*warning, pd sex related* mining through my history

[SparkStillLit]

I have told updh he is not to dig through my sexual history for his own titillation anymore. He still does it. I stop speaking and reacting when he does. This has....limited effectiveness.
I have realized, far too late, that I am not obligated to tell ANYONE, ANYTHING. If there ever is a "next time" I'm going CLEAN SLATE and not saying a fkn thing, it's nunya damn business!
He tells me things that I supposedly told him, from before I ever even laid eyes on him, that I have ZERO recollection of. Even in the telling, it does not trigger a memory. He insists-insists-insists it's so, and I'll think, ok, maybe I have the vaguest recollection of something like that, MAYBE, yeah, was't that so and so...but then I wonder WAIT A DAMN MINUTE, am I letting him rewrite my memory???? Do I REALLY remember this, or....??????
It's brain warping. I don't like it.

[GettingOOTF]

I really hate when people claim ownership over parts of my past like this. It's another form of control and manipulation.

When I am dating I let the other person know that I am disease free and always safe. That is the only thing anyone is allowed to ask about my sex life. I have had people ask things about my "history" on the first date and act like I'm unreasonable when I won't discuss it. I've come to see this as a red flag and a massive indicator of insecurity on their part.

I used to think I owed everyone an answer. Now I see that you can tell a lot about a person by the kinds of questions they ask.

It's even worse that he knows this bothers you and he keeps doing it. I was really self conscious about something with my body. My ex knew this. He gave it a nickname and would touch me there all the time. I'd get upset and he'd then say he was just being funny and pointing out that he loved that part of me. Well that was not what he was doing at all. He was being cruel and putting me in what he thought was my place.

[ToAudrey]

Spark - same here for if there is another time clean slate! For me it has been knowledge of the past being used as an excuse for uncomfortable/unwanted behavior. "Well such and such (somewhat similar but very very different) happened with so-n-so so XYZ should be fine." Um no. Tolerating something unwanted in the past does NOT give a free pass for anything similar in the present or future.  Yet another red flag I ignored.

Hoping to have finally learned that it is perfectly ok to have deal breakers and not feel so obligated to just stay quiet and accommodating.

[SparkStillLit]

ToAudrey YES TO THAT, too!! Or even if you tried a thing and didn't find it appealing, you don't have to keep doing it, or keep talking about it, or WHATEVER!!!!! Just, NO MORE!!
Quiet and accommodating, indeed!

[ToAudrey]

Back before I knew to not JADE and just in general give deep information I mentioned how a particular situation was very off putting for me I was screamed at and called a liar over and over. Not sure if he cannot or just will not read body language. My 50% is I should have verbalized what I didn't care for however body language was very obvious. Screamed and screamed that no one would just allow things they weren't into. Yeah not everyone is conditioned that way and there are meant who will accommodate and be quiet to appease another or otherwise feel they can't speak up/do anything.

[1footouttadefog]

The mining and using your experiences with others for his sexual fantasies, is certainly something you have a right to out a boundary against.

I see it as kinda like retroactive vouyerism.  Like he is a peeping tom to what you experienced in private with another person.

Weird, and wrong if it makes you uncomfortable.  Also he does not have your former partners' consent.

That he gaslights your memories for his sexual pleasure is downright creepy. 

[1footouttadefog]

Since it was brought up, i will add regarding the sexual past issue, I would feel entitled to know some basic information.

I would want to assertain of the person tended toward long term commited relationships or juggling between multiple partners and one nighters.

I would want to know of they had habitually participated in certain things and if those things were part of what they considered normal so I would know of their aspectations were aligned with mine.

I would not want the details of who and what, jist enough to see if compatibility was even potentially possible before exposing myself.

[bat123]

Spark, this is your spouse?  How long have you been together?  Unwanted comments and questions about your past sexual history should not even be a thing at this point!  If it feels manipulative and brain-warping, it is.  I speak from experience.  My spouse read my journals (written in my teens/early 20s) a few years ago, and continues to mine things from them to use against me.  A few have been sexual in nature.   ( like, if I say I don't like anchovies he might say, yes, you do, you wrote in your journal that you did).  It's just another form of manipulation/gaslighting.  I manage it by stating once that I do not wish to discuss things from my journals, then ignore him if he continues.  Like the rest of his behaviors, I realize I can't talk him out of anything.  I manage and minimize the behavior as best I can, and reserve the right to leave the relationship if it no longer seems manageable.

[SparkStillLit]

Yes. My spouse of 25 years.
****WARNING SUICIDE TRIGGER*****



I'm just going to throw this firebomb in my own thread. My d attempted her life last night. She is being cared for in a safe place and will continue to be kept safe and monitored. She has not harmed herself nor her future.
I was frozen in fear last night and didn't know how to help. A friend actually did what needed doing. I have always wondered if D was traumatized, had fleas, or had a PD herself. I was frozen. Updh was going Off. The. Rails.
It was total utter chaos.
Today he is now saying things like he hopes she's learned a lesson, when will this ever stop,his mother did this stuff her whole life and SHE never stopped, she will just keep going bigger and worse, etc things like that.
When I finally became tired of this and spoke out against it, he became angry and said he was "just discussing and coping".
He said the exact same things last night in response to my same reactions to similar pronouncements, before we ever even knew she was safe.
Who. Does. This.
I'm still a mess. And on top, I have a feeling like I will be shunned and she will be and nobody will show kindness and NOBODY CAN KNOW and I have nowhere to turn. She doesn't wish for me to say anything, so I won't, except here where I believe zi've been vague enough, but I'm trapped in my own head.
Oh and plus now he's giving me the ST.
Last night he was all lovey and "we'll get through this together" and I might have said something angry at that, I was so scared I might lose a child, well she is a young adult, but she's our child, and I bet he saved that right up to use on me today, or whenever immediate crisis was over.

[bat123]

I'm so very sorry, Spark.  Please take good care and know there are people here to support you.

[Starboard Song]

Yeah, we may owe people a little information as we enter a relationship, but you have the right to put all that history behind you and never have it held up in front of you again, true or false.

I am so sorry he is not respecting you on this.

[1footouttadefog]

Bat123 made a very good statement:

"I manage and minimize the behavior as best I can, and reserve the right to leave the relationship if it no longer seems manageable."

Spark, I am sorry to read about your daughter.  I am additionally saddened to read that your H made it about himself.

Be strong.

[SparkStillLit]

Thank you guys. I can't believe the things he's said. No, that's not right, I *can*, I guess I just .... I dunno. Hoped for better. He's saying and doing the exact same old stuff he always says and does whenever he has any of his meltdowns about heaven knows what they're ever about, except this time I know. I'm not engaging at ALL, in fact I'm not even MC, I'm grey rocking because I have nothing whatsoever going into this right now. I cannot be any part of one of those meltdowns. I'm just looking at it, disappointed yes, amazed a little bit that this has happened and garnered the exact same response as I dunno minor other shit. And he's talking so much about himself, and he was talking so much about how it would affect him, or how she was ruining her life and how she would just end up with "a bad crowd"....and did we even know she would still HAVE a life? I was pretty certain she would. She is far from us, so I couldn't be sure exactly what happened. He mostly focused on/is still focusing on how she is addicted to drama and now she's getting all the attention. I'm not so sure. I said if that were the case, this has gone too far and there are too many poor consequences that she wouldn't choose this again. If it's not true, then she is getting the help she desperately needs. I think she might be traumatized, and hit the wall. Maybe she's a little dramatic, but she didn't THREATEN. She did something dangerous, and then contacted those she most loved and trusted.

[GettingOOTF]

I am sorry for what you are going through.

My ex used to threaten suicide all the time. His psychiatrist told me that people who threaten are not serious. People who are serious simply go off and kill themselves. Many of those who don't do something they can't back out of will ask for help once they've started. Interviews with suicide survivors detail how they almost all changed their minds once they'd taken the step to end their lives.  It seems like this is the case with your daughter.

I hope both you and she are getting support. I grew up in a PD home with a father very similar to how you describe your ex. I remember feeling so trapped by the situation and wanting to die. My 20s were a really tough time for me. I got in to all sorts of things and felt totally lost as I had no solid foundation from my upbringing.  I was also "addicted to drama". The thing is that this was how I learned to behave. It wasn't a choice, it's how I thought life was due to my chaotic upbringing. It has taken me over 40 years to break this addiction.

I managed to turn it around though. I hope your daughter is able to too and I sincerely hope you are able to get support for yourself as well.

[rubixcube]

Sparks, I am so sorry. I can't begin to imagine what you must be going through. It puts a knot in my stomach thinking about it.
If I could give you a big hug, I would.

[SparkStillLit]

She is getting help. I *think*, I *hope*, she is somewhere where she has a chance to be free of the chaos and live her best life. She picked it out, and when she's not under the fog, she loves it and has big plans. It's fairly drama and chaos free, and I wonder if she doesn't know what to do with herself. I hope she figures out that THAT in fact is how to live. I think that's why she likes it so much, but maybe also part of the reason she broke down.
Me...well, here I am. Drama and chaos central.

[losingmyself]

Spark, I am so sorry to hear about your daughter, and I hope she can find the help and support she needs.
When my D was 13, she told us, while were fighting in the car, that she had been cutting herself. I didn't know what to do. H decided to take her to the hospital's mental health center, where she told the therapist that she had considered suicide. She stayed for 72 hours, then went to her dad's permanently.
All through this, all I heard was the same things you're hearing. I never had time to grieve for myself or my D, it was all about him, or how she was faking, or a drama queen.
I still haven't really processed it, or spoke to D about it, we just moved on. Now, if I try to think about it too much, I get anxiety attacks, so I just don't. I still get a sinking feeling when I drive by the hospital where she was. I just try not to look.
Anyway, I'm probably not being helpful here. Just wanted you to know that I'm sending you good thoughts and prayers.

[losingmyself]

Spark, I can feel you. I understand your feelings. You just want to scream "WTF is wrong with you??!!"
Just to throw it out there, because I have heard all the crappy things about my D, since she's an adult, she can choose to go LC or even NC with him. When your D calls, you speak to her, and hang up? Or would that cause WW3? I might even say to him that you couldn't imagine that he would want to speak to her, since he feels all those negative things about her.
You get to a point where you think your brain's going to explode because there's so much going on.
This place helped me. First, deep breaths. I've been told that when you're stressed, you don't breathe correctly, and your brain gets scrambled, so if you can go someplace alone and quiet, and take deep breaths even for 2 or 3 minutes, it helps. As often as possible.
And go back to the toolbox.
I know that all of my H yelling is his insecurity about someone being more important to me than him. I picture him yelling in the wind when he goes off.
Again, I'm sorry you're going through this.

[SparkStillLit]

Losing, I called her privately. She was much cheerier. I talked to her for a bit, and then she wanted to go because she wanted to finish her dinner. SO MUCH BETTER.
I shared how to reach her, and some of what she shared. So much negativity about what she shared, *but she did not have to hear it*.
Thus far, not one negative thing that he has claimed to be "reality" has turned out to be even remotely true. In fact, the opposite positive thing keeps happening. I know that will not always be the case, but it's helping me counter his relentless negativity right now.
And why on earth would you be that way toward your kid....why would you not want the BEST POSSIBLE OUTCOME....why would you keep thinking up and predicting the WORST.....

[SparkStillLit]

I said before about when he talks to her, he triggers her on purpose (I guess on purpose), and when she reacts in the predictable way, he becomes angry with her and calls her cold and mean. Not to her face, but to ME. To upset me? To upset the entire apple cart? This is why I used to dread their interactions, because it was the *same thing, every time* and when he did it to her on the phone today I was (just in my head) like OMG HOW COULD YOU!!!! And then of course he had the same reaction, as did she, and it was just like always, except this time I was HORRIFIED.
And just all this incessant negativity and how she will do this again (what?????) And how she's making mistakes and bad choices (what the fk???????) And what a terrible mistake she made, doing this thing (MISTAKE??!!????!!!)...
You guys, I just....I don't even have words.