She is just totally removed from reality.

[deletedtrust]

There is a long history between my uPDM and I. The most recent of it is in my history here. I finally grew a spine and made her leave my house two years ago and she has been homeless since. There have been ups and downs since then, she's raged on me a few times but I try to be vvvlc.

She was living in a homeless shelter when COVID hit and I was worried she would get it and die and I wouldn't know about it so I paid her phone in March to keep it on. Wouldn't you know that every month after that she "needed" help with it again. Give an inch, she takes 100 miles. Then the requests for convenience store orders started. I helped a couple of times because she doesn't have a car and the hotel the city put everyone from the shelter into is away from stores. After about six months I declared that I wasn't doing it any more. She asked again, I caved. The last time, Nov 2, she could tell I was pissed and that I meant it when I said me giving her anything was over. I didn't hear from her for over a month.

Thanksgiving I tried to call and her phone was off. I wasn't going to pay it just to chase her down this time. She never called me or the kids and she didn't call my husband the next day on his birthday. I started worrying that something was really wrong because she always calls on holidays but then I saw that she had been using our Hulu account and realized she was fine, just screwing with me. I didn't have the heart to do it but my husband had had enough and changed the password, logging out all other devices.

Eight days after Thanksgiving (and coincidentally less than 24 hours after her Hulu was cut off ) she calls from a friend's phone and says "I need you to call me right away. My phone is out and I need you to help me. I have a way to get some money but I need your help with the phone."

I was going to black hole it but I couldn't let it go and I felt inappropriate leaving a personal message on someone else's phone. I paid the bill and texted her that it was BS she couldn't call on Thanksgiving or my husband's birthday but she could call to ask for something after I'd told her I couldn't help her like that any more.

She had the nerve to text back "I wasn't going to ask you for anything."

I have always known that she "twisted the truth". I have always had a feeling that she was trying to make me feel crazy. This, though, is rock solid proof that she either a) is trying to make me think I'm insane or b) is absolutely out of touch with reality and can't remember what just happened. As for hurting my feelings for not calling on the holiday, she didn't even acknowledge that part. It makes me want to scream.

I have thought about going no contact for years now but I'm pretty sure this is the straw that breaks the camel's back. Lying and never being able to even acknowledge that she did something crappy. She is just so full of s**t.

[Thru the Rain]

You mentioned your previous posts - I just skimmed through them. You have come a LONG way and should be really proud of how much stronger you are today than you were a couple years ago!

Since your first posts:
- You've successfully gotten your M moved out of your house. Absolutely huge accomplishment!
- You've survived her Rage ~ Waif ~ Suicide Threat (or Attempt) cycle multiple times. I'm guessing you've see this cycle many more times than you shared here.
- You see right through her guilt games.
- You've kept your compassion and kindness.

Regarding your relationship with her now, in context of your earlier posts, she seems to want you to be *her* M. To take care of her emotionally and financially. To allow her to be a child who's not responsible for her actions.

When you called her on Thanksgiving, she chose not to pick up - she didn't "need" you that day. And it doesn't even occur to her that she might be needed. But when she wanted to reach you (i.e where's the free Hulu?), she had no problem finding someone's phone to borrow to call you. Very immature thought processes.

It may not feel like it, but you have 100% of the power in your relationship with your M. You can continue to pay her phone bill if it makes YOU feel good - that's a valid option. On the other hand if you drop the rope and stop paying for her phone, you can be certain she'll find others to pick up her responsibilities.

My own uPDM is very childish in similar ways - always looking for someone (ME!) to be her mommy. After I rejected that role, I rarely hear from her. It never occurs to her that she has any responsibility in her relationships. I'm "lucky" that my M's neediness is mostly emotional. I dread the day if my Dad passes away first and M has to manage (mismanage) her own money.

Getting back to your situation, it's OK to draw the line where you want it to be - texts only, no more money. Or maybe money for the phone if that gives you peace of mind - but it'll be because it helps YOU and not because you were manipulated into it by your M.

[notrightinthehead]

I agree with Thru the rain.

Deletedtrust,  this might be the moment when you truly start the grieving process for the mother you deserved and never had. Admit to yourself that you are an orphan, have been for a long time, never will have a nurturing mother.  This might be an extremely painful admission and it might take you some time to process the pain of your loss.  Going through the grieve might set you free in your interaction with her.

[Hilltop]

deletedtrust, she called because she was removed from the Hulu account.  She calls when it affects her.  Apart from that you don't hear from her.

Unfortunately things aren't going to change.  I would grieve the loss of a mother that you hoped you would have had and then work on freeing yourself from this ongoing manipulation.  Leaving the door open that she can walk back in to get more money creates confusion and hurt for you.  Perhaps its time to put up solid boundaries.

[deletedtrust]

Thru The Rain- Thank you for reminding me how far I have come. Five years ago I couldn't imagine being in this spot. Hopefully I feel the same way in five more years. Sounds like your uPDM and mine are cut from the same cloth. I do have to decide where the line is draw it and stick to it. My problem is still way too much FOG.

notrightinthehead and Hilltop- You both mention grief and the process of accepting that I do not have the mother I both thought I did (at times) or the mother that any kid deserves. I look at my own kids and couldn't imagine any situation on Earth where I would treat them the way my mother treated me. It's painful to accept that she doesn't look at me and feel the same way.

I have spent most of the day rolling this situation over and over in my head trying to work out a way where I can keep touch and have even a civil relationship but there doesn't seem to be a way for me to do that and maintain my mental and physical health. Every time she calls, she asks for me to pay for something despite me stating my boundaries very clearly. I almost never say no because I fear her rage or crying and nobody loves me stories. When I pay for whatever it is and avoid the insanity from her, I feel like I let myself down because I broke my word to myself again. She will never respect boundaries and I feel physically ill for at least a week after she rages at me. The only way out that I see is putting a note in the mail box that her mail is no longer accepted here and blocking her number.

My husband pointed out to me that I project my feelings onto her. I imagine her crying, sad and alone, heartbroken that her daughter won't talk to her anymore. He pointed out that I would feel that way if someone cut me off but that my mother doesn't look at it that way. When other family members have stopped answering the phone because of these same issues she never cries or misses them, she tells me how terrible they are and how she will never talk to them again. She was so mad at my godmother after she cut her off financially that she truly never spoke to her again. I encouraged her to call godmom on this past mother's day and uPDM wouldn't. Godmom died about two weeks later. She was the last solid, drama free, unconditionally loving woman I had in my life.

I have to stop thinking about how I would feel if I were in her shoes because she doesn't see the world the way I do. This is going to be a long road.

[IRedW77]

I have to stop thinking about how I would feel if I were in her shoes because she doesn't see the world the way I do. This is going to be a long road.

It's not just that she doesn't see the world the way that you do, it's that she doesn't even inhabit the same reality that you do.

It's more than just that though. Not only does she not inhabit the same reality as you, but she spent your whole childhood plastering her reality over the top of your (actual) reality.

I'm struggling with still thinking of my mom as a good and normal mother. Part of the reason for that is because she raised me with stories of all of the wonderful things she did for me. She taught me to believe that she was a good mother and to disregard any evidence to the contrary.

Part of how I am able to reconcile this is thinking about how she is as a grandmother. She does love her grandchildren in her way. She enjoys spending time with them. But she clearly feels zero obligation to take care of them for its own sake. Babysitting is something she does as a favor to me. What's she's willing to do is very limited, and it more often than not has strings attached.

Just being able to witness that disconnect tells me something about my own childhood. You love and care for your kids simply because they're your kids. There aren't any strings attached.

My mother will not contact me for weeks or months if I don't contact her first—unless she needs something. She loves it when I send pictures or FaceTime her with my kids. But she doesn't make any effort to get either of those things. She'll FaceTime with them every week if I set it up, otherwise I don't know—she forgets they exist?

My normal father since the pandemic started calls and talks to me and his grandchildren every single day.

[Hepatica]

I feel so sad as I read this. What a hard and painful situation to try to manage. I totally understand why it's difficult for you to walk away completely.

I think when you begin to redirect the love you have for your Mom, back round toward that little girl inside of you, the one that's scared and in pain, you will find clarity. I don't know if you have a therapist, but perhaps it's time for you to begin that journey of healing the parts of you that were neglected and abused and make that your focus. If you continue to take her calls just do maximum chill or if it is throwing you for a week, consider taking a long break from her calls entirely and redirecting the help back to you.

I am sure it must be traumatic to have a mother bringing her unstable situation to you regularly. She really needs expert help and you are not an expert in the kind of care she requires. This is not yours to solve either. And I know how hard that is. I think it's time for you to let go. You were not born to save her. That's not how this works.

I've watched both my parents go from fairly normal, everyday people to hard core gamblers and hoarders. They are lucky to have a house because they've mismanaged their financial lives so badly they both could be on the streets. I had to finally turn away from it. I just don't have the skills to deal with it on top of my trauma from growing up with them.

Read as much as you can about trauma and see if this fits for you. There must be something about survivors guilt that I carry and you would too that needs to be addressed. We still love our parents but we are helpless to save them and this hurts so much.

I'm so sorry and I'm sending you a big to tell you that you are not alone. I understand how you must be feeling. Your husband sounds smart about the projection. Bring that care back to yourself and focus on your healing. If it helps send out prayers (I am agnostic but I still pray) for your mom, but perhaps stop taking her calls and helping her. It hurts you too much and you deserve peace.

[deletedtrust]

IRedW77- So much of this is spot on and brought to light more things that should have been red flags. The part about plastering her reality over mine, the way she can be good with the grandkids but she also declared that my daughter was manipulative and trying to make uPDM pee herself because daughter was "taking too long" in the bathroom. My mother tries to tell me that things were usually good when I was a kid but my memory is different. My grandmother is the only one I remember taking me to do anything fun or to go back to school shopping and I spent all school breaks and most weekends with her. My grandma could get on my case sometimes but I never for a second questioned her love for me.


Hepatica- I'm so sorry that you had to watch your parents' decline. My mother did lose her apartment because of money mismanagement and then lost the storage bin with everything she owned in it for the same reason. It's hard but good for you focusing on healing your trauma instead of trying to save them. I know that I have trauma and I'm pretty sure the fact that I allow her to rage at me when I don't do what she wants is still adding to it and keeping my from any healing. I picked up a copy of "The Body Keeps the Score." and it's all in there. Just talking to her this time has made my horrible TMJ pain flare up. Any trauma resources that have been particularly helpful for you?

I sent her a message that I'm sending any mail that comes here back. That was the last reason I would have to see her in person or talk to her. Now my phone is on silent, I unfriended her on FB. There will be no raging on me today. Today will be spent focusing my love and care on my husband, my kids, and as foreign a feeling as it is, myself. 

Huge hugs to you everyone who replied. Everyone on this forum lays the truth on me with tenderness and I appreciate you all so much.

[Hepatica]

Sweet deletedtrust, you deserve to heal. 

I do as well and finally realized it. I haven't yet read the Body Keeps Score, but I've read Peter Walker's - Complex PTSD. I remember feeling, that finally someone was describing my pain.

[deletedtrust]

Hepatica- Yes, absolutely you deserve to heal! Thank you for the recommendation <3