Constantly ill (he thinks!) - what do you expect me to do?

[nanotech]

I know it's really hard to stop the feelings of resentment.
You're doing well being unreactive to him. At not showing your feelings. Now have a look at being unreactive in your own mind, look at working toward not having those feelings at all.
If you truly drop the rope, you start not to feel reactive to this drama at all.  It's baby steps at first.
In a while, it just doesn't impact upon you at all.
That's when you know you've accepted him for who he is.
I accept that my dad is selfish and narcissistic,  and I no longer look for
empathy or approval from him.
I love him but I don't love any of his behaviour.

If he's rude/ mocking/ pa to me, I either ring off,  or I GENTLY call him out. He will deny of course, then he often rings off, then rings back straight away ( with a lame excuse), then tries false flattery ( love -bombing).

This  used to tempt me back .

It can look like approval at last, but it's a false crown.  I now recognise it for what it is.
It also usually consists of him assuring me that I'm the favourite then he would tell me why.
I call this him handing out his false crowns when and where it suits him. Next week it could be my sister. It's based on the premise that we are seeking his approval. Well, I'm not.

Don't get me wrong. It's still hard. He said,
'Good Girl' to me the other week over a decision I'd made about something. I felt my heart swell.
I heard, and hear this so little.
I was aware however, to keep it in perspective!
If anything, since I've been unreactive to him, I've had the most compliments. I take them with a wry smile and a huge pinch of salt.

I read this sentence on another thread;
"Their pathology has nothing to do with us."

Then there's the three 'c' s
We didn't
cause it, we can't
cure it and we sure as heck can't
control it.

[p123]

I know it's really hard to stop the feelings of resentment.
You're doing well being unreactive to him. At not showing your feelings. Now have a look at being unreactive in your own mind, look at working toward not having those feelings at all.
If you truly drop the rope, you start not to feel reactive to this drama at all.  It's baby steps at first.
In a while, it just doesn't impact upon you at all.
That's when you know you've accepted him for who he is.
I accept that my dad is selfish and narcissistic,  and I no longer look for
empathy or approval from him.
I love him but I don't love any of his behaviour.

If he's rude/ mocking/ pa to me, I either ring off,  or I GENTLY call him out. He will deny of course, then he often rings off, then rings back straight away ( with a lame excuse), then tries false flattery ( love -bombing).

This  used to tempt me back .

It can look like approval at last, but it's a false crown.  I now recognise it for what it is.
It also usually consists of him assuring me that I'm the favourite then he would tell me why.
I call this him handing out his false crowns when and where it suits him. Next week it could be my sister. It's based on the premise that we are seeking his approval. Well, I'm not.

Don't get me wrong. It's still hard. He said,
'Good Girl' to me the other week over a decision I'd made about something. I felt my heart swell.
I heard, and hear this so little.
I was aware however, to keep it in perspective!
If anything, since I've been unreactive to him, I've had the most compliments. I take them with a wry smile and a huge pinch of salt.

I read this sentence on another thread;
"Their pathology has nothing to do with us."

Then there's the three 'c' s
We didn't
cause it, we can't
cure it and we sure as heck can't
control it.

Yeh know what you mean. I really struggle with this....

Its just so incessant with him - he just will not give up. Its like I'm not allowed to be like this and hes going to work it until I damn well give in and fall in line.
The way hes treating me at the moment is just appalling if I'm honest. Given the choice I'd rather not speak to him or see him.

I'm actually hopinf they lock down Rhondda Cynon Taff. You've probably seen the news about the country next door, Caerphilly being locked down.

[nanotech]

I know it's really hard to stop the feelings of resentment.
You're doing well being unreactive to him. At not showing your feelings. Now have a look at being unreactive in your own mind, look at working toward not having those feelings at all.
If you truly drop the rope, you start not to feel reactive to this drama at all.  It's baby steps at first.
In a while, it just doesn't impact upon you at all.
That's when you know you've accepted him for who he is.
I accept that my dad is selfish and narcissistic,  and I no longer look for
empathy or approval from him.
I love him but I don't love any of his behaviour.

If he's rude/ mocking/ pa to me, I either ring off,  or I GENTLY call him out. He will deny of course, then he often rings off, then rings back straight away ( with a lame excuse), then tries false flattery ( love -bombing).

This  used to tempt me back .

It can look like approval at last, but it's a false crown.  I now recognise it for what it is.
It also usually consists of him assuring me that I'm the favourite then he would tell me why.
I call this him handing out his false crowns when and where it suits him. Next week it could be my sister. It's based on the premise that we are seeking his approval. Well, I'm not.

Don't get me wrong. It's still hard. He said,
'Good Girl' to me the other week over a decision I'd made about something. I felt my heart swell.
I heard, and hear this so little.
I was aware however, to keep it in perspective!
If anything, since I've been unreactive to him, I've had the most compliments. I take them with a wry smile and a huge pinch of salt.

I read this sentence on another thread;
"Their pathology has nothing to do with us."

Then there's the three 'c' s
We didn't
cause it, we can't
cure it and we sure as heck can't
control it.

Yeh know what you mean. I really struggle with this....

Its just so incessant with him - he just will not give up. Its like I'm not allowed to be like this and hes going to work it until I damn well give in and fall in line.
The way hes treating me at the moment is just appalling if I'm honest. Given the choice I'd rather not speak to him or see him.

I'm actually hopinf they lock down Rhondda Cynon Taff. You've probably seen the news about the country next door, Caerphilly being locked down.

If you are feeling like this then yes you do have to question whether you want to see him.
Kris Godinez says to ask yourself if you would  be in contact with this person if they were not family. If the answer is no, then she advises to seriously think about not putting yourself through this.
You do have to put your own mental health first.
If my dad was like this I wouldn't be ringing or seeing him. If after a while he got the message,  then maybe I'd resume low contact. 
I can't tell you what to do. But I'm concerned for you.

[WomanInterrupted]

Can I be brutally honest with you?

You are HORRIBLE at negotiating! 

He says birthday, come Saturday.   You were going to come Wednesday, but now  you're coming Wednesday AND Friday as some sort of unwanted compromise.

He wins, you lose - why?  Because he bleats and you fold like a cheap suit. 

He pushes because he knows you - he knows you'll give in and he'll get an *approximation* of what he wants - but that's not going to stop him from trying to get ALL of what he wants, because if he pushes hard enough and long enough, you'll give in - he knows because he installed the button and *you do it on a pretty consistent level.*

I know you hate conflict, but if I had a contract for you to fix my computer for $100, you fixed it and somehow all the copies of the contract got lost, so I say, "Ah-hah!  I'm only paying you $25! - would you knuckle under and say, "Meep.  $25 it is." Or would you *challenge* me about the other $75, prompting me with the conversations we had, the repair you did, the parts and time involved, and the threat of small claims?

I hope you'd challenge me!  (BTW, DH and I don't do that shit.  That's my unNPD MIL's thing.  She calls it "getting ahead."  I call it being dishonest, disrespectful of your time and skills, and yet another one of the reasons I will never break NC.)

But if you just gave in, you'd go broke pretty quickly and the word would get out at what a pushover you are.

Your father KNOWS what a pushover you are!

So, what do you do?

Change your mind with NO explanation.   

"Dad, I can only come Wednesday."  "Dad, I can only come Friday."   

If he starts whining about his birthday or not going out in the car, tell him you can tell he's upset and you'll talk later - and don't speak until the visit.

You have to go into it with the mindset, "This is ALL I can do.  This is my contract with myself and my FOC."

If that's every other Wednesday, so be it.  Your dad will have to adjust.

I know, it would be tempting to sarce, "Hey, why don't you give Brother another fifty bucks and let him take you to the pub, you LIAR!" - but *Don't*.    (I read your other thread - I may have more to contribute later on THAT subject.)

He says, "JUMP!"  (Birthday!  Holiday!  Haven't been out in months!) - your automatic response needs to be NO.

Stop with the JADE - another button he installed.  NO means NO.

Can't do it.  Maybe another time.  Just can't. 

Then, if he starts whining further and you haven't hung up, this is where you get to say, "Look.  I can come (day you chose)  - or not at all.  Keep whining and pestering and you'll make my decision for me."

Then HANG UP.   IF he's still mewling - NO visit.  If he backs down - you decide.

But I'd probably stay home because I hated when Didi tried pulling that shit on me - and made sure it *never* worked by being a hard-ass.

You can do the same thing - go against your nature and just say NO.

[p123]

I know it's really hard to stop the feelings of resentment.
You're doing well being unreactive to him. At not showing your feelings. Now have a look at being unreactive in your own mind, look at working toward not having those feelings at all.
If you truly drop the rope, you start not to feel reactive to this drama at all.  It's baby steps at first.
In a while, it just doesn't impact upon you at all.
That's when you know you've accepted him for who he is.
I accept that my dad is selfish and narcissistic,  and I no longer look for
empathy or approval from him.
I love him but I don't love any of his behaviour.

If he's rude/ mocking/ pa to me, I either ring off,  or I GENTLY call him out. He will deny of course, then he often rings off, then rings back straight away ( with a lame excuse), then tries false flattery ( love -bombing).

This  used to tempt me back .

It can look like approval at last, but it's a false crown.  I now recognise it for what it is.
It also usually consists of him assuring me that I'm the favourite then he would tell me why.
I call this him handing out his false crowns when and where it suits him. Next week it could be my sister. It's based on the premise that we are seeking his approval. Well, I'm not.

Don't get me wrong. It's still hard. He said,
'Good Girl' to me the other week over a decision I'd made about something. I felt my heart swell.
I heard, and hear this so little.
I was aware however, to keep it in perspective!
If anything, since I've been unreactive to him, I've had the most compliments. I take them with a wry smile and a huge pinch of salt.

I read this sentence on another thread;
"Their pathology has nothing to do with us."

Then there's the three 'c' s
We didn't
cause it, we can't
cure it and we sure as heck can't
control it.

Yeh know what you mean. I really struggle with this....

Its just so incessant with him - he just will not give up. Its like I'm not allowed to be like this and hes going to work it until I damn well give in and fall in line.
The way hes treating me at the moment is just appalling if I'm honest. Given the choice I'd rather not speak to him or see him.

I'm actually hopinf they lock down Rhondda Cynon Taff. You've probably seen the news about the country next door, Caerphilly being locked down.

If you are feeling like this then yes you do have to question whether you want to see him.
Kris Godinez says to ask yourself if you would  be in contact with this person if they were not family. If the answer is no, then she advises to seriously think about not putting yourself through this.
You do have to put your own mental health first.
If my dad was like this I wouldn't be ringing or seeing him. If after a while he got the message,  then maybe I'd resume low contact. 
I can't tell you what to do. But I'm concerned for you.

Interesting way to look at it. Took me 1 seconds of though - if he wasn't my Dad would I be in contact - "HELL NO!!!"

[p123]

Can I be brutally honest with you?

You are HORRIBLE at negotiating! 

He says birthday, come Saturday.   You were going to come Wednesday, but now  you're coming Wednesday AND Friday as some sort of unwanted compromise.

He wins, you lose - why?  Because he bleats and you fold like a cheap suit. 

He pushes because he knows you - he knows you'll give in and he'll get an *approximation* of what he wants - but that's not going to stop him from trying to get ALL of what he wants, because if he pushes hard enough and long enough, you'll give in - he knows because he installed the button and *you do it on a pretty consistent level.*

I know you hate conflict, but if I had a contract for you to fix my computer for $100, you fixed it and somehow all the copies of the contract got lost, so I say, "Ah-hah!  I'm only paying you $25! - would you knuckle under and say, "Meep.  $25 it is." Or would you *challenge* me about the other $75, prompting me with the conversations we had, the repair you did, the parts and time involved, and the threat of small claims?

I hope you'd challenge me!  (BTW, DH and I don't do that shit.  That's my unNPD MIL's thing.  She calls it "getting ahead."  I call it being dishonest, disrespectful of your time and skills, and yet another one of the reasons I will never break NC.)

But if you just gave in, you'd go broke pretty quickly and the word would get out at what a pushover you are.

Your father KNOWS what a pushover you are!

So, what do you do?

Change your mind with NO explanation.   

"Dad, I can only come Wednesday."  "Dad, I can only come Friday."   

If he starts whining about his birthday or not going out in the car, tell him you can tell he's upset and you'll talk later - and don't speak until the visit.

You have to go into it with the mindset, "This is ALL I can do.  This is my contract with myself and my FOC."

If that's every other Wednesday, so be it.  Your dad will have to adjust.

I know, it would be tempting to sarce, "Hey, why don't you give Brother another fifty bucks and let him take you to the pub, you LIAR!" - but *Don't*.    (I read your other thread - I may have more to contribute later on THAT subject.)

He says, "JUMP!"  (Birthday!  Holiday!  Haven't been out in months!) - your automatic response needs to be NO.

Stop with the JADE - another button he installed.  NO means NO.

Can't do it.  Maybe another time.  Just can't. 

Then, if he starts whining further and you haven't hung up, this is where you get to say, "Look.  I can come (day you chose)  - or not at all.  Keep whining and pestering and you'll make my decision for me."

Then HANG UP.   IF he's still mewling - NO visit.  If he backs down - you decide.

But I'd probably stay home because I hated when Didi tried pulling that shit on me - and made sure it *never* worked by being a hard-ass.

You can do the same thing - go against your nature and just say NO.

Ha ha - Advice from you ALWAYS welcome!!!! 
Yeh I know. I think you're spot on there..... Hes good at it too.

Funny you should mention my work here. IT contracting is a minefield. You have agents trying to rip you off, clients etc - you have to be on top of it. And I am! Friends in the industry come to me for advice because they know I know how to deal with it.

True story here. I had a one day gig (which is rare). 3 hours drive. Got there - my contact on site was off ill so I sat in reception for an hour. Then the part I was fitting was locked in a cupboard and no key, More delay. Then the people in the office, had little idea what was supposed to be done. It was a disaster. I did my best but come 5pm it wasn't all done. Client refused to pay agent who refused to pay me. Sod that. Took them to court. The phoned me, threatened me with "costs". I stuck to it (the court was in my home town so it was easy for me). Went to court the agent didnt show (didnt think they would) and I got awarded the full amount plus costs plus interest.

Yeh I dont do this with my Dad, do I?

But you're right he does push for the full amount. Ideally he wants wednesday and the weekend.
To be honest, I should have got a plan in place before I rang him.

I'm arranging to finish work a little early on Friday. I'll offer to take him out to a restaurant. He'll probably say no but it'll put an end to his moaning for a few weeks "I never go out".
Im busy now Wednesday anyway. Same the weekend. Not moving from this.

[Adrianna]

I think being honest that no, this isn't someone you would spend time with if he was not related, is a huge sign that you are putting your own well-being on hold to please someone who quite frankly will never be pleased.

He angers you, frustrates you, has no concern for you, your family or your job. He is all about himself and the resentment you're feeling is normal but you have to use it to get to the next level.

That next level being deciding for YOU how much contact you can handle with him. See him every two weeks, call him once or twice a week, scale back because I'm telling you, there's no prize at the end of this. They are never pleased. You won't get appreciation. There's no grateful father in his deathbed thanking you. He will bring you down to where you are nothing but a simmering, resentful, unhappy person, whose anger affects your other relationships as well. Your family deserves some peace too. Your father has taken up far too much of your kindness already.

So why do it more than you can handle? Guilt? You've put up with more than any adult child should. Your father is an adult and needs to deal with the consequences of his own actions.

I really do still suggest  considering therapy to sort out what's stopping you from  putting your own well-being above that of your father. There a block there, and you need to figure out what it is.

This anger stage is normal part of he process and you are on the verge of a breakthrough, but stay there too long without taking action and it will take a toll on you.

[p123]

I think being honest that no, this isn't someone you would spend time with if he was not related, is a huge sign that you are putting your own well-being on hold to please someone who quite frankly will never be pleased.

He angers you, frustrates you, has no concern for you, your family or your job. He is all about himself and the resentment you're feeling is normal but you have to use it to get to the next level.

That next level being deciding for YOU how much contact you can handle with him. See him every two weeks, call him once or twice a week, scale back because I'm telling you, there's no prize at the end of this. They are never pleased. You won't get appreciation. There's no grateful father in his deathbed thanking you. He will bring you down to where you are nothing but a simmering, resentful, unhappy person, whose anger affects your other relationships as well. Your family deserves some peace too. Your father has taken up far too much of your kindness already.

So why do it more than you can handle? Guilt? You've put up with more than any adult child should. Your father is an adult and needs to deal with the consequences of his own actions.

I really do still suggest  considering therapy to sort out what's stopping you from  putting your own well-being above that of your father. There a block there, and you need to figure out what it is.

This anger stage is normal part of he process and you are on the verge of a breakthrough, but stay there too long without taking action and it will take a toll on you.

Thanks for making me think like that - its an eyeopener.....

If we weren't related I wouldn't go within a mile of him!

My problems is not so much that I care so much about him these days. I can honestly say its fading past to be honest. And I'm so angry, But I still can't deal with conflict at all.

Its coming to a head though. I can see it....

[Adrianna]

It is coming to a head and something's got to change. You can't continue this way indefinitely and stay emotionally healthy.

Given that your dislike for conflict seems to be an issue, that might be something to dig deep into figuring out. Why do you avoid it? Do you fear what people will think of you? Does it give you anxiety? Do you fear your own anger and what you might say to him if you two really had a big argument? Do you think you don't have a right to express what you want and lack the confidence to fight for your opinions? What are you afraid will happen if there's a conflict?

Thing is, technically you already have conflict right now with him and your brother. It's happening. The issue seems to be setting those boundaries firmly and taking taking head on the crap he will dish out, and yes he will, because abusers don't like boundaries. He will whine and up his antics. They all do when they feel control slipping away. Let him. We've all been where you are.

I would spend some time thinking about the conflict issue and how it's holding you back. There are reasons under it (maybe going back to childhood), and once you get to those, you can unravel it and boundaries will be easier.

One point though I think avoidance of conflict too isn't uncommon for victims of emotional abuse. We tire of the drama and don't want to stir up more by speaking up, but that's part of the abuse too. We feel that our voices don't matter so why bother causing a ruckus but they do matter and sometimes that ruckus is exactly what you need to break free from their grip.

[illogical]

Hi p123,

I think you are spot-on in your assessment that things are coming to a head.  A couple of observations/comments--

*The big red flag here for me is that your dad's birthday is coming up.  That is HIS BIG DAY and he feels, I am sure, oh so entitled to the royal treatment.  And like a dog with a bone, he's not going to let go of this. 

*I would be prepared for him "upping the ante" as far as chaos manufacturing to get your attention.  Expect that he may try to spoil your weekend plans-- even if you take him out on Friday-- by an unexpected hospital visit.  No, I don't have a crystal ball, but I think it's a real possibility.  I would be prepared for what you are going to do if you receive a call.

*Maybe try to look at the long term here.  The b-day weekend is an obstacle-- it may even turn into a crisis.  But after all you have endured with your dad, the long way you have come, I have no doubt you can handle whatever comes your way.  Unfortunately, it is highly likely that after this "crisis" has passed, there will be another and another and so forth, as long as you engage with him.

*Limiting contact will serve to mitigate your stress.  Also, I feel a plan will help you gain confidence, rather than just "winging it" around him.  LIsten to your gut.  If you feel there is a conflict coming, there probably is.  Okay, so be prepared.  When you feel your anger rising, STOP.  Make a hasty excuse and leave.  Don't hang around and try to defend yourself when he is escalating things.  I can tell you from experience that leaving is the way to go here.  Engaging with him in an argument is a futile endeavour.  He will likely "win" the battle.  Dropping the rope is the only way to keep control of the situation.  Because that's what this is about-- control.

Take care!

[nanotech]

Adrianna wrote

"That next level being deciding for YOU how much contact you can handle with him. See him every two weeks, call him once or twice a week, scale back because I'm telling you, there's no prize at the end of this. They are never pleased. You won't get appreciation. There's no grateful father in his deathbed thanking you. He will bring you down to where you are nothing but a simmering, resentful, unhappy person, whose anger affects your other relationships as well. Your family deserves some peace too. Your father has taken up far too much of your kindness already."

Exactly   

[p123]

Adrianna wrote

"That next level being deciding for YOU how much contact you can handle with him. See him every two weeks, call him once or twice a week, scale back because I'm telling you, there's no prize at the end of this. They are never pleased. You won't get appreciation. There's no grateful father in his deathbed thanking you. He will bring you down to where you are nothing but a simmering, resentful, unhappy person, whose anger affects your other relationships as well. Your family deserves some peace too. Your father has taken up far too much of your kindness already."

Exactly   

Yes it does affect my other relationships....

[p123]

Hi p123,

I think you are spot-on in your assessment that things are coming to a head.  A couple of observations/comments--

*The big red flag here for me is that your dad's birthday is coming up.  That is HIS BIG DAY and he feels, I am sure, oh so entitled to the royal treatment.  And like a dog with a bone, he's not going to let go of this. 

*I would be prepared for him "upping the ante" as far as chaos manufacturing to get your attention.  Expect that he may try to spoil your weekend plans-- even if you take him out on Friday-- by an unexpected hospital visit.  No, I don't have a crystal ball, but I think it's a real possibility.  I would be prepared for what you are going to do if you receive a call.

*Maybe try to look at the long term here.  The b-day weekend is an obstacle-- it may even turn into a crisis.  But after all you have endured with your dad, the long way you have come, I have no doubt you can handle whatever comes your way.  Unfortunately, it is highly likely that after this "crisis" has passed, there will be another and another and so forth, as long as you engage with him.

*Limiting contact will serve to mitigate your stress.  Also, I feel a plan will help you gain confidence, rather than just "winging it" around him.  LIsten to your gut.  If you feel there is a conflict coming, there probably is.  Okay, so be prepared.  When you feel your anger rising, STOP.  Make a hasty excuse and leave.  Don't hang around and try to defend yourself when he is escalating things.  I can tell you from experience that leaving is the way to go here.  Engaging with him in an argument is a futile endeavour.  He will likely "win" the battle.  Dropping the rope is the only way to keep control of the situation.  Because that's what this is about-- control.

Take care!

Yes I did well last night.... No I can't visit Saturday or Sunday.
I can visit Friday night. You don't want to go out to eat? OK up to you.

Hes obsessed with his health at the moment. 20 mins AGAIN discussing his hayfever, antibitoics etc. Anyone would think hes just been diagnosed with terminal cancer....

[nanotech]

I've cut and pasted this from Spring Butterfly from a thread about emotionally unavailable mothers.
Think it can apply to fathers too, particularly  in one parent families?

" I decided to pick up and reread Will I Ever Be Good Enough again with new eyes and having come further along in my healing. She makes a point of saying this is not about blame and not about being a victim.

This regarding emotionally unavailable mothers really head home. That feeling of never being enough just keeps lingering...

Quote
She tries her hardest to make a genuine connection with Mom, but fails, and thinks that the problem of rarely being able to please her mother lies within herself. This teaches the daughter that she is unworthy of love. The daughter's notion of mother-daughter love is warped; she feels she must "earn" a close connection by seeing to Mom's needs and constantly doing what it takes to please her. Clearly, this isn't the same as feeling loved. Daughters of narcissistic mothers sense that their picture of love is distorted, but they don't know what the real picture would look like. This early, learned equation of love—pleasing another with no return for herself—has far-reaching, negative effects

https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=29251.0

I think this could  be why you find it so hard to stop trying to please your dad?  This concept of 'earning love' was and still is a feature of my family.

[nanotech]

I hope this is okay and within rules? Spring Butterfly suggests these as her cliff notes from  the book;

'Will I ever be good enough'

The book outlines the following for determining if contact as possible after determining if someone is "Untreatable" or "Toxic" and if contact is even desired.
These are my cliff notes:

Take a temporary separation - time out with emergency contact only. Take as long as you need to fully recover and heal before deciding level of contact.

The Civil Connection after recovery complete looks like:
- Lower contact
- Zero expectations for emotional connection
- Accept they are incapable
- Fully separate
- Strong boundaries

Boundaries
- Clearly stating what will and will not do
- Where you stand
- Draw line not allowed to cross
- Set limits
- How others feel doesn't matter
- You are already emotionally abandoned - nothing to lose

Real Work Within
Contact only possible if own recovery is at:
- Less reactive to projections
- Can set clear boundaries
- Less able to be triggered
- Accepted limitations
- Zero expectations

[Adrianna]

Great info Nano.

I know the emotionally unavailable parent issue has huge consequences. In my case it was both parents, for different reasons. I knew my father was cold and indifferent, but I tried real hard as a kid to earn my mother's love and attention. I blocked out a lot of my childhood but found some handmade cards I gave her in a box last year. Little Adrianna professed her love to her mom pretty frequently apparently, based on those cards written in crayon, hoping for some back. Her last week alive she did tell me she loved me, as I think she knew she didn't have long, and although it was nice to hear (and I said it back),the damage had been done and we had really no relationship by that point, as honestly she had no ability or interest in connecting with me or anyone else. Sadly my mother just wasn't up for the Mothering job, was shut down due to her own mental issues, and with my unpd father and unpd/BPD grandmother, I see now that I felt unlovable, unwanted and quite frankly defective. Of course I finally see it wasn't personal, but what a journey to get here it's been. I felt my only worth was what I could do for others, as I had no sense of self apart from that.

[nanotech]

Great info Nano.

I know the emotionally unavailable parent issue has huge consequences. In my case it was both parents, for different reasons. I knew my father was cold and indifferent, but I tried real hard as a kid to earn my mother's love and attention. I blocked out a lot of my childhood but found some handmade cards I gave her in a box last year. Little Adrianna professed her love to her mom pretty frequently apparently, based on those cards written in crayon, hoping for some back. Her last week alive she did tell me she loved me, as I think she knew she didn't have long, and although it was nice to hear (and I said it back),the damage had been done and we had really no relationship by that point, as honestly she had no ability or interest in connecting with me or anyone else. Sadly my mother just wasn't up for the Mothering job, was shut down due to her own mental issues, and with my unpd father and unpd/BPD grandmother, I see now that I felt unlovable, unwanted and quite frankly defective. Of course I finally see it wasn't personal, but what a journey to get here it's been. I felt my only worth was what I could do for others, as I had no sense of self apart from that.

I'm sending you lots of love Adrianna. Clearly you were a wonderful daughter and a daughter any mum should be very very proud of.
P123 you are a brilliant son. You are well educated, married with lovely kids, a responsible father and husband, and a man who works hard for his family. Anyone would want these qualities in a son.
Being a good son isn't throwing all of your responsibilities to the wind and becoming your dad's personal servant.
Your dad had this all the wrong way round!
Oh, hang on! -could it be that it really irks him that you do do much better in life than he ever did? 
Narcissistic parents may pressure their kids to do well and so make them look good, but they don't like them to do TOO well. If they  feel outshone by their child, then that isn't allowed.

Unless of course, they benefit from it greatly. The  emphasis  on the car trips- I think he feels it's only ok for you to drive ( when he didn't) if he gets the benefit of that driving himself. AKA turning you into his chauffeur!
It becomes a service for him, not a privilege for you. This may be psychobabble but it could possibly be true!

It reminds me of a few years back when we finally got our dream home after years of renting and moving about; we were settled and secure.
Nbro and Ndad immediately thought ,

"well that good luck just can't  be for the benefit of NANO! "'We own her, and everything she owns, so now she's got a new house, Dad can go and live in it with her! 

From dad's point of view, if would have meant free servants and a free or very low  cost of living . From brothers POV, he could sell dad's bungalow and get his inheritance. They tried for a year. Direct and indirect.  Not happening.
They don't see you as being settled with your own family, grown and separate. They still see you as a child. They believe that what we achieve is theirs to retrieve.

[p123]

Great info Nano.

I know the emotionally unavailable parent issue has huge consequences. In my case it was both parents, for different reasons. I knew my father was cold and indifferent, but I tried real hard as a kid to earn my mother's love and attention. I blocked out a lot of my childhood but found some handmade cards I gave her in a box last year. Little Adrianna professed her love to her mom pretty frequently apparently, based on those cards written in crayon, hoping for some back. Her last week alive she did tell me she loved me, as I think she knew she didn't have long, and although it was nice to hear (and I said it back),the damage had been done and we had really no relationship by that point, as honestly she had no ability or interest in connecting with me or anyone else. Sadly my mother just wasn't up for the Mothering job, was shut down due to her own mental issues, and with my unpd father and unpd/BPD grandmother, I see now that I felt unlovable, unwanted and quite frankly defective. Of course I finally see it wasn't personal, but what a journey to get here it's been. I felt my only worth was what I could do for others, as I had no sense of self apart from that.

I'm sending you lots of love Adrianna. Clearly you were a wonderful daughter and a daughter any mum should be very very proud of.
P123 you are a brilliant son. You are well educated, married with lovely kids, a responsible father and husband, and a man who works hard for his family. Anyone would want these qualities in a son.
Being a good son isn't throwing all of your responsibilities to the wind and becoming your dad's personal servant.
Your dad had this all the wrong way round!
Oh, hang on! -could it be that it really irks him that you do do much better in life than he ever did? 
Narcissistic parents may pressure their kids to do well and so make them look good, but they don't like them to do TOO well. If they  feel outshone by their child, then that isn't allowed.

Unless of course, they benefit from it greatly. The  emphasis  on the car trips- I think he feels it's only ok for you to drive ( when he didn't) if he gets the benefit of that driving himself. AKA turning you into his chauffeur!
It becomes a service for him, not a privilege for you. This may be psychobabble but it could possibly be true!

It reminds me of a few years back when we finally got our dream home after years of renting and moving about; we were settled and secure.
Nbro and Ndad immediately thought ,

"well that good luck just can't  be for the benefit of NANO! "'We own her, and everything she owns, so now she's got a new house, Dad can go and live in it with her! 

From dad's point of view, if would have meant free servants and a free or very low  cost of living . From brothers POV, he could sell dad's bungalow and get his inheritance. They tried for a year. Direct and indirect.  Not happening.
They don't see you as being settled with your own family, grown and separate. They still see you as a child. They believe that what we achieve is theirs to retrieve.

Nano - thats so kind of you to say that....

Know what you mean. Dad seems to think that I should agree with him on everything, run my wife how he thinks it should be run, do whatever he says. In reality, we live in 2 different worlds to be honest.