I feel guilty for planning my exit? anyone else?

[NeedSupport]

PS. I planned to say the words out loud and speak to her today and tell her the relationship was over but I couldn't bring myself to do it (again). 

Can someone just do it for me please and then wake me up when it is all over and the sun is up and I can feel like I can be me again. 

I am going to try again tomorrow.  It feels horrible.  It has been such a battle for me to complete the breakup.  I will try to update tomorrow night whether I was able to successfully follow through with it or not.  I want to be on the other side    

[pushit]

Pushit.. when I saw what your wrote, I thought... maybe for me it can be something as simple as me being able to feel like I'm not held back from doing what makes me happy.  I'm going to try to think that getting to a future place that I can be an authentic happier version of myself, is something bigger than the guilt.

That sounds like a great reason.  And you know what?  You absolutely deserve to be an authentic happy version of yourself.  A healthy relationship with a healthy partner would provide just that.  Healthy partners allow each other to grow and change, and support them while they do.

Can someone just do it for me please and then wake me up when it is all over and the sun is up and I can feel like I can be me again. 

I know you're saying this in jest, but the answer is obviously no.  The good part about going through it is that you will grow from this experience, and become a much improved version of yourself.  I'm still working on recovering from my marriage, probably 60-70% of the way there.  But, I'm so thankful for the experience of dealing with my exPDw and how it has allowed me to wake up and reevaluate all the relationships I have.  Sadly, some of the people I used to consider good friends are not as important to me now.  I've recognized some of the same manipulative behaviors in them (though to a much lesser degree) and have become less interested in continuing a close friendship.  This experience has created a road map for me to foster better relationships in the future.  I've been through hell, but the future is bright and I'm a better man because of this experience.

Look on the bright side - Not married and no kids together.  You are free to move on very easily.  I have three kids with my exPDw so we're bonded for life....be thankful you don't have that burden to bear.  Don't take that as bitterness on my part, I wouldn't trade my kids for the world even though I will have to deal with my ex in the future.

When you decide to say it - I suggest keeping it short, simple, and to the point.  Don't get sucked into a long circular conversation, just state what you want to happen and end the discussion.  Even leave the room or house if you have to.  Or heck, just move out while she's gone and write her an email to break up.  Do what you need to do and don't worry about how it looks.  I can't tell you how many times my ex was able to suck me into a circular conversation and make it all my fault, I knew when I divorced her that it couldn't be a face to face discussion so I just moved out and had her served.  It really sucked at first, but now it's just a memory and I'm much happier.

Good luck, let us know how it goes tomorrow.

[NeedSupport]

Thanks for the thoughts Pushit.

I should begin the conversation any time now, within the next hour or so; I'm already tensing up and considering backing out of doing it again 

Has anyone else ever been paralyzed by having to have this conversation?  Did you just blurt it out to get it over with?  I'm concerned I'll back out of doing it again.

[NeedSupport]

I failed again and could not pull myself to force the conversation    it feels horrible.  I keep letting myself down.

[11JB68]

NeedSupport- what is it, do you think, that is 'preventing' you from doing it/saying it out loud to her?
Is it fear of her reaction? (Violence, guilt, etc?) Is it your own mixed feelings about it?
What do you imagine might happen when you say it out loud to her (what's the worst, what's the best possible outcome/response/etc)?
e.g. I know that from my experience with uOCPDh that if/when I were to say to him, I'm done, I'm leaving, I want a divorce - there would be alternating rage, tears, threats of suicide, attempts to stop me from leaving the house, etc. I don't feel strong enough to respond well to any of that, so I feel that I may need to either just LEAVE (and have him served). I thought at one point that I would ask him to meet me somewhere public to avoid a 'scene', but with COVID I don't think that's really possible...

[NeedSupport]

I'm similar to you a bit where I feel like I wont be able to handle the after-math.  Guilt is a big one.  I think the largest one is my brain thinking there is a way to turn this into a normal relationship and it tells me I will regret leaving it later.  When logic points in the opposite direction, my brain is still somehow trying to make a relationship that does not work.. work 

Originally I thought it was fear of lonliness, but I've gotten over that.  I think it is just afraid of the aftermath and guilt.  I dont think there will be suicide threats/attempts, but constant barrage of nasty stuff is likely.  Then the silet treatment (even if I am attempting no-contact.. will also hurt like ice daggers).  It is so difficult.  I've been working with a personal therapist, and that has helped... but here I am .. stillllllll not pulling the rip cord 

This seems extreme, I've known this relationship is not right for me for atleast a year now.  Has anyone had such a level of failing to leave/break up like this?  How did you actually get it done?

[Poison Ivy]

NeedSupport, is there a person in your life who would be willing to be your coach or support person, i.e., someone to tell you "you can do this" and to whom you would report after you tell your partner that you want to split up?

[mrconfused]

Pushit.. when I saw what your wrote, I thought... maybe for me it can be something as simple as me being able to feel like I'm not held back from doing what makes me happy.  I'm going to try to think that getting to a future place that I can be an authentic happier version of myself, is something bigger than the guilt.

That sounds like a great reason.  And you know what?  You absolutely deserve to be an authentic happy version of yourself.  A healthy relationship with a healthy partner would provide just that.  Healthy partners allow each other to grow and change, and support them while they do.

Can someone just do it for me please and then wake me up when it is all over and the sun is up and I can feel like I can be me again. 

I know you're saying this in jest, but the answer is obviously no.  The good part about going through it is that you will grow from this experience, and become a much improved version of yourself.  I'm still working on recovering from my marriage, probably 60-70% of the way there.  But, I'm so thankful for the experience of dealing with my exPDw and how it has allowed me to wake up and reevaluate all the relationships I have.  Sadly, some of the people I used to consider good friends are not as important to me now.  I've recognized some of the same manipulative behaviors in them (though to a much lesser degree) and have become less interested in continuing a close friendship.  This experience has created a road map for me to foster better relationships in the future.  I've been through hell, but the future is bright and I'm a better man because of this experience.

Look on the bright side - Not married and no kids together.  You are free to move on very easily.  I have three kids with my exPDw so we're bonded for life....be thankful you don't have that burden to bear.  Don't take that as bitterness on my part, I wouldn't trade my kids for the world even though I will have to deal with my ex in the future.

When you decide to say it - I suggest keeping it short, simple, and to the point.  Don't get sucked into a long circular conversation, just state what you want to happen and end the discussion.  Even leave the room or house if you have to.  Or heck, just move out while she's gone and write her an email to break up.  Do what you need to do and don't worry about how it looks.  I can't tell you how many times my ex was able to suck me into a circular conversation and make it all my fault, I knew when I divorced her that it couldn't be a face to face discussion so I just moved out and had her served.  It really sucked at first, but now it's just a memory and I'm much happier.

Good luck, let us know how it goes tomorrow.

It sounds like you are just ahead of the curve of me. Congratulations on making it to where you are now.

Can I ask, what was the last push like, from the last circular failed attempt at leaving, to having a fully executable plan of moving out (where to go), how to juggle childcare through the divorce etc?

I'm currently thinking about my reboot final plan 2.0. Having realised i cannot leave wife, without literally physically leaving (even though my lawyers have said not to do this)... it has to be this way, she's just too slippery and emotionally overwhelming to ever take my no for an answer.

Fascinated for insight...

[NeedSupport]

I wish I was a bit further on the curve, (the other side), but similar to you I am still in the "I'm going to do it" phase.  In my situation if I were to write out the phases I've gone through it would probably be:

- Prevent breakup, I'm at fault
- Prevent breakup, maybe it is me and she is right, I havent shown her enough love
- Prevent breakup,  did i really give it my all? lets try again and give more and see if that works
- started a log of when she had emotional blow-ups or would do push/pull or break up with me.. and saw a pattern when i put it on a calendar
- Prevent breakup - REALIZE IT HAPPENS EVERY MONTH
- Plan to leave next time she breaks up with me
- Prevent Breakup - confused why I didnt take the chance to get out
- Plan to leave next time she breaks up with me FOR REAL NEXT TIME
- Prevent breakup - disappointed I somehow fought the break up again!
- Accepting that the relationship is toxic
- Tried to figure out why it is toxic so I can make sense of it all
- Accepting it doesn't matter why it is toxic, it only matters that it is toxic or atleast to make feels toxic
- Realized the breakup may not be something I want.. but something i need to do
- Put wheels in motion to have a new place because that would prevent me from backing out
- Allowed breakup to happen when she next broke it up... wow I actually didnt fight it.. and I can try to limp forward
- Fell back into relationship after a month of NC due to hoover regarding pandemic fears from her
- Prevent breakup - 
- Trying to work up the courage every day to break it off
- Failing to break it off every day, because when I try to get into the mindset to do it.. my brain shuts off, and I cant follow through with it
-Prevent breakup 
- Tell myself to just do it and get it done... then I dont
- anxious I'm ruining my life by not following through with break up


----- and as of today.. I'm hoping to get the courage or wisdom, or mindset, or acceptance, or clarity.. of what ever I need to complete the breakup tonight or this weekend.

wow... writing that out, and I only wrote about 1/10th of the saga.... maybe you should write it out?

I wish i had a magic bullet for you or could pass along my wisdom.... but we are in the same boat i think, keep doing your best and I'll try to keep doing my best also... congrats to where you have gotten.. I think by both being here and discussing this, we both are in a better place along the curve than we probably were months ago.  Has anyone recently been in the above cycle and broken it!? It feels like it is starting to swallow me up again.

[11JB68]

I'm struggling too.
For different reasons.
I think I'm not strong enough... Or h is to skilled with manipulation, to withstand the face to face drama.
Found out today I can do virtual therapy with no copay so I think I'll give that a try.

[pushit]

It sounds like you are just ahead of the curve of me. Congratulations on making it to where you are now.

Can I ask, what was the last push like, from the last circular failed attempt at leaving, to having a fully executable plan of moving out (where to go), how to juggle childcare through the divorce etc?

I'm currently thinking about my reboot final plan 2.0. Having realised i cannot leave wife, without literally physically leaving (even though my lawyers have said not to do this)... it has to be this way, she's just too slippery and emotionally overwhelming to ever take my no for an answer.

Fascinated for insight...

There were no failed circular attempts at leaving for me, oddly enough.  I figured out she was likely BPD and decided to stick around for the kids until they were adults, though I was mentally done with all the fighting.  I remember going to bed at night and thinking "one more day done, only 14 more years of this and then I can leave".  Ugh, how depressing.  I stayed in the marriage for about 18 months after I came Out of the FOG.  Over time, the less I engaged, the more outrageous her behavior became and eventually I had to leave to protect myself and the kids.

Since I had researched BPD a lot, I knew there was no way to have a discussion about divorce.  If I were to leave, I would need to have her served, move out that same day, and deal with the courts.  My lawyer advised against leaving the home, but I woke up at 3AM with her standing over me like Cathy Bates in the movie Misery the last night I was there so I called my attorney and told him "Plan B, no way in hell I'm sleeping in that house again".  (she hadn't been served yet, but I knew it was coming the next day)  He told me it wasn't that big of a deal and it ended up being fine that I left. (but check for sure in your jurisdiction)

I'll never forget that night/morning.  She hadn't been served yet, we had two encounters overnight.  The one at 3AM and another at 6AM when I tried to come upstairs from the basement.  She blocked me and told me I'm not allowed upstairs.     I eventually got her to back down when I said I'm calling the police.  I made coffee, went to my office, watched her wake up the kids 2 minutes before they need to leave and scream them out the door (I was never allowed to be a part of improving this process, it was her system), and when the kids wanted to tell me good morning she shooed them away from me.  It was creepy, she kept stomping back and forth past my office and glaring at me.  They finally left, I went into action packing up my essential belongings and went to work (this is when I called my lawyer and told him I'm out for good).  I wasn't even comfortable taking a shower at home before work, felt too vulnerable.  Thankfully my work had a shower there.  What a morning!  I was sweating profusely from stress, I stunk bad, and my truck was jammed full of stuff.  Then, I waited for the call from my lawyer that she had been served.  I went through all the proper steps - I notified my kids' school of what was happening and told them to let me know if the kids get picked up early, told my boss that he may get some crazy phone calls, etc.  The hardest part was worrying about my kids.  My lawyer said I can't "pre-punish" someone and since my ex usually picked up the kids I had to let it happen.  I had told him I wanted to have the kids with me that night but he said that would look really bad to the courts if I picked them up instead.  That was one of the hardest afternoons of my life - checking into a hotel, not knowing if my ex would harm the kids, and knowing that I was guaranteed one hell of a ride in the coming weeks.

Having a fully executed plan with a PD?  LOL!!!!  Yeah, we had a plan, but....She was served, accused me of a bunch of things, then had a mental breakdown and our lawyers agreed that the kids would remain with me until we received papers stating that she was not a threat to herself or the kids.  It took two weeks to get those papers.  In the meantime, (unbeknownst to me) exPDw moved out of our house, took all of the kids belongings, and I scrambled like crazy to get the kids to school without backpacks, snow pants, underwear, etc, while my lawyer barked at me that it's critical to get them to school.  The craziest two weeks of my life!!  My lawyer and I had a plan in the beginning, but things changed minute by minute.  We just needed to adjust and overcome.

There is no magic formula for this.  I just shared maybe 5% of what I went through, it was a complete shit show for about 6 weeks.  It's really about protecting yourself, and being DETERMINED to go through with it.  After everything I'd seen at home, all the manipulation I'd been through, and the disaster she was turning our lives into, there was no other choice but to make a hard split and let the chips fall where they may.  The best advice I can give is get yourself a good lawyer, one that is proactive and not afraid to go on the offensive.  I don't mean one that wants to attack and engage in needless battles, but one that is realistic and won't back down.  My ex started with a ton of accusations, my lawyer quickly turned it around and put her on the defensive.  My ex did me a huge favor by just being herself, when she acted out she forced her lawyer to quickly settle this in mediation.

Writing all that forced me to remember that day, and stirred up some emotions tonight.  But, I'll tell you this.  Tonight, my kids and I went to the neighbors house for a BBQ, had a great dinner and the kids ran around like crazy warriors in the backyard.  Full of smiles and laughter, while the parents chatted on the porch.  The kids and I are happier then we've ever been and the amount of self confidence they have now is light years ahead of where they were just two years ago.  I have zero doubt that I made the right decision, as tough as it has been to go through it.

Everybody has their breaking point, and that's when you decide it's time to figure out an escape.  Don't be afraid to do it secretly.  Mine was all secret, and we've made it through to the other side stronger than we were before.  You WILL know when you're ready.  Best of luck to you!

[Bowsy26]

What finally pushed me past the guilt and the personal doubts and feelings of obligation that I had was taking a head first fall down my basement steps in late December breaking a vertebra in my back along with assorted other injuries.  I'm still recovering from that event and just had a surgery this week to repair some internal damage (now that covid measures allow for nonemergency surgery).  As I have worked on recovering, I realized that this isn't a dress rehearsal, that when this life is done, it is literally done.  There is no do over.  Most of the years I have been married to my dnpdh, I have debated staying or leaving.  I've lost a lot in my life due to his antics and the stress on others who had to deal with our dynamic.  I realized how much I want peace in my life (defined as lack of strife) and that there is no way to achieve that while married to H.  So now I just wait for a senior apartment to open up for me so that I can move away and then institute divorce proceedings. 

A PS to this is I had that surgery this week and he did absolutely nothing to help me over the past several days.  Not even filling up a glass of water.  He has to be asked to do anything and instructed in it (like how full to fill the glass or he will only put an inch or 2 of water in it).  To top it off, a liver biopsy was taken due to a "suspicious" area.  He hasn't once asked if the results are in or not.  Not even interested.  But if I brought up his lack of interest, it would be denials of that and demands to know the answer, but only as a means to avoid the fact that he hasn't asked even once on his own.      And so that no one worries, yes, they found a liver issue but it is NOT cancer.  But H has no idea and will not ask if not prompted in some manner. For me this is just another example of if I start thinking things are not THAT bad and feeling more comfortable, something will happen to remind me that things really are that bad. 

[NeedSupport]

I did it.  I forced the conversation last night.  I feel bad for trying to stick to this plan.  Feels like I am quitting something that I shouldnt.  Some doubt already kicking in.  Some guilt sneaking in as well.  via the "FOG" the obligation and guilt part of it is setting in now that I have done this and i feel the obligation and guilt every time I remind myself to stick to it this time.  Feels selfish and I feel bad and it seems like I'm making a life mistake but I'll try to keep at it. 

[pushit]

Good for you!!!!  Give yourself a pat on the back, you took a big step!!

I would suggest keeping as much distance as possible.  Are you still living together?  If so, try not to be around your place when she's there, if you can.  If you're out, then stay out and don't go back.  Any interaction will be an easy way to get sucked back in.  To move forward I would sever any financial ties you may have - bank accounts, leases, car loans, whatever there is.

I can assure you that even though the guilt feels overwhelming, it will fade away slowly over time.  Don't feel bad about feeling guilty, allow yourself to process it.  Remind yourself that it's okay to have down days.  Man, I certainly had my share of them.

I think all of us that go through these relationships deal with C-PTSD at some level.  I heard a great description of the recovery from PTSD recently, I think it applies to recovering from these relationships as well (though PTSD comes from a single event, and C-PTSD is from ongoing trauma).  It's not something that is just "gone" one day, it's a weight you shed over time.  You may start out with a 500 lb weight of PTSD on your back, then 6 months later it's 300 lb, and a year later it's down to 50 lb.  I can certainly relate to that description.  The symptoms I had in the beginning (hyper-vigilance, irritability, trouble concentrating, trouble sleeping, loss of interest in things) are mostly gone now.  Stick with it, and I think you'll find the same to be true.

[frustratedanddiscouraged]

I am planning my exit. Got myself a PayPal account under a made-up email but my real name. Connected it to a new bank account  (through PayPal). He would notice if I withdrew money from our income, so I'm being sneaky- use a couponing app to buy groceries, send the rewards to my Paypal; Survey apps (totally a pain but have earned a few hundred); do a little freelance; stocking up on things like makeup, underwear, toiletries, tampons, things he wouldn't use or question when I leave with it- when the time comes, I will be stocked up.  It isn't much but if anything it makes me feel like I have something to myself and I can make it.

If I start to feel guilty, all I have to do is remind myself that he has refused to follow a budget for 20 years, drinks alcohol every night (that adds up!) won't apply for promotions while I work 2 jobs, withdrew his retirement in a panic a few years back... (I could keep going!).  If I don't prepare a little, he will do everything in his power to get everything he can.

Good luck!

[NeedSupport]

I can assure you that even though the guilt feels overwhelming, it will fade away slowly over time.  Don't feel bad about feeling guilty, allow yourself to process it.  Remind yourself that it's okay to have down days.  Man, I certainly had my share of them.

The symptoms I had in the beginning (hyper-vigilance, irritability, trouble concentrating, trouble sleeping, loss of interest in things) are mostly gone now.  Stick with it, and I think you'll find the same to be true.

Thanks Pushit.  I've made it through the first 36 hours post end of relationship discussion. The first text from her came in just now, I couldnt tell exactly if she was making a statement or a request, but I think it is an attempt to meet in person to discuss further.  Her txt insinuated it was a mistake that it seems we made a large life decision over the phone.  I have not responded yet, but I'm not sure how to handle this.  Maybe neutral response or greyrock?

Frustratedanddiscouraged ... hang in there you seem to be making progress.

[mrconfused]

I can assure you that even though the guilt feels overwhelming, it will fade away slowly over time.  Don't feel bad about feeling guilty, allow yourself to process it.  Remind yourself that it's okay to have down days.  Man, I certainly had my share of them.

The symptoms I had in the beginning (hyper-vigilance, irritability, trouble concentrating, trouble sleeping, loss of interest in things) are mostly gone now.  Stick with it, and I think you'll find the same to be true.

Thanks Pushit.  I've made it through the first 36 hours post end of relationship discussion. The first text from her came in just now, I couldnt tell exactly if she was making a statement or a request, but I think it is an attempt to meet in person to discuss further.  Her txt insinuated it was a mistake that it seems we made a large life decision over the phone.  I have not responded yet, but I'm not sure how to handle this.  Maybe neutral response or greyrock?

Frustratedanddiscouraged ... hang in there you seem to be making progress.

Do you want to end the relationship? If so state that you have nothing further to discuss at this point and if there is anything further to deal with e.g. personal belongings or what not, then say you will be in touch when you feel ready.

If you want to get back together, then reply to their questions, meet up and resume your regular patterns of behaviour.

If you are unsure whether you want to get back together, then reply to their questions, meet up and resume your regular patterns of behaviour.

[pushit]

 

What mrconfused said.  You need to make your decision and stick with it.