Learning not to JADE

[Sapling]

I have spent most of my life JADE-ing with FOO and with people around me. For the longest time, I truly believed that if I could just explain things in a particular way to people, they would get it and treat me better, behave better, understand me better or [insert however I wanted them to change here]. It goes without saying that this has not worked and one of the biggest revelations for me, in coming Out of the FOG, has been that my attempts to JADE have not only failed to produce the desired outcome but they have often made things worse. 

Now that I am clear about the fact that I will not JADE when faced with PDs or PD traits, the issue I have is that I still JADE in my head (!)
If I have a confrontation with a PD, afterwards I find myself rehearing a well constructed argument in my head (just in case they should say something that upsets me in the future). I don't think this is healthy as it costs me a lot of time and energy ruminating. I also wonder if it keeps my brain in fight or flight mode as well, never allowing me to just relax and be. I have tried reassuring myself with affirmations like "you don't need a rehearsal. You can deal with whatever comes up," or "you are good at handling people. You can navigate conflict effectively," but these affirmations don't always work. It's like the JADEing is automatic and my brain goes straight there as a means of protection. Does anyone have any experience or insight in calming this mechanism down?

[notrightinthehead]

Good observation. I am taking a guess here - it might be necessary for you to make sure that you are doing the right thing. So after the confrontation you replay it and justify your behaviour to yourself by arguing your points.  That way you affirm yourself that you did the right thing.
I have no suggestion how to stop the ruminating.  My mind is busy all the time. Even when I meditate I find myself thinking about who to call or what to do about that plumber who still has not called back... Let me know if you find out.

[Lookin 2 B Free]

Hi, Sapling.  It seems you have a tremendous amount of insight into how you respond to PD behavior and the consequences of your responses.    I have a hard time around not wanting to be defensive.   When you spend so many years, decades, as a SG, it can be hard to let unfair accusations lay there unchallenged, though I usually do.

I'm sure others here have much more experience than I do.  Really, what I rely on is boundaries and distance.  If I find I'm repeatedly spending time chewing on what someone says or does, and that person has a PD or is otherwise unable to work with me, I figure I need to spend more time being with people and situations which aren't so triggering.  I also take it to T to explore how I'm hooked and how to get freer.

I wish you luck!

[MarlenaEve]

Sapling, yes!

Unfortunately yes, i do that, too. Jading in my head on what to explain to PD mom/dad. Like you said, it is automatic. They've made us like this. It is hard not to do it because our subconscious thinks it's just natural to think like this. We need to reprogram our subconscious mind to reject this mindset habit. I assume this can be learned in therapy.

Has anyone managed to get rid of this thing with therapy/inner work?

[JustKeepTrying]

Holy smokes batman did you nail it on the head!  Your description of jadeing in your head is exactly what I do and I didn't have a way of describing it until this post.  I would just say I went down the rabbit hole.

There are a few things that helped me - not always - but sometimes.

Journaling.  When I journal I work hard to try to free write and often find connections and missing thoughts that just until writing comes to the surface.  The jade starts the prompt but in the writing, I can sometimes tap into triggers that I didn't see.  But I have to really allow myself the freedom to write freely - without fear of what will come to the page.  There have been times I just close my eyes and type away - only to be surprised by what appears on the page.

Sometimes therapy helps but I also have imaginary conversations - arguments - with the people who triggered the jade.  Of course, in private where no one is home - and there have been times yelling is involved.  This is saved for only the deepest and egregious of jades - the ones that just won't leave and come from a dark place within - usually a traumatic event from my childhood.  I find it helps with my explaining and sometimes just saying the words aloud-  hearing them - is all my mind needs.

But then there are times, the justifying and arguing just circle and circle until I distract myself with an audiobook or tv.  Otherwise, I would be lost in my own head.

[Cat of the Canals]

I think this is a normal reaction, even if the rumination ends up not being particularly healthy. We have a need to be understood and heard, but we really aren't given that chance with PDs. Especially not when we practice Grey Rock and Medium Chill. And that can leave a lot of emotions bottled up and unexpressed, which I think is where this "internal" JADEing comes from.

I second the idea of journaling. It has definitely helped me with this. I can say all of the things I wish I could have said, without the repercussions of the PD using it against me. And putting the arguments and justifications on paper helps get them out of my head.

[Sheppane]

Sapling that sounds like a great insight- an internal boundary not to JADE in my head ! Like you I have spent years JADEing to everyone else. As that behaviour has now calmed down a little I do also notice I internally JADE - preparing an argument/ explanation etc etc. Sometimes I think it is simply a learned hypervigilant response designed to protect me from what might come next- but not necessarily always a helpful one especially when it leads me into a lot of ruminating. So if it feels like an obsessive ruminating loop I ask myself the question what am I running away from? Because sometimes my mind likes to keep busy distracting me in an endless loop rather than actually feeling the feelings underneath. But as someone else also mentioned here occasionally JADEing in my head can also be about me validating my experience- trusting my perceptions- justifying that what I did/ didn't do or say was ok. For instance if I put up a strong boundary I will probably find myself jadeing to myself which is essentially me telling myself it is OK to set a boundary or I dont need to feel guilty or I've done nothing wrong etc. I also think I stuffed my feelings for so long that part of me JADEing inside is also releasing these feelings. Especially the arguing - as one who grew up never allowed to argue or be angry. Sometimes it feels healthy for me to have imaginary arguments! In the sense of what I would really like to have said but didn't. Thinking about it I think the key might be to ponder on which type of jadeing experience it is - different versions of it in different situations might serve a different purpose. If I get really stuck in the loop though I tell myself " Stop . ✋thank you.  That's enough now I don't need anymore of that".

[Starboard Song]

Does anyone have any experience or insight in calming this mechanism down?

I do. I learned it in our family crisis.

I am a lawyer type. I think everything is due a rational explanation. And I think every act or word is entitled to a fair interpretation. And that means I argue instinctively in my head all the time. It is a perpetually habit. But the arguments are not usually angry ones. They are like geometric proofs: I lay out evidence in my head and think out what the right answer is. So yes, I totally get it.

What I've learned to do with dysfunctional people is to stop and ask myself this question:

At this moment, am I attempting to persuade them to do or not do something?

And it is about doing stuff: they can believe anything they want. If the answer is yes, well then, I should proceed to the argument phase, and start talking about reasons, causes, and interests. But if that answer is no, then I needn't talk about any reasons, causes, or interests. I've learned to reply to these situations with a declarative "I" statement:

• I will not allow that in my home
• I will not stay here while you speak that way
• I didn't mean to upset you, but can see that I have
• I disagree

If someone is yelling about how I should have put gas in the car, I simply cannot respond until I ask myself "am I trying to persuade them to do something?" And that two seconds of peace helps me reply, "I disagree." If I feeling warm and fuzzy I can add "but I understand that you are upset."

I am NC with the main source of antagonism in my life, so I am in far less practice using this in hot zones. But it is actually valuable even in normal relationships. When the other party is kind, you can invest more in the softening part "I disagree, but I see now that you expected otherwise, and I see how that is upsetting." You can even tack on an apology: "I'm sorry about that."

Anyway. It works for me.

[Sapling]

Thank you all- this is so helpful. I won't respond individually, but I am rereading all of your responses as each has given me something to think about.

Yes, I do journal quite a bit so that helps me get the initial charge out of things. Still afterwards I find myself building arguments in my head and justifying my course of action.

Yes, notrightinthehead and Sheppane, some of the internal JADEing is me going over what happened and being conscientious about whether I did act according to my own values and what I think is fair. Some of it is also being hypervigillant and preparing for what might happen if more conflict comes up.

Starboard Song, thank you for this:  "At this moment, am I attempting to persuade them to do or not do something?"
This is an important question I need to ask myself, instead of trying to convince others or worrying about whether I did the right thing in their eyes as well as in mine. Your declarative statements are very useful. What I find difficult about these though is that often PDs lead with their own declarative statements and I feel that coming back with my own "I, I, I" will end in a stalemate. What are your thoughts on that?

[raspberryoxygen]

About the getting rid of the internal JADEing...it's hard for me because it takes up my whole head. Thinking about interactions with other people takes up so much time! But, hello, this is us, not living in the moment, wasting our lives not being present. We ignore what's going on right NOW to think about past or future conversations. So I cry for the loss of my life to this crap. It really helps if I can get tears to come, sometimes using a recovery song from my playlist (Sia features prominently). It also helps to get angry at my uBPD mother in my head. After, all, she installed this horrible tendency in me. I was always trying to say just the right words to gain love and to have her ,,see" me. I always failed. Is it scary to anyone else how much of our mental energy is wasted on this? For me, it stops now. This is so hard!

[Sapling]

I was always trying to say just the right words to gain love and to have her ,,see" me. I always failed. Is it scary to anyone else how much of our mental energy is wasted on this? For me, it stops now. This is so hard!

Oh raspberryoxygen! I can so relate. I have also spent so much of my life trying to find just the right words to change other people only to find there is no such spell or incantation. I think you're right in that crying, feeling the anger and generally feeling the feelings rather than going into JADE mode would be better. I do think that JADEing (internally) can also be an avoidance mechanism, where I build a sound argument rather than just feel my heart break. Thank you for sharing.