We've been NC with FiL for 15 years - now he's dying

[Thru the Rain]

I need some advice.

We've been NC with my uNFiL for about 15 years. When we first went NC, my DH had a lot of therapy, and it really helped him with validation that NC was the right choice. His F was an abusive, alcoholic father, and the relationship remained very ugly well into DH's late 30s when he went NC.

This group has helped me over the years to understand this is DH's relationship to resolve. I can't and shouldn't try to resolve this for either of them. I had tried early on, but honestly neither of them want me in the middle.

We got a letter yesterday from FiL. He has cancer and doesn't have long to live. He wants to see DH.

DH isn't sure what to do. I've suggested talking with our pastor, or to work with a therapist again (his former T is long since retired and moved out of state). He needs help from someone other than me - I feel too emotionally involved to be helpful, AND I don't want to be in the middle of this. He says something along the lines of "Yes sure whatever" when I suggest getting help, and then takes no action.

DH has been very anxious, jumpy, and thin skinned since the letter came. And since I'm the person here, he's unloading his anxiety on me - which is seriously not OK. I don't care if he sees his dad or not - but he needs to make that decision, not just stuff his anxiety down until it comes out as anger at me.

Has anyone had success in getting a spouse or partner to see a therapist? Or should I just step back and stay out of it? I want to help, but I'm also leery of becoming the problem - either in reality or as a dumping ground for his uncomfortable and angry feelings.

Please share any help, advise, similar experiences. I want to do the right thing here.

[Poison Ivy]

I see a few issues here: 1) whether your husband should try to see his dad, 2) whether you should encourage your husband to see a therapist, and 3) how to get your husband to stop dumping his feelings on you.

Here are my thoughts. 1) Your father-in-law might die very soon (or he might not). I think it's okay to break NC to see a dying person, mainly because if it later seems like it was a mistake to do so, there are things that can be done to rectify the mistake. But if someone decides to not see a dying person and after the person dies that decision seems like a mistake, it can be a lot harder to rectify the mistake (i.e., the person can't be brought back to life).
2) I think it's okay to say to your husband, once, that you think it might help him if he sees a therapist or religious advisor. He could probably get in to see the latter more quickly. TIme does seem to be of the essence in this situation. But don't keep bringing it up. This is his problem, not yours.
3) I strongly encourage you to tell your husband that you don't want him to dump his feelings on you.

[SunnyMeadow]

I agree with Poison Ivy.

It's ok to tell DH not to unload his anxiety on you. Unfortunately, I've done this to my dh because 1) he's there, 2) I feel comfortable enough with him to unload my "stuff" to him. I have to remember to say that I'm not angry with him but angry at the situation I'm telling him.

I'd absolutely mention it could be beneficial for him to see a therapist and I have several times. Did he do it? Nope!

For my sanity, I'd tell him all you've said here. You don't want to be in the middle, you don't want to be dumped on, you think he should talk it through with someone and you are scared he's going to be hurt by fil (if you feel that way or whatever you feel). At this point in your life, don't hold back. Your feelings matter too. In my mind, you're sharing these things to protect him and you.

[Thru the Rain]

Poison Ivy and SunnyMeadow - Thank you both for your thoughtful responses!

I wrote down the phone number for connecting to a therapist through the EAP we have with our medical benefits. They will help with up to 6 counseling sessions and then refer to a local therapist if more help is needed. Or they will refer to a local therapist immediately if that's more appropriate. This is how DH found his first T many years ago, so he does know how it works.

I made sure DH knows where that number is, and that it's OK to ask for help. Part of the problem is that he doesn't want to NEED help.  I also reminded him that both our current pastor and our former pastor (we moved) would be happy to help him, along with one of the "elders" in our church who is incredibly down to earth and kind.

And following your advice, I'm going to leave it there. I've offered the resources - it's up to him to take hold.

I also told DH it's OK to see his dad. It's also OK to decline. It's OK for him to draw the line where he feels comfortable - meet at our house or a neutral location, meet for an hour or an evening or 20 minutes, just a phone call, not meet at all. I said I would support him whatever his decision is.

So I'm going to leave my advice there to be taken up or not.

I feel so much better today. When we first went NC with uNFiL, it felt like so much of the situation was for me to fix. And maybe if a PD wasn't in the middle, if it was just a run of the mill misunderstanding I could have smoothed things over for them. But it wasn't my responsibility then, and it's not my responsibility now. And I feel at peace with that.

Thank you for your supportive messages!

[Poison Ivy]

Thru the Rain, I wish you and your husband a safe emotional journey at this difficult time. No matter how people feel about their parents, a parent's death is almost never an easy thing to endure.

[Adria]

Thru the Rain,

I'm so sorry you and your dh are going through this.  Would your dh be willing to type here on the forum (his questions and fears)? Or, could you ask him if he would allow you to do that for him, and then he could read the responses of the good, caring, insightful people here?  My dh has allowed me to do that for him.  I think because it separates him from having to do anything head on (which I think a lot of men can't handle.)  He has read the responses by himself after I print them off for him, and has found that to be very helpful.

Other times, when we were up against a wall, I took over for him and simply posted the issue on the forum and printed them off for him without even asking him.  He has always been very receptive to reading the responses.  My dh has actually said, that the thoughtful caring responses from people here have made more sense to him than any therapist.  Just trying to think of another angle that may be easier for your dh and less threatening during such a time as this.  He probably just can't handle the thought of making an appointment and trying to explain everything at a sit down meeting right now. Might seem too overwhelming as he is probably swimming and drowning in his own mind.

I went through the same thing when my mother was diagnosed with cancer. I wish you and your dh the best. Hugs, Adria

[Thru the Rain]

Adria - I really like your suggestion. I'll see if DH is willing to express some of his thoughts that I can transcribe here to get the benefit of the collective wisdom of this site.

[Thru the Rain]

Per Adria's suggestion, I offered to include DH's concerns here. He's very interested to hear back from this group. And believe me, he's heard from you all MANY times, usually when I get great advice on dealing with my own family.

So here's what he's most worried about.

1. If he meets with his F, he doesn't want to get emotional or cry.
2. He's not willing to touch his F in any way - no hugs, no hand shakes. I think he could sidestep this with COVID concerns, but I think he wants to be more direct because he really doesn't want any physical contact.

And to summarize those two points above, he feels like either sharing emotions or any physical touch would "give" too much to his F.

Please share your thoughts, advice, stories or encouragement and I'll read back to DH. Thank you for helping us with this!

[Call Me Cordelia]

Well, I guess my question is what DOES your husband want? If he's not comfortable sharing emotions or physical touch, what does he want and why is he considering going? His dad wants to see him. Ok. He's not entitled to that. And honestly if that was the whole message, I'd be very wary. If FIL was feeling remorse it would have been in the letter. "I'm dying and I want to see you," has only one subject: Dad.

It also seems like a lot of pressure on your husband to put himself in that situation and not allow himself to show any feelings.

[bloomie]

Thru the Rain - I am just so sorry that your DH and your family are facing this. There are no easy answers or choices in such a complicated and layered relationship that has brought so much angst and pain.

The first thing I am wondering... and I apologize if you addressed this in thread and I missed it... does you H have confirmation that this is actually true? That your fil is actually terminal? It's just that given the profile you describe of your fil... alcoholic, abusive... it is something I thought of.

Either way, your fil has reached out and your DH has been triggered to high heaven by the prospect of meeting face to face with his father. And boy is that understandable. My heart goes out to him. This is about as hard as it gets with aging PD parents.

So here's what he's most worried about.

1. If he meets with his F, he doesn't want to get emotional or cry.
2. He's not willing to touch his F in any way - no hugs, no handshakes. I think he could sidestep this with COVID concerns, but I think he wants to be more direct because he really doesn't want any physical contact.

And to summarize those two points above, he feels like either sharing emotions or any physical touch would "give" too much to his F.

Assuming a few things here, so take what is helpful and leave the rest.

Seems it would be a face to face meeting and so I would make a few suggestions that have helped me.

Search yourself and recognize if there is any flicker of hope that your father has seen the light and is wanting to sincerely make amends and humbly acknowledge his harm of you.

If there is a flicker of hope, speak realistically to your vulnerable self and remind him that there is nothing wrong with hoping something has finally gotten through to your dad, but prepare your heart and mind for the more likely possibility that the best predictor of future behaviors is past behaivors you have experienced over time with your father.

You will never have the father you deserved. Deal with that hard and unfair truth on your private time. He doesn't deserve to bear witness to such deep and personal grief unless you choose to share that in some part with him because it will benefit YOUR healing.

Set a place that is neutral place to meet that would make emotional or physical clinging and displays very uncomfortable. Set a strict time limit on the meeting.

When/if he comes in for physical contact - hands in front of you palms facing him... and a simple and very firm: "No." is enough. If he cannot accept that first boundary and pushes for contact or attempts to shame or emotionally manipulate you it is important info to have.

Make a promise to yourself you will not commit to anything further in that meeting. Listen. Acknowledge him and that you have heard what he has to say and then make your exit.

As the conversation takes place keep in mind... is this productive? If it is a circular conversation (see glossary here: https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/10/30/circular-conversations) with finger pointing and that is going nowhere your mature, wise, strong self will end the conversation and leave.

Have a pat phrase in your back pocket to use to end the meeting. Doesn't matter what it is. Just a way to end the conversation.

Plan for recovery and processing after the meeting. Self care - going for a run, punching a punching bag, a long shower to symbolically 'rinse off' anything that may be attempting to linger in your heart and mind that is destructive and not good for you to dwell to long on. Whatever works for you. Do that. And then do it some more. 

Commend yourself for your strength and the kindness that brought you to agree to meet. You have done something that you decided was important to do despite the risks and angst it all has brought up.

Remind yourself you are resilient and strong and compassionate and wise. Keep living your beautiful life and loving your family well! You are a success story and can refuse to give over another day to someone who may be incapable of authentic love.

- all of this is written in a very directive style which is not my style really, but again saying these are things that have helped me when meeting face to face after many years of NC with a family member whose behaivors have been toxic for me.

I want to share a resource that is more about healing than meeting - it is the work of Pete Walker and it is found here: http://www.pete-walker.com

The free articles to the left of the screen when you follow the link have been so helpful for me and Walker's book from Surviving to Thriving is one I return to often as I can relate to so much of it.

Thru the Rain and DH - strength of lions and great wisdom to you both as you go forward. Please let us know how you are as you are able.

[Thru the Rain]

Call Me Cordelia and Bloomie - Thank you for your thoughtful responses. I'm going to share them with DH, and he'll have some solid food for thought.

You both brought up a really good question about whether FiL is actually terminal. I re-read his letter, and there's a distinct slight of hand, a twist on words. It's possible he has X number of months left for treatment, but it seems to be written to imply that he has a number of months "left". 

Reading without the initial emotion and shock, he never really says directly that he has X number of months left to live. And the whole letter really feels much more manipulative on second (and third) reading.

[Thru the Rain]

I shared the Call me Cordelia and Bloomie's posts with DH.

He wanted me to express back his overwhelming gratitude. As I stated above, we re-read the letter, and there is no real statement that FiL is terminal.

There is also no remorse, no wanting to make amends or even repair the relationship.

The idea that his father doesn't deserve to share any of DH's emotions was a mini breakthrough. DH had really not turned his thinking around to that extent.

I get the feeling he's leaning toward either not meeting, or meeting in a very neutral place with a very limited timeframe as Bloomie suggested. And he loved the ideas of holding his hands out as a visual No to physical contact, and he's thinking of his exit phrase.

Thank you again for your help and wisdom!

[bloomie]

Thru the Rain - sounds like some forward progress and that is good news. Thankful you have each other as you find the best way to go forward!

[Adria]

Thru the Rain,

I was thinking about your dh not wanting to get emotional or cry, and I sure do understand where he is coming from.  However, if he does decide to meet his father, and he does become overwhelmed and gets emotional or cries, it is okay.

It is okay because it doesn't matter what his father thinks anymore. If he meets with his father it is for dh to get closure or whatever it is that your dh needs from the meeting.  It is not about his father anymore, so what father thinks is irrelevant.  Dh must do what dh needs to do for himself.  If he does cry, he can walk away knowing that because he is able to get emotional, he is a better more kind, caring man than his father could ever be.

Your situation brings me to tears just typing about it. I feel it is more important for your dh to do what his heart tells him to do for his own health and well-being (one way or the other) than it matters if he gets emotional or not. Either way, it is all okay.  I wish you both the best. Hugs, Adria

[Thru the Rain]

I wanted to come back and give an update.

uNFiL's letter strongly implied that he was dying from cancer. On a second (and third and fourth) re-read, the odd wording really jumped out - and definitely cancer, but maybe not dying? Carefully constructed sentences intended to provoke an immediate emotional reaction.

Fast forward to today. Two weeks after the original letter we get another letter. It's a "miracle", tests show no evidence of cancer.  So....OK. Glad for good news of course. And no further mention of meeting or reconnecting.

DH had already decided to not meet with his dad, and also had decided to not even respond to the initial letter. Today's letter went right in the trash and will get no response.

I'm so grateful to this group! It means so much to have a place to pause and regroup and think and gain the benefit of others' wisdom and experience. It's like Sanity Island here.

[SunnyMeadow]

No cancer now? These NPD people have cornered the market on miraculous medical improvements. Amazing how they receive news of these terrible illnesses then make speedy full recoveries. 

Good to hear your dh isn't meeting with his dad and will not respond to the letters! They just aren't worth it.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Shameless.  Confirmation of your DH's decision, but who needs that? I hope you both are able to process what you need to from this and not give it any thought that intrudes on your life anymore. These things are stressful when they pop up. Hugs.

[bloomie]

Thru the Rain - thankful you are finding wise ways to respond to this. I hope you can both process this quickly and go back to your happy life!

[sandpiper]

MIL used to get a terminal illness at Father's Day every year (September here in Oz) and there was a miraculous cure before January was out.
Twenty five years of that, seriously.
Hoover, much, eh.

[Medowynd]

Another miraculous Christmas cancer cured!