turning HER depression around onto me

Started by lindentree, December 14, 2020, 10:57:22 AM

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lindentree

This forum has helped me so much in the last four years. Here I am again asking for some validation, support, and advice.

Mother is uNBPD (high-functioning). We live 10 hours away and love it. Mother calls, starts crying right away about how she is not doing well (I guess sad that we are not getting together over holidays even though her holiday triggers and emotional issues were the centerpiece of all my holidays and birthdays growing up to the point that I didn't event want a Christmas tree as an adult). Tells me she is down, my stepfather is down, acts all pitiful in her voice and tone...looking for me to fill her void?

I was "grey rock" the whole time, but by the end she did this weird gaslighting/projection thing asking me "what's bothering me (as if she cares! As if I could ever say STOP EMOTIONALLY ABUSING ME haha - is it ok to use all caps here?  ;D), what has come between us, you can tell me what's bothering you", etc. The highlight was, "Don't you miss us? I told you that we miss you, don't you miss us a little"? hahaha. I was in shock. Of course I don't miss her. I'm having the best Thanksgiving/birthday/Christmas of my LIFE because her toxicity is 10 hours away.

Then a follow-up text about how she's here to support me, "whatever is "bothering" me, I've supported you with your ABC jobs/projects, I feel rejected, something has changed, what have I done" and finishes with her high-functioning touches like "I'm so proud of you and love you".  :stars:

The rest of the evening my body was so stressed. It was a 5 minute conversations that left me feeling like I had emotional whiplash.

I would love to hear if you've experienced similar "projection" and any advice/encouragement you might have for me. I'm also researching C-PTSD and would love to know if there's a therapist specializing in childhood emotional trauma. I have had a few good counselors in the last 10 years but need one specializing in narcissistic parents and C-PTSD healing.

COVID is giving us a great excuse to have a healthy holiday for the first time with my family of choice which includes two incredible little boys and a supporting, non-toxic hubby.

Andeza

Hahah! Yeah that's all quite textbook. My own uBPDm could have said every last part of that, and did! Maybe not all at the same time, but strung out over a period of a few months when I started lowering contact for my sanity. I believe caps are quite fine when you want a little extra emphasis, so long as the whole post isn't written with the button on.

Here's my take on this. They're ALWAYS "depressed" "down" "blue" etc. This is because they have developed zero "0" coping skills in life. They expect us to endlessly pour out our compassion, our strength, our reassurances that we love them, that we care about them, that we want them to be happy... Then when you gray rock that crap they start to panic. What's wrong with their vending machine of love and comfort!?!?! Then they start kicking it to get the candy out. "What's the matter? Don't you miss me? I said it to you... Why aren't you saying it back?" This is otherwise know as trying to be a travel agent for guilt trips. Which, we don't want any of that nonsense. Ain't nobody got time for that.

When you get that emotional whiplash feeling, my best recommendation is to find a quiet, dark place to sit. A closet works nicely, unless you're afraid of the dark then just opt for the quiet bit. Then take ten minutes, breathe steadily, investigate the emotions you are feeling and where they arise from. As you sit with the feelings, you can accept them. They are valid feelings. The stress response you mention can be the body's reaction to a flight or fight situation that is unresolved. You got all geared up to run or duke it out and then... nothing. The call ended, but your emotions were still in a tangle and so there was no personal resolution.

Covid is a convenient excuse, but an excuse is, ultimately, unnecessary. I believe we all have the right, and obligation to ourselves, to surround ourselves with healthy individuals that we actually enjoy having in our lives at the precious moments. Like, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Birthdays, celebrations, births, deaths, and so on.
Remember, that there are no real deadlines for life, just society's pressures.      - Anonymous
Lasting happiness is not something we find, but rather something we make for ourselves.

Hepatica

lindentree,

She slimed you. You were going about your day, taking care of yourself and your family, and she inserted herself into your life to try to make you feel some of her pain. My father did the same thing to me recently after I finally backed away from his horrendous behaviour. I changed the game for him and self-reflection caused him some pain so he sent me a letter and tried to send me on a guilt trip. Love that analogy Andeza. It's so perfect.

I too got thrown by this and I spent the day in flight and fight mode. Because I have been diagnosed with C-PTSD, I know now that self-care is important when I get attacked. I have been lucky to find a therapist trained in C-PTSD and has knowledge of personality disorders. I think you're on the right track seeking one. In between therapy sessions I watch Dr. Ramani and Jerry Wise videos on youtube. I find them very helpful. Inner Integration is good as well.

I'm sorry she got through and hurt you. I am strictly no contact now. If a letter comes I don't read it and I don't answer my phone. Luckily my parents are elderly and do not text. I find if they get through by whatever method, in my father's case, letters, it can really flare up my PTSD, so I am being really strict about avoiding any kind of communication as I heal.
"There is a place in you where you have never been wounded, where there's
still a sureness in you, where there's a seamlessness in you, and where
there is a confidence and tranquility." John O'Donohue

Andeza

I got the travel agent line from a financial guy I watch on YT, Dave Ramsey. But he's surprisingly up on his personal communications and relationship norms and pushes the "Boundaries" book really hard. I like that "slimed" mental image. Because it's so true. They just do these drive by "slimes" where they rush in, dump all their emotional crap onto us, feel better, then rush off again. Leaving us, now messed up and off the rails for the rest of the day or longer, to deal with it on our own.
Remember, that there are no real deadlines for life, just society's pressures.      - Anonymous
Lasting happiness is not something we find, but rather something we make for ourselves.

Boat Babe

#4
Drive by slimes. Love it

I suppose the best way to deal with it is by identifying the tactic when it starts and take immediate action to protect yourself. Assert your boundaries. Leave the room. Cut the phone call off short (As WI said "Gotta go, the dog's on fire.). And breathe yourself back down off the ceiling. Then do some self care that works for you, that ties in with your 4F response. (Are you in flight, fight, freeze or fawn mode?).

I remember picking my mum up from the train station. She had travelled from London to stay for the weekend. It's about an hour and a half journey. She got off the train and just attacked me verbally, there and then on the platform, because the train journey made her back hurt. She was shrill, angry and hateful. And she emptied the whole bucket of slime over my head. Great start to the effing weekend.

Love to all here.

It gets better. It has to.

jennfr

#5
 
Quote from: LindetreeI would love to hear if you've experienced similar "projection" and any advice/encouragement you might have for me.

I signed up for this website years ago with the revelation that my mom is BPD. (U-BPD? I'm not sure how to ascribe;  a mental health professional who met her, diagnosed her to me.)  I did not post a whole lot but definitely perused the site heavily. 

Today I'm browsing again after a mom-convo, last night, which I did not end quickly enough. I did the Grey Rock as always. But should've just ended the call. But you know, it's near the holiday and I guess I was a little lonely. So I kept listening and got slimed with her depression.  Not the gaslighting this time... but... it's all still there. Waiting in the wings.  The conversation you've described, sounds like the basis of my mom's relationship with me for Years. 

Quote from: Andeza on December 14, 2020, 11:23:59 AM
..... What's wrong with their vending machine of love and comfort!?!?! Then they start kicking it to get the candy out. ...

Vending machine of love and comfort! Yep, that's it.

Now today I've been struggling with depression all day.  All those old emotions back again. All the things she used to ascribe onto me, trying to get back into my head and bring me down.  Well I think i'm succeeding, mostly, in keeping those THoughts at bay... I know that I don't Believe them... but the depressed feelings attached to the thoughts, are seeping through anyhow.  Just slime coming in around the edges.

What makes it difficult, the Slime of it all, is the whole poke-you-until-you-respond -- and then tell you why your response was wrong.  And if you don't respond, make up an emotional response For You, tell you you're having it, and then why you're wrong. 

So then. Later on when you are having actual emotions, it becomes so much more difficult. Because every emotion you ever have, has thoughts and feelings attached to it -- OTHER emotions -- telling you why your actual, real emotion is wrong.  And then you can think you really are crazy.

It's no fun being angry or sad or even just annoyed. But. You CAN be. I CAN be. It is okay to feel, however YOU feel like feeling.  And, you don't have to let someone else determine how you Do Or DoN't feel, NOR whether you Should or should Not feel that way.

WinterStar

Quote from: Andeza on December 14, 2020, 11:23:59 AM
Here's my take on this. They're ALWAYS "depressed" "down" "blue" etc. This is because they have developed zero "0" coping skills in life. They expect us to endlessly pour out our compassion, our strength, our reassurances that we love them, that we care about them, that we want them to be happy... Then when you gray rock that crap they start to panic. What's wrong with their vending machine of love and comfort!?!?! Then they start kicking it to get the candy out.

THIS!

My mom does not like my boundaries. She wants to talk on the phone like we used to. She misses me. She feels like we're in a bad place. Our relationship is important to her. She wants to work things out, know what she did wrong. Then, she can apologize! She sounds very much like your mother. I suspect that, like me, you have also tried "working things out" with your mom. And it was a resounding failure at every turn. Because she can't handle any negative feedback and cannot deal with anybody's needs besides her own. But she's offering to try, so it's very tempting to take her up on it and try again. And this is where the high-functioning ones are so very, very difficult in a way that rivals the vile PDs.

The truth is that I've always put her needs above my own, and that's what she expects. Anything less means there's something wrong, that something must be bothering me. The message I routinely receive is that if she's "upset" about something, I'm supposed to start or stop doing something, fix it in some way, no matter what I feel about it. For instance, I dislike talking on the phone and rarely do with anyone, but it hurts her feelings when I don't talk on the phone with her, so I need to do it even though I don't like it. And I should probably also pretend that I like it to make extra sure I don't hurt her feelings. And then nothing would be wrong anymore. I mean, for her nothing would be wrong. I'd be dying inside again, but that's what she prefers. She isn't a fan of reality. Or of me having needs or talking about them.
I am only resolved to act in that manner, which will, in my own opinion, constitute my happiness, without reference to you, or to any person so wholly unconnected with me. -Elizabeth Bennet

Andeza

I used to try, but at some point realized it was an exercise in futility and gave up. She would always rationalize and justify everything she ever did, despite my statements to the contrary. There was never growth, there was never acceptance of responsibility. There was only "I'm sorry you feel that way."

I've been no contact for a year now.
Remember, that there are no real deadlines for life, just society's pressures.      - Anonymous
Lasting happiness is not something we find, but rather something we make for ourselves.

Call Me Cordelia

"I'm sorry you feel that way."

Yep, that's exactly what my mother said to me the last time I spoke to her. "I'm sorry you feel that way. I love you."

"The truth is that I've always put her needs above my own, and that's what she expects. Anything less means there's something wrong..." And it's completely up to you to identify the problem, which is obviously with you, and then do whatever you have to do to get back to the Prime Directive.  "And then nothing would be wrong anymore. I mean, for her nothing would be wrong. I'd be dying inside again, but that's what she prefers. She isn't a fan of reality. Or of me having needs and talking about them." I feel you 1000%. Your perspective doesn't exist.

ShyTurtle

All of this resonates with me!

Every time my adoptive mother said "I love you," it cut me like a knife. There were too many times that she hurt me on so many levels. I know she is incapable of healthy love, and coming from her those words are more indicative of her neediness and her manipulation.
🐝➕

lindentree

A month later and I'm back here reading the responses that came in since I last checked. Thank you ALL for your understanding, support, and great ideas. I'm back because I had another one of those calls, this time over FaceTime, where I left thinking, "What the heck just happened? I was just calling to say hi!"

I've resolved to not talk to her on the phone when I'm alone ever again because that's when she emotionally abuses me. She's very HF when my hubby is around. Today it was just my 2 and 4yo with me when I decided to call...stupidly..and she was "emotional" because she had just gotten off the phone with her NF who's in bad health. She mentioned my stepfather getting vaccine and I said "well when you both get vaccinated you should come visit"...stupidly...because then she says "that's like a knife through my heart". I guess she wants us to invite them to visit during a pandemic.

I'm in shock b/c no one in their 60s need to be traveling 10 hours away during COVID, not to mention then I won't be able to see our one neighbor family who forms our bubble (and is a lifesaver for me as a SAHM with two small kids during a pandemic) for 10 days after they leave...but honestly I don't want her to ever visit, because there's too much risk of emotional harm.

There is some guilt I feel because she's HF and at times we've had great visits...which now that I think about I only think they're great because I wasn't blatantly emotionally abused. She plays the grandmother card a lot.

I told my DH today that I'd like to do just have my own funeral ceremony for my mother so I can have some closure because I have no mother in the real sense of the word, just a woman who birthed me and must not care about me because she harms me so much with her guilt trips. SI don't think she brings ANYTHING to my life and it's just so sad to realize that.

My (enabling) father and stepmother are so normal, as are my in-laws when we call. Just chatting about life, our boys, catching up, pleasant things. I never know what will happen when I call (or answer a rare call from) NM.