No Contact and the "Ignoring Narcissist mother" - plus verbal abuse

[Dandelion]

I will try to keep this brief as, like most of us, I could write an essay  .

My mother is what you'd call the "ignoring Narcissist mother".    Quite hard to identify in some ways, as could almost be any vaguely neglectful parent from the 1960s/1970s.  But there are many very clear markers, albeit in a low-key way.  Highly self-absorbed, superficial, lacking in feelings.  I have almost no memories of her even though I was an only child!  Is never wrong and cannot be criticised in any way. 

From teenage years onwards (I was kicked out at 17 for no reason at all) she mostly ignored me and I have fended for myself even when very ill.  She was completely disinterested in my life, totally unsupportive.   However, at least annually, there were the narcissistic rages at any imagined narcissistic injury.   These were totally abusive and absolutely devastating to me.  Abusive tantrums in a restaurant, in the street, but usually in private.  However, in the last 5 years or so, after I last stood up to her, she has been more amenable.  Occasionally I could a rage coming on, but I just ignored it, the moment passed, and I was even hopeful we had come to some understanding.  When not raging, she is 70% normal.  For the last few years she's even given me a bit of cash which was very helpful (as I was a single parent on basic disability).

However, at our last meeting 6 months ago, she started up with the verbal abuse again.   Out of the blue, as per usual, she started calling me a "Fckg B*tch*, that had turned her family against her (total bananas) and to get out of her house blah blah. 

This has been going on for 4 decades now!  I am normally against writing and sending letters, but am thinking of writing to her just to clarify the blame as hers, but also leaving it open to her to contact me.  She may never do that, but I am giving her the opportunity to get back in contact.  If she doesn't take it I will finally have done everything possible.  I don't expect an apology, but she will know I know she knows what I think.  Also I wont' get sucked into any of her care (she's rich enough to pay for it) and would keep contact low. 

I don't know why I'm writing this.  Perhaps because the ignoring narcissist mother is more of a rarity, and she is the rest of the time more normal?  So perhaps easier to handle in some ways, apart from the abuse?   And what about the abuse?  My mother seems to think its completely OK to call her daughter a "f*ckg B*tch" and so forth, for no reason at all. Have I just become immune to it? 

I feel however it would be sad to cut her off completely, without one more chance.  I feel like I'm giving her one more opening because of her age, but equally I'm not prepared to completely sweep it under the carpet (hence the letter, which I amend every day, until I get it right).  I am not sure I will send it, but I think it probably will, to get some kind of closure.

PS.  She's also bad-mouthing me a little to my 18 year old son.  He is big enough to see through it.  But sometimes I think if she were dead we just wouldn't have to deal with all this s***.  On the other hand if she did die, maybe there would be some unfinished business for me.  The letter could complete this.

Its sad.  I do care about her in some small way.  But I'm so tired of this, and I'm nearly 60 myself.

Thank  you for listening.

[bloomie]

Hi Dandelion and welcome to Out of the FOG.

Purely based on my own experiences with a mother who would disown or discard me when she was emotionally dysregulated and could keep the emotional cut off going for a very long time - I don't think it is easier at all to have the head spinning abuse from out of nowhere as an ever present threat to your peace of mind. It's so deeply conflicting to have a mother who can seem 'normal' some of the time, yet who is really not.

I am really sorry you have been living with this cycle for so long.

It might be good support and give some insights to read through the threads of others who are considering writing a letter. You can use the search feature to find those threads. The toolbox and drop down menus above are also great resources.

A book that might be of help is called: Will I Ever Be Good Enough?: Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers, by  Dr. Karyl McBride Ph.D.

I like to think of you writing and rewriting that letter because it is something active you can do for self validation and as a release while you determine exactly how productive it would be to actually send it. I don't know how much closure you will get with someone who could treat you and speak to you this way without any discernible remorse, but sometimes we need to say what we need to say, one time and know we put it out there. 

I never found closure or healing with my own mother (she has since passed) and she never budged from her assertion that I was always and ever the problem. She called me her "problem child." In actuality, I was a well behaved, gentle, people pleasing, sweetheart of a kid.

But... the really good news is that I have found healing, help, empowerment and strength as I have redirected my energies to learning and growing and developing a support system around myself like you are doing by joining the community here.

I found I had a lot of grieving to do around the reality that I did not have a good enough mother or maternal love and nurturance. She was broken and incapable and in my mother's case, mentally ill.

A mantra I learned when I first landed here is called the 3 C's and it goes like this... I didn't cause it, I can't cure it, and I can't control it.

I hope you find your time here to be of great encouragement as you find the best way forward! Be gentle with yourself and keep coming back. It really helps lighten a heavy load!

[Dandelion]

Hello Bloomie, thank you for your response.  We are both flowers!

Re. the McBride book, I have read this several times.  The only thing is I find alot of these books - and I've probably read them all - is that they do tend to focus more on the more obviously Engulfing type of Narcissist.    I am often open-mouthed at the levels of stalking, hysteria, controlling and persecution that goes on with these kinds.  Since mine was more the Ignoring or Abandoning, I have struggled more to find literature that explains this kind of behaviour, though there is some out there.  There are of course many similarities in the different types.  The Silent Treatments, the Narcissist rages, the self-absorption and smearing etc.  But the general tone with Ignoring Narcissism seems (to me) much cooler and more distant - except for the occasional insane rages.  Also, my circumstances seemed quite different.  Being alone, ill, no money, single parent etc - all these factors can make things slightly different.   However, if I study the books I usually find some "gold" in there.  And most of them have some kind of "validation" or insights to offer (with Danu Morrigan "Your're Not Crazy" I also found her style very natural and healing).

I think you are right about the letter.  It is useful for me to amend to get more clarity for myself.  But you are also right that (if it feels right to send it) "sometimes we need to say what we need to say, one time and know we put it out there". 

I think this letter is important for me as it is a final statement (especially given our respective ages).  I am also at the stage where her response is not really of significance.  I see who she is very clearly now, and also, I don't need anything from her.  Whether she responds or not is entirely up to her and I believe in a way irrelevant to me.  She can't really smear me to anyone anymore either as (1)  I have lost contact with my dysfunctional extended family and (2) she has fallen out with them all.  She has a couple of flying monkey friends probably but I am not in contact with them.  The only person we have in common is my 18 year old son.  This is unfortunate in a way, but at the same time, he is wise to her to a large degree, is better able to handle her, and they are not in contact much anyway.  However, I have also warned him very clearly and told him he must leave if she is in any way abusive to him. 

Re. closure, its difficult, as I think there is different kinds of closures.  Interestingly, I last wrote in Out of the FOG in early 2014 when I first had a massive falling out with my NM.  (I went looking for that post but its probably disappeared because the new website).  I had some kind of closure after our furious that row in 2014 because for the first time I saw that there was something seriously wrong with her, and something I needed to stay away from or at the very least be very aware of.

We were NC for over a year then.  She got in contact again eventually, and slowly we rebuilt.  I thought she had improved a little with age - more mellow or more passive I wasn't sure - or just more aware I wouldn't stand for any nonsense again.  However, what has become clear is that she did mellow a little but the same 'madness' is still at the core when emotionally triggered.  And I think, with advancing old age, it might even be on an upward trajectory now.

Yes, I was also a gentle, sweet sort of child, just like you Bloomie, its criminal that they couldn't see this, or any of our talents (my mother was tone deaf to anything but the most basic fact of my existence).  We lost out in some way as a result, but we still drove our own path as much as we could through the forest.  And they also lost out because they couldn't see us.  I am not all sweetness and light now I'm an adult!  And I'm semi-reclusive, partly because of myAndhealth and partly because of my nature.  But I do get to do more of what I want, which I enjoy, and I share myself in a small way, when I am feeling willing and able. 

Yes Bloomie, this is a wonderful site.  We all have our different experiences and circumstances.  But this is a place of understanding and comprehension, something not easy to find elsewhere.

[DistanceNotDefense]

I don't know why I'm writing this.  Perhaps because the ignoring narcissist mother is more of a rarity, and she is the rest of the time more normal? 

Hi Dandelion! And welcome.

I relate a lot to your relationship with your mother. Mine, too, is more the "ignoring" type in my adulthood, and the infrequency of her abuse (which is even more subtle than your M - she's more neglectful and gaslighting, and spurs my siblings to carry out the overt negativity instead I think), can make it feel confusing when you do try to break away, because they can be sweet sometimes (her hoovers are definitely so sweet as to be guilt-tripping).

My M has a way of being really neglectful and emotionally uncaring, and narcissistic, while still seeming almost warm and charming, like a martyr. She is definitely a martyr/ignoring type, and very clever in how she can emotionally provoke you with guilt and kindness.

I am very much in your same shoes. Lately her and my siblings have been hoovering me in various ways, even trying to reach me through mutual friends (thankfully they're wise to it) and while I'm not debating sending off a long letter about how I feel, I am debating reinstating the space I have asked for with a quick message - months ago I asked for space (how I describe NC to them) from family and that clearly isn't being respected or acknowledged, even when I was clear in the first place. Not only do they completely refuse to understand how they hurt me, but they also seem to completely and purposefully misapprehend what the word "space" means, and feel a right to contact my friends and blow up my phone.

I have been thinking: if it wasn't clear to them the first time, is it worth it breaking NC to say it again? Or is continued silence the better way, and I'm just in futility still trying to get some sort of closure from them by repeating the message, hoping something will be different when I should see them exactly as they are (mentally ill)?

What I'm trying to get around to saying is: whatever you do, do it out of function and finding peace, and not for closure. The only closure you will get will most likely not be from them - but from within yourself finally accepting the limits of who they are and what you can do to change them or the situation. It's really difficult though and I still find myself trying to take that turn back into "what if..."-ville, only to hit my head against a wall over and over, after a time that road closes off to you if you're dead set on loving and respecting yourself.

Be prepared that in reinstating your NC, the message may not be received at all and her behavior continues. Especially since your M is so covert (like mine) it's easy to remember the good and sweet times and think she might finally get it with some effort...just more effort from you....you just need to word things differently....etc. but it's all a ruse and a facade, and maybe even a waste of your time.

I know deep somewhere inside of me that the only sweetness and kindness my M dispenses is to get me to get over myself and my pain, to see my individuality as HER pain and an affront to her existence, and to be who she wants me to be for her, just like it's always been. It's always been conditional.

Your time and peace are the most precious currency. Make sure you're putting in just as much, if not more, into loving and accepting yourself compared to wondering what you can change and do differently! I really feel your pain and wish you luck.

[Dandelion]

Thank you for your welcome DistanceNotDefence.  I agree, it can be complicating, when they can be pleasant or nice.  My mum can even be "good company".  Though when I look back I realise, in her case, she is really rather emotionally disengaged and passive. Though I wouldn't say my own mother was a sweet, martyr, guilt-tripping type either.  She is much more 'self contained' in a way.  So though she is passive-aggressive and reserved, she doesn't really figure as a 'covert' in terms of many of the other general traits.  Maybe its a question how far they are along the N spectrum itself i.e. strong N traits to full-blown NPD ...

I hope you find a way to come to a decision that brings you peace in your dealings with your mother, as well as the siblings and friends who she is trying to influence :-(.   As far as my own letter is concerned, I am still undecided about sending it.  It is only a very short and straightforward letter, but its like I want to set things out clearly, one way or the other.  However, I am enjoying the quiet at the moment and just not having to deal with her.  I'll wait until I'm clearer.

Regardless, as you say 'closure' will most likely not come from them - but from finding peace within yourself, finally accepting the limits of who they are, and also the limits of what you can do or have been able to do.  And directing that love and energy, self-acceptance and respect that you deserve, to yourself.

[moglow]

Welcome, friend Dandelion - I'm also the child of an ignoring PD mother, one who has always somehow expected me to know what she's thinking and  provide the "appropriate" response she has in mind. I used to think it would be easier to justify no contact if she were stalking and pursuing me, but I'm not so sure of that either. The times she spewed her venom all over me are quite enough, without her hunting me down to do it.

Thing is, with ignoring mothers we're seen as the horrible awfuls who don't make time or wont care for those poor old women who are all alone in the world. Mine could be superficially very charming and charismatic, funny and playful even [although there's a nasty sharp edge to it too often - she has her fun in belittling others].

Regardless, as you say 'closure' will most likely not come from them - but from finding peace within yourself, finally accepting the limits of who they are, and also the limits of what you can do or have been able to do.  And directing that love and energy, self-acceptance and respect that you deserve, to yourself.

This is as good stuff, Dandelion, and I'm glad you see it. I'm a believer that no one else can give us closure - we find it within ourselves when we're ready to see it. Nothing another can do or say will truly do that, unless possibly it's that final straw kind of incident or confrontation that forces us to be fully aware.

But your letter - write it if you feel so compelled. Sit on it for a while as you think it through - I sure have! I've inevitably burned the letters I've written, letting the flame and ashes take away the pain and hopelessness. Mine has never listened to me in the past, I have no reason to believe writing it all out for her would change anything. So I do it for myself, to get it out and let it go.

Do what you need to do to lay this down for yourself, and let the chips fall where they may. Don't apologize for being who you are, and try to not have expectations of her when you send it. An old friend used as his tagline "expectations are disappointments under construction." It took a while for that one to sink in for me, but in essence, be who you are and give them space to do the same. I think our parents inevitably step up [down?] and show their true roots - and that's okay. We need to know those things. AND we need to know that's not our stuff, not to carry or change or explain.


Peace to you.

[Dandelion]

Thank you Moglow for sharing.  I appreciate being heard.  I wish you peace too.  And for Bloomie and Distance. 

♥️