Why hello old friends! I’m back and asking for advice on how to handle a request

[H_Allison]

Hello friends!

It's been a while since I posted- which is actually a good sign! Things have not exceeded the occasional 'eye roll' with NPD MIL over the last year and a half. My vvvvlc has been successful and MIL's boyfriend has been a welcome distraction for her.

Quick update/context: DD is approaching 2yrs old now (they aren't kidding when they say time flies!!!) and MIL has spent probably a total of 6 days with her. Fine with me- we accommodate when she requests (within our boundaries and convenience of course) but clearly it isn't that often to really be much of an interference of our peaceful existence without her. Lots of empty 'threats' from her, but little initiative to plan anything. All fine with me. I am very early in a pregnancy with baby #2 and the first trimester is killing me. Quarantine has actually been a blessing in disguise for this reason- I can work from home without having to fake that I don't feel like hell every minute of every day.  We are not telling anyone who doesn't have to know about the pregnancy until I hit the second trimester around mid-September. Meanwhile, SIL and brother are expecting their first about three months before us, so there's lots of fun and exciting stuff happening with my side of the family!

MIL recently did a bunch of social media love bombing which means she's gearing up for an ask of some kind. Sure enough about a week later (today) I get this long, ridiculous email from her (copying DH) about all this nonsensical stuff she is filling her time with (oh, forgot to mention that she retired last year but still doesn't have time to even FaceTime her grandchild.... whatever), asks a bunch of questions that she already knows the answer to (in an effort to highlight the difference between the amount of time my parents have spent with DD- I believe to lay a foundation of guilt to inhibit her from saying no to her request), and then right before a quick sign off an request for us to send her a date to visit.

Here's where I want advice:
I am following DH's lead on how bad he wants to facilitate this, but let's assume he wants to. These are the considerations top of mind for me:
1. I hate seeing this woman when I'm wearing my skinniest jeans after a fabulous blowout on top of a sun kissed tan. I AM NOT suffering through a visit with her while fending off puking my guts out. Also- she never fails to comment on my weight/appearance so it's just a recipe for disaster to see her in the awkward 'I'm pregnant but right now I just look chubby' phase- especially if we aren't telling her I'm pregnant.
2. MIL lives in a pretty congested COVID area and I would feel better if I were able to quarantine from our inner circle for the standard two weeks after a visit from her. Kicker is- we are planning a Covid-safe, family only baby shower for SIL almost exactly two weeks after I'm out of the first trimester. I'm not missing SIL's baby shower (that I'm helping to plan) for a visit with NPD MIL.

How would you guys approach this situation? What would be the least inflammatory way to put her off from this requested visit for nearly 2 months? Just saying that out loud makes me cringe with how poorly that will go over with her...

[Poison Ivy]

You have a young child, you're pregnant again, there is a pandemic, you don't like this person: You pick a date that works for you and don't budge.

[Thru the Rain]

"Hmmmmm, we'll think about it" sounds like a good response to have ready. As in "we'll think and think and think and it may take a reallllly long time for us to come up with a date". (Obviously you only say the first part out loud.  )

[Starboard Song]

How would you guys approach this situation? What would be the least inflammatory way to put her off from this requested visit for nearly 2 months? Just saying that out loud makes me cringe with how poorly that will go over with her...

I think we spend too many of our cycles going beyond the black and white of a PD's request, and focusing on their reaction, which is Their Stuff. She asked for dates; I'd politely give her dates that work for you. If that is a month out, two months out, or six months out, I'd just give her the dates matter-of-factly, and pour a little cheese on it: "sorry that we can't make it sooner!"

I'd be all like: "No worries. I can give you some dates that work for us. All of our planning takes into account other commitments and our concern that we remain very COVID responsible, so we may seem a little busier than we are. Let's see, we could visit in [whatever you think works for you]. I am sorry that is so far out. We all wish this pandemic were over sooner. Hope you're well!"

My boundary would be that no additional explanation or defense is available. "That's ridiculous! Three months away!! What are you trying to tell me?!?" Only that our planning takes into account other commitments and our concern that we remain very COVID responsible, so we may seem a little busier than we are. As I say, we are sorry it cannot be sooner, and we appreciate you understanding.

[Poison Ivy]

 

[all4peace]

I agree with SS. I'd add to your concern about protecting those around you, that you can be concerned about protecting YOU from COVID if she comes for a COVID ingested area.

And congratulations on doing so well for so long, and a new little one coming!

[Associate of Daniel]

Is "no thanks" an option?

AOD

[H_Allison]

Thank you for your responses! (SS I won't lie- probably be 'copying and pasting' that little gem you left there)

My initial response was short, didn't not acknowledge the probing questions, and mentioned that although DH would be coordinating the details with her, she should plan for some time in October for a visit. So far- radio silence. She is angry but trying to find out what she is allowed to be angry about. My prediction is that DH is going to get some guilt trip along with an interrogation in the next day or so. 

[Starboard Song]

She is angry but trying to find out what she is allowed to be angry about.

So perfectly stated!

[H_Allison]

Oooohhhh boy- the silent treatment is long on this one. I feel bad for DH- she's coming for him!!!
Does anyone else feel like the length of the brooding/silent treatment often correlates to the level of 'punishment' or retaliation? It's like the more time it takes her to come up with a counter move, the angrier she gets.

[Entj]

Contrats on the pregnancy! And glad to hear you have more peace now

That was a great little gem indeed. Well handled!

Indeed, there seems to be some correlation between how long the silent treatment lasts and how intensely they're lashing out. Used to annoy me and I'd spend that time getting more and more upset myself in the beginning, because I was waiting for the attack.

Take care!

[H_Allison]

Okay- so now I'm all caught up and spending way too much time thinking about this visit. It's been over a week that MIL sent her initial request and within that time, both DH and I have emailed her. I know she is mad that we aren't jumping to accommodate her the minute she decides to grace us with her presence. She's punishing us with the silent treatment and also by leaving us hanging without a plan. Just to be clear- I'm not wavering on the dates we have her at all.

So we said we would get together with her mid October. My usual m.o. when she does this is to just go about my business and just see if the logistics work out for the visit but don't make a point to hold dates for her until we get a confirmation. If she waits too long and we are no longer available, sorry about your luck MIL. So while I can do that in this instance, I am also started to get annoyed that we are facilitating this manipulation on her part. She KNOWS this is getting to me and I HATE that it's working. This is absolutely a form of control and manipulation on her part so I'm inclined to give a time limit to her silent treatment otherwise a visit is off. But on the other hand, I don't want to over manage the situation. Giving her no attention is often more effective than giving her 'negative' attention. However, if I just go about my business and see if the dates are still open when she decides to stop with the silent treatment, they probably will be open (thanks COVID). It's not like we have this busy social calendar which actually is usually the case sans COVID.

Here's my question- what would be considered effective NPD management here? Set a boundary on the silent treatment/bait and switch or not acknowledge her bad behavior?

I hope this makes sense. Also- should I start this in a new thread?

[Associate of Daniel]

My initial thought is to ignore the silent treatment.  Don't bring any attention to it and enjoy the silence while it lasts.

I'm a little confused. Did you give her some dates for a visit and give her a deadline by which she needed to respond?

If so, I suggest you send a reminder the day before the deadline. If she doesn't respond, go ahead and make other plans for the dates.

Suggested activities:  Zoom playdates for the kids, zoom meetings for work, a working bee at your house.

AOD

[H_Allison]

Sorry AOD- I should have clarified. We didn't give her a deadline to respond. That was a total oversight in our part. Usually we are busy enough to not incentivize the silent treatment. This time COVID is kind of calling our bluff.

Plus in her initial request, she was just oozing with "how much she missed DD and wanted to spend time with her"...🙄 Oh yeah... we can tell....

[Starboard Song]

Here's my question- what would be considered effective NPD management here? Set a boundary on the silent treatment/bait and switch or not acknowledge her bad behavior?

I hope this makes sense. Also- should I start this in a new thread?

(No need to start a new thread. This is a reasonable continuance of the same issue. Thanks for asking, though.)

When we are naive and in the FOG, we hang on every word from a PD person. When they ignore us, when they don't email or call in petulance, we worry over what we should do, and feel guilt for having made them angry, and feel an obligation to fix it. In such a case, they are manipulating us and controlling us. You are exactly right. But you are very close to a very different experience: the Silent Treat.

You are feeling annoyed that you two are "facilitating this" because "this is a form of control and manipulation." Take a moment to recalculate status, because I am not sure that is quite true.

You aren't behaving like the old you, and neither is DH. Something very new is going on here. First, there is no manipulation occurring at all: you are not letting yourself be manipulated. At most we have a completely failed attempt, like an attempted burglary that isn't even at the right house. If she waits too long and misses her chance, so be it. If that chance is still available, that's what you signed up for. If she blows a gasket over logistics, you'll calmly tell her your calendar has changed, and "gosh, that's a shame," and offer to see her in early December.

What isn't happening? You aren't grovelling. You aren't leaving messages or offering new dates. You aren't apologizing for your own needs or standards. This is a new you, and you won't be manipulated.

In her mind, I get it. You know what she thinks she is doing. You see her up to her old tricks. You know that over there in her head she's doing what always worked. And if I were you, for I have been in your shoes (still am, really, on some days), I'd be feeling that old injustice meter redlining. It does that, though, only when I -- or you -- when we transport ourselves away over to them, to their side of the looking glass, and think about what they are doing, and why, and how often it works, and for how long it hurt us.

I propose you join me and stop doing that. Stop transporting yourself to her mind to think about her intentions and schemes.

As a functional matter, you've told her a date she may visit. If she visits on that date, you're cool with that. If it doesn't work out, you are cool with that, too. She is not contacting you to arrange details: totally cool. She is an absence and a vaccuum in your life, and that's cool. I know that you know that she knows that this is meant to be the old Silent Treatment. She thinks you'll fear you've really done it this time and and your FOG meter will climb and she'll get what she wants. But set all of that aside because you and DH won't let it be true.

This -- this refusal to transport ourselves to their heads, this calm confidence that we are doing right, this serenity that we are glad to have them a bit further away, this is a new species of failed manipulation, and you are in control: the Silent Treat.

I would allow her to remain silent for any period of years if it pleases her. When she does call to arrange things, if it works, let it work, and if it doesn't you are simply back at the top of this thread, and can offer a date that suits.

I don't mean to be flippant about how hard this world view is: I mean to be inspiring. It is a great, better world to be in, Out of the FOG (mostly).

[H_Allison]

Oh. My. God.

SS this is exactly what I needed to hear!!!! Thank you so much for reframing this for me!!!! I am probably going to have to reread this every so often as her silent treatment continues, but this is exactly what I needed to hear to both reassure myself that I wasn't setting a trap for myself and also reenforcing boundaries with MIL.

It's funny how 'enforcing boundaries' with toxic family members evolves over time. The transition from active to passive is tough and almost makes me need to reframe everything if that makes sense. The cat and mouse game up to this point has been almost a means to an end, and now that we are on the other side of that dynamic, I have to remind myself what the goals of the game were in the first place. We were never going to get MIL to think or feel like a normal person, it was all to facilitate peace and stability in my FOC. Now that I have that without nearly as much active management, I need to be done with the game. I hope all of this makes sense. I'm literally kind of writing as this is coming to me, maybe I'll explain better with some time to think and process, but this just feels so much like an epiphany for me!

Thank you, SS!!! This is just what I needed!

[Starboard Song]

I have to remind myself what the goals of the game were in the first place. We were never going to get MIL to think or feel like a normal person, it was all to facilitate peace and stability in my FOC. Now that I have that without nearly as much active management, I need to be done with the game.

Oh. My. God. So good!

Read your own words again. Read it out loud! Put it to music!

You wrote it perfectly. That is exactly right.

[Seven]

Oh. My. God.

SS this is exactly what I needed to hear!!!! Thank you so much for reframing this for me!!!! I am probably going to have to reread this every so often as her silent treatment continues, but this is exactly what I needed to hear to both reassure myself that I wasn't setting a trap for myself and also reenforcing boundaries with MIL.

It's funny how 'enforcing boundaries' with toxic family members evolves over time. The transition from active to passive is tough and almost makes me need to reframe everything if that makes sense. The cat and mouse game up to this point has been almost a means to an end, and now that we are on the other side of that dynamic, I have to remind myself what the goals of the game were in the first place. We were never going to get MIL to think or feel like a normal person, it was all to facilitate peace and stability in my FOC. Now that I have that without nearly as much active management, I need to be done with the game. I hope all of this makes sense. I'm literally kind of writing as this is coming to me, maybe I'll explain better with some time to think and process, but this just feels so much like an epiphany for me!

Thank you, SS!!! This is just what I needed!

As my side quote says "the only winning move is not to play" -Joshua (War Games)