My uBPDm helps an elderly person in loss of autonomy

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Maxtrem

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My uBPDm helps an elderly person in loss of autonomy
« on: July 07, 2020, 06:06:02 PM »
My uBPDm has always been deeply egocentric; she demands that everything revolves around her at all times and she is also a master in the art of manipulation. She does not seem to have the ability to understand that the world cannot and will never revolve around her. For as long as I can remember, I have always refused her help and I have always given her gifts (Holiday/Christmas) of a higher monetary value than she gave me so that I would never be indebted to her because it created expectations. When my uBPDm gives she expects to get something back. For example, she mentions again the last time she helped me in 2016 to tell me that she gave me so much! 

Yet since the Covid, she has been helping an elderly person. She is a very old woman with health problems, they have become friends and my mother sometimes gives her gifts; often food and sometimes clothing. This is a good thing, since this person felt alone during the pandemic, since her daughter died a long time ago and her grandson is extremely ill. Yet it is obvious that this woman will never be useful to my mother. She has arthritis and difficulty walking, so she will never be able to help my mother with tasks. Also, she will never be able to give my mother a gift or even part of one. In my country, elderly people on low incomes who are losing their independence go to residences where all their care and housing is paid for by the state, but the state takes their pensions to pay for these residences, so they don't have a money.     

My uBPDm has always used/manipulated people, me first and yet she is helping this elderly woman. This woman who obviously can never be of any use to her. Do any of you understand this?

It's not because she's changed. Not long ago she refused to talk to my father for weeks (they haven't been together for 25 years, but still talk to each other) because he refused to wait in line for an hour for doughnuts. She talked to him again when she needed him to do manual work at home (I couldn't do it, because I've had chronic muscle pain for over a year).


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freedom77

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Re: My uBPDm helps an elderly person in loss of autonomy
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2020, 06:52:50 PM »
Hi Maxtrem...
It is a puzzler indeed when PDs seemingly do something for others that externally appears altruistic. You cannot be certain that this woman has NOTHING to offer your mum. As a person who has worked with the elderly for decades...you'd be shocked at how many of them are sitting on a pot of gold in the form of CDs, vacant lots, savings, obscure assets...and do not be fooled by outward appearances.

More than a few times, I have encountered professionally, and in personal circumstances, elder folks who looked the part of pauper, but were indeed quite the contrary. A country gent who wore overalls with old red suspenders and still drove the same car for over 20 years, very VERY humble had tons of assets and dough stashed away.

There are times my own BPD/N mother would appear to be "doing kind deeds" for someone less capable than she, but what she was getting out of it was attention, recognition, praise...a rich source of N supply.

I would watch this episode from afar...time will reveal what really is in it for your mother.

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Psuedonym

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Re: My uBPDm helps an elderly person in loss of autonomy
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2020, 06:58:53 PM »
Hi Maxtrem,

If I were to guess I would say narcissistic supply. Having nothing to offer depends on what one values, and NPDs value nothing more supply. I don't know this elderly lady, but based on what you've said she has nobody else, and probably can't say enough about what a Godsend/angel/wonderful person your mother is. They lap that up, as well as the experience of being in control of a situation. It's validation of what they want to believe about themselves, despite evidence to the contrary.

Did you say a while ago that your mother had been to a therapist and then told you the therapist said she definitely didn't have a PD? (eyeroll) If I'm remembering that right, your mother may have actually heard some truths from the therapist that were unpleasant for her to hear. This could also be a way of 'proving' to herself what a wonderful person it is. Whatever the case, I think you're 100% correct to be suspicious. Hopefully at least the elderly lady is getting something out of it!

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Psuedonym

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Re: My uBPDm helps an elderly person in loss of autonomy
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2020, 07:04:08 PM »
...also, sorry just thought of this, she may be trying to lay a guilt trip on you in a roundabout way. I'm sure you've heard of all this generosity from your mother herself. She may be making a point of her own 'selfless' efforts to help an elderly woman in order to try to guilt you into doing more for her. The possibilities are unfortunately many here!

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Maxtrem

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Re: My uBPDm helps an elderly person in loss of autonomy
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2020, 02:29:39 PM »
Thank you very much for your answers! @Freedom77, in my country if an elderly person goes to this type of residence, it's really because they can't afford to go elsewhere and the state takes care of paying for their food, care and housing. But when it comes to narc supply, @Freedom77 and @Pseudonym you are genuis! I've never read about it and it's very possible that it motivates my uBPDm to help this woman who is losing her autonomy.

After reading your comments, I remembered that once, my mother asked me if I could bring this woman her groceries (there were a lot of items and my mother doesn't have a car) and it was a pleasure for me to do this service, especially during the covid period. After I brought it to her, this woman was really happy and said: Thank you, you're an angel, just like your mother! It was weird to hear that and I wasn't even able to answer anything! My uBPDm has always created a character of a victim who gives everything to others and never gets anything in return. Helping this woman can therefore be a great source of narc. supply.

@Pseudonym, yes, after having attempted suicide (I'm not sure that's true; she would have taken a large quantity of morphine pills that she would have vomited 4 hours later and would have no after-effects. I spoke to a doctor who told me that in order to have no after-effects, she would have had to vomit them soon after), the state gave her 10 free sessions with a therapist. The therapist would have diagnosed her with complex post-traumatic shock (which may be true, as this would be a cause of BPD), but no PD. But PD is difficult to diagnose, especially if the patient hides information and in only 10 sessions... It was a psychologist she saw in the hospital after her suicide attempt who would have told her to stop expecting so much from me, that I was probably dysfunctional, and she even asked her if I was violent, if I had a criminal record, etc. I think this psychologist was brilliant and understood something quickly.   

@Pseudonym,
...also, sorry just thought of this, she may be trying to lay a guilt trip on you in a roundabout way. I'm sure you've heard of all this generosity from your mother herself. She may be making a point of her own 'selfless' efforts to help an elderly woman in order to try to guilt you into doing more for her. The possibilities are unfortunately many here!
I hadn't thought about it, my uBPDm doesn't help this woman for this reason, but it's obvious that she will one day use it to make me a guilt trip! 

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Maxtrem

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Re: My uBPDm helps an elderly person in loss of autonomy
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2020, 12:00:40 PM »
I got my answer this elderly person seems to have BPD traits. She manipulates my mother for attention.yesterday my mother was not home, she called her 6 times and left messages telling her that she felt abandoned and that she took 2 sleeping pills to commit suicide because my mother had not returned her many messages. What surprises me is that my mother is unable to recognize that this is manipulation, yet my mother has done and said similar things before. Besides it's nonsense, no one dies from taking 2 sleeping pills.   

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Psuedonym

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Re: My uBPDm helps an elderly person in loss of autonomy
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2020, 04:05:06 PM »
Hey Maxtrem,

Very curious here: how do you know about this incident? Did your mother relate it to you? I ask because mine would take things she had done and attribute them to other people (namely me). It's either a karmic coincidence (that your mother will never appreciate) or a story that might not be 100% accurate.

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Maxtrem

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Re: My uBPDm helps an elderly person in loss of autonomy
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2020, 10:55:54 AM »
Yes, my mother told me, but I think it's true. She had already told me that she felt obligated to go and play cards with her, otherwise she would cry on the phone. Maybe it's a coincidence of karma. I don't think it's projection even though uBPDm has done it often, because she and this older person don't seem to have the same manipulative techniques at all.     

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SparkStillLit

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Re: My uBPDm helps an elderly person in loss of autonomy
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2020, 11:12:55 AM »
*chiming in out of nowhere*
Thhbbt, I'd still be suspicious of this little story. MIL who is Narc Mistress of Manipulation has told stories juuuuuust like this one. I mean, could have read this in a book, it's so similar, except they were neighbors. Come to find out, MIL's "story" aside, that's not how it went at ALL. It started out nice, MIL so kind and helpful and sweet, but she's the one who turned on the neighbor and got sour and a bit ugly. And THAT, friends, is the WAY more believable and true to form story. There were never any zillion calls nor attempts on lives. There was a dust up orchestrated by MIL.

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athene1399

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Re: My uBPDm helps an elderly person in loss of autonomy
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2020, 10:05:44 AM »
*also chiming in out of nowhere*

I know I don't fully trust any story from M because there's always a sight spin on it or an exaggeration. SO's BPDxw is the same way. She's always the victim. But IMO both of them believe the stories they tell. I think sometimes they can't handle the truth so would rather believe the lie (however, I am speculating based on observed behavior. I cannot actually know what is going on in their heads).

Aside from PDs being difficult to diagnose, I've heard that they often aren't diagnosed as insurance companies (at least in my state/country not sure who's rule it is) will not reimburse the provider for PD treatment. In order for it to be a billable treatment, you need to be treating for something else, like PTSD or depression.


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Psuedonym

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Re: My uBPDm helps an elderly person in loss of autonomy
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2020, 02:09:34 PM »
because she and this older person don't seem to have the same manipulative techniques at all.    

Didn't your mother also threaten to kill herself by taking pills because she wasn't getting enough attention but the whole thing seemed pretty fishy? I'm genuinely asking here because I thought you said that but am often confused! :)

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nanotech

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Re: My uBPDm helps an elderly person in loss of autonomy
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2020, 08:12:29 AM »
If I were you I would take a step back from assisting this relationship in any way. I think she might be ‘training’ you for when she herself becomes older and frailer.
I’ve also read (Toxic Parents) that NPDs often like to have one or two people that they fawn over and do lots for. I think it feeds their feelings of superiority. Then they will look for substitutes.
My dad in his late 80s himself, would take a 90 +’year old lady out to lunch ‘as a kindness‘ because she was old and ‘didn’t get out much.’  The  way he talked about this act- he put himself in the role of  a much younger man than he was.

My parents were both completely controlled by my late grandmother ( dad’s  mum) who lived with them for a long time. She would have them running around after her. She verbally abused them, often. She refused often, to eat my mums food because the meat ‘wasn’t good enough’. My dad had to run to the butcher and then mum had to cook the meat separately. They did all of this for her, calling it their duty, their ‘cross to bear’.
They  didn’t have their grandkids to stay over or ever did much with any of them .... but I digress.
Sigh.
I mean that they will serve someone if they get the reward of feeling approved of. Public approval as well is a huge incentive.  These narcissists at one time or other have sought approval, and that still burns inside them. They are still like children in this way.
That’s why the target for fawning seems to be older, not younger people.
But it can be much more complicated than that.

My mum also did it for younger people, if their problems reminded her of the  problems her own mum and she had.
These people were always PDs.
Mum’s (and her own mother’s issues) stemmed from abandonment by her father.
Mum  would do more for these ‘ abandoned’  ‘chosen people’ at the expense of her own children and grandchildren, whom she deemed not abandoned, and therefore luckier than her.
Even when these PDs turned against her, which they did, spectacularly, she would make excuses for them.  These chosen folk could do anything. Grandma could do anything. She was only removed from their home when she looked as if she was going to hit mum one time. But it was what she said that really sealed her fate. She said,
 ‘I’ve never ever liked you, ever since the day I set eyes on you.’
That was that. No approval was forthcoming, after all of that effort for years and years!  So- shd was out.

Fast forward to recent times -My dad expected me to take him in to live with him a couple of years ago ( mum had passed). He kept reminding me how they had taken grandma in, and that we were ‘the sort of family who looked after our older members‘. He ‘joked’ about which room he was going to have in our new house.
I said no and I didn’t JADE.
Just keep distant from it.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 08:29:13 AM by nanotech »