Getting triggered by Nons who don't realise they are Enablers

[Hazy111]

Yes Hepatica,, the truth can be very very painful. "Denial" ( immature defense ) is the greatest weapon the PD has. How many people do you know are in denial?? Its scary.

[LemonLime]

I'm in the healthcare field.  I can't tell you how often this scenario has played out:

There's a patient who exhibits PD-like behavior.  Usually NPD or BPD.  Splits staff, verbally abuses staff.
One clinician decides that they "get" the patient and that the patient is being unduly negatively characterized by the rest of the staff, that he is "misunderstood".
That clinician becomes the "savior" and wears it like a badge of honor, as in "you people just don't have the patience I have and the genius I have".
This causes huge resentment around the clinic, as everyone else feels negatively judged.  The PD patient  senses this and LOVES it.
Usually the Golden Child clinician eventually gets discarded by the PD patient.
And the cycle starts again, but nobody dissects the situation to see what really happened and how to prevent it.   Nobody sees that the whole clinic was "played" by the PD.  So all that is left is resentments among the staff.   A PD fantasy come true!

[Hepatica]

Someone sent a meme on FB last week that is so true. It was a reminder from our local Domestic Assault Centre that said that telling someone who was abused that the abuser never treated them that way, is not okay. It speaks to what you are saying LemonLime, that PD's have learnt very well that they really only have to wear their mask and treat a few people nicely, and then go on to treat other people horribly and the abuser will always have someone who will stand up for them against the person (or people) they are harming. That sinister dark art of confusion and division. It must drive you crazy LemonLime. I saw it in my workplace and it broke me down.

I think that example speaks to the core of why we are so triggered by the Nons and enablers. It means that the abusive person rarely gets held accountable for their behaviour and those of us who have been abused never seem to get the full on support that would really help us heal.

Hazy111 You're so right. Denial is the best weapon the PD has. My uNPD father knows this so well and keeps my sister close. She is brilliant at her job (being the GC and enabler) and talks to everyone about my parents long committed marriage... Bleck. Denial.

[DistanceNotDefense]

One clinician decides that they "get" the patient and that the patient is being unduly negatively characterized by the rest of the staff, that he is "misunderstood".
That clinician becomes the "savior" and wears it like a badge of honor, as in "you people just don't have the patience I have and the genius I have".
This causes huge resentment around the clinic, as everyone else feels negatively judged.  The PD patient  senses this and LOVES it.

Wow this is so familiar...I've been in both work or friend dynamics like this many times. (And my FOO of course. Reminds me of my M)

In my personal experiences with things like this, it might be more than one person claiming to "understand" the PD and enabling them, thereby forming kind of a "clique." It eventually falls apart (with discard) or I don't know how it ends because I get as far away as I can....

It's so blatant how the enabler takes the PD's side and hoists themselves up - it's all about getting some power and protecting themselves from that very behavior they end up carrying out themselves. Dare I say it seems kind of cowardly? I feel bad for these types though, because I really believe they have no clue they do this or it's extremely unconscious.

[ChillNow]

Great question and answers.  I'm thinking that enablers mostly haven't (yet) understood the dynamics and dangers of PD - or are looking at something as a stand-alone situation and haven't seen the patterns.

Many of us didn't want to appear judgmental.  Also, in our religious training, some of us kept hearing terms like 'forgive seventy times seven.'  With a PD, though, that can easily tip over into enabling or at least questionable boundaries.

I think that in time, as we heal more and more, we will no longer be as triggered when we encounter enablers.

There is an encouraging YouTube video named 'When narcissism meets authenticity' by DoctorRamani.  She describes how an authentic (= wise) person smoothly dismisses narcissistic people without drama and without exhausting themselves.  Maybe some of that can be applied to enablers as well? 

[GettingOOTF]

I guess my next question is:

Does anyone have any advice on what to do once you have been triggered by a Non in your life? How do you get back to being grounded again and feeling sane and being able to interact with them without blaming them and their ignorance for what you've suffered at the hands of PDs?

I used to really battle with being triggered. I used to think it was my purpose in life to convince others of the “truth”.

Over the years I have taken a big step back. I see that peoples views and actions have nothing to do with me. They are formed by their very own experiences and they believe what they do for the same reasons I believe what I do.

I was really Codependent. Being triggered the way I was and trying to talk people around was part of my need for control that comes from Codependency. I read Codependent No More and I really started working on myself. I switched my focus from what others thought to my own behaviors and why I was triggered.

I’m hardly triggered at all now by things that used to send me spinning. I have a real “live and let live” when it comes to this stuff now. I simply don’t engage. It’s their life and they are allowed to make their own mistakes and hold their own view.

You are never ever ever going to convince someone that they are wrong. This is something they need to come to see on their own through their own experience and self work.

“What other people think of me is none of my business” is one of my mantras. In general what other people think and feel is 100% on them and I leave it there.

I really recommend learning about Codependency. Doing so has really opened up my life in so many ways.

All that said, I did also remove some people from my life. There are certain beliefs and views I simply won’t tolerate in my life. Rather than try to show people where they are are wrong I cut contact. I feel calmer and more supported surrounded by people who are supportive and loving in their views. It makes stressful events like the elections infinitely less stressful for me. I simply don’t let other people’s views and actions impact my life in any meaningful and disruptive way anymore.

[Hazy111]

You are never ever ever going to convince someone that they are wrong. This is something they need to come to see on their own through their own experience and self work.

PDs dont want to be cured as they dont think theres anything wrong with them. Its a narcissistic world. Switch on the TV, radio, go on line, family, friends, colleagues even you and you see narcissits. They are there hiding in plain site. Once you see it and recognise the telltales its blatantly obvious.

There are the covert narcs who love being in the company, friends of the more successful powerful  narc in their eyes. So they always make excuses for them. They are blind to their failings.

Its very hard to avoid, but avoidance is the best medicine .  Trust your instincts as people have said. If it doesnt feel right , it isnt.

[Hepatica]

A personal experience I had at work nearly broke me. I mean, you know the ugly cry, and the suicidal thoughts? I had stood up for something I believed in regarding self-care at work, and it went against the wishes of one of the meanest NPD employees I've come across in my working career. She was strategic in that she infiltrated the union reps in the first few months after she was hired and made them personal friends ie. went out for drinks with one of them and told them everything about our department, including the people she hated.

She hated me and while I can never have ultimate proof, a true friend went to the union for something related to her position, a personal thing, and that union rep., the mean employee's new friend, picked her brain about ME. She said things to my friend that were complete fabrications, things she thought that I'd done, that I had not done. She tried to get this friend on side with her to destroy me. My friend came to me instead and told me what she had said about me.

I remember standing there in the parking lot with her when she told me and falling apart. I was scared to go to work. I was scared that if I ever had an issue, I could not go to the union. I had been a pretty naive person. I really thought that people were mostly good. I have never felt such fear and betrayal and this ultimate sense that I was in danger, because they were tearing apart my reputation with lies. Many people enabled this. Some people stayed neutral.

After it happened, when I went to meetings, if there was one empty chair beside me, people would stand, rather than sit beside me. These people destroyed my reputation and I could not get it back, because many people believed the union rep. They didn't just do it to me. They did it to others, often the brightest and best of the group in my department. Complete lies about the people. One of my former friends there, believed this ridiculous lie about my co-worker. I couldn't believe she chose to believe the lie verses the rebuttal by the co-worker, who tried to stand up for herself.

I had a nervous breakdown after a year of micro-aggressions by many of the enablers at that workplace. I was a good worker and I found joy in that job, but I have not worked since.

I don't know how to stop this kind of enabling. I think that is why I am so triggered by it now.

[LemonLime]

Wow, these are powerful stories.  I was forever changed after my first experience up-close-and-personal with a Narc, who happened to be my business co-owner.   I hadn't known her well before going into business with her, as I had been in a desperate situation looking for work and hadn't bothered to get to know her well before making a deal to start the business with her.   She was beautiful and successful in her field and very personable.  She made me feel lucky to be "chosen" to go into business with her.  But over the year we worked together she systematically abused all the employees.  And when she then tried to cheat me out of money and I didn't let her (I hired an attorney), she began trying to destroy my livelihood.   She tried to destroy my reputation in the medical field, and she actually called to cancel my accounts (impersonating my voice) with my various vendors so that my expected shipments of supplies would not arrive.  I could hardly believe this could happen in real life, it sounded like something out of "Fatal Attraction" or "The Hand that Rocks the Cradle" or some psycho movie.   The only way I got her to stop pursuing me was to have my attorney send her a registered letter that told her to cease and desist her harassment, to never speak to me again and to only communicate with me through my attorney.   He intimated he would get a restraining order against her if she persisted.   She backed off, we ended our business contract and I high-tailed the heck away from her never to see her again, thank Goodness.

I truly believe that were it not for hiring the attorney I would have been destroyed by her.   Some of these PD's will only be stopped by a lawsuit.  In fact I found out later she had at least 2 other lawsuits against her for various business deals gone bad, where she had pulled similar stunts with her plumber and contractor, trying to avoid paying them for work they did for her.

I was quite the naive and trusting person.  Why wouldn't I be?   These narcs can "smell" the naive and trusting folks and take them down like an injured gazelle.
I was chosen by her the same way a sex predator chooses a naive and lonely child to abuse. I will never be quite the same after this experience, and it was very very traumatic but I did learn to recognize narcissism.

Which is why now I see it quite a bit around me.

The question I have learned to ask myself is not "What can I do to make them understand, or to see my point of view?"
It's now "Is this someone who is healthy and makes my life better?".    If the answer is "no" I get as far away as possible and never look back.

Granted this can be much more difficult to do if the PD is family, or is in charge of your country or something.    But at least recognizing the dysfunction and knowing that it is not mine to try to change the PD saves a ton of emotional energy and time.

You guys give very good advice and it helps me a lot.  Thanks.

[DistanceNotDefense]

The question I have learned to ask myself is not "What can I do to make them understand, or to see my point of view?"
It's now "Is this someone who is healthy and makes my life better?".    If the answer is "no" I get as far away as possible and never look back.

I totally agree LemonLime. I'm really starting to feel that any desire to change, have an effect on, or control PDs, bullies, enablers etc. and hoping to stop them or get them to understand or change their ways, is like being in quicksand. No use fighting back, no use trying to "show them the light." The more you struggle, the deeper you sink. Best to just disengage and move on, and get the hell away, mentally and physically!...grey rock, medium chill, no JADEing, boundaries, NC and all that...

Like I've noticed some of the mods say - we can't do things in the hope to control, punish, or even enlighten a PD, only to find peace in our own lives. I look back on my life and the only solution to narc tendencies/PDs has been putting as much distance between me and them as I can!

[Hazy111]

A personal experience I had at work nearly broke me. I mean, you know the ugly cry, and the suicidal thoughts? I had stood up for something I believed in regarding self-care at work, and it went against the wishes of one of the meanest NPD employees I've come across in my working career. She was strategic in that she infiltrated the union reps in the first few months after she was hired and made them personal friends ie. went out for drinks with one of them and told them everything about our department, including the people she hated.

She hated me and while I can never have ultimate proof, a true friend went to the union for something related to her position, a personal thing, and that union rep., the mean employee's new friend, picked her brain about ME. She said things to my friend that were complete fabrications, things she thought that I'd done, that I had not done. She tried to get this friend on side with her to destroy me. My friend came to me instead and told me what she had said about me.

I remember standing there in the parking lot with her when she told me and falling apart. I was scared to go to work. I was scared that if I ever had an issue, I could not go to the union. I had been a pretty naive person. I really thought that people were mostly good. I have never felt such fear and betrayal and this ultimate sense that I was in danger, because they were tearing apart my reputation with lies. Many people enabled this. Some people stayed neutral.

After it happened, when I went to meetings, if there was one empty chair beside me, people would stand, rather than sit beside me. These people destroyed my reputation and I could not get it back, because many people believed the union rep. They didn't just do it to me. They did it to others, often the brightest and best of the group in my department. Complete lies about the people. One of my former friends there, believed this ridiculous lie about my co-worker. I couldn't believe she chose to believe the lie verses the rebuttal by the co-worker, who tried to stand up for herself.

I had a nervous breakdown after a year of micro-aggressions by many of the enablers at that workplace. I was a good worker and I found joy in that job, but I have not worked since.

I don't know how to stop this kind of enabling. I think that is why I am so triggered by it now.

Wow that is scarily familiar. With me it was a manager. Looking back now he was a paranoid socio/psychopath.  Id see him bully and smear  other co workers to me . Then it was me on the end of it. I didnt twig. I was in his cross hairs as others had been. I was subjected to disciplinary actions that were designed to force me out.  I eventually resigned after being off sick with the stress of it.

Hes still there, no doubt plotting and scheming against others. They never stop. As someone said to me at work, its always someone in the cross hairs, make sure its not you. I heard bits and pieces from various sources and everything fell into place.  There was no one on my side. They all kept their heads down.  A fellow worker had been sacked in the time i was of sick. He was one of their best employees but the pyscho took against him even though they had been colleagues for years . He explained to me that it was the manager that had done for me. He said he had listened to him rubbishing me for years. 

You have my sincerest sympathy.

[Hepatica]

Same for you Hazy111, my sincerest sympathy.

I think these stories are why this post is so important. The question is when do the enablers take out the psychopath/malignant narcissist, once it is so evidently clear they are toxic and destroying not only the work environment but good people's lives???

I am stuck about this. I guess the only thing is to document, document everything. The mean employee that went after me, began a pattern where she did the same to other employees. One in particular that had enabled her for years, and the mean girl, took even her down. But.... everything was documented and a good, thick file was made over the years and eventually the mean employee left. She must have had one too many talkings to by the upper realms who were getting very tired of her very obvious toxicity (due to the file which could not be denied.)

I have no idea what you do when it's a manager though. That's really tough. I'd definitely keep documentation and keep observing. I suppose with many people, they really just have to quietly and secretly seek other work.

That said, one of the managers at the old workplace of mine, was forced out. She was very toxic and divisive. People caught on and eventually the higher ups got rid of her.

[Hazy111]

Hepatica,

There are many many stories similar to yours and my own on this site. My manager was a very loyal and hard working bully. He would always go the extra mile for the company and worked long hours. He did  work others didnt want to.  Maybe this contributed to his mood. But no one made him , he was just so chronically insecure about his position. He treated his staff abysmally, ranting and raving, reducing people to tears, but it was a local office , so only a few staff witnessed it and he knew he could get away with it. He was very cunning. Some days he was life and soul, laughing and joking, the next... A female colleague suffered from MS and he told me he thought she was "putting it on" . That was his level.

Another female colleague once snapped and complained about his treatment of her. There was a nominal investigation, with someone from head office came, and asked a few staff what he was like , but he never asked me. nothing changed.  A year later when the company was making redundancies, guess who was made redundant...her.

I once used to listen to a phone in radio show and every topic under the sun was discussed, and the host said the one subject that got the most responses was workplace bullying. It starts in the home, then school then work.

Like i said i think PD is the norm. What gets discussed mainly on this site, they are the extremes, they come in all shapes and sizes.