So Many Love a Bully

[Hepatica]

I have been grappling with this all week and I'd love all of your thoughts.

There is this "thing" that I define as - mistaking arrogance for confidence - and I see it everywhere lately.

I think that someone can be kind and confident and be a great person and leader, but so many people I know seem to idolize people who are arrogant, seeing this as fearlessness, determination and pluck. If they see examples of cruelty in the person, they choose to overlook them.

I can't stand arrogance and cruelty in a person and when I see it I find it nearly unforgivable. And I'm wondering if I'm being too simplistic or judgemental?

One of my closest friends married one of the guys in our high school who was a cruel, albeit charismatic, yet arrogant bully. She is still the nicest person and had a really decent childhood - so I would have though that would have armed her somewhat. But she now has children with him (God help them) and he's a mean alcoholic and really enjoys hurting people, even when he's sober. He has completely drained her of her happiness which breaks my heart. I saw him for what he was in high school. He didn't hide it. And yet this very smart girl chose to overlook it?

I mean, when a person shows you who they are, as bullies tend to do with almost a neon light, why do people seem to love them more? Why do they often get popular status? At this point we must have reached close to a tipping point to understand what a lack of conscience looks like and understand it is a red flag.

Sometimes I think I am very unforgiving, but when I see bullying, vain tendencies I walk the other way while most of my friends and family do the opposite. They elevate the bully and fawn over him or her, or just seem to be able to over look the behaviour.

I have a very hard time with this. I find that I don't want to be around my two (older) closest friends because both of them have partners who pick on people openly.

I apologize if you are reading this and in relationship with someone who has these qualities. I can probably answer my own question really. The bully, arrogant type, wants what they want and they reel people in by being very nice to begin with. It's possible to be fooled and then you are hooked. I know this is what has happened with my girlfriend. She met him probably when she was too young and inexperienced and was in awe because he was so popular. It still makes me sad though.

I feel concerned about it in regards to positions of power as well, i.e. when a bully runs for politics or leadership positions in the work place, because they do tend to get leadership positions. People think they are confident and this overrides any concerning behaviour they might know of or have seen themselves.

[D.]

I've thought a lot about this topic as well.  About how people misinterpret arrogance as confidence.  Ultimately it's often a red flag for NPD as we've all noticed here. 

Before I got Out of the FOG I remember thinking that being the person who could get along w/the "mean" person somehow made me special.  And I've heard plenty of victims have that mentality.  The bully is nice to the victim.  The victim thinks that the bully will be nice to them, even if they're mean to others.  And that they somehow can "help" the bully be nice (co-dependent, enabling).  Then, at some point, the mask comes off and the bully victimizes the partner/friend/whoever the person who thought they are "special." But the victim is already "in-love" or attached in some way.  So they blindly follow and love the bully.  It came happen w/politics, with cults, with friendship, marriage.  A "relationship" between individuals or perhaps even between groups?

Once I came Out of the FOG I lost all interest in be-friending bullies.  No thanks.

But the more we all learn what real love looks like the more we will all learn this is a painful trap.

[ChillNow]

Dear Hepatica,

Great questions and observations!  There certainly seems to be an erosion of standards of personal conduct.  Bullies may get promoted more and build wealth faster - but on the backs of other people.  I agree that especially young and inexperienced people too often fall for glitz or charisma.  Better to live a modest but authentic life with a few but emotionally intelligent friends!

The best we can do is personally grow in wisdom and discernment regarding who we associate with and/or work for.  You write with discernment, not judgment, it is real.

[Janeite V]

Hepatica, you are wise and discerning, not simplistic and judgmental! The results speak for themselves.

In addition to the very insightful answers here, I believe a lot of it has to do with the license to act outside of social norms that some of these personality types provide their followers. Some people are intrigued by the idea of acting on their lowest and most base desires.

We see it on a small scale with things like tourists acting more boorishly than they would at home, and those over the Internet being more cruel than they would in person. With people becoming addicted to rage because of a Facebook algorithm. On a larger scale we see it in war crimes committed against civilians and through callous acts of racism, sexism, homophobia (anything that treats a group as less than fully human).

This social experiment needs a trigger warning. In the experiment, performance artist Marina Abramovic highlights how ordinary people will act given the license to do so:

https://lonewolfmag.com/most-terrifying-work-of-art-passivity/

[Hepatica]

Thank you. It feels reassuring to me that you understand.

It can, yet again, bring out this isolation factor, in that I have backed away from my two old friends, because being around them, I guess triggers the feelings I have from my childhood, when my uNPD mother bullied my father and sister. It hits home I guess and perhaps others who didn't grow up with bullies don't get the strong emotional reaction I get when I see someone exhibiting bullying behaviour.

I watched it happen in my previous job. The supervisor was so blatent in her bullying. She was audacious enough to overtly display it. She'd read people's personal applications in the staff room and laugh at the applicant. She'd choose the employees she favoured and make them stars and then cruelly pick on the quieter, very competent employees who didn't have it in them to fight back. She knew it. She always picked the bolder employees to favour and pull into to her inner circle. And then all the employees turned into cliques and you were on one side or the other. The job was hard enough and then we had to deal with this dynamic. But some people just loved this supervisor. Loved her. Idolized her.

Looking back on it, there is one thing that this supervisor never showed and that was humility. She had to be above everyone in a myriad of ways. I often wonder if she was even honest about her qualifications for the role. But we were so desperate to have someone with a Masters, I wonder, did anyone even check thoroughly?

When you see the cruelty, the manipulation and the arrogance, it seems to me now she could have fit the criteria for a PD. But instead she was given power over others because she came across as very confident.

Thanks for your responses. 

D. I understand what you're saying about the feeling of being treated special by a PD person. I definitely have had that in a more personal context and fallen into relationship with someone like that. It is almost like a hypnotism and once you're lured in, it's really hard to break that idea that this PD is person is wonderful. It happened to me and I was broken for a long time after I woke up. That feeling of betrayal is horrid and scarring.

Chillnow. Yes. Better to live a modest but authentic life. It is better. More and more, because I've become more aware of what is toxic, I have less people, but that is okay. The ups and downs have turned into a stable line and I am finally finding my creative voice.

Janeite, I think about it on a larger scale as well. I think there is a term, which has slipped my mind, for leaders of countries that exhibit all the characteristics of psychopathy and/or malignant narcissism and go into politics and get to the top. How quickly they divide countries and the atrocities that can come from this kind of leadership. (Stalin and Hitler fit the type...) Can't think of the term. Thankfully in democratic countries it is more difficult for them to become fully dangerous. But they still can be very damaging. Janeite, I never thought about Facebook causing people to be addicted to rage because of the algorithm, but that really makes sense and another thing to tackle. The CEO seems to be entirely lacking in empathy - red flag there.

Lots to think about and I have a feeling many of us have been getting a crash course lately due to world politics in what NPD and PD's look like when they are elevated to power.

Perhaps, the one thing that stands out as I re-read this is the idea of humility. It almost seems like this is the key quality that might give an indication of health in a person. It seems to get overlooked of course, but it is a massive sign of strength, although, I suppose if the person has other red flags, it could be a mask of false humility. The bottom line is, now as I've become more educated and aware, I notice all of this and I can't unsee it. That is age and experience I think, but also forums such as this, where we become much more educated about the specifics of PD's.

[Janeite V]

Hepatica, that really must have been such a creepy work environment. It's so disheartening to see others just going along with disrespect towards others, particularly those in a vulnerable position. On the bright side, those candidates likely dodged a bullet.

I can only imagine what she must have been doing that people did not know about! I sometimes wonder if flying monkeys might have an attitude of "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" when it comes to these sorts of supervisors, in the hopes that they will be spared if they go along with it.

Was it very toxic before the supervisor came along? Having temped quite a lot I have found that some places tend to chronically hire toxic people and have to continually rehire decent workers due to the high turnover.

I recall one situation in a break room where the manager was insulting her workers to her henchwoman right in front of me. I had already observed their attitude towards those workers on the floor but had hoped I was just too sensitive. Nope. Predictably, those targeted were the more emotionally vulnerable workers, those who actually did all of the work. One had just gotten out of a violent marriage. The place had been under performing and so they hired that manager thinking she was "tough" and would straighten them all out. She fired all the good people that had been working so hard to carry the place while it was under performing due to circumstances outside of their control. Any reasonable manager would have given them all raises.

I felt vindicated upon my return to find that the manager had been replaced, and the innocent workers she fired had moved on to workplaces that deserved them! She truly made a mess of things.

Fortunately, at other workplaces I have noticed that people have been very clued up on the toxic co-workers and managers. While a single person can make a workplace quite miserable, they lose much of their power if no one takes them seriously.

[makingachange]

Yes, I agree with you on this...so many do look up to the bully.  I think bullies just have this way of knowing how to work people.  They know how to win them over, but then once winning them over, start to at times show themselves more and more.

I think that bullies are really good at disguising themselves and hiding their "true nature"...

I think also some people are just attracted to their energy...the energy that they are superior...and it doesn't really matter what they say, because they have such high confidence.  <3

[Boat Babe]

Confidence is knowing your strengths and weaknesses. Arrogance is just knowing your strengths. A few rounds with a PD can leave you just focussed on your weaknesses.