Cant be bothered to help themselves - should we just leave them to it?

Started by p123, August 10, 2020, 03:28:41 AM

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WomanInterrupted

It really is a lousy feeling and it can be like a sucker-punch to the soul.   We're being manipulated by being "tested"  - the more inconvenient the problem is for us, the happier they are, especially if they can get us to drop everything with their continued moaning, or twist us into knots, trying to solve unsolvable problems they don't *want* solved.

UnBPD Didi had digestive issues, compounded with weight loss.  I'd cook her favorite foods for her and deliver them.

At first she was appreciative and would pay me in advance for ingredients.   Then she started not paying in advance and complaining - little things.  The rice wasn't soft enough, the pickles weren't soft enough, the brined chicken breasts were still tough, and the crust on the bread was too crusty.

Little things I could correct - steam rice longer, cook pickles longer, brine chicken longer and cook at a lower temp, and the bread? 

Well, you're on your own - it's supposed to be a crusty loaf.  Eat around it.   :oh:

Besides, this is bread *from scratch.*   :cloud9:

Yeah!   I bake my own bread because I'm kind of mental about all things culinary.   I love cooking and take it very seriously - especially complaints.  I strive to rectify and make things right, but Didi was complaining about nothing - the rice was steamed to perfect doneness, the pickles couldn't get much softer because they have actual mass, fiber and structure, the chicken we tried from the same batch wasn't tough or dry  - so what gives?  :stars:

Still, I tried to correct the rice, pickles and chicken, but got to listen to her whinge about the bread crust cutting her delicate little mouth. (Cut the damned crust OFF and give it to Ray, who was a virtual bread zombie!)

*Brief aside - bread zombie:  shuffles in, pays NO attention to anybody or anything but the bread, cuts off a hunk of warm bread (how's THAT for delivery!?   8-)), slather with butter, shuffles out  - all without a word  or a glance at his surroundings  - or us, who were right near the bread.   :aaauuugh:

I've never seen anything like it.   :blink:

Aliens - actual aliens! - could be invading and all hell could be breaking loose, but still, it's, "Breaaaaddddd...must get to the breaaaaaadddd..."  :wacko:

I digress - but I wanted to share because that was actually pretty damned funny.  :rofl:

I *finally* managed to get payment BUT she let the pickles go bad in the fridge and needed more.  :roll:   Oooops!  And don't bring bread - her doctor thought she was allergic to gluten.   :dramaqueen:

That was a lie - she was punishing Ray and didn't want him to have something he so obviously enjoyed.  I saw her eat plenty of store bread after that - but she never could keep her fake problems straight...   :roll:

I was miffed about her letting the pickles go bad, but made more, and rice, and chicken, and bacon, which was also a staple.  She wanted it CRISPY.  I'd render that stuff for a good  20 minutes, until there was even a little black char on the it, which was exactly what she liked, but never could manage to get at restaurants and would NEVER send it back. 

She'd stare at the plate and "cry" instead, making a GREAT show of having to condescend to each such swill...  :violin:

Then I'd take that pound of bacon, which I'd cooked flat, place it on a cookie sheet and stick it in the freezer, so she had individually frozen bacon strips.  I'd put them in a freezer bag and all she had to do was take a few out and stick 'em in the microwave.   :thumbup:

These are things you do for somebody who loves you - or you *think* loves you, or you think maybe, just once, you can win - and keep - their approval.   :doh:

Not so.

Pickles STILL too hard, rice STILL too hard, chicken STILL too tough and now?

The bacon was NOT flat enough.  :dramaqueen: :violin:

And I didn't get paid.  Again.   :roll:

That's when I started seriously thinking about what was actually going on and she was intentionally trying to make my life more difficult by finding non-existent problems.  The pickles WERE soft and no, I wasn't going to put them in the pressure cooker for half an hour!

If the rice were any softer, it would have been congee (rice porridge - and very tasty), the chicken breasts gushed clear juices like Niagara Falls (I exaggerate, but juicy!), and the bacon could NOT get any freaking flatter - not when cooked with a weight on it to hold the shape *and frozen flat on a cookie sheet!* 

That's when I decided to get OFF the merry-go-round.  She was just trying to make me jump thought hoops and worse, not paying me because she *expected this kind of treatment.*   :(

She'd have to pay a chef - and I was only charging for ingredients.  Not my time and not the spices I used, and I *love* cooking, so she was making things  harder by being THE fussiest person on earth; the princess who could never be pleased.   :roll:

Most people would be appreciative - all she could do was gripe because it wasn't HARD enough, and I wasn't inconvenienced enough, so she was going to stiff me on payment, too.

The food truck broke down without warning and never came again.   :ninja:

One day, she called and said, "I need pickles...I need bacon...I need chicken....I need rice..." - like she was placing a freaking order, and I just said, "I'll see what I can do."   :ninja:

What I could do was nothing except ignore her - and THAT'S  when she started "forgetting" to get script renewals from her doctor - things she knew had to be renewed MONTHS in advance - and started insisting I call the pharmacy and plead on her behalf, or track down the replacement doctor, since hers was on vacation and she was NOT going to be seen by somebody she didn't know.  :dramaqueen:

This would usually happen half an hour before the pharmacy closed - and right before the day she claimed she'd be out of meds.  :roll:

Me:  I can't help you.  You can either see the doctor or go to the ER, but there' s nothing I can do.    :ninja:

She'd whine and plead and "cry" and beg and tell me I was her last hope - my answer was always the same:  NO.  :ninja:

Contrast that with DH's grandparents, who were in their 80's and having trouble getting around. 

Grandma would give us a list, we'd shop  for them, bring the stuff home, put it away, and give her the change - she'd not only insist we keep it but *pay us for our time, even when we asked her not to!*   :)

They never complained, never pulled a last-minute switcheroo (Oh, you got what I wrote when I was THINKING I wanted...  :doh:), and never did anything that made us feel used, unappreciated or manipulated. 

That's why we never had a problem shopping for them for over six years, and taking on other household chores, when asked - we were *asked,* it was always as our schedules allowed, and  we were always paid, even when we said it wasn't necessary.

Grandma insisted it WAS - and she was right.  :yes:

The PDs in our lives could have learned a few things from her.

But they never will.  They just keep trying to think of new and interesting ways to make our lives difficult, to prove *we don't matter* - only they DO.

:hug:

p123

Quote from: Adrianna on August 17, 2020, 07:43:23 PM
Quote from: p123 on August 17, 2020, 01:02:24 PM
I think thats what I find most difficult to deal with.

The fact that he likes getting me to do things for the sake of it just to "test" me or get some sort of warm glow.

It's a difficult thing to accept and it's an unsettling, disturbing and overall lousy feeling, once you realize you are being manipulated by someone who society says is supposed to love us.

I've done a lot for my Dad over the years. A lot..

It just annoys me so much he is so disrespectful...

Adrianna

WI I am always at a loss for words when I read your highly descriptive stories of your two "parents". It's just unreal the drama that you had to deal with, and not with just one, but with both parents.

Your mother sounds like she had traits of the "queen" Borderline type. I see a lot of similarities with her and my grandmother. The meds issue was one she used a lot too. She loooooooved watching me run to the store after work, knowing I was tired and just wanted to go home, all because she was "almost out". I'd go over and there would be a full bottle there already. It wasn't about the meds at all. It was about watching me do tricks for her. I got downright pissed off as time went on. No one likes to be manipulated.

The Ray bread story!  Loved it.
Practice an attitude of gratitude.

nanotech

Oh my goodness WI, you did all that for them.
Wowzer.
Yes, I've stopped too. My dad is just the same.

A few years ago we had booked a cottage in the Scottish highlands. It had extra bedrooms. We talked about taking dad with us. We felt we should offer him a holiday with us.
So we asked him.

'Dad, we are going to Scotland, up to the highlands, and we'd love to take you with us. Will you come?'

( Dad thinks)
'Um. Well you know, we will have to stay in Stirling on the way up. You will have to book the exact bed and breakfast I like; nowhere else will do.( goes on about the food in the b & b)
It's the same place I always stayed with your mother. It's the cheapest and best.'

( reminisces about his past holidays in Scotland with mum).

'And (to my husband) you will also have to drive a certain route ( increases authoritative tone) because it is
The Best Road. That 'other' route up to the highlands is 'no good.' '

We've travelled 'that other route' several times. It's beautiful all the way up, and and it's a good road. It's a bit more winding, because it runs alongside Loch Lomond. (Mum didn't like winding roads. Mum had passed on and wouldn't be travelling with us, but we still had to apparently take mum's travelling preferences into account when planning our holiday.
My dad's choices were fine if it were his trip. but he'd  missed the point. This was OUR holiday, and we had kindly asked him along. He simply couldn't accept the possibility of US taking HIM on holiday. It had to become HIS holiday, with all of HIS choices.

We've never asked him again. I still cannot imagine just how much worse it would have become, if we had agreed to dad's conditions. Once there, we would have been at the mercy of his million more conditions and his increasingly idiosyncratic demands on where is okay to eat, where to explore, what time to get up, go to bed etc. He would have hated the cottage too. (it was lovely).
What were we thinking?

We think we might have gone insane on that holiday.



Adrianna

Nano he would have ruined that holiday for you without question.  I'm glad he didn't go and you were smart to never invite him again.

I invited my father and mother over for Easter dinner once and my father put up such a fight over it that I was nearly in tears. I was just trying to do something nice. He did eventually agree, Pretty sure it was to shut me up (I may have even heard him say those words but can't recall), and they did come over but I never invited them over after that.

My mother in law used to invite them for holiday dinners and often she wouldn't even get an RSVP. She wouldn't know if they would show up or not and couldn't plan for the food. One year they agreed to go to Thanksgiving dinner, and the day before he bailed, saying he had to mow his lawn. My mother in law never invited them again. No appreciation, no thankfulness, no courtesy towards others.

Practice an attitude of gratitude.

p123

Got to tell you how our Xmas Day used to go....

Dad lives 25 miles away. So a few days before he'd phone me "what time are you picking me up? 9am".
"No Dad - the kids need to open their presents first then I'll be up".
Dad - "no need for you to be there" moan moan. That was the first thing.

So hour+ round trip and we're back at our house.
He' d do the "one inch shuffle" I used to call it. Pretending he cant walk. He'd be hanging onto me and pretty much pulling me over. Bear in mind I know he used to walk over 1/2 mile across a busy road to the betting shop.
So he'd sit down. Same when he needed to use the bathroom. 2nd time he'd pretend he'd forgotten where it was as well..... I'd have to literally carry him.

Then "I can't see in here its too dark". We've got 3 cats - "get them away from me they're filthy" - he doesnt like cats. "Put them outside". Jeez.

Then he;d moan, I'm so ill I cant eat much. He'd sit at the table and literally shovel it in. It'd be everywhere. Then we'd have burping and breaking wind.
Every year he's say "I can't have cranberry sauce I'm on warfarin it'll kill me".

Table conversation would usually start off with "you spoil those kids you need you're heads read". Even though I'd asked him not to say this.
His worse one was when cats were mentioned. Without going into details, he'd tell us the story of how his neighbours cat met his end. All the while my 4-5 year old is listening!

He'd stay for hours. I'd try to hint. Eventually he'd go home. Another hour round trip. He'd say "Oh well you don't drink much, so you don;t mind drinking all day do you?"
Cheers Dad thanks for making the decision for me then - by the time I got home at about 7-8pm I needed a drink.

His last year (before we stopped it) he was feeling sorry for himself. Convinced he was ill. GP was having none of it but Dad was convinced he wasnt going to last until the doctors was open again. Didnt stop him shovelling down a massive xmas dinner. Do I dropped him home like normal and he piped up "Im ill I'm going to call an ambulance". I then spent hours talking to him. He didnt in the end.

It was 10pm by the time I got home. My son who was 15 at the time had been waiting all day for me to do something for him. My wife went nuts and she was right.

Now we don;t invite him. Wifes a nurse so we tell a little white lie. Saying that I took him to a restautrant last boxing day and he was a nightmare there too.


nanotech

 Holidays, Easter, Christmas. They are all supposed to be fun. Times when family get to enjoy and appreciate each other!
It's such a shame.
Adrianna I think it's the power they can't hand over somehow. They always want to be in charge as host or chief organiser. They don't view our offers as a kindness. They can't seem to grasp that it could be an act of love, rather than an opportunity to make them feel ' less than'.
  They have no awareness that even by asking them, we are already going to make sacrifices at that event. The loveliest of elderly parents are still quite high maintenance. But that's okay when they are nonPD.  And their children do it out of pure goodness.
We want to do the same, because we too feel empathic toward our parents.
But they don't recognise empathy as a player.
They must think they we feel just like them,
and that we are asking them because we just want to boast or patronise and 'get one over on them'.
Non PD parents understand and enthuse and accept  to come when they are not running things.
With a PD parent there is no recognition of that; or my dad wouldn't have demanded control.
He didn't even say thank you for the offer. The whole gift horse in the mouth scenario once again. You end up with a bad taste in your mouth, wishing you hadn't said anything. at all.
Adrianna- I cant believe the ' mowing the lawn' excuse.
P123- I've read on here about a posters mum wanting to talk about how she 'got rid of' a cat and how the ever repeated story really upset the poster.
I thought of it when you said how your dad disliked your cats and liked to talk about a cat dying in front of your children. I think this is covert abuse.
I think it was Jerry Wise who said that narcissists offen use a technique to  covertly abuse their targets.
They bring up a (often drastic and scary) story about something, and the end result of that story is their deep down wish.
He wanted your cats gone, permanently. He couldn't say it directly, so he said it indirectly, in front of your little girl too.

UNPDsister is very good at doing this.
She used to bring up tragedies and disasters and negativity that would have an indirect but indisputable connection with something in my life that I did, that I liked, or  somewhere I'd travelled to, or to something I  strongly believed in. It is all about rubbishing us, about denigrating our lifestyles. It's all about doing it in a way which is deniable if called out.
With family like that, why would we stay, once we've come Out of the FOG?
They do it to cast criticism and to threaten, unsettle and upset us.


Adrianna

Nano spot on.

Often they don't say thank you or appreciate anything. One year I gave my father a gift bag for his birthday and he peered into it, put it on the floor and did not say thank you. Why bother?  I had a friend do this as well and that's when pieces started falling into place. Once you see pd people outside your family doing similar behaviors to your pd family, you start putting the puzzle together and some of those pd friendships have to end.

I too think it's abusive about the cat. Often as well they will also use these comments to upset the person under the guise of "joking." It's abusive in my book.  "But I'm kidding!" Hardly. Once someone pulls that with me now it's adios.

I had a pd friend laugh and "joke" about me making this person so angry they wanted to take someone to the cellar to the garage to crack their skull open. Just one crack. That was the last time I saw that person. I don't need friends like that. Joking or not there's some truth behind that threat, which is that I should stay in line and keep my mouth shut or I could end up gone. It was one of the most disturbing things anyone had ever said to me. There was a little too much detail in that "joke".  I no longer speak to that person.

Practice an attitude of gratitude.

Poison Ivy

My late father-in-law would talk about abusing animals. Here is an example, which I think occurred during my final visit to his home, at Thanksgiving 2009. Our dog had undergone surgery a week or two before then to have a toe amputated, and she required more attention than usual, to make sure she didn't lick the wound. FIL said something like, "If that was my dog, we would have shot it" or "When I was growing up, we dealt with things like that by shooting the dog." This comment and FIL's greater than usual rudeness, all directed at me, led me to decide to go VLC with him. I did not see him again, and he died last October.

p123

Oh yes Dad is full of inappropriate comments.... He always did it. Remember when wife was pregnant and hes asked "so was it planned?"

He seems to think he can say what he wants when he wants even in someone elses house etc. His attitude is "well if you don't like it". Well we dont so hes no longer invited.
At the beginning, I spoke to him nicely about it and his answer was "you know me if I've got something to say I've got say it". I give up.

As I've said before, he wants things how he wants them and he wants everyone to run around after him and do nothing himself.

guitarman

Whatever happens stay calm.

You need to calmly decide what you want to do. Not what you should, could, must or need to do. Then firmly and calmly stick to it.

You do not have to get on their emotional roller coaster with them. Get off it and just calmly watch them from afar.

Observe, don't absorb.

Become a lighthouse not a lifeboat.

If you can't help them they will be very skilled at finding someone else who will. They are very resourceful and clever. There always has to be someone. I pity them.
"Do not let the behaviour of others destroy your inner peace." - Dalai Lama

"You don't have to be a part of it, you can become apart from it." - guitarman

"Be gentle with yourself, you're doing the best you can." - Anon

"If it hurts it isn't love." - Kris Godinez, counsellor and author