Flying Monkeys Nightmare

[Call Me Cordelia]

Noooooooo!!!!

If anything being a mother propelled me Out of the FOG. The stakes were higher. I had much less tolerance for any BS. I saw how I was with my kids vs. how they were. It became so obvious there was no love there. I was a mess every time and I had to run interference on every interaction with my children. Nope. Ain't nobody got time for that. Peace out, Grandma.

I left the door ajar with my in-laws, but not my parents. A boundaried relationship is available to them, at least. They've tried a few hoover tactics but not any sort of real change. I require that, I'm not going back for more of the same with playing nice for a time. They prefer to blame me and not have grandchildren. Okay. The longer they hold out the more I feel that door closing on my side, to be honest.

Another note, it's completely their job to convince me of that change. I'm not going to make it easy for them, I admit.

[lotusblume]

Blaaaarrrggghhhh, nooooo, pregnancy/having a baby made it a ZILLION times worse!!!
I mean my STARS you're already busy, you know? And then having to keep up your boundaries, and nmum came up with new shizz that I couldn't have imagined, PLUS increased bad behavior....
If you already red pilled yourself away and are keeping a safe distance, I say nothing could induce me to go back in pregnant, in hindsight.

LOL! Thank you for that!! That is how I feel 99% of the time too. I just need to keep in mind what is my unresolved fantasy thinking vs reality!!

[lotusblume]

Noooooooo!!!!

If anything being a mother propelled me Out of the FOG. The stakes were higher. I had much less tolerance for any BS. I saw how I was with my kids vs. how they were. It became so obvious there was no love there. I was a mess every time and I had to run interference on every interaction with my children. Nope. Ain't nobody got time for that. Peace out, Grandma.

I left the door ajar with my in-laws, but not my parents. A boundaried relationship is available to them, at least. They've tried a few hoover tactics but not any sort of real change. I require that, I'm not going back for more of the same with playing nice for a time. They prefer to blame me and not have grandchildren. Okay. The longer they hold out the more I feel that door closing on my side, to be honest.

Another note, it's completely their job to convince me of that change. I'm not going to make it easy for them, I admit.

I hear you CMC and I have read your stories! I find you have the more logical approach of my DH, who is very strong about his decisions, and I'm sometimes prone to whitewash and brainwash myself.

I agree with you there - it is at this point up to the generation before us to do the work. I have given them a map of how to reconcile, or at least the most important things to me for a reconciliation, and they ignore/rug sweep/blame me and play the victim.

Thanks for your comment. You're absolutely right. I have to be a strong mama for my little one! I am sure once he/she is born, I will also feel ultra protective and different things my parents did will bewilder me.

[DistanceNotDefense]

Whew, real life has sucked me in but I've been keeping tabs on this thread and your response, lotusblume....thank you! Sorry for my delay.

And first of all, sorry if I unintentionally caused any triggers! And if not and more has been going on elsewhere in your relations with FOO that has been triggering, I'm sorry for it too, either way. It feels like a thin line we walk to keep the guilt and shame at bay, every day, and I'm hoping you're feeling better by now and back on the tightrope.  (We're really just learning how to be trapeze artists, aren't we?)

Thank you for putting that all into perspective...I so agree with you, this feels like very twisted punishment for trying to lead a positive, healthy life. Even if there ARE imperfections that could be judged, in ourselves or our spouses, why do PDs and PD behaviors need to be piled on top of that? How do they really think that solves anything? The emotions can be so confusing around it all but the cold logic shows it for what it really is: dysfunction!

And the same goes to you too, lotusblume, your advice exactly: what your family put on you just because you paved your own way and created your own life, it is 100% undeserved on your part what your FOO has piled up on you. If mistakes were made along the way, sure, they can be worked out, but these consequences ARE brutal! There's nothing to work with. Especially with you having a child on the way! In a healthy family, that should be front and center, not their lingering issues or their own need to be at the center of things. Ugh.

"I don't think you need to communicate what I did clearly. I'm not even sure if it's the right thing to do, if you would ask a psych lol. I just felt like I needed to stand up to her, to speak the truth once and for all, and to put the blame where it belonged instead of taking out my pent up anger on other people I love."

Thank you! I feel this so much. And throwing in that a psych would say no too, lol, very validating...I'm not seeing a psych but considering going back to a T. But like you said, the dysfunction was messing with my marriage for sure, peeling back all these layers and ending up here did ultimately save it.

I'm glad you got to get your communication out there towards them in an empowering and very close-looped way. At least in my opinion, your communication effectively has put the ball in their court, no questions asked, they cant (especially your sibling) finagle out of that one. You've outlined what a healthy relationship looks like and what needs to be honored in order for there to be contact, and if they don't, then they just don't get it....more self-reflection needed! And that's not something you can do for them. A hard thing to internalize and believe, I struggle with this. But now I truly understand the saying "beating on a dead horse." This horse won't ride no matter what you do.

In comparison to your situation, mine was so much messier. In the heat of all this (I got really worked up!) all I demanded was for FOO not to bother lying to me that this smear wasn't taking place, which they did not do (only lied more and rug-swept, said my saying this was happening was insane, and one of them blocked me, don't blame the blocking, I blocked them). I do regret that I didn't give them any positive goal posts, so to speak. But I guess if they can't start with simply not lying, what's the use?

"Which is why she used a guilt tripping, manipulative fake apology to try to suck me back in. That is exactly what makes her so malignant. She knows exactly what to do to influence my feelings, make me feel responsible for her, and in fact to reignite that familial trauma bond sibling relationship. So I just sat with the feelings, processed them, and did nothing."

Im expecting this next from my own FOO. But have gotten communications like this already. I can't stand the letters, texts, emails etc. that upon a first read could even come off as sweet and caring, but then your read between the lines and you see the guilt-tripping! The subtle jabs. The attempt to now tilt the situation to make you the "mad and scary one" and now THEY are the good ones "trying to make amends" with empty words, offering a renewed connection but clearly only under the terms they offer, which those terms are "feel guilty and wrong". It's DARVO that's for sure.

And it can be the hardest thing to read something like that and know the best thing for yourself is to do nothing, to not respond. To sit through the illicited guilt, let it wash over you and away from you, and know that giving in would really only create more guilt anyway as much as the empathy in you really does want to fix things for them. Not your job anymore!

"On another note, I have been feeling this bizarre pull to my mother as I'm pregnant now, and she's not been hoovering me....

I have had these fantasies of calling her and telling her the great news, and her being happy for me. Then I realize, the last milestones in my life that I expected her to be happy about, she was very strange, dismissive, rejecting and avoidant. Still, my inner child believes in the good mom, who will be overjoyed. And honestly, maybe she will! But likely that would morph into some form of engulfment. It's a very difficult thing to process."

I totally echo what CMC and Spark said....No! Don't think so. I don't have children and can't speak from the exact same experience...but even reading others' experiences with FOO PDs around the whole new can of worms that opens up with children, it sounds like it brings a whole other dimension of PD out of them that is crazy making in its own way. You (and your child) also don't need any added stress while you're pregnant! You and your kiddo's health come first no questions asked.

But I bet the VLC is hard. I relate to hitting a major landmark in life (for me it wasn't having a kid, but buying a home and starting a business) and hoping, expecting, the praise and pride that a healthy parent should give. But they don't. My own M was dismissive and nitpicky about what I thought was something she should be supportive of (she was sometimes, but in other ways, her behavior was undermining and not to mention underwhelmed by this big step in my life). I won't even get into my PD siblings reaction to it.

I actually didn't even realize that buying a home was something most healthy families would drop everything and celebrate over! Not until this year when the papers were signed, and people I barely even knew we're giving me the props and attention that my FOO couldn't even muster. It was shocking and eye opening. Not to mention the years that went by and my husband and I talked about purchasing, and my FOO's response was disinterest and even boredom, probably thinking (or hoping?), it wouldn't work out. The first time they were even in the house and we talked about buying, nothing but underwhelm! What???

I even mentioned the happiness of the occasion to combat my M's expressed concern over the health of my marriage long after things were clearly on the mend again. It didn't register, she didn't address it. It was like it was nothing, no congrats or anything.

If your own FOO can't see the occasion to celebrate your relationship with your husband, and all the strides you've made, then what will their "support" of his child and your motherhood look like? Having a kid is truly special (definitely a bigger cause for celebration and pride than home purchase!) What your FOC has is truly special and the occasion deserves nothing but special love and attention, not warped attention or deluded intentions. Mayne make your big announcement only with those who really see and know how to honor how special you and the occasion are. And maybe hearing "Congratulations!" someday through VLC will be the best they can give and the healthiest thing for your FOC that you can accept....for now.

"I am grieving the wish I had a family that would be happy for me, or at least a level of dysfunction I could giggle about and roll my eyes. That's what it used to be, before I was red-pilled Out of the FOG.

I wouldn't trade anything for the truth, the amount of growth, healing and maturity I have developed is surreal, and I am an immensely better partner, and I will be a million times better equipped to be a good enough mother.

But I am grieving not being able to share this time with my FOO, despite everything they have put me through (and continue to)."

For what it's worth, I think what you've written right here is beautiful and a testament that you are going to create a beautiful and healthy life with your husband and your child. It deserves nothing but a warm "congratulations!" (at least you'll get that from is here on the forum!) and any healthy mother (and sibling!) would be ridiculously proud of you, with no designs on you and your FOC but ONLY giving you the undivided attention, support, and pride that a new mother deserves.

If anything I feel worse for your family than for you grieving the absence of a healthy mother (though don't get me wrong....that is undeniably difficult!) because they're missing out on a really amazing stage of your life. They're missing out on beautiful memories and moments because they can't get over themselves and heal. And again, I can't emphasize enough that you've done all you can to include them and that's not on you...and again for what it's worth, I'm super proud of you and I don't even know you!

So much more I could write but real life calls again. Take care, lotusblume!