the answers she expected.   :ninja:

Your mother *will* figure out everything without you - and she'll get along juuuuuuuuuuuuust fine.  The things she can't do without help, well, they always manage to find somebody to latch on to, and just where they find these poor dupes is a mystery to me, but they do - and there seems to be a never-ending supply.    :abduct:

Focus on you and your DD and your big move - that's the important stuff.   8-)

If you're worried your mom is going to find out your new addy, I'd look into getting a PO box near your new home and having your mail sent there. 

If she sends you mail, you can trash it, but personally, I'd save it to show to a lawyer if you feel the need to  contact one about drawing up a Cease and Desist letter.  :yes:

That's a long way off, but I like letting you know the option is there - a C&D isn't legally binding, but it sure isn't worded that way, and you won't be breaking NC, because the correspondence comes from the lawyer.   :ninja:

Will she stop trying to contact you?

Magic 8 Ball say "outcome nebulous."   :Idunno:

If she doesn't have your addy, she might - or she might redouble her efforts when the holidays roll around again.  You just never can tell how freaky and persistent some people are going to be!  :sharkbait:

My unNPD MIL kept sending cards to DH for 8  years after we went NC.  No holiday was too small, and the cards were always for him - even for our wedding anniversary.   :roll:

At first I was angry and triggered, but then I just found the whole thing laughable - she'd pick a very expensive card and underline all the words a whole bunch of times, like THAT made all the difference.  :upsidedown:

We'd act out her cards like William Shatner, have a laugh and shred them - but then!  In year 9, she had a brain wave and decided to send cards to US and to me, like she figured out THAT could be part of the problem!   :doh:

We still didn't respond but couldn't get over how long it took her to figure out that duh, we're married  - and by the end of year 10, she lost interest in us.  Thank the old gods and the new!   :yahoo:

We didn't go for a C&D letter because they were just cards  - but if you feel threatened in any way, please don't hesitate to take legal action.  :yes:

You and your DD deserve peace, quiet and happiness in these next chapters of your lives.  :)

Your mom will thrive in the chaos of her own making and somehow manage to be fine, until she screws up the plan and has to scramble to come up with a new one, because that's how people like Didi and your mom operate.  They can't *not* cause problems - but those problems are of their own making and their own to figure out.

 :hug:

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guitarman

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Re: Should I respond?
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2020, 08:24:28 AM »
Your mother sounds very much like my uBPD/NPD sister.

One way in which I have learnt to detach myself more from her demanding behaviour is to call her now my abuser. Abusers are all about power and control. Other people are their targets of abuse.

I follow the videos of the author and counselor Kris Godinez. She specialises in Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome and how targets of abuse can cope better. She has a YouTube channel called "We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez".

I have also been watching the videos by Doctor Ramani on YouTube who talks about narcissism. She makes a lot of sense.

You've done all that you can. There comes a time when you calmly say to yourself enough is enough and not feel guilty about not doing any more. I know how that feels.

Kris Godinez says "Ask yourself - If this person were not a member of your family would you have anything more to do with them? If the answer is "No" then act accordingly."

Let the health and social care professionals take over responsibility for your mother's care. She is their responsibility not yours.

My sister is very intelligent and resourceful. She finds a new best friend wherever she goes, whom she then drops and finds another. Someone who listens to all her tales about being a victim of abuse from her family, when she has been the abuser. She is able to get people to do things for her, often for free.

You've done so well to break free and set up your new life. Go live your life and live it well free from any more feelings of fear, obligation and guilt.

Become a lighthouse not a lifeboat.

I would rather spend my time now helping others in the same situation as myself than spend any more of my time helping my sister. Posting here and sharing with others helps me not to relent and get back in contact with her. We help and support each other here through some very difficult times which other people just don't understand. You are not alone. I say to myself now that my sister is just someone that I used to know. If I get back in touch with her I may get love bombed by her then get hoovered back into her life. It would be calm and peaceful for a short period of time then all the abusive behaviour would start all over again. She's not going to change. I've got to accept that. I've had enough. I care but can't cope.

Keep calm. Keep strong. Keep posting.

"Do not let the behaviour of others destroy your inner peace." - Dalai Lama

"You don't have to be a part of it, you can become apart from it." - guitarman

"Be gentle with yourself, you're doing the best you can." - Anon

"If it hurts it isn't love." - Kris Godinez, counsellor and author

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SunnyMeadow

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Re: Should I respond?
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2020, 11:25:03 AM »
I wanted to add to the video recommendation. I like Dr Les Carter on YouTube, he's very calm and speaks with clarity. He has qualities I wish my dad had! I like Kris Godinez too. Very outspoken and a no BS delivery in her videos.

Anyway, I'm watching his video on Narcissists and Karma  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SWurKJIUjY  and have a moment of enlightenment. It pointed out to me that my mom caused the way she is living now. She ran everyone off with her caustic, mean, waify and gossipy nature. Who wants to put up with that? She has no visitors, no one likes her except the cashiers at stores, they *luv* her  :roll:. Sometimes I feel a twinge of sadness that she's all alone but she caused it, this is her karma!

If she wasn't nasty to everyone, she'd have friends and family would want to spend time with her. Instead she has a computer full of truly nasty, book length emails she sends to everyone letting them know how much they hurt her or asking whyyyy they don't speak to her, what did I do??? I didn't do anything wrong  :dramaqueen:

Your mother is the same freedom. She caused the way of life she's living now. No one else is to blame but her. It made me think of the 3 C's.

I didn't cause it
I can't cure it
I can't control it

I can't help my mom, if I tried, she'd keep on doing what she's been doing her whole life. If my mom had put out love, respect and caring to the people in her life, she'd be getting that in return. Your mom doesn't want the help. You went above and beyond trying to help her before and she didn't want any part of it. She's living her karma. What she's been putting out for years, is what she's getting now. Not your problem!



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Andeza

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Re: Should I respond?
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2020, 01:33:32 PM »
You're doing so well, Freedom. I'm glad you decided to maintain your NC, and I have nothing to add to that portion of the discussion.

What I did want to mention, however, is that after you move and you have this tremendous feeling of relief, do not be surprised if both you and your daughter go through a secondary processing stage. We humans are capable of shelving our emotions and feelings until the time is better suited to working through them. Right now you're feeling indifferent, but after you move your brain might say essentially "Okay, survival mode is disengaging, now it's time to deal with all the crap!"

If that happens, it's okay. It's normal. I just don't want it to come at you out of left field and you're sitting there like "What the crap! I already dealt with all this didn't I!? Why now?" It's kinda like aftershocks following an earthquake. Yeah, the earthquake eases the initial pressure of the plates jammed up against each other (NC), but that doesn't mean the actual shift can't cause other smaller pressures in the surrounding area (additional emotional processing).

Be kind to yourself, now and after you move. I've done two cross-country moves at this point in my life and the dreading and preparing are worse than the actual move. Pro tip: if you've got more than one vehicle on the road, get some cheap walkie talkies to break up the monotony. Also, buy a map for your daughter and let her play navigator. It helps to give her "job" to make the time go buy. :bigwink:

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Rose1

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Re: Should I respond?
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2020, 10:06:12 PM »
I guess the expression "the past is the best predictor of the future" is true here. You know what she will do already if you contact. Your d is your main responsibility at the moment and it sounds like some damage has been done there too.

On the other hand, I still have this huge difficulty with understanding a waif tends to find someone to take care of them. I saw it in my ex with disbelief. I see it in my m who has my sister take care of her well. (My sister is not pd, but very caring).

Recently my bil  said to me it feels like if anything happened to them my m would be left to fend for herself. I understand his concerns but it wouldn't be the case. My d and I would ensure that she has good living conditions  ie at 92 she would no longer be able to live in her own home because my ability to support her is nowhere near what she wants and would amount to managing finances from a distance if necessary. She wouldn't be happy but she would have her needs met. If she absolutely refused to cooperate I have no idea what I'd do.

Bil thought that might not be good for her and it probably won't be ideal but it's the best we could do. I'm comfortable with that and my obligation button is quiet sort of 😃. I think if I was in your shoes I would continue to move nc but may be tempted to contact the housing people to see if she was still in the queue for my peace of mind, but as I said I still have huge issues in the obligation area myself so I'm not a reliable source. I guess what I'm trying to say is if its bothering you continually maybe a phone call to the relevant authority might calm your mind.

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freedom77

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Re: Should I respond?
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2020, 10:04:41 AM »
Thank you all for the kindness, support and advice.

It's astounding how alike PD parents, and PDs in general, are!

I did think about calling the housing people, but then it occurred to me, that they might inform mother of such a call...and that would fan the flames as much as calling her outright would.

I'm going to just leave it like it is.

A very wise friend I used to work with once said to me, "If he doesn't care, how much should I care?" She was referring to the owner of the company we worked for. An abusive caller kept calling and yelling at her about the owner not doing something he was supposed to, and he insisted that she, a receptionist, DO something about it. Her words stuck with me.

I have a tendency to be an empath, and take on other people's problems and soak up their situations. But I stop myself from doing that not just with my mother, but with other people as well, by seeking advice on this forum and reminding myself that we should never care more about another person's problems than they themselves care about it. Bad habit I used to have, actually working harder to solve someone's problems than they were. My mother taught me that via parentification.

She's sending me emails whining about her potential of becoming homeless...YET doing NOTHING about it (that I know of) except emailing me up to 10x daily with a litany of complaints about her life, and everyone who's ever done her wrong. If she was ACTUALLY worried about being homeless...she'd be calling that lady up.

SunnyMeadow...it's so funny! Mother also brags about how all the cashiers in *her stores* love her. Most of her emails are novellas, usually filled with vitriol, but also mundane ramblings about how she has to walk to the store since I took away the car I was paying for (the fact she lives RIGHT BEHIND the shopping center and has a dandy little shopping cart I put together for her goes without mention) and what an awful imposition it is...**but a bright spot, the cashiers LOVE her and at least someone is nice to her!!

WomenInterrupted mother does the same with my DD that your MIL did with your husband. It's like I had nothing to do with DD's coming into existence, I don't count nor matter. DD just magically arrived on this Earth to serve as a delight to mother, except as DD got older mother no longer found her so delightful, and began slowly, covertly doling out her N abuse to DD. Think it had to do with DD initiating individuation, and no longer mirroring mother.

Waifs are infuriating in their demands. Mother's own NM was the same. Oscillating between witch and waif, and would take to her bed, and criticize every thing I did for her. I painted the entire interior of the woman's house, and she found fault!! A free, nicely done paint job. Ungrateful, much?

 I'd take her shopping, and she'd complain about everything, all the while I spent my entire day off, a 20-something at the time, lugging her and her wares around town for hours. She'd even make me pack a cooler with ice packs to keep stuff cold while we traversed the town going to no less than 6 stores. This went on for years. And it had to be my ONE day off a week, mind you she did nothing every day, but refused to go anywhere after I got off work, or to maybe break up the routine. Nope.

Waifs are uber demanding. Not so much as a thank you. I forgot my money one time, and I asked her for .50 cents for a Coke from the store vending machine. She said NO! That'll teach you to forget your money. She was so cheap. I could get really upset if I sit and think about the years I wasted on those two. Feel like a fool. N grandmother died 10 years ago, still as ungrateful as ever.

Andeza...I agree. I know a second wave, like a tsunami is coming. Especially with me. I tend to have delayed reactions, I think because I have C-PTSD. It takes time for the numbness to thaw, and then things hit me.

Overitall...yes, I too have come to find out DD was being covertly abused. I regret it immensely. I wish I hadn't allowed mother so much access to DD. But DD was 9 when we went NC, and hopefully can recover.

I'm going to check out the videos too.

Thank you so much everyone for being there for me,