Disconnecting from friends and relieved

Started by Mintstripes, October 23, 2020, 12:23:01 AM

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Mintstripes

This year was the end of some very problematic friendships for me.

Friend A was still stuck in my former religion/cult. She was constantly debating between staying and leaving the community. Very codependent and it was all she talked about. I tried telling her that I couldn’t bear to hear about my former community anymore, that it was triggering to me. She just would not stop though and seemed to be addicted to the toxicity and letting people from the community walk all over her. Many times when we spoke on the phone, she’d tune out if I was talking or hang up suddenly if she got another call. I felt like a sounding board that was “safe” because I had left the religion/cult and she could complain to me without any repercussions. I no longer wanted that job.

Friend B was the one who stopped talking to ME. We had known each other for many years but I often had this feeling that there was some sort of tension with her, passive aggression, dishonesty or whatever. She abruptly stopped talking to me after we had a disagreement then posted something vague about “needing to take a break from certain people”. If that was directed towards me, how immature. The relationship wasn’t very fulfilling anyway.

Friend C has been problematic for years but I’ve hung on because I wanted things to work out. She’s the only person in this world who really knows me. However, for many years now, I’ve noticed a pattern and I think she displays narcissistic tendencies. She’ll disappear for months and months, then come back when she has a problem to vent about. We’ll talk like nothing ever happened for a month or two, until she gets distant and disappears again. I tried talking to her about something very upsetting that happened with my UnPDxh this week and she seemed disinterested and then curtly said “gotta go”. I was really taken aback. I think there are shades of an idealize/discard cycle going on here. I also think she lovebombs me.

Other casual friends and acquaintances I have met since my divorce have been unreliable. I have gotten better, but I am STILL working on not being the only one to reach out or give more than I should. I have connected with a classmate of mine from grad school online BUT I resisted the urge to share my life story and overshare, so I’m proud of myself for that. I’ve noticed that she is keeping things super professional, so I am going to do that, too.

Anyway, this was long and maybe not super cohesive but thanks for reading. I’m feeling sort of ashamed and discarded. I’m ashamed for having been the one to text people first when they reach out less, send longer texts when I only receive a few words in response, send pictures only to have them completely ignored, etc. I don’t know what it is but it all makes me want to retreat and just focus on myself, LO and my life.


Edited: typo



GettingOOTF

Leaving my marriage and working on myself highlighted the toxic and abusive relationships in other areas of my life. And sometimes I was the toxic one.

For a couple of years I felt like all I did was end friendships. I began to feel like the problem had to be me. Surely all these people couldn't be "toxic"? Well yes they were. It was a gradual process. As I'd develop more confidence, self esteem and work on my codependency mainly by adding boundaries I saw the truth behind more and more connections.

I made new friends and eventually "shed" those too. It was a confusing and upsetting time.

I was really good friends with someone for decades. I considered him my closest friend. I took a trip with him recently and it was a bit of a disaster. I came to see that the friendship was really based on him being in control and "superior" and he battled to handle the new me. We live on separate continents and he's married so we don't see each other much. It was quite eye opening. I worked through this in therapy and decided to keep this friendship but now I'm aware of its limitations.

My therapist explained that due to my upbringing and various issues I had a very high tolerance for abuse which was why all my relationships were abusive in one  way is another. 

As I've become stronger, more confident in who I am and worked on my codependency I've cultivated better quality relationships.

I did spent a lot of time shamed and doubting the relationships at the time, but now I see them for what they are.

I'm also better at accepting people for who they are and what they are capable of giving me. I don't fight to get them to be who I want them to be. it's made it easier to make friends and I'm less caught up in the relationships. Like with my oldest friend. I now know the limitations. I'm able to enjoy the relationship for what I like about it and leave the rest.

Mintstripes

Quote from: GettingOOTF on October 23, 2020, 01:10:34 AM
Leaving my marriage and working on myself highlighted the toxic and abusive relationships in other areas of my life. And sometimes I was the toxic one.

For a couple of years I felt like all I did was end friendships. I began to feel like the problem had to be me. Surely all these people couldn't be "toxic"? Well yes they were. It was a gradual process. As I'd develop more confidence, self esteem and work on my codependency mainly by adding boundaries I saw the truth behind more and more connections.

I made new friends and eventually "shed" those too. It was a confusing and upsetting time.

I was really good friends with someone for decades. I considered him my closest friend. I took a trip with him recently and it was a bit of a disaster. I came to see that the friendship was really based on him being in control and "superior" and he battled to handle the new me. We live on separate continents and he's married so we don't see each other much. It was quite eye opening. I worked through this in therapy and decided to keep this friendship but now I'm aware of its limitations.

My therapist explained that due to my upbringing and various issues I had a very high tolerance for abuse which was why all my relationships were abusive in one  way is another. 

As I've become stronger, more confident in who I am and worked on my codependency I've cultivated better quality relationships.

I did spent a lot of time shamed and doubting the relationships at the time, but now I see them for what they are.

I'm also better at accepting people for who they are and what they are capable of giving me. I don't fight to get them to be who I want them to be. it's made it easier to make friends and I'm less caught up in the relationships. Like with my oldest friend. I now know the limitations. I'm able to enjoy the relationship for what I like about it and leave the rest.

Hi GOOTF,

I think you bring up a really good point about being able to recognize toxicity, whether in others or ourselves, after confronting it in such a massive way, such as divorce.

I've also had self doubt, like... is the problem me? Other times, of course, I feel entirely justified, such as in the case of a friend who was upset that I was expressing views that were vehemently against bigotry of any type. I will not tolerate that in my life.

With Friend B, I wondered if I was being toxic. She triggered me so greatly that I felt myself feeling extremely irritable every time we spoke. She frustrated me immensely and sometimes I caught myself shouting at her for her perpetual self-sabotage and involvement with problematic individuals. I apologized but still... I don't think the friendship was good for either of us.

I think that I am somewhat the opposite: due to my upbringing, I am very sensitive to any toxicity and am ready to cut anyone off for any reason. I went NC with my own parents for crying out loud. I can do it with a casual friend who adds nothing to my life as well, without so much as a thought (sometimes). Self-preservation is my motto.

What you describe about understanding the limitations with your friend is interesting. I don't feel able to do that. I am extremely reactive, angry, anxious and kind of "all or nothing". Sometimes, I feel like a total misanthrope. Many people annoy me. I hate superficial relationships. I despise unfulfilling friendships.

I also feel that most people around me have their own lives, ie: spouses and kids who are naturally, their priority. I feel quite isolated, still, as a single parent in my neighborhood. I feel a little bit like a pariah. And then I think "oh god, do I have a victim complex?"

It's difficult for me to accept people as they are. Example, the friend who is cool in person but a terrible texter who responds 4 days later with 2 word answers. Or the friend who disappears for 4 months and then returns for a short visit only to vanish a month after we've only just become reacquainted...

I've felt rejected a lot and disappointed. I don't expect to be any of these people's priorities AT ALL, but I'm envious that they have families and spouses who prioritize THEM. I don't have a "person". And it hurts.

I've also been crying a lot more, too. Not because I'm depressed but because I think I'm FEELING a lot more. I have a lot of anger and resentment but underneath it all is sadness. It surprises me at the strangest of times. I saw someone on TV the other day who seemed like a loving father figure and I wondered what it would be like to have that. I sobbed about that. I wanted to pick up the phone and text someone about that but I couldn't. There was no one I felt comfortable telling.

I also got back in touch with a woman I dated last year, she ended up opening up to me about various issues and I finally understood that her reasons for breaking it off had nothing to do with me. We admitted our feelings for one another but I don't think anything will actually HAPPEN. She also disappears for long periods of time. We were talking again and feelings were resurfacing but lately she's gone quiet again, I'll hear from her and then I won't for 6 weeks or something. She went to stay with a friend out of state when the pandemic first hit, and I have no idea when she's coming back. I probably need to accept that this probably isn't the right relationship for me and I hate getting breadcrumbed... but I still miss her. 


GettingOOTF

#3
QuoteWhat you describe about understanding the limitations with your friend is interesting. I don’t feel able to do that. I am extremely reactive, angry, anxious and kind of “all or nothing”. Sometimes, I feel like a total misanthrope. Many people annoy me. I hate superficial relationships. I despise unfulfilling friendships.

I wanted to add that with this friendship we share views that are fundamentally important too me and that I no longer ever compromise on, like politics etc. he is also a genuinely good person who has been there for me when others haven’t and has made an active effort over the years to stay in touch. I felt there was enough there to keep the friendship. He is dealing with his own issues and not always in the best way. I have a better understanding of what he is and isn’t capable of giving.

I too have very little tolerance for people and the BS they bring to relationships. I do think that part of that is overly reactive on my part given my history, but a larger part is that I have a better understanding of who I am. I will not tolerate any “devil’s advocate” type behavior, homophobia, racism, any kind of shaming around any life styles etc.

I was in a relationship similar to the one you describe. I had to accept that he isn’t in the place I need him to be to give me what I need. For a long time I though it was that I simply wasn’t enough, or I was too much, but it’s really nothing to do with me. I’m getting on with my life. Working on my “stuff”. If he is ever in a place where he feels he wants to come back then great, if not then I have my life. They say everyone comes in to your life for a reason. I think my “lesson” here is what people say and over - it’s not about you, it’s about what they are dealing with and where they are.

You have done so much over the last few years and made so many changes. I have always related to your posts. Are exes are very similar in many ways.

For me I think it’s important to always keep moving forward. To accept that there is no shame in changing my mind, my views or the types of people and things I like. I used to be very black and white and now I’m leaning to exist in the grey.

Edited to say I also cry a lot more. I think it’s because I’m finally safe to express negative emotions. I cried at work the other day as I was so frustrated and stressed, and while it wasn’t my proudest moment I didn’t feel any shame around it which is huge for me.

treesgrowslowly

Hi mintstripes,

These are hard steps to take.

I agree with you. I think there really are people who are addicted to drama. And after a while it gets harder and harder to keep going on the train to drama town with them.

Some people really do wander in and out of our life without seeming to care about being more reliable or available. I think it is their way of showing that no, they don't want to be available. They want to dip in and dip out.

I'm no longer surprised by their double standard though. Some times they have a crazy double standard. THEY don't like it when people dip in and out on them.

I have no patience for that at all.

What I found was that I was able to see these traits more and more quickly after a while. Now after a few months, I know if this person texts back or not and is flaky with me or is reliable.

Reliable is huge after PD abuse.

Good for you for making these new boundaries. It took me a while to feel sad after making these types of boundaries.

Trees

Mintstripes

#5
Quote from: GettingOOTF on October 23, 2020, 03:14:13 AM
I too have very little tolerance for people and the BS they bring to relationships. I do think that part of that is overly reactive on my part given my history, but a larger part is that I have a better understanding of who I am. I will not tolerate any “devil’s advocate” type behavior, homophobia, racism, any kind of shaming around any life styles etc.

Thank you, this is it. The “devil’s advocates”. This was a problem with the 2 friendships that recently ended. I couldn’t fully trust them and didn’t consider them safe. They reminded me somewhat of my GC brother (NC), never fully “taking sides”. Boundaries were a big problem too. Friend A recently added casually in conversation that her father had been in the room with her and heard our entire phone conversation right after I had left my ex-husband. Her father (who was really problematic) apparently told her that my ex was a loser etc. More importantly, I was horrified that she had let him listen to our conversation and heard whatever I had said that night. I’m still floored. Eventually, I realized how just how much she was talking about other people’s lives (community gossip). I tried to change the subject multiple times but she’d keep on trying to beat the same dead horse.

I’m glad you have made progress with your feelings surrounding crying and expression emotions! That is a great accomplishment.




Mintstripes

Trees: Reliability is HUGE. Unfortunately, none of the people I have met over the past year or so are very reliable. It triggers me, especially when I receive no response for days and days. Recently, one of these friends had asked if I wanted to go for a walk/coffee the following weekend. I said yes, and when the day came I didn't hear from her. I texted, waited hours for a response and she finally ditched me for some friend of her boyfriend's who had apparently come by at the last minute. But... she was the one who made plans with me? Anyway, I have lots of little examples like these and I'm quite frankly over it. I quite like my personal space, my apartment and my quiet life. I have more than enough coursework to get done, things to do around the house, podcasts, cooking... I am learning not to need friends much. It's lonely sometimes but I'm tired of reaching out and feeling like people don't really care and are unresponsive. I am definitely NOT clingy or needy, I think I'm pretty friendly and engaging... I have no idea what it is. I hate the fact that I have to leave emergency contacts blank though because I literally have no one.


Jolie40

#7
Quote from: Mintstripes on October 23, 2020, 09:36:29 PM
I'm pretty friendly and engaging... I have no idea what it is.

I see with my child how easy it is to make friends when one is young & still in school
as we get older, people are busy with jobs, marriage, kids which seem to take priority over friendships

just much harder to make friends as we age
then add in social media & phones.....people spend hours on those but have no time for friends

be good to yourself

Mintstripes

Jolie: I agree. It's really hard. I feel like everyone is caught up in the microcosms of their own families. Maybe most people already have their friend groups and aren't really interested in new relationships.

blacksheep7


Quote from: Mintstripes on October 23, 2020, 09:36:29 PM

kids which seem to take priority over friendships

then add in social media & phones.....people spend hours on those but have no time for friends

:yeahthat:  Some of my closest friends are busy..... The kids are adults! The parents always at their rescue instead of letting their kids take charge of their own life responsibilities. 

I have trouble understanding or accepting those behaviors.
I may be the black sheep of the family, but some of the white sheep are not as white as they try to appear.

"When people show you who they are, believe them."
Maya Angelou

Mintstripes

Black sheep: oh dear. I wouldn't be able to deal with that either. Not on my radar now, but I have a feeling I'm going to have a really hard time having friends when people reach the grandparent stage. So many entitled ones out there. Even now, as an often overwhelmed single mother to a preschooler, I still want to interact with others?! I want to have meaningful adult conversation. Laugh. Commiserate. I'm still a person. Even before I had kids, I never wanted to lose my entire identity just because I happened to become a mother.

blacksheep7

Quote from: Mintstripes on October 24, 2020, 11:56:25 AM
Black sheep: oh dear. I wouldn't be able to deal with that either. Not on my radar now, but I have a feeling I'm going to have a really hard time having friends when people reach the grandparent stage. So many entitled ones out there. Even now, as an often overwhelmed single mother to a preschooler, I still want to interact with others?! I want to have meaningful adult conversation. Laugh. Commiserate. I'm still a person. Even before I had kids, I never wanted to lose my entire identity just because I happened to become a mother.

I hear you loud and clear.  I am a grandparent in my early sixties and my friendships are fading away.  They are gfs that I've had since my thirties.  I used to see them more often when the  kids were still at home, like you.   Their priorities are the kids then the gkids, friends are last on their list.  I also noticed that they are very codependent.  Enmeshement is overlooked.

You still have many years ahead of you, I am sure you will find some good friends who will be dear and caring towards your needs.  Just reading your posts, you'll know how to spot the good people. ;)

take care
I may be the black sheep of the family, but some of the white sheep are not as white as they try to appear.

"When people show you who they are, believe them."
Maya Angelou

Mintstripes

#12
Quote from: blacksheep7 on October 24, 2020, 12:12:31 PM

I hear you loud and clear.  I am a grandparent in my early sixties and my friendships are fading away.  They are gfs that I've had since my thirties.  I used to see them more often when the  kids were still at home, like you.   Their priorities are the kids then the gkids, friends are last on their list.    I also noticed that they are very codependent.  Enmeshement is overlooked.

Good observation. Enmeshment is a big problem for a lot of people and it’s a major turn off for me.

I hope you’re right about the future. I feel like I’ve had difficulty my whole life finding real, honest friendships.

When I was married, everyone around me was either related or somehow known to my UnPDxh. I didn’t fit in with his faith community and wasn’t able to make friends on my own as a very isolated, miserable SAHM.

I just can’t believe how utterly unresponsive people are. The other day, I sent a text to a few people with some pictures of my Halloween decorations that I was really excited about (trying to make a big deal for DD this year especially) and the most I got was a lone thumbs up emoji. How hard is it to say “hey that looks super cool!” or whatever? It makes me feel stupid for having sent anything in the first place. I said how excited I was for Halloween and someone else responded curtly: “I’m not.” Wtf?

Another example. I am a big foodie and at the end of the summer, before I started grad school, I did a marathon baking/cooking day for fun and prepared lots of delicious food and desserts. I offered to pack up some containers and give to my friends in the neighborhood since we can’t have anyone over these days. So, it was like a “dinner party to go” idea. I prefaced it by making sure they were ok with it because of the pandemic. It was totally casual too, like no pressure at all obviously and people are allowed to say no.

Anyway, one person gave me the runaround then an excuse and the rest all asked if they could come the next day to pick up. I said sure, of course, no problem, I’ll pack it up for you etc.

Not one person followed up or came. I felt like such an idiot. I ended up freezing everything and had delicious food for myself for a week instead... I was so hurt. I wouldn’t have cared if people said no thank you, obviously that’s totally fine! But the indifference was like a kick in the gut. I won’t be offering again...

Edited to add that these are all people who have been over and had meals at my house before. It’s not like I’m some random creepy person off the street offering them food.

SparkStillLit

Even if you were some random creepy person off the street offering food....(ok maybe not....)
I don't get people. My neighbors LIKE it when I bake bread and give some to them. We don't really know each other but to say "hi". If you came and banged on my door with some food, I'd be down(as a neighbor). If I KNEW you, I'd DEFINITELY be down.
I think we end up in some really funky relationships when we have been raised by PDs and then move right into PD significant relationships, marriages or their equivalent. We just don't know any different. We think that's normal. Then when we start defogging, we start realizing how far out in the swamp we are. It may take a bit to get away from all the PDness we accidentally surrounded ourselves with.
I just don't think ordinary people are so cavalier and blow somebody off like that, especially when they made a big effort like cooking/baking/whatever. That is just RUDE. If I ever get a chance at a Do Over, MANNERS are going to be on my deal breaker list.

Mintstripes

Quote from: SparkStillLit on October 24, 2020, 09:16:54 PM
Even if you were some random creepy person off the street offering food....(ok maybe not....)
I don't get people. My neighbors LIKE it when I bake bread and give some to them. We don't really know each other but to say "hi". If you came and banged on my door with some food, I'd be down(as a neighbor). If I KNEW you, I'd DEFINITELY be down.
I think we end up in some really funky relationships when we have been raised by PDs and then move right into PD significant relationships, marriages or their equivalent. We just don't know any different. We think that's normal. Then when we start defogging, we start realizing how far out in the swamp we are. It may take a bit to get away from all the PDness we accidentally surrounded ourselves with.
I just don't think ordinary people are so cavalier and blow somebody off like that, especially when they made a big effort like cooking/baking/whatever. That is just RUDE. If I ever get a chance at a Do Over, MANNERS are going to be on my deal breaker list.

Spark: THANK YOU for your response.

I was really starting to doubt myself. Also, baking bread is wonderful  :tongue2: Every once in a while, I offer some baked goods to my super who lives in our building. It’s just a nice thing to do and strengthens neighborly ties.

I’m with you on manners. I was shocked at how cavalier (perfect word choice) people were at my friendly offering. I thought they might like a break from cooking and welcome a home cooked meal during the pandemic. Again, they are free to decline but it was the indifferent response and attitude that hurt my feelings. I don’t think anyone said “thank you”. Just stuff like “omg YUM”. These are not 18 year olds, they’re grown people in their 30’s and 40’s. I really started wondering if I did something wrong. Like, was it “too much”? Was it “weird”? It can’t be my cooking. I’ve known all these people for at least a year, they all have cars and can easily drive by to pick up etc... I realize now I’m still trying to justify my act of kindness and analyze which is probably a little ridiculous but I was blown off by three separate people and just...   :stars:

I tried thinking back to when the last time was that someone did something nice for me. And my bar is pretty low, I guess (like you said, after having been raised by and married to PDs). One of these same people dropped off some yogurt I said I’d take because she bought the wrong kind. She threw in some extras and I thought “oh how nice and generous!” But they were expired!!!!




SparkStillLit

I take those from my best, because I will use them AT HOME and she is funny about it, freaks out the week before. Give them to an acquaintance? NEVER. Also we have a free stuff counter at work. I put my gluten free things there. I found out the chief building official took them. Then I told her I had open things she could have, since we knew each other and knew I hadn't contaminated it or grossed it up some way. It would be weird to put out for strangers. Like expired items.
I sound like my grandma used to, but most people seem to be missing the manners boat. Thank you, please, be on time, if you have made an arrangement then either keep it or cancel it in a TIMELY fashion. Be considerate of other peoples' time!
I've noticed with the prominent PD in my life, he insists on being thanked for every possible thing and raises a storm if not, but he isn't at all big on thanking others for their time and efforts. Same with appointments. If he says a time, you better hop to and be on it, but with your time he can be as leisurely as he wants, fiddle about, whatever...even at whatever times he said. But if HE is ready to go, you better be out the door and waiting in the car. Same with completing tasks and the like. La la la if it's a task YOU need done. This is why manners are topping my list.

Jolie40

#16
Quote from: Mintstripes on October 24, 2020, 07:51:49 PM
I prefaced it by making sure they were ok with it because of the pandemic.
Edited to add that these are all people who have been over and had meals at my house before.

probably the virus since they've eaten at your house
some people are reluctant to admit they're being cautious

I would have at least said "thank you but no thanks cause we're not taking any chances"


be good to yourself

Mintstripes

Spark: I don't care if this is petty but I've started treating people the way they treat me. Inconsistent Friend who regularly leaves me on read for 6 days? I'll reply 6 days later too. Other Friend who can't be bothered to text more than 2 word responses and seems uninterested? I'll text back in kind. I am no longer in a rush to communicate with people who don't show up for me. It's a lonely life but whatever. I'm handling it.

Mintstripes

#18
Jolie: I thought this might be the case but for a few reasons, I don’t think it is. At any rate, just be straightforward. Anyway, I’m not going to lose any sleep over it. It wasn’t just about that one issue, it’s how unresponsive and indifferent I feel they are in general.

blacksheep7

Quote from: Mintstripes on October 24, 2020, 07:51:49 PM

Another example. I am a big foodie and at the end of the summer, before I started grad school, I did a marathon baking/cooking day for fun and prepared lots of delicious food and desserts. I offered to pack up some containers and give to my friends in the neighborhood since we can't have anyone over these days. So, it was like a "dinner party to go" idea. I prefaced it by making sure they were ok with it because of the pandemic. It was totally casual too, like no pressure at all obviously and people are allowed to say no.

Anyway, one person gave me the runaround then an excuse and the rest all asked if they could come the next day to pick up. I said sure, of course, no problem, I'll pack it up for you etc.

Not one person followed up or came. I felt like such an idiot. I ended up freezing everything and had delicious food for myself for a week instead... I was so hurt. I wouldn't have cared if people said no thank you, obviously that's totally fine! But the indifference was like a kick in the gut. I won't be offering again...

Edited to add that these are all people who have been over and had meals at my house before. It's not like I'm some random creepy person off the street offering them food.

Oh boy!  I understand your hurt.  You put in an extra effort in these difficult times to please your neighbors and show some compassion towards them.   
I agree with Jolie40.  The least they could have said is a thank you for your generous and thoughtful  gesture, something along that line.

You sound like a very good person who likes to please but unfortunately not everyone is receptive.

I baked goods twice in different occasions for  holidays and brought them to my sil house since she always had us over very often.  I thought that it was the least I can do, it was with pleasure.
I expected a text or email  in the days or week later telling me that they (with bil) enjoyed them, whatever.  A plain thank you acknowledging my offering.....Nothing.
Do I have to tell you that from now on, it's a store bought dessert. :tongue2:
I may be the black sheep of the family, but some of the white sheep are not as white as they try to appear.

"When people show you who they are, believe them."
Maya Angelou