Who they spend their time with

Pepin · April 07, 2021, 04:51:16 PM

In the back of my mind I have some worry about some guy friends that my DH interacts with. These are guys that don't live near us and they communicate through text only and have a text chat with each other. They are either divorced or in the process of divorce. The ring leader is an older past work colleague *ick* who lusts after women half his age. He was actually married to one and got her a green card, boobs and a college education and then she dumped him. He continues to go after younger women but hasn't had much luck since he is a) gross b) not gold digger quality c) was living with mommy until she passed last year. He has adult children. The other two guys are a little more down to earth but also possibly easily manipulated into doing unsavory things at the hand of the ringleader because they are hurt and starved. These three men are obviously not attached to anyone and living single guy lives.

And then there is DH -- who is married to me. He is always texting the ring leader. And who knows what filfth the ring leader is dumping into DH's head. They have talked about a guy's trip to Mexico and yeah....let's think about what that might entail? Three divorced guys and one married guy - who may or may not be able to uphold any morals with regards to marriage? And my DH has a shaky history with regards to lashing out since he is enmeshed with PDmil and of course the GC. Yes, he is going to lash out in a way that points toward me.

They say that our closest friends are impressionable on us. DH does have a few close friends nearby that he sometimes gets together with and they are upstanding men that care deeply about their families. But this other group of men that live far away in another State, I am not so sure I feel good about them getting together with my DH. I would like for them NOT to take a trip together because I cannot trust them. I haven't met the other 2 but the ring leader I have met and even though DH seems to think very highly of him, I do not. He sometimes talks a good game but thrives off of fantasy. Enmeshed men like my DH are drawn to fantasy because they feel trapped between their mother and wife.

Anyone have any experience with this? Anything thoughts on how I should handle it if DH comes to me and asks if he can take a guys trip with them once this pandemic gets more under control?

Call Me Cordelia · April 07, 2021, 05:31:10 PM

Ick. This sounds like the next escalation of the porn issue. I have no experience and no advice on how to handle it, but I want to validate your instincts that this is gross and a bad idea.

Coming back to edit, since I just read your other post. As you just wrote... boundaries are the only way! Listen to your own wisdom.

1footouttadefog · April 07, 2021, 06:15:43 PM

Not sounding good to me. Especially if he will be keeping bad company.

Pepin · June 09, 2021, 09:21:12 PM

DH has brought this up again and might be making a trip to meet these "friends" this summer though it would require DH to travel to their state. They would rent a house and just hang out.

DO I believe this? I am not so sure....and I will need to see confirmation of airline tickets and of course I will be monitoring our credit card statement. I will also need to see purchases from the area of where he says they will be that would include food, gas, car rental, etc. for those consecutive days. Beyond that I can't monitor much more than that...and will have to trust DH. But who knows?

While I don't think I should be tracking my husband, I am annoyed that he is the only one with an android phone at the moment. This means I don't always know where he is if he is out. The teens and I can see where we are at any given time....but we cannot see DH. This bothers me a lot.

I know this sounds like I am stalking my husband but...I kind of don't really trust him that much anymore -- and with good reason. Why shouldn't we all know where we are anyway? We are a family, right? Many years ago I answered the house phone and it was a computer generated message confirming a flight to Vegas. He lied to me about where he was going and got caught. When I asked him he said he didn't want to tell me because he knew I would get mad....well, yes. I was mad that he "needed" to go to Vegas because I wanted to go, too but I was more mad that he lied to me about what he was doing. And over the years I have also found receipts (I saved them) for things that he didn't tell me he did...

I don't mind when DH spends time with his other group of guy friends but this one, led by the icky ring leader just gives me heart palpitations. I wish they were not friends and I don't understand for the life of me why they are. The guy would never fit in with our other friends - they would find him creepy and suspect. The other group of guy friends that my husband has would never go for this guy. I am embarrassed that he and my husband are friends. And he is older, too - not that that should mean much but it kind of does. Ick. He is no mentor or anyone to look up to, that is for sure.

Anything else I should be asking or doing if DH decides he needs to go meet these guys?

SonofThunder · June 10, 2021, 06:25:51 AM

Pepin, I'm sorry your DH's actions and choices are bothering you this way. I can only control myself and my actions/reactions by my proper designed boundaries to protect myself.

If this was my situation, I would simply be documenting it all in detail and in a private and organized 'proof' way. If I had a non-PD spouse and she crossed a line ethically as a married person, it would be a clear path indicator to separation to divorce, the same as if she was a PD. Again, I'm speaking specifically about myself in your situation and I don't know your desires or family setup (kids living in the home?). I wish you the best as you consider his own free choices in action/reaction as an adult.

Clearly, if you believe that any sexual activity/affair activity may be occurring, then please protect your health by avoiding the chances that he passes a STD to you. I know that may be harsh to read, but it's a potential in affair situations.

SoT

Lauren17 · June 10, 2021, 08:19:25 AM

Pepin,
I fully agree with SoT. This is yukky situation, but it's good time to practice focusing on the things you can control.
My H regularly lies to me about things he wants, "so I don't get mad" just as you described. He then refuses to see that the lying is worse than whatever the action was.
We're all on the same phone plan and he has turned off absolutely anything that would allow us to track him. When he first did this, I asked him about it and he pretended to be confused and swore that he hadn't changed any settings on his phone. When I started seeing my T, I turned off the location service on my phone. He went through the roof!
This is one where I've completely given up trying to control. I don't ask him where is going or where he went, I don't ask for the phone location, I don't ask when he's leaving or when he'll be home. When he travels, he no longer shares flight information with me (this includes a visit to his mother!!).
I do review credit card statements. This isn't stalking. It's my money, too.
I also document, as SoT recommends.

SonofThunder · June 11, 2021, 06:09:28 AM

Quote from: Lauren17 on June 10, 2021, 08:19:25 AM
Pepin,
I fully agree with SoT. This is yukky situation, but it's good time to practice focusing on the things you can control.
My H regularly lies to me about things he wants, "so I don't get mad" just as you described. He then refuses to see that the lying is worse than whatever the action was.
We're all on the same phone plan and he has turned off absolutely anything that would allow us to track him. When he first did this, I asked him about it and he pretended to be confused and swore that he hadn't changed any settings on his phone. When I started seeing my T, I turned off the location service on my phone. He went through the roof!
This is one where I've completely given up trying to control. I don't ask him where is going or where he went, I don't ask for the phone location, I don't ask when he's leaving or when he'll be home. When he travels, he no longer shares flight information with me (this includes a visit to his mother!!).
I do review credit card statements. This isn't stalking. It's my money, too.
I also document, as SoT recommends.

I do the same. My uPDh is an adult and I will respect her (and all human adults) privacy and responsibility for her own choices, no matter what. But I will not stand for any type of online emotional affair or in-person affair in a marriage. I desire my personal privacy as well, just as Lauren17 said, and I get accused of being quiet and secretive.

I'm a firm believer, because of much experience, that PD's frequently 'deflect' (away from themselves) using projection (assign their own bad behavior to another) which is truly deception (gaslighting and creating a drama smokescreen to hide behind).

Pepin is not describing the actions of a PD but her DH. I personally believe that all humans are susceptible to peer pressure and moral failure. As a Christian man, I also believe in forgiveness, but forgiveness is not me accepting the bad behavior but rather releasing myself (emotionally) (and physically if needed) from the bad behavior and in my beliefs, handing that issue over to God to deal with. Therefore, I would understand if a spouse (PD or Not) caved to moral failure, but I won't be married to one. I will forgive the moral failure (release myself from it, therefore not antagonize the spouse), but I'm immediately gone and straight to divorce.

If other adults choose a different definition of forgiveness, then so be it. I have not witnessed a marriage that was not permanently affected in a negative way, when a spouse chose to stay in that situation. Imo, if the couple acts in public like they have overcome it, I believe it's different behind closed doors and also in the heart of the spouse who was cheated.

Lastly, circling the wagon, I will again state that my wife may choose any action or reaction her adult self desires, and I will do the same, both of us enjoying full privacy and I will trust until proven untrustworthy.

SoT

tragedy or hope · June 11, 2021, 05:45:23 PM

So we know that this behavior is causing anxiety. This to me is part of my unpdh, mode of operation. Seems to enjoy keeping me guessing. LIkes/is addicted to attention from people I would consider better at a distance. People lie for all kinds of reasons. One of the characteristics of an adult child of an alcoholic is lying when it is just as easy to tell the truth. The friend.... vicarious living. Sometimes things look greener over the fence.

I see nothing wrong with having the discussion about why this is uncomfortable for you. If it does not fit your everyday behaviors with one another, I see no harm in talking about it and even asking what the appeal is when there is virtually nothing in common between him and the out of state friend.
I say what I need to say and then always leave it open by saying I am not in charge and you can certainly do what you want, but I felt I needed to have this conversation.
I then handle it as if the decision is not good, but do not discourage. I think on some level as my unpdh has said in the past... they like to "yank your chain." He knows you well enough to keep your brain cells going about him which leaves little time for you to enjoy your own life.
Have you thought to plan a solo trip to a place and people you would enjoy? Tell him when your plans are firm, do not ask, do not show him your hand. You deserve personal privacy too.
You are entitled to stop looking at his life and enjoy your own. I wonder what the response would be...

1footouttadefog · June 13, 2021, 12:09:09 PM

You are entitled to stop looking at his life and enjoy your own. I wonder what the response would be...

I thoroughly agree with this statement.

Take back your life. Don't let the pd control every aspect. It will never be enough no matter how much of your self you lay on the altar of their ego.

Holistically take yourself back especially in the areas the pd refuses to be sharing and reciprocal towards.

Eat things you enjoy, enjoy music, art and intellectual pursuits that are a match. Take care of your body, mind and soul. Be social if it suits you or find ways to enjoy alone time. Live life to the fullest extent while being ethical toward the relationship, the reality relationship, not the one you wish you had, or were possibly mislead into believing you had or would have.

SonofThunder · June 14, 2021, 05:54:40 AM

I will insert again that Pepin refers to her husband as DH, who is enmeshed to his PDmother. I assume then, that Pepin therefore does not believe her husband is a PD person.

I believe that as adults (PD or no PD), adults may choose any action or reaction their adult-self desires, and I will do the same, regardless of their relationship to me. I will trust myself. I will trust others in their fidelity and until proven untrustworthy, and if that occurs, I will end my (chosen) relationship with them. If they are an unchosen family member (child/sibling/parent), I will deploy whatever toolbox tool necessary to protect myself.

SoT

Pepin · June 14, 2021, 05:17:05 PM

Quote from: SonofThunder on June 14, 2021, 05:54:40 AM
I will insert again that Pepin refers to her husband as DH, who is enmeshed to his PDmother. I assume then, that Pepin therefore does not believe her husband is a PD person.

I believe that as adults (PD or no PD), adults may choose any action or reaction their adult-self desires, and I will do the same, regardless of their relationship to me. I will trust myself. I will trust others in their fidelity and until proven untrustworthy, and if that occurs, I will end my (chosen) relationship with them. If they are an unchosen family member (child/sibling/parent), I will deploy whatever toolbox tool necessary to protect myself.

SoT

Thank you SoT, I totally agree with this. True, I don't technically consider my husband a PD but because he is enmeshed and going along with DPD MIL's wishes by being a dutiful son, I feel that this is the right place to post. And at some point, I might get tired of living on hope if I don't see change soon enough in his behavior. Integrity is a word I take very seriously and I believe this was what the man I originally married also took seriously. But. We have made some mistakes with regards to our marriage and DPD MIL's presence. These are difficult to undo at this stage of our marriage but to move forward, there have to be boundaries that we each follow. Otherwise, this marriage just cannot be. And it certainly isn't what I signed up for - yet I have been putting up with it. Not going to stay in it if I catch him doing something he shouldn't be doing.

BeautifulCrazy · June 14, 2021, 06:48:21 PM

Some suggestions from a place of love and optimism.

Since your husband is not PD maybe you could manage to negotiate some terms?
If you let him know what makes you uncomfortable, perhaps the two of you can come up with ways to manage that? Like, maybe checking in by phone at certain times?
I think, being married, you can reasonably expect total transparency in all areas financial and to do with activities. Any unwillingness in that area, would be a big fat red flag in most normal relationships, I think. Same if he were to neglect those things while away: not calling home to say he has arrived safely, or "forgetting", or being "too busy", not sending photos of neat things going on on the trip etc.
Another possible way of negotiating terms with a non-PD could be to use this "trip" to leverage some of your own "wants" getting fulfilled.
(Examples: I won't bother you about this one-time vacation, which I do not approve, but I am....
spending an equivalent amount of $$$ on a new kayak for myself. Or... claiming an equal amount of time to go on a vacation with my bestie. Or... going to have the upstairs bathroom redone. Or...)

Reading your post, I can feel your deep discomfort with the situation. I am certain I would feel that way too. It is a hard place. You can't reasonably say No, he can't go. Nor can you reasonably tell him that if he goes on this weird trip, with these sketchy people, you are leaving him. (Unless you are willing to do that)
Just by asking for accountability, you can easily be cast as the jealous, manipulative, controlling wife who he is lucky to escape from.
Is it possible to negotiate his NOT going? based on your discomfort? Or any reason, really? Or can you discuss the situation with him in reversed roles and find out what his ideas or expectations might be if he were the one in your place?

I am very, very curious to hear how this progresses and resolves for you Pepin!!

Pepin · July 19, 2021, 05:37:14 PM

Quote from: SonofThunder on June 10, 2021, 06:25:51 AM
Pepin, I'm sorry your DH's actions and choices are bothering you this way. I can only control myself and my actions/reactions by my proper designed boundaries to protect myself.

If this was my situation, I would simply be documenting it all in detail and in a private and organized 'proof' way. If I had a non-PD spouse and she crossed a line ethically as a married person, it would be a clear path indicator to separation to divorce, the same as if she was a PD. Again, I'm speaking specifically about myself in your situation and I don't know your desires or family setup (kids living in the home?). I wish you the best as you consider his own free choices in action/reaction as an adult.

Clearly, if you believe that any sexual activity/affair activity may be occurring, then please protect your health by avoiding the chances that he passes a STD to you. I know that may be harsh to read, but it's a potential in affair situations.

SoT

I will be making an appt with my gyn and getting a STD test after DH returns from his trip. It still seems suspicious to me....and I will be monitoring our credit card statements and bank account with a fine tooth comb while he is gone. Something still doesn't feel right and while I cannot share that here yet, I went ahead and *took care* of it. If DH comes to me before his trip and asks me about it, then I will have the truth and will obviously reconsidering our marriage to each other.

The more I think about it, I am so enraged over the unsavory ring leader friend. I just don't see his worth on any level. I don't see why DH is so protective of this man who seemingly has no relationship even with me. I am the wife after all that sleeps next to DH. All our other friends know both of us and spend time with us and their spouses included. But this one guy....and he is a constant string of bad luck and problems as well. Sometimes I get really worried that he is trying to use my DH and that makes me extremely unsettled and scared. What if something happened to DH on this guy's watch? I would do something that would land me in jail....guys, I am really losing it.

SonofThunder · July 21, 2021, 02:20:19 PM

Quote from: Pepin on July 19, 2021, 05:37:14 PM
Quote from: SonofThunder on June 10, 2021, 06:25:51 AM
Pepin, I'm sorry your DH's actions and choices are bothering you this way. I can only control myself and my actions/reactions by my proper designed boundaries to protect myself.

If this was my situation, I would simply be documenting it all in detail and in a private and organized 'proof' way. If I had a non-PD spouse and she crossed a line ethically as a married person, it would be a clear path indicator to separation to divorce, the same as if she was a PD. Again, I'm speaking specifically about myself in your situation and I don't know your desires or family setup (kids living in the home?). I wish you the best as you consider his own free choices in action/reaction as an adult.

Clearly, if you believe that any sexual activity/affair activity may be occurring, then please protect your health by avoiding the chances that he passes a STD to you. I know that may be harsh to read, but it's a potential in affair situations.

SoT

I will be making an appt with my gyn and getting a STD test after DH returns from his trip. It still seems suspicious to me....and I will be monitoring our credit card statements and bank account with a fine tooth comb while he is gone. Something still doesn't feel right and while I cannot share that here yet, I went ahead and *took care* of it. If DH comes to me before his trip and asks me about it, then I will have the truth and will obviously reconsidering our marriage to each other.

The more I think about it, I am so enraged over the unsavory ring leader friend. I just don't see his worth on any level. I don't see why DH is so protective of this man who seemingly has no relationship even with me. I am the wife after all that sleeps next to DH. All our other friends know both of us and spend time with us and their spouses included. But this one guy....and he is a constant string of bad luck and problems as well. Sometimes I get really worried that he is trying to use my DH and that makes me extremely unsettled and scared. What if something happened to DH on this guy's watch? I would do something that would land me in jail....guys, I am really losing it.

Hang in there Pepin! You sound very in-control of yourself and thats all we can really do, so i just focus my thoughts and time there while i love others in the proper 51% way. I will monitor this thread for updates.

SoT

1footouttadefog · July 22, 2021, 07:32:00 AM

My spouse took a couple of trips that were suspicious. Actually they were blatantly wrong.

We had not been intimate for a while prior and him taking those trips sealed that we never would be again. He was the denier. I expressed this to him. I told him if he took the trip we would be roommates only and that it would very much damage his relationship with the kids also.

He made his choice. I doubt my kids will have much to do with him once they move out.

I see myself as an employee in a way. He gets no say over my nights and weekends.

Pepin · August 06, 2021, 07:11:05 PM

Quote from: Pepin on July 19, 2021, 05:37:14 PM
Something still doesn't feel right and while I cannot share that here yet, I went ahead and *took care* of it. If DH comes to me before his trip and asks me about it, then I will have the truth and will obviously reconsidering our marriage to each other.

And....yes, he fell for it. I will eventually get him to admit the truth and will hold this card for when I am ready.

SonofThunder · August 07, 2021, 06:25:41 AM

Quote from: Pepin on August 06, 2021, 07:11:05 PM
Quote from: Pepin on July 19, 2021, 05:37:14 PM
Something still doesn't feel right and while I cannot share that here yet, I went ahead and *took care* of it. If DH comes to me before his trip and asks me about it, then I will have the truth and will obviously reconsidering our marriage to each other.

And....yes, he fell for it. I will eventually get him to admit the truth and will hold this card for when I am ready.

Quite suspenseful indeed! I love a good plan Pepin and sounds as if you are way ahead of the game.

My popcorn's buttered and at the ready.

SoT

xredshoesx · August 07, 2021, 04:54:28 PM

my ex had an annual friends from HS camping trip without me. at first i didn't really care because all they did was drink and then go pass out in an RV, so if they felt the need to do that 8 hours away more power to them (we weren't married either). near the end he got more sneaky around this trip and some other outings. over the course of that last ugly year i got snoopy in his phone, found a name, some texts and eventually found his side chick's photobucket account and saw things i really wasn't ready to see yet when he was with the same group of people at a wedding out of state that he didn't ask me to be his +1. it still took me some months to finally end it because to tell him what i knew i would also have to own up to my own sneakiness. whatever it is you have on him pepin i hope it doesn't compromise your own integrity like i compromised mine.