Physical over emotional

[Pepin]

As the elderly PDs in my life continue to age, at times I find myself questioning my view of them.  Am I being irrational or too harsh?  After all....look at how weak and helpless they are...from a physical stance.  And this is what gets under my skin....that their physical appearance is a mask for what lies within. 

People that haven't known these elderly PDs for long immediately form opinions of them that seemingly negate any negative facts that I have accumulated.  Therefore, I look like I have some kind of agenda.  And then there are those that have known the PD forever and just brush everything to the side with excuses because they stand to make some sort of gain.

It really seems like a no win situation.  Society as a whole kind of caters to the physical aspect of being elderly but turns a blind eye toward who they used to be.  And that past, particularly if it was bad, gets erased.  Oh, you are elderly now so whatever bad you did before doesn't matter.  We will take care of you because you cannot care for yourself.  Again, the physical aspect and nothing to do with the emotional aspect.  And, these ailing PDs get away with it.

So few of us get any sort of retribution from the abuse they dished out and it is a painful struggle all the way until their end.  And they get the last laugh, leaving us to sort through the mess.  The point is for me, is that their old age is such a completely unfair part of their lives where they get to use their physical limitations to their advantage because they can.  Meanwhile, they are sharp as ever, skilled at their craft, swinging at whatever it is they can until they are no more.  I just cannot imagine being like this.  And I cannot believe that society as a whole is so blind to this. 

I feel as though these elderly years with the two PDs (NF and PDmil) in my life have been the most difficult, despite the decades of therapy, self care and personal and ongoing research. 

[nanotech]

My heart goes out to you Pepin. I know how it is.
But I'm not sure it's so great for them.
My dad himself, doesn't want to drop the physical ' used to be.'
He was always very fit for his age. He's finding it hard being old.
Deep down, he's angry with his failing body.
So he will pretend it ain't happening, but then will try to criticise me when I don't challenge his unwise behaviour.
This is me in medium chill. I say 'ok' rather than,
' OMG Dad you shouldn't have done that! '
I no longer try to care-take him. He looks for the care -taking, he wants that, so that he can vehemently reject it.
He wants me to carry his emotion for him. He can't abide it.
But dad, I've stopped with all of that. It's unhealthy.
So.....an 89 year old man lurches from unwise actions ( propping a broken fence up in the wind, and nearly getting stuck in his garden between it and the wall) -to long and self -sorrowful waifs about how I  'have no idea how weak his knees are these days.' when I just say 'ok'.
He then began a long rant about how weak they were but part way through started to self -censor - he just can't deal with it, that this has happened to him
Hey it will be hard for me too, if I get to be that old-  but I believe it's harder for PDs.
So maybe it's not the last laugh- this is what I'm thinking. They  love attention, but they hate to feel 'less than'.
So while he may attract sympathy from those who know him less well, I can't say that he's enjoying old age.
Other people will react how they react. They weren't there years ago. They don't understand. Or, as you say, they may have something to gain now, by 'letting bygones be bygones'. We have a few of the latter in my FOO.
Up to them. No need to be dismayed by it. We're not trying to change the world, just OUR world. Our world needs to stay healthy, so you have a right to see or not see these people according to how much contact, if any, you want. No one can tell you otherwise. 

Also, some people WILL possibly see though them, but may well not mention anything, just out of politeness or sheer apathy.  Bear that in mind too.
Medium chill everything. That way you will keep your head intact. I'm sending hugs xxxxx

[Boat Babe]

In addition to Nanotech's wise and compassionate comment, I would add that the interior experience of  a disordered person must be hellish. If only to judge by the hell they can inflict on other people.  I'd say that even when they are young and perhaps successful, they live with constant shame and self hatred. And that never goes away because, as we know, they don't change. I think the aging process must be horrific for a PD person because they can't access the positive aspects of ageing. These include a certain amount of wisdom and equanimity about our lives that enhance the present moment, a greater degree of emotional stability and understanding and, a growing coming to terms with our physical decline and our mortality.  All of the above are not readily available to a person who has disordered thinking. They face the pain and indignities that old age can bring with none of the fruits of experience that allow us to live our final years with a measure of grace, humour and love.

Unfortunately you still have to protect yourself from the toxic old man that he  is. I wish you all the joy that you can hold ❤️

[Sneezy]

Dealing with an aging PD can be so difficult.  There is a societal expectation that we respect, honor, and care for our elders.  And a PD will take full advantage of that expectation.  What a great way to get attention!  Everyone pays attention to the little old man or lady who needs help crossing the street, right?  But as nanotech notes, PDs hate to feel "less than."  They crave attention, both negative and positive, but they don't like to feel like they are failing in any way.  And so I think aging is a double edged sword for a PD.  They get attention, sure, but they are also confronted head-on with the fact that they are less physically, and possibly mentally, able.  They are no longer the center of anyone's world.  No longer the matriarch or patriarch, rather their children and grandchildren have grown up, moved on, started their own families. 

The hope we all have is that with age comes wisdom.  As we get older, we come to terms with our lives, realize our blessings and our limitations.  And like it or not, we all understand that some day we won't be here any longer, and the world will go on spinning just fine without us.  But that is a hard pill to swallow for a PD.  The thought that the world will be just fine when they are gone.  Even if they leave a bit of a mess behind, it will get cleaned up and people will move on without them.  That must be a very unpleasant thought for someone who thinks he is the center of the universe.

Stick to your boundaries and your medium chill.  Don't give two seconds of thought to what anyone else thinks.  You know your truth and however your elderly relatives may or may not be perceived by others is something you can't control and don't need to waste time on.  Hugs to you!

[doglady]

Pepin, I totally feel you on everything you've said. This is often how I feel, too, when I'm in my more vulnerable moments - that somehow they've got away with it. And no one sees through it.

And yet...
they haven't really, as Nano, Boat Babe and Sneezy so eloquently tell us.

They have to live with themselves inside their own heads. Imagine swapping for a day. I couldn't stand one minute of that. Maybe that's karma. In any case, you know your truth. And we believe you.

[Leonor]

Hi Pepin and all,

Yes, I feel that pressure too with my foo and in-laws. "But they're oooold ..."

But you know, that's just a new twist in the same old guilt trip "But she's your mooooom ... But everybody knows Mr. Soandso would neeeeever hurt anyone ... But they loooooove you ..."

At the same time, the more I talk to people outside the abuse system, the more people "get it." I once tentatively mentioned that I was not in contact with my mother to a friendly acquaintance and she replied, "Oh,my mom's a $#@&" and then we had a long talk about our diagnosably disordered mothers.

The "But-butters" are either part of the abuse system you were born into (relatives, neighbors, etc.) or in another system of their own and they have not come to terms with it yet.

So when you hear that "Oooold"whine, take it for what it is: FOG alert!

[Seven]

All of what everyone has said.  ALL OF IT! 

I really can't  wait for all of it to be over.

[Pepin]

They  love attention, but they hate to feel 'less than'.

"But they're oooold ..."

They have to live with themselves inside their own heads.

There is a societal expectation that we respect, honor, and care for our elders. 

They face the pain and indignities that old age can bring with none of the fruits of experience that allow us to live our final years with a measure of grace, humour and love.

I really can't  wait for all of it to be over.

Thank you everyone who replied.  I feel that everything you said perfectly sums up what I was trying to express.  I am just so frustrated with NF and PDmil getting away with everything that they do!  I don't have contact with NF but I still am shaken to the core sometimes with regards about how others viewed him and all the excuses they spewed in his defense.

And then there is PDmil....I wish I could have NC with her but DH prevents this.  It would embarrassing to him if I cut her out.  Somehow I was labelled as the better of the in-laws that married into the family.  All of the spouses of DH's siblings are more or less black listed.  So, it is I Pepin, who has had to endure the most time spent with PDmil during her aging.  It hasn't been pretty.  It has been demoralizing to watch and depressing to be the main target since no one else is around for her.  And even though I am VVVVVVVLC with her and hardly see her, in a sense I still have to deal with her through DH.  I know that PDmil feels less than and helpless -- but she actually chose that well before age stepped in.  I have known her long enough now to have understood the pattern of her actions.  Does she have to live with herself inside her own head?  That is a tough one.  I am not sure what goes on inside of her head other than looking for ways to be helpless to get attention.  She has demonstrated everything opposite of other elders in my life who live with "grace, humor" and wisdom.  I need to know that aging is not going to be scary as I am well on my way and PDmil is scaring the sh*t out of me with her behavior toward my DH. 

I just cannot wait for all of this to be over.  I just want to get off this crazy train. 

[Sneezy]

I need to know that aging is not going to be scary as I am well on my way and PDmil is scaring the sh*t out of me with her behavior toward my DH. 

My DH and I have had some serious discussions about how we want to age.  We definitely do not want to be as miserable as my covert NPD mom or his HPD mom and enabling (and utterly miserable) father.  It's downright scary to see how they are aging.  They are just so sad and angry and isolated.  Ugh!  So DH and I are using them as life lessons and trying to be a little smarter about planning for our old age.  Planning doesn't guarantee success, of course, but at least it gives us some feeling that we may be able to control and enjoy our golden years better than our parents did.

Unfortunately, the PD parents in our lives will continue to affect our behavior to some extent.  I think as long as we are self-aware and can see what is going on, we will be able to temper the effects.  For example, our DD is getting married next year.  And she recently asked me if I was happy about it, because she couldn't tell.  It turns out that I have been trying so hard not to be like my mother (butting in, asking inappropriate questions, being bossy and manipulative) that I was holding back too much.  It was at the point that DD couldn't tell if I was even looking forward to her wedding.  So a good lesson for me that I can't be so afraid of turning out like my mother that I never express myself.

Use your parents as examples of what *not* to do.  Make conscious decisions about how you want to live out your later years.  And understand that your DH may have some ideas that are different than yours about what retirement will look like.  That's ok, too.  Good luck!

[M0009803]

As the elderly PDs in my life continue to age, at times I find myself questioning my view of them.  Am I being irrational or too harsh?  After all....look at how weak and helpless they are...from a physical stance.  And this is what gets under my skin....that their physical appearance is a mask for what lies within. 

People that haven't known these elderly PDs for long immediately form opinions of them that seemingly negate any negative facts that I have accumulated.  Therefore, I look like I have some kind of agenda.  And then there are those that have known the PD forever and just brush everything to the side with excuses because they stand to make some sort of gain.

It really seems like a no win situation.  Society as a whole kind of caters to the physical aspect of being elderly but turns a blind eye toward who they used to be.  And that past, particularly if it was bad, gets erased.  Oh, you are elderly now so whatever bad you did before doesn't matter.  We will take care of you because you cannot care for yourself.  Again, the physical aspect and nothing to do with the emotional aspect.  And, these ailing PDs get away with it.

So few of us get any sort of retribution from the abuse they dished out and it is a painful struggle all the way until their end.  And they get the last laugh, leaving us to sort through the mess.  The point is for me, is that their old age is such a completely unfair part of their lives where they get to use their physical limitations to their advantage because they can.  Meanwhile, they are sharp as ever, skilled at their craft, swinging at whatever it is they can until they are no more.  I just cannot imagine being like this.  And I cannot believe that society as a whole is so blind to this. 

I feel as though these elderly years with the two PDs (NF and PDmil) in my life have been the most difficult, despite the decades of therapy, self care and personal and ongoing research.

One of the first things I did is write everything I remembered about the abuse down.

Anytime I start experiencing abuse amnesia (this is normal if you give it time and you are an empathic person) I re-read what I wrote back then.

It helps to center my thoughts on the matter.  Some things are simply unforgivable, no matter the age or health of the parent.

[Dandelion]

I think my narcissistic mother is fairly ok growing old.  She doesn't like losing her "looks", but that's about it.  She gets to watch TV and indulge herself all day and demand more "services" from others whilst playing the plucky, charming pensioner with no real family or family help!  Though she did slowly rack up the demands for help from me, the daughter she did so little for.  (She was an "ignoring" narcissist.).  But I have put a stop to that completely now.  Perhaps it is just my own experience of two narcissists, but I think narcissists are often very good at looking forward and planning for their own security etc. in old age as it's another thing that's "all about them".  I never thought about this before but I think she has planned out her finances well to be able to live well in old age.  (She would still like to rope me, or whoever else she can get for free or nearly free, in though.)