Gray Rocking Turned Into Anger/Threats/No Contact?

[makingachange]

SO, A couple of weeks ago, I decided to go gray rock...and I thought that it was going to magically fix everything.     However, it seriously turned things into a mess! 

My relationship with my mother has not been the best for years.  This is no surprise to me, because of our past and my childhood.  But I guess in a sense I was in denial about how bad this truly was.  For years I tried to just go with it, I was in the fog, and always made out to be the scapegoat, as I questioned my whole family many times.  I don't know what happened, I guess I started to see the reality of our situation.  We don't talk on the phone, and when we did talk on the phone it was as though it was my responsibility always to call her.  I decided to stop calling, because honestly, after getting off the phone I regretted even telling her personal details about me, and felt bad afterwards.  I also realized after looking back at so many texts that it is all about her and my father.  She will ask about me...but it is done in a way that is like you may ask a stranger....not a whole lot of care goes into it.

When I started gray rocking, it wasn't really all that different than what I have been doing in our conversations/texts...the only big thing I changed was that I was not giving her the praise and lifting up them for every little thing they did.  I really just was to the point that I didn't care...and I couldn't keep on doing this...when I have an infant that never gets asked about...I have lots of things in my life...but she never seemed to care.  It was so one sided.  And, I did end up catching her in a rather big lie a few months back...that led me to the gray rock.

WELL, after going gray rock for around 1 week, she caught me, and called me out on me being distant.  I got guilt trips every few days...and then out of the blue she asked for us to call her.  I felt deep in my heart this was a trap, so ...I just said...perhaps we could do that another time.  Well, this response kicked in the anger...big time! 

She responded angrily and aggressively immediately when I said that...the comment she made was so rude and brash that I didn't even respond.  I didn't respond for a few days because...I don't have to deal with the anger.

When I didn't respond, she ended up sending me a message a few days later ...telling me that she knows something's wrong with me basically and that she just knows it.  I went on to say that I was doing great...but, that was not enough.  Then after saying that I was doing good...that was the wrong answer, she said that I don't even sound myself...and that if I don't call her she was going to come to my house.  I went on to say I am fine...

The next day she asks if she can come to my house...and I tell her that isn't a good day...but maybe another time.  Well, she didn't care....it had to be that day and was being very aggressive.  She then made more demands that I call her now...and if I didn't then she was coming to my house and started threatening that if I don't call she was going to get a wellness check done...and continued on and on and on into guilt trips and overly aggressive, rude comments.

I basically told her that if she did a wellness check, then that was the end.

She kept on sending threatening texts, etc., so, I ended up calling her on the phone.  I said that I was doing great ...that I'm having a good life...and here is the wellness check...and she can leave me alone, and I hung up.

My DH ended up having to send messages to her as well because things were over the top.  He told her about a couple little things that I was upset about...and one was me catching her in a lie...well, he confronted her about that...and guess what...she made up a lie to try to cover the previous lie she had told me...he called her out on it again....and then she ends up with guilt trip/pity party.

Basically, she sent another message a day or so later saying that she wants to be in my life.  Then she asks my DH if I am having problems? ..and is sorry....that she can't fix what she did, but just to know she is sorry.  He told her I'm doing great, which I am ...but, it makes me go...wow, that they think I have problems?

She never apologized for her outburst when I told her "maybe some other time we can talk on the phone"...and didn't even say anything about her outbursts....it's like she cannot see how angry, aggressive, and threatening she is...

At one point I told her to stop threatening me...and she says...this is not a threat...it is for real...just wait and see.

The day before yesterday sends me a text she loves me....which I did not respond to.

This last week has been over the top...big time.  It is like, wow, I remember this side of the two of them as a child...but seeing it up close and personal as an adult really took me back to my childhood days.  It has brought up a lot of stuff from my childhood...memories...and just feeling scared of them.

I am happy to say that all of my responses were very gray rock...I was not emotional in any of my texts...and I just was to the point.  I'm thankful for my DH...to say something...to stand up for me...and to be a great support as he always has been.  Haven't heard anything for 2 days...

But, I feel right now as though everything has changed...It is not like I could ever just jump back into a relationship with her at this point with all the anger towards me...the threats....pity parties....and aggression.  It feels ....I don't even know what it feels like. 

Any insight to this...or any advice would be appreciated...I guess I just kind of want to get this out...and I felt like maybe someone else could relate. 


I am so appreciative of this community, I am truly happy and grateful to have found this outlet.  Honestly, if I had not seen all of your stories and situations ...I may have just caved in and went with her games again and again and again. 

[daughter]

I'm a long time poster who several years ago posted far more frequently as I processed my transition from SG dutiful daughter "gray rock" to quietly NC. I never announced NC; I simply discontinued initiating my thrice-weekly duty-calls and weekly dinner invites to NM and nNF. 

Your experiences are similar to mine in regards to NM; she'd rage at my supposed infractions (I was poster-girl SG dutiful daughter super-achiever), disdainful and disrespectful when not outraged, and extremely controlling and demanding. NF demanded full compliance, his principal priority being "keep your mom happy" while resolutely dodging her himself. It was a dynamic that required me to be servile, exactingly obedient, and self-effacing. I was allowed no feelings.

So when I stopped "gray rock" tolerance, and began withdrawing, physically via less direct contact, and emotionally, by nonconfrontationally allowing my needs and feelings to color my judgment and actions, my parents were enraged.  After last trigger event, the "big bad behavior episode" that compelled me to act, via a personal time-out on my part, NM never contacted me while NF hovered and berated with great force. Neither N-parent tactic worked. I'm now NC for nearly a decade.

My parents made no effort to reconcile. And me, reinforced by several years of therapy, graciously transitioned into calm NC acceptance. I was in my mid-50s when NC began. I realize I had postponed that decision for far too long, due to my good girl SG dutiful daughter tendencies. The damage my parents caused my own family, my marriage, and to my own self-esteem, was enormous, and unforgivable, when evaluated clear-eyed and via therapist input.

I'm wishing you the fortitude to make your good sense decisions too. You are not obligated to serve your mother in perpetuity; her malevolence, disdain, and disrespect have consequences.  Our lives are OUR lives too. 

[Hepatica]

This is so common, makingachange.

When there is any alternation in the relationship, the toxic parent senses it. A caring, self-aware parent would check in, tell their child they love them and that they are there for them when needed. A toxic parent will take change personally. They want full control over their child, even when their child is fully grown and has a family of their own. I don't know what it is, but perhaps the idea that they need the child in their old age to take care of them, or if it is just merely they need to control people.

As well, toxic parents are incredibly fragile and insecure, so when you begin to call less, they think it's about them and they've done something. Often they have. That's the sad part. But they figure they can bully their child with old tactics they used when the child was young. That's when the gaslighting comes in and the denial and the blame and the, there is something wrong with you, not me.

Never will they consider changing. Because that would admit they are human and have failings.

Guess what though. You don't have to be your mom's best friend. You don't have to be her care taker. You especially don't have to if she is aggressive, reactive, making up lies and using pity to control you. That is mean girl level elementary behaviour she should have learned long ago is not appropriate. She cannot force you to relate with her by being aggressive to you. You have free will and you decide if you want someone aggressive and manipulative in your life now.

She will use whatever it takes to get you back into the previous role she had for you. You're doing the right thing by giving no reaction. Keep chill.

It is so text book that when a person sets a boundary, or makes a change with someone toxic that they freak out. It pretty much confirms the person is disordered. You've just gotten a load of confirming information about your mother.

There's nothing you can do about her bad behavior and I know that hurts.Taking care of your wellbeing is all you really have control over and figuring out from this point on how much contact you want from her. If she continues to be aggressive and threatening you with well checks, I can only imagine your contact will be even less. It only makes sense.

[waterfalls]

makingachange, I'm so sorry you're going through all of this with your mother. With an infant, this time should be about you and your needs, not about your mother. This is the time when you should be given support, love, understanding, and help, not the other way around. You have enough on your plate right now and shouldn't have to worry about the delicate ego of an NPD mother.

It's good that you have a supportive husband, one who even tries to handle your mother on your behalf. It means so much to have a good and understanding partner.

As I'm learning myself, a relationship with an NPD parent is one-sided. It will always be about their needs, not yours. Even though they may seem loving, caring, and interested in you at times, those times are fleeting and they will always make whatever about you and your life about them. You not only become their entertainment, you also become an extension of them. Your success or failures reflect on them. They don't know boundaries, they don't know when to back off and give you space. They make you feel guilty and afraid, like a little kid, if you don't check up on them or please them (and you can never please them). They will not apologize for doing something wrong or hurting you because they see themselves as being right all the time. Everyone else is the problem, not them.

I'm an HSP (highly sensitive person) and I like getting along with everyone. I don't like conflict, and it's not in me to stay upset with anyone for too long. I like moving on as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, that's not the case with NPDs. They need drama, they thrive on drama. And they can't see that their drama is tearing you apart. They don't have much empathy for others.

daughter and Hepatica made some good points. Sounds like this is also your time to decide what kind of a relationship you want with your mother. What do you want out of your life? What will make you happy and give you peace? What will give your marriage peace? What do you want your child exposed to?

I know how it is to want to be a good daughter, to have some kind of relationship with your NPD parent than no relationship. I'm still trying to figure things out myself. If you haven't heard anything from your mother for 2 days, maybe that's a good thing. Maybe this is your time to have some quiet from her, to be good to yourself, and to evaluate things.

If she does call again, you can decide to pick up the phone or not. As someone told me, your silence also says something. If you don't want to ignore her call, maybe you might want to say that you need some time and you will call her back in 2 weeks, a month, or whatever. Do keep in mind that NPDs don't like being given ultimatums or boundaries. She may perceive this as a threat.

Dealing with an NPD parent is so difficult and there are no easy answers. I really know it's easier said than done, but try to focus on your child and your husband. Be good and kind to yourself. Do what feels best and right to you. *Hugs* and best wishes.

[makingachange]

I'm a long time poster who several years ago posted far more frequently as I processed my transition from SG dutiful daughter "gray rock" to quietly NC. I never announced NC; I simply discontinued initiating my thrice-weekly duty-calls and weekly dinner invites to NM and nNF. 

Your experiences are similar to mine in regards to NM; she'd rage at my supposed infractions (I was poster-girl SG dutiful daughter super-achiever), disdainful and disrespectful when not outraged, and extremely controlling and demanding. NF demanded full compliance, his principal priority being "keep your mom happy" while resolutely dodging her himself. It was a dynamic that required me to be servile, exactingly obedient, and self-effacing. I was allowed no feelings.

So when I stopped "gray rock" tolerance, and began withdrawing, physically via less direct contact, and emotionally, by nonconfrontationally allowing my needs and feelings to color my judgment and actions, my parents were enraged.  After last trigger event, the "big bad behavior episode" that compelled me to act, via a personal time-out on my part, NM never contacted me while NF hovered and berated with great force. Neither N-parent tactic worked. I'm now NC for nearly a decade.

My parents made no effort to reconcile. And me, reinforced by several years of therapy, graciously transitioned into calm NC acceptance. I was in my mid-50s when NC began. I realize I had postponed that decision for far too long, due to my good girl SG dutiful daughter tendencies. The damage my parents caused my own family, my marriage, and to my own self-esteem, was enormous, and unforgivable, when evaluated clear-eyed and via therapist input.

I'm wishing you the fortitude to make your good sense decisions too. You are not obligated to serve your mother in perpetuity; her malevolence, disdain, and disrespect have consequences.  Our lives are OUR lives too.

Thank you so much for sharing your personal situation with me...it helps knowing that I'm not the only one with a FOO like this.  I hope that you are doing well.

Yes, I am starting to awaken more and more to the fact that my life is my life...and not anyone else's to dictate for me.  =)  So, I do feel that I am beginning to see things much more clearly, even though it is quite painful to realize. 

She has started to text me every night now...telling me she loves me...never really saying that she is sorry, and keeps sweeping it under the rug, wants things to go back to normal...but, with all that is in me, I just can't this time.  With the threats, the aggression, anger, and temper, towards me...I can't just let this go.  But, I also am not sure what to say.  I don't reply to these messages...but, she is now messaging DH about when can she talk with me and my children ----where she will never bring up her actions and act like they never happened.

I feel like she is just pretending that she didn't do anything wrong...when he called her out on her behavior all was said was ..."I'm sorry".  It seems she keeps thinking that it is just me...and that I'll "get over" this.

Did your parents try to reach out to you...did they ever take responsibility for their actions?   Or, did you just never hear from them anymore?  =) 

I hope you have a great rest of your day!

[makingachange]

This is so common, makingachange.

When there is any alternation in the relationship, the toxic parent senses it. A caring, self-aware parent would check in, tell their child they love them and that they are there for them when needed. A toxic parent will take change personally. They want full control over their child, even when their child is fully grown and has a family of their own. I don't know what it is, but perhaps the idea that they need the child in their old age to take care of them, or if it is just merely they need to control people.

As well, toxic parents are incredibly fragile and insecure, so when you begin to call less, they think it's about them and they've done something. Often they have. That's the sad part. But they figure they can bully their child with old tactics they used when the child was young. That's when the gaslighting comes in and the denial and the blame and the, there is something wrong with you, not me.

Never will they consider changing. Because that would admit they are human and have failings.

Guess what though. You don't have to be your mom's best friend. You don't have to be her care taker. You especially don't have to if she is aggressive, reactive, making up lies and using pity to control you. That is mean girl level elementary behaviour she should have learned long ago is not appropriate. She cannot force you to relate with her by being aggressive to you. You have free will and you decide if you want someone aggressive and manipulative in your life now.

She will use whatever it takes to get you back into the previous role she had for you. You're doing the right thing by giving no reaction. Keep chill.

It is so text book that when a person sets a boundary, or makes a change with someone toxic that they freak out. It pretty much confirms the person is disordered. You've just gotten a load of confirming information about your mother.

There's nothing you can do about her bad behavior and I know that hurts.Taking care of your wellbeing is all you really have control over and figuring out from this point on how much contact you want from her. If she continues to be aggressive and threatening you with well checks, I can only imagine your contact will be even less. It only makes sense.

Hi Hepatica!

Thank you so much for your insight on this!   Yes, you are so right that our own wellbeing is so important...but, I find it hard to really focus on that...because of the ongoing stress I feel about this.  I know I just have to stay steady with this and focus on myself and my own family.

Yes, so she has started texting me every night again...telling me she loves me...sends DH messages about when can she talk to me and my children...---it is as if she is just waiting until she thinks I'll get over this...like I'll just go...oh ok...sure...let's do it again.  She is not really taking any responsibility at all about this...and for her to think I want to talk or whatever is mind blowing...that I'll want to go back to how things were before.

I don't reply to the messages...because I honestly have nothing left to say. 

But, I also feel unsure of what to do at this point...I find myself saying..."well am I making this bigger than it really is?"  I know this is her motive and what she wants me to feel like...but I do have that feeling from time to time.  I reread my journal and all of this, and that helps me to see that no, this isn't right.  I blame this on my childhood the fact that I have been the scapegoat all my life...it really makes you question yourself on a deep level.

I'm not sure where to go from here...or what to do...to respond, not to respond...I just know that I can't keep going on with this. 

Thank you again for your guidance...I truly appreciate you and your insights!  <3

[makingachange]

makingachange, I'm so sorry you're going through all of this with your mother. With an infant, this time should be about you and your needs, not about your mother. This is the time when you should be given support, love, understanding, and help, not the other way around. You have enough on your plate right now and shouldn't have to worry about the delicate ego of an NPD mother.

It's good that you have a supportive husband, one who even tries to handle your mother on your behalf. It means so much to have a good and understanding partner.

As I'm learning myself, a relationship with an NPD parent is one-sided. It will always be about their needs, not yours. Even though they may seem loving, caring, and interested in you at times, those times are fleeting and they will always make whatever about you and your life about them. You not only become their entertainment, you also become an extension of them. Your success or failures reflect on them. They don't know boundaries, they don't know when to back off and give you space. They make you feel guilty and afraid, like a little kid, if you don't check up on them or please them (and you can never please them). They will not apologize for doing something wrong or hurting you because they see themselves as being right all the time. Everyone else is the problem, not them.

I'm an HSP (highly sensitive person) and I like getting along with everyone. I don't like conflict, and it's not in me to stay upset with anyone for too long. I like moving on as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, that's not the case with NPDs. They need drama, they thrive on drama. And they can't see that their drama is tearing you apart. They don't have much empathy for others.

daughter and Hepatica made some good points. Sounds like this is also your time to decide what kind of a relationship you want with your mother. What do you want out of your life? What will make you happy and give you peace? What will give your marriage peace? What do you want your child exposed to?

I know how it is to want to be a good daughter, to have some kind of relationship with your NPD parent than no relationship. I'm still trying to figure things out myself. If you haven't heard anything from your mother for 2 days, maybe that's a good thing. Maybe this is your time to have some quiet from her, to be good to yourself, and to evaluate things.

If she does call again, you can decide to pick up the phone or not. As someone told me, your silence also says something. If you don't want to ignore her call, maybe you might want to say that you need some time and you will call her back in 2 weeks, a month, or whatever. Do keep in mind that NPDs don't like being given ultimatums or boundaries. She may perceive this as a threat.

Dealing with an NPD parent is so difficult and there are no easy answers. I really know it's easier said than done, but try to focus on your child and your husband. Be good and kind to yourself. Do what feels best and right to you. *Hugs* and best wishes.

Thank you so very much for your insight and thoughts on this!  It has been extremely helpful! 

Well, I started hearing from her again...nightly messages of how she loves me.  No apologies really about her outbursts, threats, and aggression...like it never happened.  Paints me out to be the one with the problem...always has. 

I have not responded to any messages....but she is messaging DH...asking when can she talk to me and the children....---acts like this is just normal and wants me to jump back into this like everything is peachy.  I guess I've done that most of my life...get back in line...do the same thing....But, this time feels different.  This time I feel like she really stepped over my boundaries and was very rude/aggressive towards me.

It feels like if you were married or dating someone like this ...that beat you up and then said how much they love you to try to mask what they do...and you take them back...but they never change.

I never thought I would be in this position really...but, it feels like everything has become so clear to me...and it is shocking. 

Not sure what to do from here...not sure to respond...not to respond...or what....  I feel like if I keep on not responding it will go back into a rage/guilt/and the same kind of thing.

Thank you again for your guidance!!!  I hope you are having a lovely day.  <3

[Hepatica]

It feels like if you were married or dating someone like this ...that beat you up and then said how much they love you to try to mask what they do...and you take them back...but they never change.

You are correct. This is an abuse cycle, seen in many relationships that are defined as abusive, disordered or toxic. It is a form of  psychological manipulation. But the problem is, the disordered person can not/will not change their behavior. They will revert to abuse eventually.

[waterfalls]

I guess I've done that most of my life...get back in line...do the same thing....But, this time feels different.  This time I feel like she really stepped over my boundaries and was very rude/aggressive towards me.

It feels like if you were married or dating someone like this ...that beat you up and then said how much they love you to try to mask what they do...and you take them back...but they never change.

I never thought I would be in this position really...but, it feels like everything has become so clear to me...and it is shocking.

Not sure what to do from here...not sure to respond...not to respond...or what....

makingachange, I hear you, I really do. Sadly, it sounds like were going through similar things except unlike the texts you get from your mother, I get silence. Both situations aren't good.

This time, things feel different for me, too. Maybe this is a sign to both of us that we can't fall back to the same pattern, to remind ourselves that the words of love and the appearance of caring from our mothers are not genuine, as we would like them to be. We have to remind ourselves, even in good times, that "they never change." That's a hard thing to accept because we want to feel that our mothers, of all people, are selfless but not all of them are.

About not being sure what to do, I'm in your boat. I feel like I'm in unchartered waters right now. I feel like I'm going to be upsetting, even alienating, my mother and other family members by whatever I do now. I also know that I have to take care of myself and my marriage, things I haven't done properly for too long. Listen to your feelings, go with your gut-feeling. It sounds like you have a good, understanding, and supportive husband. Focus on him and focus on your child, because they are your main family unit (even though my family unit is two, me and my husband, it's still a family unit and it's my main family unit; I need to remember that). And of course, write here and get support from those who really understand what it's like; there are good people here.

Take good care of yourself--be kind to yourself and show yourself some love (why is it always hardest to show love and kindness to ourselves??). Hang in there.

[makingachange]

I guess I've done that most of my life...get back in line...do the same thing....But, this time feels different.  This time I feel like she really stepped over my boundaries and was very rude/aggressive towards me.

It feels like if you were married or dating someone like this ...that beat you up and then said how much they love you to try to mask what they do...and you take them back...but they never change.

I never thought I would be in this position really...but, it feels like everything has become so clear to me...and it is shocking.

Not sure what to do from here...not sure to respond...not to respond...or what....

makingachange, I hear you, I really do. Sadly, it sounds like were going through similar things except unlike the texts you get from your mother, I get silence. Both situations aren't good.

This time, things feel different for me, too. Maybe this is a sign to both of us that we can't fall back to the same pattern, to remind ourselves that the words of love and the appearance of caring from our mothers are not genuine, as we would like them to be. We have to remind ourselves, even in good times, that "they never change." That's a hard thing to accept because we want to feel that our mothers, of all people, are selfless but not all of them are.

About not being sure what to do, I'm in your boat. I feel like I'm in unchartered waters right now. I feel like I'm going to be upsetting, even alienating, my mother and other family members by whatever I do now. I also know that I have to take care of myself and my marriage, things I haven't done properly for too long. Listen to your feelings, go with your gut-feeling. It sounds like you have a good, understanding, and supportive husband. Focus on him and focus on your child, because they are your main family unit (even though my family unit is two, me and my husband, it's still a family unit and it's my main family unit; I need to remember that). And of course, write here and get support from those who really understand what it's like; there are good people here.

Take good care of yourself--be kind to yourself and show yourself some love (why is it always hardest to show love and kindness to ourselves??). Hang in there.

Hi Waterfalls!

I hope you are doing well!  Thank you so much for your response.

Yes, I agree with you, it seems like we are in a similar kind of situation.

Right now I feel torn...torn to just go back and pretend nothing happened just to feel like things are back to a normal...and torn to sadness in a sense because I am starting to realize that I'll never have that relationship with them that I always wanted.

I am blown away also that they kept gas lighting me...making me think what I saw didn't really happen.  But after several days of gas lighting me...and me never responding, it has been no messages for 2 days now.

Part of me says just be the good girl and go back and text them...but, I feel like I have awakened too much to just do that.  I feel if I do go back and even say anything, they will only continue to think I am the one with the problem and never admit to how aggressive and mean they were to me.  My intuition keeps saying to just back away and keep my distance to not respond...to just focus on me...but, another part of me says...just go back. 

I know my intuition says no, and I do believe this is what I should follow...I just know they are doing a smear campaign, I know this deep in my heart.  I know they think what they did was nothing...and the lies they use to cover previous lies just can't be ignored.

I feel going back would be a big insult...but, I guess I wish I could have something that won't ever have.

Sorry for my rambles on this!  I'm curious how you are coping and feeling right now?  Yes, it does feel like a completely new path that I've never been on and it feels uncomfortable.   But, my intuition knows I just can't go back like this.

Any thoughts?

[waterfalls]

Hi, makingachange! I hope you're taking good care of yourself and being kind to yourself. As I'm finding out, making the time to replenish myself (yoga, meditation, reading, cycling) helps to calm me down and feel better in general. Do whatever fills your cup.

Yes, unfortunately we're both on a difficult, long road with our mothers. And yes, this road feels uncomfortable to me as well. Coming from a European family, I had it drilled into me how you're supposed to be there for your family, especially your parents (if you've watched My Big Fat Greek Wedding, you have an idea of how my family operates--no boundaries, everyone living in each other's pockets, everyone knowing everyone's business, etc.). So both cultural and family pressure play into my situation.

I've been going through the repetitive cycle with my mother--blowup, awkwardness, temporary change (space between calls), things seem to be going well, back to the routine (calling everyday, being the over-dutiful daughter), then blowup again. The thing with NPD parents, which I'm sure many here have experienced, is that you go through periods when they seem normal and caring, and you want to feel that they are normal parents. The problem is that they're not, and any little thing at any time can cause a blowup and shake you back into reality. This has been my story for far too long.

12 years ago I put physical distance between me and my mother by moving over 2,000 miles away for my job. I enjoy my job (most days), I love where I live, and I met my husband here who's good to me and with whom I have a good life. Even though I created physical distance, I haven't yet created emotional distance. That, I'm working on right now. And it's tough. It's about making boundaries (like how often you call) and that's a difficult thing to do with a narcissist.

This last blowup with my mother really was the last straw for me. To have her put me down when I was having a bad day rather than be supportive, for her to be offended when I told her that her words hurt me, and to say that I treated her badly and she deserves more respect from me...that was really too much for me. Not that I didn't know it before (but I wanted to believe otherwise), my mother is not a safe person. I have to put in the forefront of my mind that I can't tell her anything important; anything important I will share with my husband and 2 close friends I trust.

I'm looking at things from this perspective. When my husband's grandparents were in assisted living in their 90s, we would visit them and talk with them, but we wouldn't talk about things that are upsetting (ex. problems at work, current events, etc.). We would keep things positive and upbeat, we would focus on them and how they were doing. Even though my mother is in her late 60s and is completely present in her mind, I think I need to speak with her the way I spoke with my grandparents-in-law: keep things positive, don't talk about any of my problems, focus on her, and let her talk. After all, aren't NPD parents similar to little kids and emotionally fragile? I know my mother sure is.

After this last blowup, I'm going to distance the phone calls (which really is easier said than done for me). I'm planning on putting some days between calls and to call only once a day. If she has a doctor's appointment or something is going on, I'll call to do a check-in. She will have to adjust. If something is happening on her end, she can call me as well; phone lines go both ways. I'm not a mind reader. Let my family call me an ungrateful b****. I have enough of living up to their and my mother's expectations and knowing that whatever I do will never be good enough.

When I talked to a good friend of mine and asked for her opinion on whether she thought if I called every 2 to 3 days would be something my mother could live with, my friend turned things around and told me to stop worrying about what's good for my mother; are 2 to 3 days something I can live with? She told me I have to do what's good for me, I have to call when it feels right for me and my mother will have to adapt. That really made me stop and think.

I did end up calling my mother today to say hello and see how she was doing. We talked for 35 minutes about things that really don't matter (the weather, doing odds and ends about the house, her health, etc.). Per her wishes, I didn't tell her that I loved her at the end of the call (which I normally would do) and she didn't tell me she loved me. I just told her to take care of herself. I was planning to call her next this Saturday, when I'm off from work and I have time to talk rather than squeeze in a phone call. Since I know she has a doctor's appointment this Wednesday, I'll make an extra call that evening to see how her doctor's visit went. Maybe to others, calling 1-2 times a week sounds like a lot. For me, this is HUGE after calling 3 times a day everyday.

I'm learning that I really have to stick to the spacing of phone calls. If I let go and fall back to my bad habits, it's harder to start up again until another blowup happens. It almost sounds like an alcoholic falling off the horse from just 1 drink after staying sober for so long, doesn't it? I have to make it work this time.

"But, my intuition knows I just can't go back like this." From what you wrote, sounds like you also don't want to go back to the relationship you had with your mother. Maybe we should look at ourselves similarly to recovering alcoholics? We need to admit we have a problem, we're not happy with our problem, and we have to fix it. And like recovering alcoholics, it's almost impossible to do on our own. Look to your husband and friends for support, look to the people on this forum. We need to take baby steps and take care of ourselves.

For myself, I don't want to go NC, so I'm making the effort to be LC. I'll see how it goes.

I know from firsthand experience that this is so tough, especially because this is dealing with a parent, not just anyone. Hang in there, do what feels right to you.

[makingachange]

Hi, makingachange! I hope you're taking good care of yourself and being kind to yourself. As I'm finding out, making the time to replenish myself (yoga, meditation, reading, cycling) helps to calm me down and feel better in general. Do whatever fills your cup.

Yes, unfortunately we're both on a difficult, long road with our mothers. And yes, this road feels uncomfortable to me as well. Coming from a European family, I had it drilled into me how you're supposed to be there for your family, especially your parents (if you've watched My Big Fat Greek Wedding, you have an idea of how my family operates--no boundaries, everyone living in each other's pockets, everyone knowing everyone's business, etc.). So both cultural and family pressure play into my situation.

I've been going through the repetitive cycle with my mother--blowup, awkwardness, temporary change (space between calls), things seem to be going well, back to the routine (calling everyday, being the over-dutiful daughter), then blowup again. The thing with NPD parents, which I'm sure many here have experienced, is that you go through periods when they seem normal and caring, and you want to feel that they are normal parents. The problem is that they're not, and any little thing at any time can cause a blowup and shake you back into reality. This has been my story for far too long.

12 years ago I put physical distance between me and my mother by moving over 2,000 miles away for my job. I enjoy my job (most days), I love where I live, and I met my husband here who's good to me and with whom I have a good life. Even though I created physical distance, I haven't yet created emotional distance. That, I'm working on right now. And it's tough. It's about making boundaries (like how often you call) and that's a difficult thing to do with a narcissist.

This last blowup with my mother really was the last straw for me. To have her put me down when I was having a bad day rather than be supportive, for her to be offended when I told her that her words hurt me, and to say that I treated her badly and she deserves more respect from me...that was really too much for me. Not that I didn't know it before (but I wanted to believe otherwise), my mother is not a safe person. I have to put in the forefront of my mind that I can't tell her anything important; anything important I will share with my husband and 2 close friends I trust.

I'm looking at things from this perspective. When my husband's grandparents were in assisted living in their 90s, we would visit them and talk with them, but we wouldn't talk about things that are upsetting (ex. problems at work, current events, etc.). We would keep things positive and upbeat, we would focus on them and how they were doing. Even though my mother is in her late 60s and is completely present in her mind, I think I need to speak with her the way I spoke with my grandparents-in-law: keep things positive, don't talk about any of my problems, focus on her, and let her talk. After all, aren't NPD parents similar to little kids and emotionally fragile? I know my mother sure is.

After this last blowup, I'm going to distance the phone calls (which really is easier said than done for me). I'm planning on putting some days between calls and to call only once a day. If she has a doctor's appointment or something is going on, I'll call to do a check-in. She will have to adjust. If something is happening on her end, she can call me as well; phone lines go both ways. I'm not a mind reader. Let my family call me an ungrateful b****. I have enough of living up to their and my mother's expectations and knowing that whatever I do will never be good enough.

When I talked to a good friend of mine and asked for her opinion on whether she thought if I called every 2 to 3 days would be something my mother could live with, my friend turned things around and told me to stop worrying about what's good for my mother; are 2 to 3 days something I can live with? She told me I have to do what's good for me, I have to call when it feels right for me and my mother will have to adapt. That really made me stop and think.

I did end up calling my mother today to say hello and see how she was doing. We talked for 35 minutes about things that really don't matter (the weather, doing odds and ends about the house, her health, etc.). Per her wishes, I didn't tell her that I loved her at the end of the call (which I normally would do) and she didn't tell me she loved me. I just told her to take care of herself. I was planning to call her next this Saturday, when I'm off from work and I have time to talk rather than squeeze in a phone call. Since I know she has a doctor's appointment this Wednesday, I'll make an extra call that evening to see how her doctor's visit went. Maybe to others, calling 1-2 times a week sounds like a lot. For me, this is HUGE after calling 3 times a day everyday.

I'm learning that I really have to stick to the spacing of phone calls. If I let go and fall back to my bad habits, it's harder to start up again until another blowup happens. It almost sounds like an alcoholic falling off the horse from just 1 drink after staying sober for so long, doesn't it? I have to make it work this time.

"But, my intuition knows I just can't go back like this." From what you wrote, sounds like you also don't want to go back to the relationship you had with your mother. Maybe we should look at ourselves similarly to recovering alcoholics? We need to admit we have a problem, we're not happy with our problem, and we have to fix it. And like recovering alcoholics, it's almost impossible to do on our own. Look to your husband and friends for support, look to the people on this forum. We need to take baby steps and take care of ourselves.

For myself, I don't want to go NC, so I'm making the effort to be LC. I'll see how it goes.

I know from firsthand experience that this is so tough, especially because this is dealing with a parent, not just anyone. Hang in there, do what feels right to you.

Thank you so much for your insight ...and yes, I do agree...we cannot go back to the same old patterns!  We have to make a change and stick to it.  I hope that you are having a great week so far, love!   

[Call Me Cordelia]

Looking back at the last few years of context with my FOO, when I had moved closer to them, I see now some patterns that the expectation was all on me to make them look and feel good, with zero effort from them.

It started going sideways right off, when I asked for help with house hunting/moving in. Especially when my DH and I didn’t live as close to them as we could have. That hurt them, especially because they had to explain after telling everyone that Cordelia was moving back home, that actually I’d be over an hour’s drive away.

They hate driving. So it was on me to visit them, and to roll out the red carpet when they’d deign to come to a grandchild’s birthday or something.

Being around them drained me, and I knew that I could never really “move back home.” I was always the SG, so I shouldn’t have been surprised when my parents simply didn’t have time for me and my family. I used to be quite dutiful about calling 1-2 times a week, but I decreased it because my parents were less and less interested in anything I had to tell them. I told them less, I guess gray rock although I didn’t know the term at the time. There just wasn’t any point in telling them about my life. Then the guilt trips about, “It’s been so long since I heard your voice.” They got more ignoring and more passive-aggressive. Gift shenanigans, treating my siblings with obvious favoritism, switching my previously despised BIL to the in-club, implying my children had problems due to my parenting, that sort of thing.

I think it’s different with overall ignoring parents, but once I overtly called them out on some unacceptable behavior, it was suddenly open war. Threats that I had no choice but to take seriously. “Hey, this thing you said really hurt me. I need some space.” That was three years ago. That’s all it took. It’s the only time I ever stood up for myself. It’s the last thing I ever said to them. Then we went down the path of harassment, libel, sending a cease and desist, and moving with no forwarding address.