So aware of PDs now that I am NC

[Sidney37]

So now that I am NC with my covert NPDm and enD, I am so aware of boundaries and PDs.  I've realized that I've been collecting PDs my whole life because it seemed normal.  My college boyfriend was a PD and his meltdown after our breakup involved the police, me in the hospital and made the news.  Therapists after explained to me me that he was PD and that I thought it was normal because of my upbringing. 

Now I'm realizing that I don't really have many close friends (PDm convinced me that all of them were out to get me) but the ones that I do are either PD or have PD mothers and bad fleas.  After years of having a neighbor who violated boundaries (pulled flowers out of my yard every spring that she didn't like to look at then cried that she "was just trying to help" when I finally said to stop, moved the pin that marked the boundary between our yards because she thought her yard was larger, shamed me over my parenting because it wasn't the same as hers, and now is intentionally violating our town's COVID rules and crying that she just has to celebrate birthdays, anniversaries, etc. and cries or gets angry if someone questions her), I have realized that her comments that I am "too sensitive" and that she's "just trying to help" are big clues that she is a covert narcissist just like my mother.  She started a smear campaign when I put up a fence that she didn't want because she might not be able to see into my yard and she didn't like how any fences look.

How did you start over and make genuine friends once you went NC and realized that all of your friends were PD or had fleas?  DH thinks I should keep the PD people because at least I have someone to occasionally go out with.  They do invite me to holiday parties once or twice a year.    I disagree.  I'm in a somewhat  small town in what someone here called the "snobberbs" (which I think makes for a higher number of narcissists), so I'm convinced that moving and starting over is the answer. 

[Call Me Cordelia]

That was me who moved from the "snobburbs" into a city far away. Sorry if that term is offensive to anyone, there were lovely people there too. But overall that's how I experienced that place.

I so so understand feeling like you just need to get out and start over. Especially with that next door neighbor yikes! It really isn't enough just to run away though. You have to be moving toward something specific imo. I wanted out for years but needed to do the necessary work on myself to be ready to build a more genuine community with people who wanted the same. But having the goal of getting out to where Inhad die genuine friendship already helped me detach and be more MC and stop making too much effort with people I thought I wouldn't want to keep in touch with after moving.

We have a psycho neighbor in the new place too. But I have support and am much more equipped to deal than two years ago. But I had to grow here too. That's a constant

And MANY of my friends there and here have some kind of narcissism in their families. We get each other. ACONS can make great friends. Sometimes too good!

[Sidney37]

Thanks Cordelia
Yes we have met some really nice people from surrounding towns and kid activities.  They are just really busy with kids and our kids are different ages so they don't really want to hang out with each other.  The specific neighborhood hasn't been so great.   

I understand that I need to be moving toward something rather than running away from something.  I definitely want to run away from the neighbor.  It's amplified with everyone being home constantly and people having been furloughed. 

What kinds of work, if you don't mind me asking, did you feel you needed to do on yourself?  I keep looking for a therapist who is taking new patients and understands narcissistic abuse.  I keep finding therapists, but so far they haven't understood narcissistic abuse at all! I'm just wondering what I could do on my own and what I should ask when I do find someone. 

[illogical]

Hi Sidney37,

Have you read any of Parker J Palmer's books?  I would recommend "A Hidden Wholeness".  Although the book is oriented toward groups building trust and a sense of community, its principles are well worth exploring. 

[Sidney37]

Hi Illogical
I'm not familiar with him or that book.  I'll look for it this week.  Thanks!   Any recommendations on books about reducing anger after coming Out of the FOG?  I need that, too.

[PeanutButter]

I dont know about any books. I hope someone else has.

I found that this article helped me to narrow down exactly what angle I needed to focus on to change the way I reacted to anger.
https://www.ptsd.va.gov/understand/related/anger.asp

Maybe it will help you too.

[Apparently-wicked]

Gosh yes. And in myself too.  For me, it seems that my sense of self is growing alongside all the new knowledge about pds.

I think this sort of balances it out. So on one hand it's like 'omg my parents didn't love me but on the other it's 'that's not my burden to carry, they were unable to love anyone. I can now nurture my inner self in they way I need.'

Luckily I don't consider any of my friends to be narcs but I have one friendship that ended badly some time ago and I think I've been cautious since. I may have only made 2 or 3 friends since but they are good people with loving hearts.

X😷X

[BefuddledClarity]

How did you start over and make genuine friends once you went NC and realized that all of your friends were PD or had fleas? 

Been in the same boat as you in regards to making those types of friends...The few genuine ones I've made didn't last due to moving around quite a bit(due to career changes). I live 1,000+ km away from my hometown, which was a "snobberbs" too.

To answer the question: I've been taking it slow when making friends now. I used to attach really fast with people and seek them out, but now I'm a bit more reserved I suppose. I enjoy the company for what it is and let it flourish on its own instead of forcing it too much like I did in the past.

Currently, I don't have any genuine/close friends, just a few acquaintances that I talk to at work or when we're gaming, although I would love to make meaningful/strong connections again, whether that be friendships online or in real life.

My only real/genuine "friend" is my significant other. Although...I don't want to put the burden on him.

DH thinks I should keep the PD people because at least I have someone to occasionally go out with.  They do invite me to holiday parties once or twice a year. 

Ooof, no thanks! Hanging out with those people is not worth the pain nor headache. My significant other tends to have PD friends too...they take advantage of his generosity/kindness and are troublesome.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Hey Sidney! Been out for a little while, but to answer your question, I really needed to work on my critics, both inner and outer. I simultaneously felt that I wasn't good enough AND that nobody else was going to be a good enough friend. I needed to learn to be okay with nothing being perfect. Still working on it. But I no longer hide in shame after making some faux pas and I no longer avoid people after every little friction.

[Stardust1982]

I know this is an old topic but I can totally empathize with you, Sidney.
I used to attract narcissists everywhere I went-they were among my friends, at work and even landlords (the latter were the worst). Then I took a decision to cut everyone out because I was miserable. I don't agree with your husband, these people make you feel as if there's something wrong with you WHEN you hang out with them. You don't feel loved or understood but as if something is wrong and uncomfortable in the relationship.

There are many lonely people out there who are healthy so why don't we associate ourselves with them instead of PDs? That's my mindset right now.
I have one healthy, non-PD friend with normal, healthy parents but she is abroad. The friend I hang out with now who is close has a lot of fleas from her past PD relationships and conversations with her make me feel misunderstood, it's not a good feeling. There were some warning signs in the beginning. I knew she hung out with my brother who is a PD and she used to admire him..

Whenever you meet someone new pay attention to red flags like oversharing, breaking boundaries, them not taking your no, emotional invalidation, lack of empathy and listening skills, them not asking questions, and so on. You can also realize if someone new is PD if you feel drained, unheard, unappreciated, or just not good after spending time with them. A therapist taught me to check my bodily sensations after spending time with someone I'd suspect of being toxic.

Another therapist said that we, adult children of PDs have a broken relationship picker, meaning that, we do not learn how to pick the right people to hang out with-we may even put ourselves in the face of danger by not saying 'no' to individuals with PD because we learned as children that PD traits are 'safe' and 'normal'. Many behaviors we learned are normal are actually horrifying to healthy people and any healthy individual who is confronted with a PD for the first time doesn't give him or her the time of the day because they're not used to accepting bad behavior from others.

[Sidney37]

I hadn't been here in a few days, but happened in just as you posted this.   

Since I first posted, I have started with a new therapist who specializes in NPD mothers.  Thanks to COVID, she does telehealth.  Before I would have had to drive 1hour + each way to see her every week. 

I, too, made the decision to cut off almost everyone in the town where we are living here in the past few months.  Covid made it easier, because I can't see them anyway.  Many were PDs,  acted like PDs or certainly had fleas from being raised by a PD.    I left social media almost entirely and unfriended every single person from the town where I live whether I liked them or not.  I just left a few high school and college friends to follow so I can see and hear about them and their kids when I occasionally log in.  I resigned as a volunteer at an organization with youth where most every mom involved had serious PD traits and treated their children much the way that my mom treated me.  I had been involved with the organization for years and not one parent asked why I was leaving or thanked me for the work that I had done. 

Thank you for the list of what to look for in a new friendship.  I'm hoping to come out of this quarantine time with the skills to just start over with new people.  I'm sort of thankful for this excuse to avoid everyone, heal and grow in secret.  I'm hoping to emerge after it all a stronger, healthier person.

DH finally got it recently.  First of all, he doesn't understand female friendships, so he doesn't understand some underlying or non-verbal things that women do that are toxic.  He's generally oblivious after being raised by parents with no social skills at all.  Things had to be overt for him to get it.  The lack of any response from anyone when I quit my leadership role in that volunteer organization was his first clue.  He was stunned that no one even asked why.  I've had some health issues, so for all they knew it was because of that.  No one asked or cared. 

Well, he had an eye opening.   A woman who we both thought was a friend, mentioned to me that she knew about the mean bullying and name calling that was being done toward me on a private social media page.   She thought I knew.  I didn't.  She tried to backtrack when she realized I didn't know that I was being mocked pretty badly by moms in town.  I was devastated that people I thought were friends and complete strangers would do this.  He was stunned and angry and finally realized that I was right.  I was better off without the "friends" who I had even if it meant that I was without any friends here in town.  All because I am legitimately high risk for COVID and asked online if a local market  was requiring masks. 

I spent today talking to my therapist about how to say no, leave relationships and stand up for myself.  We were definitely not taught and actually discouraged to do that by our PD parents. 

[orb]

this book was an absolute lifeline for me in the first couple years of NC.

https://www.amazon.com.au/Complex-PTSD-Surviving-RECOVERING-CHILDHOOD-ebook/dp/B00HJBMDXK

i was absolutely sick with rage and sorrow and fear and loathing and humiliation and resentment.
i've done a lot of work, and i continue to do quite a bit of work that i consider to be just maintenance, and i'm much calmer and happier these days.

shahida arabi's writings are good. peg streep is good. shannon thomas is good, beverley engel is good. they all understand the damage an NPDparent causes, and how to work on that.