How to Have a F*** It Attitude With an NPD Parent

[waterfalls]

My mother is an NPD. I know and understands how she operates. She is such a narcissist that she doesn't even realize she's being rude or hurtful (ex. on the phone, she asks me how I'm doing and as I start telling her, she starts talking to my dad and bosses him around, so I have to wait until she's done). I moved 3 time zones away to get some peace from her; the main contact is the phone. I feel obligated to call her everyday because she is now sickly and because my family is European (think "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" and you have a good idea how my family operates).

I've been trying very hard to have a f*** it attitude, but it's difficult when your mother and other relatives keep pulling you in, forcing you to give a d*** and making you feel guilty when you don't. If I don't call everyday to check up on my mother, I'm going to be the bad daughter who doesn't care how my sickly mother is doing. It's going to make my already delicate relationship with her even worse. Going no contact, even for a few days, is not an option for me.

So, how to have a f*** it attitude? Should I just get on the phone, let her talk, then get off the phone and say to myself the heck with her? Let her stew in her own misery? How do I just stop caring (I sometimes wonder why I even do care)? How do I turn off my feelings? Should I just say to myself that it's her life, her issues, and I'm not responsible for all of that? There's nothing I can do to help her health, her attitude, or whatever else?

I'm sure a number of you have been or are on my road. How do you manage? How do you "be the duck" and let all the polluted water roll off you and not bother you, not ruin your day or peace of mind?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Lookin 2 B Free]

Hi, Waterfalls.  This reminds me of last year when I couldn't stand listening to a lot of my mom's conversations.  I'd actually take the phone away from my ear so I couldn't hear most of what she was saying. 

Now, I space my calls.  She's going downhill and I know some people believe I should call everyday to be a good daughter.  I think that's where the "I don't care" attitude came in handy.  I don't let their judgements of me determine how often I contact my mom.  They don't know the horrors.  So I figure I can decide for myself what works for me, and if they think badly of me?  F*** it, as you say.

[Happypants]

How to stop caring - that's the crux of the whole issue for me personally, but on the other hand i don't want to stop caring 

The real epiphany for me was looking back over the years of me pandering, supplicating, minimising and invalidating myself and my feelings and staying in the scapegoat role they needed me to be in - did those behaviours result in me being seen as a good daughter/sister/person? Nope! It fed their desire for supply from me, and i always gave it, and in fact each time i did i got further and further away from my then sad goal of being accepted on a neutral basis.  They'll never change, so in the meantime i try to live my life - less frequent phone calls, a time limit, awareness of background mental chatter, etc. It doesn't always work but but i feel like they've got less influence over my emotions and I'm spending more time enjoying the here and now and looking ahead rather than going over the past.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I relate too. I never called daily, more like weekly. But it was always them them them and I was never able to talk about myself in any meaningful way. I started noticing that, and determined I would talk about my life as much as they talked about theirs. And I would match the general subjects. If my mother complained about how overwhelmed she was with work, I would listen and say something yes I have felt swamped lately too, the housework and homeschooling have really gotten on top of me. That opened me up to invalidation city. It was unreal. Well I chose to make life hard for myself, I have only myself to blame for that. SHE has to work unlike some people. And on and on. My attempts to relate on an equal basis were blown up at me, every time with her. With my sisters and father they simply didn’t listen at all.

I think the point where I got that “fuck it” attitude was when I was talking to my sister about my garden. I love gardening. I was just thinking that I had never actually talked to any of my family about this and how nice it was. I asked her a question at this point and no answer. I hadn’t been going on and on in a monologue. But she wasn’t listening at all! She was on the computer but saying, “Mmhm,” periodically.

So yeah it took me consciously trying to “change the steps to the dance” as my first T would say, and experience their unwillingness to treat me with anything remotely close to respect.

Spoiler alert: It ended in NC all around, although that was not my goal.

I suggest you take a good look at your goals. Why is taking a break for a few days even not an option for you? What would be best for YOU? Because you’re already seeing that your wellness isn’t important to your big fat family, it has to be important to you. If you can have a “fuck it” attitude with your mother’s complaints and negativity, why can’t you have that attitude about what other people think about you? Why is it necessary to attempt to please anyone else with your calling habits? Even a duck will move out of the way of sewage dumping into his pond, if we’re going to use that metaphor. We have all kinds of tools we can use to minimize the damage of interaction with toxic people, but it is damaging nonetheless. Even if we master the techniques, these interactions take up time, energy, and metal space. Especially when it’s frequently, we need more space to recover from one barrage before diving back in for the next. I for one was no longer willing to continually pour myself into a bottomless pit of negativity and abuse.

If you’re worried about blowback in the short term, yeah that might happen. Fuck it. You can turn off the phone for awhile. You not taking your mother’s shit means there’s more for them. It clearly shows they are not caring about YOU if they are guilting you back into the negativity because you are faaaaaamily.  A good family cares about your feelings too.

Godspeed, and keep posting if you want to talk it through more! We understand.

[Spring Butterfly]

There's a concept called "detaching with love" that might be worth looking into. It helped me.

My family culture is also minimum weekly check in but I don't and have made peace with being a bad daughter. I relocated my family to care for my"aging" when they were only 60 because they laid on guilt thick and I was deep in FOG so fell for it.

I'm here if they need me and that is enough. I am enough. Karyl McBride has a good book too in the book review board Will I Ever Be Good Enough that would be worth checking too.

[nanotech]

I've done the detaching with love. It's a brilliant way to drop the contact in a peace- loving way. I told UNPD sis I was doing it - I was mocked by her for that. I called my sister out on the mocking, and she then tried to gaslight me that she hadn't mocked me.
No contact is for the best with her. I'm NC with all my sibs. X F......it becomes easier.
They can't frogmarch us to family parties. Ha bluddy ha.

[waterfalls]

Thanks, everyone, for sharing your experiences and for your suggestions. I've been trying to have the best relationship I can have with my NPD mother while also trying to take care of myself. Needless to say, that doesn't always work. Sometimes the scales tip more in my favor, sometimes the scales tip more in hers. I see how my husband doesn't call his parents for a week or more at a time and I'm amazed--everyone lives their own lives but no one lives in each other's pocket. There are boundaries and personal space that don't exist in my family.

I know I need to take better care of myself, not take things my mother says or does too personally or seriously. I think I need to re-visit Don Miguel Ruiz's The Four Agreements. He has a lot of good things to say, but it's sometimes difficult to remind yourself or put those things into practice.

Thank you all again for your advice--I'm grateful.

[Pepin]

I see how my husband doesn't call his parents for a week or more at a time and I'm amazed--everyone lives their own lives but no one lives in each other's pocket. There are boundaries and personal space that don't exist in my family.

This is exactly how I felt before PDmil became a widow.  FIL had a life and kept her out of our hair.  When he passed, DH felt "obligated" to include her more in our lives because he was worried about her.  Her increased presence and failure to do any of her own inner work has caused a lot of tension not only in our family, but divisiveness throughout extended family. 

I decided that I had had enough of this.  I basically dropped her and let DH deal with her on his own.  She needs to grow on her own without being spoon fed like a baby.  Her waify behavior for a woman her age is astounding. 

As far as I am concerned, she doesn't have a right to live in your back pocket.  Your life is yours to do whatever you want with.  If you focus more on you, you will have less time for her.  She can figure it out on her own.  She is an adult and would seemingly be able to take care of herself more as she has been an adult longer than you.  Let her learn to adult for a change by letting her be responsible for her own actions.  Let the word no guide you.

[Hilltop]

I wish I knew.  I am starting the whole process now to try to detach.  I find for me my mother uses jabs and insults which I end up feeling badly about or getting angry about.  I really want to get to a place of not caring and detaching from it.  I also read Karyl McBrides book Will I ever be good enough and found parts of it helpful.  I am now going through the grieving process as she calls it, to try to accept the whole relationship for what it is and then build myself back up.  I have problems with accepting it all as I keep trying to tell myself that things will be different if I act different or that it wasn't that bad so I should stop carrying on.  It's a process.

I will have a look at Don Miguel Ruiz's The Four Agreements, thanks for the suggestion. 

[Adria]

I would just start distancing myself a little at a time. Start only calling every other day for awhile. Then maybe every few days until you reach whatever goal is comfortable for YOU.  Don't let the family put a guilt trip on you.  I'm sure they are happy letting you call every day, then they don't have to call her as much (another form of scapegoating you).  If they get mad at you, SO WHAT! You are not responsible for their happiness, and they are not responsible for yours. You sound like a very caring person, so they can keep manipulating you into roles that are not good for you. Not just your mother, but your whole family. 

It will seem foreign and uncomfortable to set boundaries at first, so maybe take it slow, a little at a time but once you get a taste of taking your power back, it feels very freeing.

[HelenP]

I feel obligated to call her everyday because she is now sickly and because my family is European (think "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" and you have a good idea how my family operates).

Maybe use e-mail or phone messaging instead of calling her every day? That way you keep your sanity and show attention to her as well.

[waterfalls]

Thank you, Pepin, Hilltop, Adria, HelenP, and everyone again, for your comments and advice. It really stinks that we're all going through similar things with a PD parent or other relative. I'm grateful that I live on the other side of the US from my NPD mother and just deal with her on the phone; when I hang up, I can pretty much go on with my day and life, except for those times when she gets under my skin. And I realize it's about me allowing or not allowing that to happen, it's about my reaction; but as we all know, we're human and sometimes it's difficult for our brain to overrule our emotions.

Add the European cultural things and it's sometimes even tougher. I often feel obligated to call my mother at the beginning and end of the day to check up on her since her health is poor and to allow her to vent about her health, politics, or whatever. Like Lookin 2 B Free, I try not to get sucked into my mother's conversations, sometimes just making the appropriate noises. Adria, I would like to say that my other relatives are grateful for me taking my mom off their hands with my phone calls, but it's actually the other way around. Believe it or not, I call my mother the least (2 calls a day) compared to my aunt (3-5 calls), and my uncle (2-3). This is what the European cultural thing does; it actually supports the NPD person more (again, think of "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" or "Moonstruck"). Emailing and texting, HelenP, are seen as impersonal (plus, my mom is anti-technology); a phone call (or an in-person visit) is the accepted means of communication and expressing care. And Pepin, I'm concerned that if my father (who's 11 years older than my mother) is the first to pass, that I'm going to have a situation with my mother that you had with your MIL (I'm very sorry you went through that); I'm taking things one step at a time. I haven't heard about the detaching with love concept, Spring Butterfly and nanotech, but I definitely need to look into that since you both mention it.

Thank you again, everyone, for your good advice and for understanding--I truly appreciate it.

[Jolie40]

I know waterfalls that you said you can't disengage completely
but when you get off the phone, remind yourself you are a good person & you tried your best on the phone

give yourself only 5 min to be upset and then move
set a timer for 5 min and then that's it....you've got your life to live

be good to yourself

[nanotech]

I know waterfalls that you said you can't disengage completely
but when you get off the phone, remind yourself you are a good person & you tried your best on the phone

give yourself only 5 min to be upset and then move
set a timer for 5 min and then that's it....you've got your life to live

be good to yourself

This is very good advice.
You can begin detaching in your heart,  and that will let self -love in.
I still speak to my dad on the phone but I have boundaries, re my old enmeshment habits. I keep things very superficial and medium- chill. I politely refuse to gossip about my sister or other family members.
If he starts trampling, I just end the call. Nothing gets mentioned, but he doesn't do it next time.

[SunnyMeadow]

I have slowly been able to have more of a F-it attitude with my uNPDmother. She's very judgmental about everything. It's not easy and has taken a lot of practice.

Her latest is that the area where I bought a house is SO MUCH more expensive than her area! I could have bought a house near her and saved so much money. WHY would anybody pay so much more to live where I do when I could have the very same house by her, for tens of thousands of dollars less. 

Now I watch her lips move and think ....   

She's entitled to think whatever she wants, no matter how incorrect she is. I don't care to correct any of that information. Before I found this site and techniques, I would have defended my location and purchase and pointed out there really isn't the exact same house, cheaper near her. Now I don't care and it feels great. I replied, "oh, yeah, mmm-hmmm", changed the topic and moved on. Don't care anymore because she's a flaming &^*# and her thoughts and opinions mean nothing to me.

waterfalls, here's what I did .... I started being boring on the phone. Don't join in on topics, maybe let her spew her information for a while then find a reason to end the call. Then continue to be boring and shorten the length of the calls. You won't be much fun to talk to all the time and she should shorten the calls herself. Now my mother talks about restaurants, shopping and not much else. I'm still boring and don't offer her any of my personal life information. She doesn't deserve it anymore.

Keep in mind, she's going to think and say bad things about you no matter how much time you give her. So make this easier on yourself and cut it short. I fell ill with a stress induced condition, that made me MAD. Because the only person who causes me stress is my mother. Her decades of BS caused me to get ill. I couldn't take the stress anymore. Please don't underestimate the power of stress on your body.

You are important, protect your health by limiting contact with your mother. She'll be mad but so what. Think of her like a toddler throwing a tantrum.  You can view her bad behavior and move on with  in your mind. They aren't worth it.

[Jolie40]

give yourself only 5 min to be upset and then move

supposed to say .....move on

not literally move away

[Call Me Cordelia]

Although of course moving away is a great strategy too. 

[waterfalls]

Jolie40 and nanotech--thank you for that great advice on the 5 min to be upset and move on. So many times I've allowed my mother to get under my skin and put a damper on my day and evening. The 5-min time limit is a great strategy that I will have to remember--thank you!

SunnyMeadow--I hear you and feel your pain. I could describe the situation with my mother similarly to the way you describe that with yours. My mother tells me from time to time that if my father is the first to pass, she can live downstairs in my house (my husband has a home business in what is essentially a "mother-in-law" suite) to save both her and me money, that she'll be able to leave more to me when she passes than to spend it on her own place. The idea scares both me and my husband. We don't see or want such a scenario. I can't stop her from moving nearby in the future, I don't even mind helping her as she gets older. But I know she's going to need her own place separate from me. I figure I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. And great ideas on how to answer phone conversations. Already, I've been just letting her complain, talk, or whatever while I just make the appropriate sounds (ex. mm hmm) and not feed into whatever rant she's on. Viewing her as a toddler throwing a tantrum--that's a good perspective. I'm so sorry for the stress you've dealt with due to your mother. I can relate because often a lot of the stress I feel is because of my mother. Sometimes I think if I had a break from the phone, my day would be so peaceful without hearing her complaining or her negativity. My therapist once commented to me that isn't it amazing that someone 2,600 miles away can have such an effect on me. Please take good care of yourself and your health.

Thank you once more to everyone for sharing your experiences and advice. I will try to be good to myself. Be good to yourselves as well. Wishing all of you peaceful vibes and loving-kindness.