Can't find the right balance between kids and their dad

[DazedDaisies]

Hi everyone. I'm new here and just recently learned about FOG. My therapist doesn't think my ex is a narcissist but just a very selfish person with narcissistic traits. But after our most recent interaction, I don't know anymore. A little backstory: we were married for 14 years and have three kids together. He left us for another woman and pretty much ignored the kids until they broke up then will occasionally pop up in there life here and there.

My ex wants to come down next weekend to stay at the house and visit the kids. I know this sounds weird, but this is our usual arrangement when he sees them once or twice a year. Plus he still co-owns the house, so I feel like I should let him stay. While this is not ideal for me because I have to find somewhere else to stay, it's what worked for him and the kids.

However, last visit during the holidays things didn't go too well. Basically he threw a huge temper tantrum (not violent). He blamed the kids for an accident that was mostly his fault. This caused the kids to get upset and some of them to cry (no screaming, shouting, or talking, just crying). I know this because my daughter called me up, and I rushed home. The kids crying upset him, and he said that he was just going to go home early (2 days before Christmas) because nobody wanted him there, this trip was a bad mistake, he never should have come, etc. He continued to throw a hissy fit, so I ended up taking the kids away for the night so he could calm down. Anyways, that incident was the final straw for our daughter and she wanted nothing to do with him. Our sons' relationships are wary at best, but the oldest (19 now) does still try to have a relationship with his dad.

Now that some time has passed, ex feels like he wants to come down to make things better and repair the relationship. He said he wants to work on being a dad. I talked to the kids separately to get their thoughts about seeing their dad. Our daughter still wants nothing to do with him. She doesn't even call him "dad" anymore, but his first name instead. Our oldest would like to see him but only for a short amount of time. The youngest just really doesn't care either way.

After hearing this, I decided to put boundaries up for my daughter and told my ex that right now is not a good time to stay at the house because of what happened last time. I said there was a lot of damage, and our daughter was not feeling comfortable being around him, and other children have some mixed feelings. But, the oldest would like to see him.

I gave him options such as paying for half of hotel costs, and he can come visit the boys at the house while daughter and I go somewhere else for a bit, so he can spend time with them alone. I also suggested our oldest can go up and visit him. I did tell him our daughter was open to family therapy though (she already does individual therapy), so maybe that is a start to repair the relationship. He did not take these options too well and said never mind, he was not going to see the kids anymore because of all the "rules, stipulations, and bullshit". Then he went on to say moving forward, he's not going to see the kids anymore. And also if he's not around, then there will be no damage to the kids and problem solved.

I told him what i thought in a non-heated way but he's disappeared again. Now I'm feeling guilty as hell that the boys won't be able to see their dad anymore. And I'm kind of scared he's going to commit suicide or do something stupid because he can't see the kids. Part of me thinks maybe I should have just let him stay at the house and find somewhere else for me and my daughter, but because of covid I have no idea where unless we stay at a hotel. And at the same time too, I feel like it's not fair! It feels like our daughter is getting kicked out of the house. But the oldest would like to see his dad too. He acknowledges his dad and his faults but he still misses him. I don't know how to appease everybody. Either way someone is going to get hurt, and I feel like I'm carrying the whole burden trying to make it work.

[Medowynd]

Your ex is a big boy and can come and pick up his sons, like divorced parents do every single day.  You are in the fog here and letting the ex dictate what happens in your home.  Your daughter's claims are far superior to any claim that the ex makes.  If the ex threatens suicide, call the police and let the professionals handle him.  Since your oldest son is legally an adult, he can also take the steps to see his father anywhere else.  Perhaps he could take your younger son with him.  For your daughter's sake, this is the best option.

[DazedDaisies]

Thank you for your response, Medowynd. I can't help feel really guilty and I'm trying to tell myself that it really isn't my fault and he's making his own decisions, but for some reason it's not getting through my head completely. This and some other recent behavior have caught me off guard, and I don't know where to even begin trying to sort my head out. I do have a therapist appointment but it's not until awhile and tbh I have spiraled into a deep depression.

[Penny Lane]

Hi DazedDaisies, I'm glad you're here! It sounds like you're in the right place.

From what you've said here, you've done an incredible job of facilitating your kids' relationship with your ex. You have been kinder and more accommodating than probably 99% of people would have been. It is a testament to your love for your children that you've put up with getting kicked out of your own house for periods of time so they can see their dad.

You've done everything right and truly gone above and beyond.

Here is the very sad thing, that everyone on this forum has to realize at some point: You cannot fix the bad behavior of the other parent. There is no magical set of words that will suddenly inspire your ex to be a good dad who doesn't make his kids cry and then throw a temper tantrum. Your daughter doesn't want to see her dad, for good reason, and because of his own actions.

It sounds like all your kids are about teenagers? I would say that at this point your job is to give them and your ex the ability to have the relationship that each side wants to have, and then step out of it. By that I mean, if your kids want to see your ex, and he wants to see them, you don't refuse to let him visit. Conversely, if your kids don't want to see your ex, you don't force them to out of a sense of obligation (unless there's a court order that requires it).

Your sons want to see your ex. You have given him options for seeing them. He doesn't want to see them, or at least he doesn't want to see them without having the opportunity to control you and your daughter as well. That's not on you. That's a choice he's making, and it's sad for your boys and sad for him. But ultimately he gets to decide that he wants to be a bad dad. You can't really do anything about that.

Here is what you can do: Help your older son understand that his dad has limitations and they are not his fault. Enable your son to contact his dad on his own. He's old enough that if he wants to he could go visit his dad. Or he could make arrangements to see him somewhere else, for a little while. Let him know that he has options, then again, get out of the way and let him develop his own relationship with his dad. And be there to comfort him if (as I suspect) his dad continues to let him down, without you there as a buffer.

Your daughter doesn't want to see her dad. It doesn't seem like he's making a very big effort to see her. So, there's not really a problem there.

I'm sorry your children have to deal with him as a father. They are very lucky to have you as a mother. I hope you are able to let go of this guilt. You don't owe him very much, and you've more than delivered. You do owe your kids a good upbringing, and you've more than delivered on that as well.

[DazedDaisies]

Thank you so much for your post and advice, Penny Lane! It has given me some things to think about. Yes, my children are teenagers. And you're right that the oldest is old enough to have a relationship with his dad. They do text each other, so if they want to make plans with each other they can do that.

I think you are right about the controlling part because I did suggest our oldest visiting and staying in his apartment and maybe driving the youngest, but he said there's no room for them anymore since he turned the extra bedroom into his office. When I asked if he could just work outside of the room instead, it turned into a another excuse then a rant about how much his apartment sucks. So I just dropped it. It feels like the only way he'll see the kids is if he stays at the house and I think he's using that as manipulation.

I really appreciate you and the other members offering support. I know this stuff should be clear as day to outsiders but I do feel a bit disoriented while being in the middle of it.

[athene1399]

DazedDasies,

I feel you have done nothing wrong by trying to enforce boundaries with your ex. I think it's not a bit ask for you to say "I don't want you coming to the house to visit, you need to find your own place". Maybe he should have considered where his kids would stay before creating an office. That is not your problem and it's also not permanent as he can change the office back into a bedroom whenever he wants. He's an adult, he can figure it out. This is not your fault. You can't control how your ex acts or reacts.

IME BPD BM often would thrown temper tantrums to get her way. I think (and this is a total guess as I cant' know for sure) it's how she learned she can get her way with people. It works until it doesn't anymore. Boundaries are important but can be very stressful when your first try to implement them. It's not easy to have to deal with a PD ex. I am sorry you are going through this.