Its all kicked off tonight

Started by p123, August 20, 2020, 03:28:21 PM

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p123

Im pretty much at my wits end now after tonights visit.....

GC brother is trying ANOTHER scam where hes unavailable. He does this because he think it forces me to step up.
Dad was all "woe is me I'm so ill" Hes not. Then when I admitted that GC brother and I dont speak because of what he does, hes off "woe is me" because of this.

Dad has fallen for the brother scam and wants me to take him out at weekends. In all honesty, with all thats going on with my own family its not easy. Im just so annoyed to be forced into it.
I'll be ending up getting divorced if I give in now - wife will be batty. Dad even said "bring daughter with you" when I said wife works weekends. WOW. Hes completely uninterested in her normally but he wants me to drag a 7 year old along in the car just so I can take him for a ride.

I pointed out hes not ill, he can look after himself and to stop feeling sorry for himself. I've had enough. I told him my brother and I disagree and I cannot be botjhered to get into an argument about it.

Honestly, they're ramping things up again - my mental health is suffering a lot at the moment.

I honestly have dreams that I never have to see either of them again.....

WomanInterrupted

I understand - and it really IS enough to drive you round the bend!  :stars:

Firs t- please *breathe.*  :yes:

Put your oxygen mask on.  That's what it's there for.  You can't help anybody - especially yourself - if you don't take care of yourself and put your oxygen mask on *first.*   8-)

Second - who CARES what your dad wants and your brother wants!?  They don't care what you can and can't do, and are trying to *force* you into a role you're not comfortable with, so it's time to man up and say,
"Enough!"

"NO" is a complete sentence.

Dad wants you to drive him around?

"No."  :ninja:

"Whyyyyyy?"

"I just told you, I can't."  :ninja:

Repeat as often as needed and remember *you call all the shots!*  :yes:

You really do!  That's why the two of them are so damned insistent that you  MUST come when called.

They don't want you to realize that ultimately, you're the one with all the power - and if you say no, that's IT.

Dad wants you to come every weekend?

"No, dad.  I can't."  :ninja:

"Whyyyyyyyy???????"

"I just told you, I can't.  You'll have to figure out something else."  :ninja:

You don't want to call twice a week?

Don't!   :yes:

Call ONCE!  Call once every 10 days or two weeks - whatever YOU are comfortable with - and if they don't like it, that's just too damned bad.

If your father forces the issue - blows up your phone - block him until the next time you WANT to call.

It really can be that easy if we *allow* it to be.

Remember - you  really DO have all the power.  8-)

:hug:

lkdrymom

She is right, you do have all the power.  Next time instead of saying you 'can't"...what would happen if you said "I don't want to ".  "No Dad, I don't want to spend my weekend driving you around".

My father tried a lot of these tactics on me.  Sometimes he 'won' but most of the time I held firm and refused to jump when he called.   You do know you don't have to answer every call.  If it was serious the hospital would call you.

Decide what you are willing to do.  A visit after work for 2 hours once every other week.  Maybe a 20 minute phone call once a week.  And that is it.

My father used to try everything he could to get me to take him to his doctor appointments. The last thing on earth I wanted to do was sit through an appointment.  I offered a compromise.  He takes a cab to the appointment  set around the time I get off work. I would pick him up from his appointment and get him home.  No he had the brilliant idea that he should make the appointment for AFTER I got off of work so I could take him and bring him home....and he presented this to me like he was doing me the favor of letting me take him to the doctor !  I told him straight up I didn't want to sit through his doctor appointments.  I had logged in so many hours in the ER for that man I was just done at this point.

nanotech

#3
Wrote a long post then my phone died!
I've had a glass of Prosecco ( only one!) and feeling sleepy and probably will be snoring soon,  so I'm just going to write this-
I agree with WI and lkdrymom!
Everything they said is spot on!
All you have to do is
BE THE WALL, BE STRONG.
Don't respond to the FOG.
You are busy with your family at the weekend. End of!

Just to add, not fair on your wife or your daughter to do that to them each weekend.
Remember that if calls with him get difficult you can say bye and end the call. If he rings back you do NOT have to pick up. It doesn't matter that he knows you are in. You are completely entitled to be busy doing other things. Stop letting him rule your life. He seems to be in charge of you, and that has to stop.
Letting the phone ring is a new skill I've learned.
Boundaries are everything. So is your family of choice. Your PD dad comes miles after them. He's lucky he gets a visit at all in my view.
You have a HUMAN RIGHT not to talk to your brother. If dad questions it, be assertive.
' I can understand you might feel like that dad but I'm not talking to him, and that's simply the end of that discussion.'
No need to give any reason. They use reasons against us. It's up to you whether you speak to brother or not. UP TO YOU. You don't have to 'report in'to your dad about your relationship with your brother.

p123

Quote from: WomanInterrupted on August 20, 2020, 04:33:45 PM
I understand - and it really IS enough to drive you round the bend!  :stars:

Firs t- please *breathe.*  :yes:

Put your oxygen mask on.  That's what it's there for.  You can't help anybody - especially yourself - if you don't take care of yourself and put your oxygen mask on *first.*   8-)

Second - who CARES what your dad wants and your brother wants!?  They don't care what you can and can't do, and are trying to *force* you into a role you're not comfortable with, so it's time to man up and say,
"Enough!"

"NO" is a complete sentence.

Dad wants you to drive him around?

"No."  :ninja:

"Whyyyyyy?"

"I just told you, I can't."  :ninja:

Repeat as often as needed and remember *you call all the shots!*  :yes:

You really do!  That's why the two of them are so damned insistent that you  MUST come when called.

They don't want you to realize that ultimately, you're the one with all the power - and if you say no, that's IT.

Dad wants you to come every weekend?

"No, dad.  I can't."  :ninja:

"Whyyyyyyyy???????"

"I just told you, I can't.  You'll have to figure out something else."  :ninja:

You don't want to call twice a week?

Don't!   :yes:

Call ONCE!  Call once every 10 days or two weeks - whatever YOU are comfortable with - and if they don't like it, that's just too damned bad.

If your father forces the issue - blows up your phone - block him until the next time you WANT to call.

It really can be that easy if we *allow* it to be.

Remember - you  really DO have all the power.  8-)

:hug:

I know, I know, I know.

This is the bit I find hard - just saying no.

p123

Quote from: nanotech on August 20, 2020, 05:53:21 PM
Wrote a long post then my phone died!
I've had a glass of Prosecco ( only one!) and feeling sleepy and probably will be snoring soon,  so I'm just going to write this-
I agree with WI and lkdrymom!
Everything they said is spot on!
All you have to do is
BE THE WALL, BE STRONG.
Don't respond to the FOG.
You are busy with your family at the weekend. End of!

Just to add, not fair on your wife or your daughter to do that to them each weekend.
Remember that if calls with him get difficult you can say bye and end the call. If he rings back you do NOT have to pick up. It doesn't matter that he knows you are in. You are completely entitled to be busy doing other things. Stop letting him rule your life. He seems to be in charge of you, and that has to stop.
Letting the phone ring is a new skill I've learned.
Boundaries are everything. So is your family of choice. Your PD dad comes miles after them. He's lucky he gets a visit at all in my view.
You have a HUMAN RIGHT not to talk to your brother. If dad questions it, be assertive.
' I can understand you might feel like that dad but I'm not talking to him, and that's simply the end of that discussion.'
No need to give any reason. They use reasons against us. It's up to you whether you speak to brother or not. UP TO YOU. You don't have to 'report in'to your dad about your relationship with your brother.

Well, wifes new job means she works 6 weekends out of 8. I dont want to waste half a day of the weekends we have together ferrying him around.

He actually said as well "bring x with you then and we can go out for a ride". This is my 7 year old who in the past has hes moaned I brought her. Jeez.
I've done this in the past, took them both to a country park where theres a playground. He literally lets her play for 5 mins then wants to go home. In the past, I've left him sit in the car for 30 mins sulking and hes moaning he want to go home now.

I said NO. 7 year olds do not want to sit in the car for an hour driving around - its boring. He doesnt care of course.
Ended with me saying I'm not talking to brother - END OF. Not his decision its mine and he does not get involved. I will take him out IF I can but hes got to understand I've got other things on.

p123

Quote from: lkdrymom on August 20, 2020, 05:35:15 PM
She is right, you do have all the power.  Next time instead of saying you 'can't"...what would happen if you said "I don't want to ".  "No Dad, I don't want to spend my weekend driving you around".

My father tried a lot of these tactics on me.  Sometimes he 'won' but most of the time I held firm and refused to jump when he called.   You do know you don't have to answer every call.  If it was serious the hospital would call you.

Decide what you are willing to do.  A visit after work for 2 hours once every other week.  Maybe a 20 minute phone call once a week.  And that is it.

My father used to try everything he could to get me to take him to his doctor appointments. The last thing on earth I wanted to do was sit through an appointment.  I offered a compromise.  He takes a cab to the appointment  set around the time I get off work. I would pick him up from his appointment and get him home.  No he had the brilliant idea that he should make the appointment for AFTER I got off of work so I could take him and bring him home....and he presented this to me like he was doing me the favor of letting me take him to the doctor !  I told him straight up I didn't want to sit through his doctor appointments.  I had logged in so many hours in the ER for that man I was just done at this point.

Its just a CONSTANT battle thats wearing me down at the moment....

p123

Quote from: WomanInterrupted on August 20, 2020, 04:33:45 PM
I understand - and it really IS enough to drive you round the bend!  :stars:

Firs t- please *breathe.*  :yes:

Put your oxygen mask on.  That's what it's there for.  You can't help anybody - especially yourself - if you don't take care of yourself and put your oxygen mask on *first.*   8-)

Second - who CARES what your dad wants and your brother wants!?  They don't care what you can and can't do, and are trying to *force* you into a role you're not comfortable with, so it's time to man up and say,
"Enough!"

"NO" is a complete sentence.

Dad wants you to drive him around?

"No."  :ninja:

"Whyyyyyy?"

"I just told you, I can't."  :ninja:

Repeat as often as needed and remember *you call all the shots!*  :yes:

You really do!  That's why the two of them are so damned insistent that you  MUST come when called.

They don't want you to realize that ultimately, you're the one with all the power - and if you say no, that's IT.

Dad wants you to come every weekend?

"No, dad.  I can't."  :ninja:

"Whyyyyyyyy???????"

"I just told you, I can't.  You'll have to figure out something else."  :ninja:

You don't want to call twice a week?

Don't!   :yes:

Call ONCE!  Call once every 10 days or two weeks - whatever YOU are comfortable with - and if they don't like it, that's just too damned bad.

If your father forces the issue - blows up your phone - block him until the next time you WANT to call.

It really can be that easy if we *allow* it to be.

Remember - you  really DO have all the power.  8-)

:hug:

Wish I could be like you :-((((((

I find it hard....

GettingOOTF

Your brother is entitled to be unavailable to your father just as you are. He’s not obligated to be there for your father because he made different life choices and you wish to step away.

Your brother wanting to step away is not a scam. He likely shares your frustrations. You say it’s a scam to get you to step up, but isn’t that exactly what you are doing to him? Are you valuing his time and happiness as less than yours because he hasn’t found the financial success you have and he battles with his own family relationships?  Growing up with a Pd parent has a life-long impact and it takes work and effort to break free. Not everyone can do that work. In many ways GC have it worse.

Your brother may very well be struggling with the same things you are in trying to get some space for his own life. From what you have shared here it seems like he was very negatively impacted by his upbringing and it struggling to find his way. I now that my GC sister has struggled more than I have as she never has the chance to figure out who she is separate from my father. She also relies on him financially.

It took me many years to realize that my problems weren’t the fault of others. Your brother’s choices are not the reason you are in this situation.

I know it’s probably easier to step away from your father knowing your bother is there in your place but it’s not his responsibility to step in for you regardless of how you value his life choices and time.

My life became much simpler and happier once I started looking inward and doing the hard things I was avoiding. They say nothing changes if nothing changes. The only way you are going to change anything in your life is by making a hard choice.

I found therapy very helpful. I also read everything I could on Codependency. One of the biggest turning points for me was realizing that my situation was a choice. It felt like it wasn’t as I didn’t like the choices I had. Once I accepted there was no easy path I was able to take some steps to build the life I wanted.

lkdrymom

Quote from: p123 on August 21, 2020, 04:20:44 AM
Quote from: lkdrymom on August 20, 2020, 05:35:15 PM
She is right, you do have all the power.  Next time instead of saying you 'can't"...what would happen if you said "I don't want to ".  "No Dad, I don't want to spend my weekend driving you around".

My father tried a lot of these tactics on me.  Sometimes he 'won' but most of the time I held firm and refused to jump when he called.   You do know you don't have to answer every call.  If it was serious the hospital would call you.

Decide what you are willing to do.  A visit after work for 2 hours once every other week.  Maybe a 20 minute phone call once a week.  And that is it.

My father used to try everything he could to get me to take him to his doctor appointments. The last thing on earth I wanted to do was sit through an appointment.  I offered a compromise.  He takes a cab to the appointment  set around the time I get off work. I would pick him up from his appointment and get him home.  No he had the brilliant idea that he should make the appointment for AFTER I got off of work so I could take him and bring him home....and he presented this to me like he was doing me the favor of letting me take him to the doctor !  I told him straight up I didn't want to sit through his doctor appointments.  I had logged in so many hours in the ER for that man I was just done at this point.

Its just a CONSTANT battle thats wearing me down at the moment....

I know.  It is like a child begging for every toy in the store.  They won't let up.  The thing is we usually have no problems saying NO to our kids.....but our parents we have been conditioned that we can't say NO.  You have to remember you are an adult and your Dad does not get to dictate your life anymore.  I found the best way to deal with this is to get mad about something he did.  You will have less guilt saying NO.

Adrianna

Someone told me a while ago, after I explained the guilt and awful feelings of not living up to their expectations, and being continually abused:

"What if you get to a point where you don't give a shit what they think?"

Sounded absurd at the time. Simplistic. Almost insulting. However guess what? It's the answer.

You need to make choices that work for YOU. Why care what either of them think? They don't care about what you think! Why are you giving them that control over your emotions, your well-being and your schedule.

You're in the thick of it right now. You're feeling the anger stage and realizing that you've been manipulated, guilted, shamed and quite frankly taken advantage of. You're on the verge of a new part of the process.

Your father thinks you're a lousy son?
Oh well.

Your brother thinks you're a slacker who needs to more for your father?
Oh well.

My grandmother thinks I'm an awful granddaughter, my father thinks I don't care about him and tells everyone in town that I think he's an asshole. Does it feel good knowing this? No, however I know the truth and I know that continued contact with them is damaging to my well-being.

Your well-being is being damaged. It's time to stop caring what they think and set some hard boundaries.

What your father does to you is, in my opinion, harassment.
Practice an attitude of gratitude.

SunnyMeadow

Quote from: GettingOOTF on August 21, 2020, 05:32:42 AM
Your brother is entitled to be unavailable to your father just as you are. He's not obligated to be there for your father because he made different life choices and you wish to step away.

Your brother wanting to step away is not a scam. He likely shares your frustrations. You say it's a scam to get you to step up, but isn't that exactly what you are doing to him? Are you valuing his time and happiness as less than yours because he hasn't found the financial success you have and he battles with his own family relationships?  Growing up with a Pd parent has a life-long impact and it takes work and effort to break free. Not everyone can do that work. In many ways GC have it worse.

Your brother may very well be struggling with the same things you are in trying to get some space for his own life. From what you have shared here it seems like he was very negatively impacted by his upbringing and it struggling to find his way. I now that my GC sister has struggled more than I have as she never has the chance to figure out who she is separate from my father. She also relies on him financially.

It took me many years to realize that my problems weren't the fault of others. Your brother's choices are not the reason you are in this situation.

I know it's probably easier to step away from your father knowing your bother is there in your place but it's not his responsibility to step in for you regardless of how you value his life choices and time.

My life became much simpler and happier once I started looking inward and doing the hard things I was avoiding. They say nothing changes if nothing changes. The only way you are going to change anything in your life is by making a hard choice.

I found therapy very helpful. I also read everything I could on Codependency. One of the biggest turning points for me was realizing that my situation was a choice. It felt like it wasn't as I didn't like the choices I had. Once I accepted there was no easy path I was able to take some steps to build the life I wanted.

Very good advice here. Good post.

wisingup

p123 - it sounds like you have come to a point where you must choose which relationships to nurture - your dad, or your wife & child.  I implore you to choose your wife & child.  Yes, the first few "No"s to dad will be terrifying.  They just will.  But those No's will pay dividends for the rest of your life.  Please choose your wife & child.

p123

Quote from: GettingOOTF on August 21, 2020, 05:32:42 AM
Your brother is entitled to be unavailable to your father just as you are. He's not obligated to be there for your father because he made different life choices and you wish to step away.

Your brother wanting to step away is not a scam. He likely shares your frustrations. You say it's a scam to get you to step up, but isn't that exactly what you are doing to him? Are you valuing his time and happiness as less than yours because he hasn't found the financial success you have and he battles with his own family relationships?  Growing up with a Pd parent has a life-long impact and it takes work and effort to break free. Not everyone can do that work. In many ways GC have it worse.

Your brother may very well be struggling with the same things you are in trying to get some space for his own life. From what you have shared here it seems like he was very negatively impacted by his upbringing and it struggling to find his way. I now that my GC sister has struggled more than I have as she never has the chance to figure out who she is separate from my father. She also relies on him financially.

It took me many years to realize that my problems weren't the fault of others. Your brother's choices are not the reason you are in this situation.

I know it's probably easier to step away from your father knowing your bother is there in your place but it's not his responsibility to step in for you regardless of how you value his life choices and time.

My life became much simpler and happier once I started looking inward and doing the hard things I was avoiding. They say nothing changes if nothing changes. The only way you are going to change anything in your life is by making a hard choice.

I found therapy very helpful. I also read everything I could on Codependency. One of the biggest turning points for me was realizing that my situation was a choice. It felt like it wasn't as I didn't like the choices I had. Once I accepted there was no easy path I was able to take some steps to build the life I wanted.

Respectfully I disagree about my brother....

We've had conversations in the past where we discussed the exact same things.  We've both got different circumstances so I suggested we both did what we can for Dad. He disagreed strongly and said my family situation is not his problem and I need to do as much as him. I told him that if he has family stuff also then he should do that too and not let Dad dictate.


This is where we started to fall out. He'd then send me a rota with my wifes name on as well to visit Dad. (He said my wife had to "step up" too). I told him I couldnt do it. Then he started things like "I'm away saturday, you'll HAVE to visit Dad". Again I said No I can't do. He did this a few times and then he posted on facebook something which proved that what he's said was a lie.

Then we stopped talking. Since then hes tried via Dad. For instance, yesterday hes told Dad that hes got work on for next few weekends and suggested to Dad that I can do it in his place... Great eh?
So I've no reason to think this is not just another attempt.

Of course, Dad is convinced he needs someone to do everything for him. So hes quite happy for brother to molly coddle him and expect "someone" to be there all the time.
If Dad NEEDED anything I'd do it. He doesnt NEED anything but WANTS a lot.

p123

Quote from: Adrianna on August 21, 2020, 06:32:41 AM
Someone told me a while ago, after I explained the guilt and awful feelings of not living up to their expectations, and being continually abused:

"What if you get to a point where you don't give a shit what they think?"

Sounded absurd at the time. Simplistic. Almost insulting. However guess what? It's the answer.

You need to make choices that work for YOU. Why care what either of them think? They don't care about what you think! Why are you giving them that control over your emotions, your well-being and your schedule.

You're in the thick of it right now. You're feeling the anger stage and realizing that you've been manipulated, guilted, shamed and quite frankly taken advantage of. You're on the verge of a new part of the process.

Your father thinks you're a lousy son?
Oh well.

Your brother thinks you're a slacker who needs to more for your father?
Oh well.

My grandmother thinks I'm an awful granddaughter, my father thinks I don't care about him and tells everyone in town that I think he's an asshole. Does it feel good knowing this? No, however I know the truth and I know that continued contact with them is damaging to my well-being.

Your well-being is being damaged. It's time to stop caring what they think and set some hard boundaries.

What your father does to you is, in my opinion, harassment.

At the moment, I dont care what either of them think, and yes it is harrassment.

I still cannot, face to face, just say NO though.... :-(

p123

Quote from: wisingup on August 21, 2020, 08:35:42 AM
p123 - it sounds like you have come to a point where you must choose which relationships to nurture - your dad, or your wife & child.  I implore you to choose your wife & child.  Yes, the first few "No"s to dad will be terrifying.  They just will.  But those No's will pay dividends for the rest of your life.  Please choose your wife & child.

Oh I plan to make that choice. And I have. Hes hanging on in there at the moment and I'm bad at saying No.

Andeza

Hey p123, could you help us understand your thought process around saying no? How does it make you feel, where do you get stuck, etc?
Remember, that there are no real deadlines for life, just society's pressures.      - Anonymous
Lasting happiness is not something we find, but rather something we make for ourselves.

Poison Ivy

p123, your father occupies a huge amount of space in your brain. Only you can evict him.

p123

Quote from: Andeza on August 21, 2020, 09:23:29 AM
Hey p123, could you help us understand your thought process around saying no? How does it make you feel, where do you get stuck, etc?

Its difficult to say. He'll say something and I just feel obliged to justify it.....

If I say no, he'll launch into "why? what are you doing?"

I guess deep down I know a straight no will upset him so its easier to make some excuse up.

Andeza

So obligation is still factoring heavily in your decision making process. In addition, you said you're afraid he'll be upset. What part of him being upset concerns you? Is it the child within that remembers how scary it is when dad gets angry and demanding, or is it something else?
Remember, that there are no real deadlines for life, just society's pressures.      - Anonymous
Lasting happiness is not something we find, but rather something we make for ourselves.